As for Spaces, I have programs that have the ability to use multiple workspaces and I still just use one. Apple's design has always been about minimalism and making less do more. Spaces and multiple Dashboard contexts are totally against this idea of minimalism.
I've tried every virtual desktop hack out there for OS X.
They all suck. Some are very powerful and configureable but all are too complicated.
They also aren't integrated tightly with the OS.
Spaces will change that.
Spaces is tight, simple and elegant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
What annoys me about these devlopments is that it's clear Apple are focusing on the gimmicks. Dashboard is not really a useful tool. What are useful are the dock and Finder and yet we hear nothing about any innovation there. What about multiple dock contexts so that people don't have docks that are the entire width of their screen with 5x5 icons or how about docks that can be ordered alphabetically? How about a tabbed Finder? Themes? A more functional Spotlight menu?
There are still 5 secret features left to be revealed.
I guarantee your concerns will be addressed.
I agree that Dashboard is useless the way it is implemented.
I like Widgets but can't use them because they are trapped in the stupid Dashboard.
Spaces isn't a gimmick and will be a true productivity booster.
Cubes suck for navigating a large space, just like flip3d does. Expose is nice because you can see all the windows at once, where as a cube you might only see 1 1/2 sides at a time. Even with transparency it's still confusing because the image is the "backside"
....I understand the logic of your approach, but Widgets eat enough system resources, taking the Dashboard layer out of it would be stupid because it provides the runtime (WebKit) for them to run in an Expose layer that's just an F12 away. This approach would also involve having them start at startup, or having me open them individually.
Instead of having Dashboard and Spaces.
You could eliminate the concept of the Dashboard and instead have F12 go to a particular Space for widgets.
The WebKit engine is part of the OS.
Widgets can run outside the Dashboard but not by default.
You can currently set applications to launch automatically when the OS starts.
Why couldn't they also have Widgets launch automatically as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis
How is it unneeded complexity? It's simple. Hit F12 and boom, Widgets, hit F12 again, Boom, they're gone. Pages? I'd recommend a Command key +number to navigate them faster.
What if the widget you need isn't open?
1) hit F12
2) click the (+)
3) click, click,click,click to slowly scroll through dozens of widgets.
4) click on the desired widget.
5) wait for the eye candy animation
6) use the widget
7) hit F12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis
I disagree. Dashboard is very useful, but more importantly, it's also fun. Who doesn't enjoy a new quote each time you open Dashboard? Oh yeah I forgot, you don't. Not everything Apple makes needs to be a "useful tool" to make it into the OS. But how is it useful? You answered that yourself, you use it ocassionally with a Calendar Widget and a TV Guide. Of course there is also the Stocks Widget, Sticky Notes (Much better than the application as far as I'm concerned) and the weather are the 3 "useful" ones I have. Well there is a 4th, a countdown until Bush leaves Office
Photo booth isn't useful but it is fun and SIMPLE.
Dashboard is not simple it is too complicated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis
But you're right, Widgets aren't all that different from applications. That's probably why they are described as single purpose mini applications, and having instant access to them via a single Key is much better than organizing it in the Finder.
Sebastian
I agree and Spaces would allow you to do that so why do we need Dashboard?
One thing I still haven't seen a good implementation of... a clean Apple-like Weather widget that can handle multiple cities in an uncluttered way. I have about 7 Apple Weather widgets open since I can't get multiple cities on one widget, and it sure would be nice to simultaneously get a weather radar view... it's just slow and annoying now. Hopefully Apple can improve on this...
I always thought that you file for a patent if you have a new and original idea that nobody may steal..
how is this new? as showed by solipsism, it is hardly new, beryl and compiz have been doing that for ages on linux already. by the looks of it, vista has flip3d and on OSX there's spaces and I have been using "Virtue Desktops" already like that for a very long time..
You could eliminate the concept of the Dashboard and instead have F12 go to a particular Space for widgets.
wow, you guys must be using dashboard differently than i do. personally i love the way it works now. have a rpn calculator widget is awesome for me because i can input numbers that i see in various apps. also, the transmit widget is great because in one step i can take files, open an ftp connection, transfer files and close the app. all of it happens automagically other than me dragging the files to the transmit widget. so i can drag the files and go about my business as it does the rest.
dashboard as it exists is extremely useful to me. i thinka tabbed interface would make it even better.
Increasing options is a natural evolution of software. I hardly use Dashboard and see very little personal use for multiple Dashboards but I welcome the improvement as I can see that people that rely heavily on Dashboard with it's thousands of widgets may have very cluttered Dashboard desktop.
The developers working on the critical Leopard bugs are not the same ones working on adding functionality to Leopard and it's not like this is some major advancement. Whether you choose Dashboard tabs or the cube effect, this technology is already built in Leopard, and even Tiger.
well now that i think about it... it would be cool to have one dash with all my sharktank and fishcams on it kinda zen and peaceful,then one for lava lamps and signs,one with animated strippers,and one with calenders and weather fed ex trackers. you know buisness and productivity stuff on it...
one for each taste,all on the same machine..... but somtimes i think apple is in a rush to compete with redmond when they "msoft" arent even really in the game anymore at all.
One thing I still haven't seen a good implementation of... a clean Apple-like Weather widget that can handle multiple cities in an uncluttered way. I have about 7 Apple Weather widgets open since I can't get multiple cities on one widget, and it sure would be nice to simultaneously get a weather radar view... it's just slow and annoying now. Hopefully Apple can improve on this...
This isn't a widget, but it is a Dock and/or Menu Bar option for multi-location, detailed weather conditions. There is no radar, that I can see.
Comments
As for Spaces, I have programs that have the ability to use multiple workspaces and I still just use one. Apple's design has always been about minimalism and making less do more. Spaces and multiple Dashboard contexts are totally against this idea of minimalism.
I've tried every virtual desktop hack out there for OS X.
They all suck. Some are very powerful and configureable but all are too complicated.
They also aren't integrated tightly with the OS.
Spaces will change that.
Spaces is tight, simple and elegant.
What annoys me about these devlopments is that it's clear Apple are focusing on the gimmicks. Dashboard is not really a useful tool. What are useful are the dock and Finder and yet we hear nothing about any innovation there. What about multiple dock contexts so that people don't have docks that are the entire width of their screen with 5x5 icons or how about docks that can be ordered alphabetically? How about a tabbed Finder? Themes? A more functional Spotlight menu?
There are still 5 secret features left to be revealed.
I guarantee your concerns will be addressed.
I agree that Dashboard is useless the way it is implemented.
I like Widgets but can't use them because they are trapped in the stupid Dashboard.
Spaces isn't a gimmick and will be a true productivity booster.
....I understand the logic of your approach, but Widgets eat enough system resources, taking the Dashboard layer out of it would be stupid because it provides the runtime (WebKit) for them to run in an Expose layer that's just an F12 away. This approach would also involve having them start at startup, or having me open them individually.
Instead of having Dashboard and Spaces.
You could eliminate the concept of the Dashboard and instead have F12 go to a particular Space for widgets.
The WebKit engine is part of the OS.
Widgets can run outside the Dashboard but not by default.
You can currently set applications to launch automatically when the OS starts.
Why couldn't they also have Widgets launch automatically as well
How is it unneeded complexity? It's simple. Hit F12 and boom, Widgets, hit F12 again, Boom, they're gone. Pages? I'd recommend a Command key +number to navigate them faster.
What if the widget you need isn't open?
1) hit F12
2) click the (+)
3) click, click,click,click to slowly scroll through dozens of widgets.
4) click on the desired widget.
5) wait for the eye candy animation
6) use the widget
7) hit F12
I disagree. Dashboard is very useful, but more importantly, it's also fun. Who doesn't enjoy a new quote each time you open Dashboard? Oh yeah I forgot, you don't. Not everything Apple makes needs to be a "useful tool" to make it into the OS. But how is it useful? You answered that yourself, you use it ocassionally with a Calendar Widget and a TV Guide. Of course there is also the Stocks Widget, Sticky Notes (Much better than the application as far as I'm concerned) and the weather are the 3 "useful" ones I have. Well there is a 4th, a countdown until Bush leaves Office
Photo booth isn't useful but it is fun and SIMPLE.
Dashboard is not simple it is too complicated.
But you're right, Widgets aren't all that different from applications. That's probably why they are described as single purpose mini applications, and having instant access to them via a single Key is much better than organizing it in the Finder.
Sebastian
I agree and Spaces would allow you to do that so why do we need Dashboard?
I always thought that you file for a patent if you have a new and original idea that nobody may steal..
how is this new? as showed by solipsism, it is hardly new, beryl and compiz have been doing that for ages on linux already. by the looks of it, vista has flip3d and on OSX there's spaces and I have been using "Virtue Desktops" already like that for a very long time..
patent?
now I'm confused..
I always thought that you file for a patent if you have a new and original idea that nobody may steal..
This should help.
Instead of having Dashboard and Spaces.
You could eliminate the concept of the Dashboard and instead have F12 go to a particular Space for widgets.
wow, you guys must be using dashboard differently than i do. personally i love the way it works now. have a rpn calculator widget is awesome for me because i can input numbers that i see in various apps. also, the transmit widget is great because in one step i can take files, open an ftp connection, transfer files and close the app. all of it happens automagically other than me dragging the files to the transmit widget. so i can drag the files and go about my business as it does the rest.
dashboard as it exists is extremely useful to me. i thinka tabbed interface would make it even better.
Increasing options is a natural evolution of software. I hardly use Dashboard and see very little personal use for multiple Dashboards but I welcome the improvement as I can see that people that rely heavily on Dashboard with it's thousands of widgets may have very cluttered Dashboard desktop.
The developers working on the critical Leopard bugs are not the same ones working on adding functionality to Leopard and it's not like this is some major advancement. Whether you choose Dashboard tabs or the cube effect, this technology is already built in Leopard, and even Tiger.
well now that i think about it... it would be cool to have one dash with all my sharktank and fishcams on it kinda zen and peaceful,then one for lava lamps and signs,one with animated strippers,and one with calenders and weather fed ex trackers. you know buisness and productivity stuff on it...
one for each taste,all on the same machine..... but somtimes i think apple is in a rush to compete with redmond when they "msoft" arent even really in the game anymore at all.
imho
boom!
One thing I still haven't seen a good implementation of... a clean Apple-like Weather widget that can handle multiple cities in an uncluttered way. I have about 7 Apple Weather widgets open since I can't get multiple cities on one widget, and it sure would be nice to simultaneously get a weather radar view... it's just slow and annoying now. Hopefully Apple can improve on this...
This isn't a widget, but it is a Dock and/or Menu Bar option for multi-location, detailed weather conditions. There is no radar, that I can see.