The End of Windows
There is an interesting bit of speculation over at Blackfriar's today about a possible evolution of file management in Leopard.
I have a gut feeling we are going to see something like this. A entirely new window-less way of file browsing and information organization. I see it based largely on Spotlight and Core Animation. I guess we'll finally get to see, at WWDC.
(hey, I'm a poet a didn't know it)
I have a gut feeling we are going to see something like this. A entirely new window-less way of file browsing and information organization. I see it based largely on Spotlight and Core Animation. I guess we'll finally get to see, at WWDC.
(hey, I'm a poet a didn't know it)
Comments
There is an interesting bit of speculation over at Blackfriar's today about a possible evolution of file management in Leopard.
I have a gut feeling we are going to see something like this. A entirely new window-less way of file browsing and information organization. I see it based largely on Spotlight and Core Animation. I guess we'll finally get to see, at WWDC.
(hey, I'm a poet a didn't know it)
Anything that relies on Spotlight isn't worth using.
Sebastian
He's looking for something big (and Leopard *will* offer something big) but the end of overlapping windows ain't it.
I *do* hope that Apple will offer a Full Screen Mode API for developers, offering a consistent Full Screen experience like used in iPhoto and iTunes across the board and available to all developers.
I think that the use of overlapping windows is getting less and less and most of the apps I use follow these conventions but in no way is this new nor will overlapping windows reach a point where they are unnecessary. Windowless file management won't happen.
Actually Quicksilver handles this quite well, I would actually use it except it keeps giving me error messages, even though absolutely nothing went wrong when I say... move several files into a new folder.
But I agree (sort of), windowless file management isn't happening anytime soon.
Sebastian
What about this. Imagine that by using the new Spaces feature, you could flip from a traditional desktop into some new metaphor. What that is I don't know of course
Not happening either.
Sebastian
Anything that relies on Spotlight isn't worth using.
What do you mean? Why not worth using?
Not happening either.
Sebastian
And you can be so sure because???
The Blackfriars link is most interesting (there is additional postulation on the comments page) and there does seem to be a sound enough logic to it that makes it a fair possibility.
Never say never again springs to mind
I think as new input methods such as multitouch become the norm (it's going to happen eventually) we'll see new navigation methods evolve.
Not happening either.
Sebastian
You're no fun
So does this mean that if something does get announced, I can say I told you so?
Anything that relies on Spotlight isn't worth using.
Sebastian
Really, what is your problem with Spotlight? I just recently started using it and I love it. You say Quicksilver is awesome. I haven't tried it yet, but I don't really see an advantage to it over Spotlight.
I rarely if ever use Spotlight.IMO, It's something that sounds great at first but in fact just promotes poor , lazy file management structure and habits.
I already use a great file manangement system for OS X that eliminates the need for multiple windows. It's called Path Finder. I can do almost anything working exclusively within one Path Finder window with all panes and shelves open. It also promotes logical, organized file management structure (i.e. the antithesis of Spotlight) . Its truly one of the best ever Apps for OS X. If Leopard really does have any secret features, I hope it's the incorporation of Cocoatech's Path Finder.
I rarely if ever use Spotlight.IMO, It's something that sounds great at first but in fact just promotes poor , lazy file management structure and habits.
Also, this new-fangled contraption Edison's calling the "light-bulb" is dead in the water. Why, it needs wires running to every house just to work! I'll stick by my whale-oil lanterns, thank you very much.
Spotlight has the potential to be a much more robust system for file management than good old-fashioned folders, and I'll give you an example of why I say this.
Let's say that every time I make an online purchase I save the receipt as a PDF (because I do). Let's also say that I have a home business and I want to keep personal receipts separate from business receipts. I also want them grouped by date of purchase. Yeah, I could use creation date, but then the folders get really big. I also want them grouped by the kind of item being purchased.
How do I organize these receipts? Perhaps I make a folder structure that looks like this:
receipts/
--personal/
----2007/
------Jan/
--------gifts/
--------electronics/
--------clothing/
--------other/
--business/
----2007/
------Jan/
--------office_supplies/
That works great for when I want to file something away. I can easily walk the hierarchy and find the exact spot in which my file belongs. What happens when I want to examine all purchases I made between January and March of 2007 at once, though? Now I have at least 6 different folders to open. A hierarchical folder structure just isn't right for this problem. With Spotlight, this is a simple query.
Of course you can get by with hierarchical folders. We've been getting by for 30 years now. But, if Apple made a good GUI for Spotlight, this problem could disappear. It would still be up to the user to create and assign appropriate keywords, although the system could lend a hand by filling in the basics (dates, file types, content, etc).
The fact is, neither approach promotes or prevents good organization. I've seen many, many people who simply save a file to the default location and then wonder where it went at a later date. This wouldn't change if Spotlight became the dominant paradigm for file organization. For well-organized people like you and, probably to a lesser extent, me, Spotlight has the potential to be much more flexible.
IMHO.
Also, this new-fangled contraption Edison's calling the "light-bulb" is dead in the water. Why, it needs wires running to every house just to work! I'll stick by my whale-oil lanterns, thank you very much.
Spotlight has the potential to be a much more robust system for file management than good old-fashioned folders, and I'll give you an example of why I say this.
Let's say that every time I make an online purchase I save the receipt as a PDF (because I do). Let's also say that I have a home business and I want to keep personal receipts separate from business receipts. I also want them grouped by date of purchase. Yeah, I could use creation date, but then the folders get really big. I also want them grouped by the kind of item being purchased.
How do I organize these receipts? Perhaps I make a folder structure that looks like this:
receipts/
--personal/
----2007/
------Jan/
--------gifts/
--------electronics/
--------clothing/
--------other/
--business/
----2007/
------Jan/
--------office_supplies/
That works great for when I want to file something away. I can easily walk the hierarchy and find the exact spot in which my file belongs. What happens when I want to examine all purchases I made between January and March of 2007 at once, though? Now I have at least 6 different folders to open. A hierarchical folder structure just isn't right for this problem. With Spotlight, this is a simple query.
Of course you can get by with hierarchical folders. We've been getting by for 30 years now. But, if Apple made a good GUI for Spotlight, this problem could disappear. It would still be up to the user to create and assign appropriate keywords, although the system could lend a hand by filling in the basics (dates, file types, content, etc).
The fact is, neither approach promotes or prevents good organization. I've seen many, many people who simply save a file to the default location and then wonder where it went at a later date. This wouldn't change if Spotlight became the dominant paradigm for file organization. For well-organized people like you and, probably to a lesser extent, me, Spotlight has the potential to be much more flexible.
IMHO.
elron,
You make some very fair points on the ongoing debate over spatial vs temporal file management. If Spotlight were improved to more easily incorporate additional important meta data and , output and organize query data in a more useful structure, I'd be more interested in using it especially for the (temporal) example you cited. I'm sure you've read John Siracusa's excellent articles in Ars Technica on the ongoing spatial vs temporal "Finder' debate.
BTW, it's interesting that you use the Edison light bulb example to inject some light fun into this discussion. It's actually very appropriate. While Edison invented something truly great, he stubbornly refused for most of his life to accept alternating current AC as the best way to implement his great invention on a large scale. It was Nikola Tesla and George Westinghouse who added the great value, AC, to Edison's breakthrough.
elron,
You make some very fair points on the ongoing debate over spatial vs temporal file management. If Spotlight were improved to more easily incorporate additional important meta data and , output and organize query data in a more useful structure, I'd be more interested in using it especially for the (temporal) example you cited.
This much, I agree with. If Spotlight is ever going to replace Finder, it's going to need a better UI. As it stands, it's just a marginally better search tool.
I'm sure you've read John Siracusa's excellent articles in Ars Technica on the ongoing spatial vs temporal "Finder' debate.
I have read Siracusa's articles, and from what I recall of them, he wasn't explicitly against a metadata-based Finder. In fact, I believe he proposed that Finder become "iTunes for files", which sounds pretty sweet to me. I think a metadata-based Finder (which I've decided is a much better term for what I'm proposing than "Spotlight") does not necessarily have to forsake spatiality.
BTW, it's interesting that you use the Edison light bulb example to inject some light fun into this discussion. It's actually very appropriate. While Edison invented something truly great, he stubbornly refused for most of his life to accept alternating current AC as the best way to implement his great invention on a large scale. It was Nicolas Tesla and George Westinghouse who added the great value, AC, to Edison's breakthrough.
I hadn't even thought of that -- I just picked the first life-altering invention that popped into my head. It is rather appropriate though. Like the light bulb, Spotlight is a good technology that suffers due to its poor implementation. Hopefully there's a Tesla working somewhere in Cupertino
This much, I agree with. If Spotlight is ever going to replace Finder, it's going to need a better UI. As it stands, it's just a marginally better search tool.
I have read Siracusa's articles, and from what I recall of them, he wasn't explicitly against a metadata-based Finder. In fact, I believe he proposed that Finder become "iTunes for files", which sounds pretty sweet to me. I think a metadata-based Finder (which I've decided is a much better term for what I'm proposing than "Spotlight") does not necessarily have to forsake spatiality.
I hadn't even thought of that -- I just picked the first life-altering invention that popped into my head. It is rather appropriate though. Like the light bulb, Spotlight is a good technology that suffers due to its poor implementation. Hopefully there's a Tesla working somewhere in Cupertino
My thoughts exactly, elron. Marvin, one of our better posters, once proposed iTunes with a few tweaks (and a Cocoa re-write?) as our new Finder. This would be great and in keeping with what John "The Guru of Meta Data" Siracusa has been wanting for years.
BTW, before anyone starts yelling that Apple stole iTunes from SoundJam, this is not true. It was written originally by Jeff Robbin, now vice president of consumer applications at Apple Computer and lead software designer for iTunes, Bill Kincaid, and Dave Heller. The SoundJam/iTunes/Jeff Robbin story has been well documented.
Really, what is your problem with Spotlight? I just recently started using it and I love it. You say Quicksilver is awesome. I haven't tried it yet, but I don't really see an advantage to it over Spotlight.
1) It's slow as hell once your HDD starts filling up
2) It's poorly designed and actually made things harder to find for me
3) I could be looking at something right in the Finder and Spotlight wouldn't know where the hell it is
Don't compare Spotlight to Quicksilver though, they're not even in the same league. Spotlight is like a little Desktop Search App, Quicksilver is an Application Launcher. The difference?
Triggers (Anything I can do with Quicksilver I can assign a shortcut to, Anything from Opening a Specific Application to going to the Next Song in iTunes)
The ability to do nearly anything I can do on my Mac (Change songs in iTunes, open a File in Quicktime, navigate Menus, etc.)
It actually finds what I'm looking for
Plug-ins for many Popular Apps like TextMate, as well as Plug-ins for Address Book and Mail as well
Hell, the thing is so powerful that several months after initially downloading it I still haven't found out all there is to it.
Sebastian
1) It's slow as hell once your HDD starts filling up
2) It's poorly designed and actually made things harder to find for me
3) I could be looking at something right in the Finder and Spotlight wouldn't know where the hell it is
Slow ? What are you talking about ? ...
Spotlight finds everything I throw at it in a few seconds, and I have an almost full 250 Gig HD on a relatively old dual G5. It's very fast.
That said, it's not perfect and it would be nice if it could search Mail.app and the like.