Resistance: Fall of Microsoft
Resistance: Fall of Microsoft
Let?s be clear about what is really at stake in this ?console war? between Sony and Microsoft. People don?t realize that they do not own their Xbox 360 any more than they own the set top box from their cable company. They rent it.
You have an internet connection on Microsoft?s console, but the only place you can go is Xbox live. The hard drive installed in the Xbox 360 has a proprietary connection to the rest of the system, so it cannot be accessed without using computer code owned by Microsoft. Microsoft has total control over what you see and what you download, as well as what games you can purchase.
Microsoft released the first Xbox after the PS2, then rolled out the Xbox 360 before the Playstation 3. There are still high quality games being made for the PS2 like God of War II and Final Fantasy XII, while the Xbox is basically a dead system. Microsoft ripped off their own customers who bought their original console, then dissed Xbox 360 buyers by selling them a poorly designed system.
To make the Xbox 360 so powerful, Microsoft designed a triple core PowerPC chip and a massive graphics processor for their console. These chips require a lot of power and generate immense heat, so much heat that the Xbox 360 sounds like a hair dryer because of the fans inside the case. When the first Xbox 360s came out, many of them overheated and crashed.
There were reports of failure rates as high as 20% on the first consoles, although Microsoft insists the rate was no more than 5%. This despite the fact that a Google search containing the words ?xbox red ring? reveals a cottage industry of websites catering to customers whose consoles have failed. One man in Chicago had the temerity to sue the Software Giant, that case was settled out of court, allegedly for an undisclosed sum?
All the photos of the Xbox 360 that you see in advertisements do not include the huge power brick that steps up voltage from a wall socket to the console. Of course, they could have avoided the problem of overheating and requiring an external power brick by simply making the case bigger. This would haves allowed for more air around the circuitry and provided room for an internal power supply.
Notice how the case of the Xbox 360 slopes inward allowing as little space as possible between the hardware and the case. This makes it nearly impossible to install a "mod chip" in the Xbox 360, but it also makes the console nearly impossible to cool properly. Again, people don't own their Xbox 360s, they rent them, and no modifications to the console will be tolerated.
On October 31st, 2006, Microsoft installed a "Fall Update" through Xbox Live that contained faulty code that disabled an unknown number of Xbox 360s. Thousands of consoles were ?bricked? by the Fall update, and internet rumor has it that this was a deliberate tactic to disable modified consoles. Microsoft is again being sued by an Xbox 360 owner whose machine was disabled, that case is still pending.
All the bad press about Sony's launch of the PS3 is nothing in comparison to Microsoft's sleazy tactics. Microsoft ripped off their own customers when the withdrew support for the original Xbox. Then they marketed and sold the over-powered, poorly ventilated Xbox 360 without proper testing, just to ensure that they got the drop on Sony.
Now contrast Microsoft?s console launch with the debut of the Playstation 3. The biggest initial complaint against the PS3 was its unprecedented cost, $600 for the premium model. Of course press reports seldom mention that the console costs Sony over $800 to manufacture. That's because the CELL processor is expensive and the Blu-Ray disc drive is even more expensive.
There was an initial shortages of PS3s because the blue diode that powers the blue laser in the disc player is very sophisticated and hard to produce. Sony invested in more manufacturing capacity and airlifted PS3s to market in order to meet demand, and those shortages were soon overcome. Sony could do this because they actually make their own product.
Anyone who takes an unbiased look at the PS3 must admit that the console is an excellent machine. There were reports that Sony was using low quality components to reduce costs. But repeated analyses of disassembled PS3s have shown that the design and parts, including the Blu-Ray disc player, are of very high quality.
The Playstation 3 has more computing and graphics power than the Xbox 360, but customers who buy the PS3 are getting much more than a superior game console. A Wi-Fi internet connection is included on the deluxe version, and all models have a standard hard drive. This means that customers who buy a PS3 actually own their consoles.
In addition to accessing the internet and downloading files in any format, the PS3 even allows customers to choose their operating system. Linux is an open source OS with a growing fan base and increasing developer support. Several versions of Linux are now available on the PS3, some of which are free.
Sony is a world class electronics manufacturing company. They have given us the Walkman, the floppy disc, the CD and DVD, as well as the PlayStation game consoles. And to get where they are Sony had to compete against world class Corporations like Sega, Nintendo, and Toshiba.
Microsoft is a bunch of evil nerds who lucked into owning the instruction set for the PC, then hired a bunch of lawyers to enforce that monopoly. Microsoft is worth more than Ford Motor Company, Boeing, or Sony. And they?ve done this without manufacturing anything, or competing fairly against any other company.
Apple Computer created the Graphical User Interface for the Mac, yet it took Microsoft years just to copy Apple's innovation and deliver Windows with a GUI. Then came the web browser wars. And remember, Microsoft didn?t create a web browser until Netscape's Navigator was already installed on millions of computers.
Now its the console wars, and once again, Microsoft did not invent the game console.
Microsoft owns Windows and the new Vista Operating System, proprietary code that runs 90% of the world's Personal Computers. They own Direct X, the API that controls graphics on those PCs. Direct X is also the exclusive graphics software for the Xbox 360.
That means all PC games coded in Direct X can easily be ported to the Xbox 360, but not other platforms. In PC gaming, there was an open graphics standard called Open GL, that was championed by Apple, and numerous other Non Microsoft computer companies. Every time Microsoft updated Windows or Direct X, they attempted to stifle Open GL.
The Open GL standard is now represented by the Khronos Group, of which Sony is a member. Software written in Open GL will run on all platforms, whereas Direct X games only run on Windows and the Xbox 360. Since Microsoft controls the Windows monopoly, they can spend billions to subsidize the Xbox 360, and extend the Direct X API.
That's really what this console war is all about. If Sony's PlayStation 3 wins, or at least remains a viable competitor to the Xbox 360, then open standards and open systems will gain market share. If Microsoft wins, they will extend their computing monopoly to the console industry.
A. Scott Piraino
http://thepopulist.libsyn.com
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Let?s be clear about what is really at stake in this ?console war? between Sony and Microsoft. People don?t realize that they do not own their Xbox 360 any more than they own the set top box from their cable company. They rent it.
You have an internet connection on Microsoft?s console, but the only place you can go is Xbox live. The hard drive installed in the Xbox 360 has a proprietary connection to the rest of the system, so it cannot be accessed without using computer code owned by Microsoft. Microsoft has total control over what you see and what you download, as well as what games you can purchase.
Microsoft released the first Xbox after the PS2, then rolled out the Xbox 360 before the Playstation 3. There are still high quality games being made for the PS2 like God of War II and Final Fantasy XII, while the Xbox is basically a dead system. Microsoft ripped off their own customers who bought their original console, then dissed Xbox 360 buyers by selling them a poorly designed system.
To make the Xbox 360 so powerful, Microsoft designed a triple core PowerPC chip and a massive graphics processor for their console. These chips require a lot of power and generate immense heat, so much heat that the Xbox 360 sounds like a hair dryer because of the fans inside the case. When the first Xbox 360s came out, many of them overheated and crashed.
There were reports of failure rates as high as 20% on the first consoles, although Microsoft insists the rate was no more than 5%. This despite the fact that a Google search containing the words ?xbox red ring? reveals a cottage industry of websites catering to customers whose consoles have failed. One man in Chicago had the temerity to sue the Software Giant, that case was settled out of court, allegedly for an undisclosed sum?
All the photos of the Xbox 360 that you see in advertisements do not include the huge power brick that steps up voltage from a wall socket to the console. Of course, they could have avoided the problem of overheating and requiring an external power brick by simply making the case bigger. This would haves allowed for more air around the circuitry and provided room for an internal power supply.
Notice how the case of the Xbox 360 slopes inward allowing as little space as possible between the hardware and the case. This makes it nearly impossible to install a "mod chip" in the Xbox 360, but it also makes the console nearly impossible to cool properly. Again, people don't own their Xbox 360s, they rent them, and no modifications to the console will be tolerated.
On October 31st, 2006, Microsoft installed a "Fall Update" through Xbox Live that contained faulty code that disabled an unknown number of Xbox 360s. Thousands of consoles were ?bricked? by the Fall update, and internet rumor has it that this was a deliberate tactic to disable modified consoles. Microsoft is again being sued by an Xbox 360 owner whose machine was disabled, that case is still pending.
All the bad press about Sony's launch of the PS3 is nothing in comparison to Microsoft's sleazy tactics. Microsoft ripped off their own customers when the withdrew support for the original Xbox. Then they marketed and sold the over-powered, poorly ventilated Xbox 360 without proper testing, just to ensure that they got the drop on Sony.
Now contrast Microsoft?s console launch with the debut of the Playstation 3. The biggest initial complaint against the PS3 was its unprecedented cost, $600 for the premium model. Of course press reports seldom mention that the console costs Sony over $800 to manufacture. That's because the CELL processor is expensive and the Blu-Ray disc drive is even more expensive.
There was an initial shortages of PS3s because the blue diode that powers the blue laser in the disc player is very sophisticated and hard to produce. Sony invested in more manufacturing capacity and airlifted PS3s to market in order to meet demand, and those shortages were soon overcome. Sony could do this because they actually make their own product.
Anyone who takes an unbiased look at the PS3 must admit that the console is an excellent machine. There were reports that Sony was using low quality components to reduce costs. But repeated analyses of disassembled PS3s have shown that the design and parts, including the Blu-Ray disc player, are of very high quality.
The Playstation 3 has more computing and graphics power than the Xbox 360, but customers who buy the PS3 are getting much more than a superior game console. A Wi-Fi internet connection is included on the deluxe version, and all models have a standard hard drive. This means that customers who buy a PS3 actually own their consoles.
In addition to accessing the internet and downloading files in any format, the PS3 even allows customers to choose their operating system. Linux is an open source OS with a growing fan base and increasing developer support. Several versions of Linux are now available on the PS3, some of which are free.
Sony is a world class electronics manufacturing company. They have given us the Walkman, the floppy disc, the CD and DVD, as well as the PlayStation game consoles. And to get where they are Sony had to compete against world class Corporations like Sega, Nintendo, and Toshiba.
Microsoft is a bunch of evil nerds who lucked into owning the instruction set for the PC, then hired a bunch of lawyers to enforce that monopoly. Microsoft is worth more than Ford Motor Company, Boeing, or Sony. And they?ve done this without manufacturing anything, or competing fairly against any other company.
Apple Computer created the Graphical User Interface for the Mac, yet it took Microsoft years just to copy Apple's innovation and deliver Windows with a GUI. Then came the web browser wars. And remember, Microsoft didn?t create a web browser until Netscape's Navigator was already installed on millions of computers.
Now its the console wars, and once again, Microsoft did not invent the game console.
Microsoft owns Windows and the new Vista Operating System, proprietary code that runs 90% of the world's Personal Computers. They own Direct X, the API that controls graphics on those PCs. Direct X is also the exclusive graphics software for the Xbox 360.
That means all PC games coded in Direct X can easily be ported to the Xbox 360, but not other platforms. In PC gaming, there was an open graphics standard called Open GL, that was championed by Apple, and numerous other Non Microsoft computer companies. Every time Microsoft updated Windows or Direct X, they attempted to stifle Open GL.
The Open GL standard is now represented by the Khronos Group, of which Sony is a member. Software written in Open GL will run on all platforms, whereas Direct X games only run on Windows and the Xbox 360. Since Microsoft controls the Windows monopoly, they can spend billions to subsidize the Xbox 360, and extend the Direct X API.
That's really what this console war is all about. If Sony's PlayStation 3 wins, or at least remains a viable competitor to the Xbox 360, then open standards and open systems will gain market share. If Microsoft wins, they will extend their computing monopoly to the console industry.
A. Scott Piraino
http://thepopulist.libsyn.com
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Comments
Resistance: Fall of Microsoft
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Ok.
I won't buy the Xbox.
Notice how the case of the Xbox 360 slopes inward allowing as little space as possible between the hardware and the case. This makes it nearly impossible to install a "mod chip" in the Xbox 360, but it also makes the console nearly impossible to cool properly. Again, people don't own their Xbox 360s, they rent them, and no modifications to the console will be tolerated.
I actually think it's about design. Given Microsoft's other efforts, I'd say the 360 is probably their best achievement.
Then they marketed and sold the over-powered, poorly ventilated Xbox 360 without proper testing, just to ensure that they got the drop on Sony.
That's how business works. Microsoft got their machine out over a year before the PS3 and it's currently about 60% of the price of a PS3 with better exclusive games. If it hadn't been for the resounding success of the PS2, Sony would be long gone.
Anyone who takes an unbiased look at the PS3 must admit that the console is an excellent machine.
Sure but so is a Bugatti Veron. It's out of my price range though and that's what matters to me.
A Wi-Fi internet connection is included on the deluxe version, and all models have a standard hard drive. This means that customers who buy a PS3 actually own their consoles.
By that reckoning, not being able to replace a Mac motherboard with a standard one means I don't own it?
They have given us the Walkman, the floppy disc, the CD and DVD
You sure about the CD and DVD? I thought they lost out and that this is why they are pushing Blu-Ray so hard, which btw is Sony's proprietary format. You do get a Blu-Ray drive with a PS3 but who does that benefit, you or Sony? They'll make them more money on all the Blu-Ray discs for years to come.
Microsoft is a bunch of evil nerds who lucked into owning the instruction set for the PC, then hired a bunch of lawyers to enforce that monopoly. Microsoft is worth more than Ford Motor Company, Boeing, or Sony. And they?ve done this without manufacturing anything, or competing fairly against any other company.
I agree, thieves, nerds, they don't deserve to be where they are today.
Apple Computer created the Graphical User Interface for the Mac
They still used ideas from Xerox but it's true they didn't steal them.
That means all PC games coded in Direct X can easily be ported to the Xbox 360, but not other platforms. In PC gaming, there was an open graphics standard called Open GL, that was championed by Apple, and numerous other Non Microsoft computer companies. Every time Microsoft updated Windows or Direct X, they attempted to stifle Open GL.
I think this has been one of Microsoft's biggest successes from their perspective but I think it should come under the same scrutiny as bundling Explorer with their system. I've read that games developers don't really have that much problem porting DirectX code to OpenGL these days though. I think that Microsoft's advantage is that because it's proprietary, they can change it and develop it however they like, which advances it quicker than OpenGL.
That's really what this console war is all about. If Sony's PlayStation 3 wins, or at least remains a viable competitor to the Xbox 360, then open standards and open systems will gain market share. If Microsoft wins, they will extend their computing monopoly to the console industry.
I can't say that I'm a huge fan of the PS3 though. Sony have been very arrogant saying that people will buy their console even if they make it expensive. They use experimental CPUs that have complex developer kits that end up under-performing. Recent titles that are for both consoles look better on the 360 apparently. The Blu-Ray drive as I've mentioned is not much of an advantage to the average consumer but is a mandatory purchase.
In the last lineup of consoles, I thought the PS2 was by far the best machine. Currently, I don't like any of them but I'd actually place the 360 ahead of the PS3. I don't want to see them succeed but they are offering what people want: affordable, powerful hardware with a good games selection. You will find that most consumers are not interested in ethics, which is why Microsoft are as big as they are today.
Sony should have used less riscy (see what I did there) CPUs and made a machine that was easier to develop for. It would have had a higher yield and a lower cost. The Blu-Ray drive is a tricky one because their games will come on Blu-Ray so I guess they had little choice to include it and it couldn't be BTO but it's a sneaky move and it increases price unnecessarily.
//Goes back to playing his PC and iMac.
But you glossed over the failure rate of the intitial Xbox 360s. There are rumors that near 20% of all Xbox 360s failed during the six months after launch. Of course these are rumors because M$ adamantly refuses to release the exact failure rate.
The Xbox 360 "elite" has a new 65 nm chipset, and that will finally solve the problem of overheated/overpowered consoles. It costs $479 according to the Xbox website, and the new 120 gig hard drive is sold seperately for an additional $179. This new Xbox 360 finally solves the design problems of the original console, and adds HDMI output.
Notice that the price climbs closer to that of the PS3. You are right that M$ simply cranked out the Xbox 360 to get the jump on Sony, as I said in my essay. But to release such a flawed product, and ignore the failure rate just to win market share is just more of that companies sleaze.
As for your comments on the Cell processor, yes it is clear the chip is difficult to program for. It is also clear that for its die size, the Cell offers extraordinary computing power. I sometimes wonder whether a G5 would have been a better choice for the PS3.
However the Cell is a new architecture, and after it gets traction in the market, we may have another choice for computers and electronic devices.
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Surface.
XNA.
No...MS isn't failing...and neither is the 360. The expectation is that MS will take a thrid of the market share and thats a huge gain for MS this console generation.
And Sony is no paragon of Open Standards...and it didn't invent the game console either.
OpenGL custom extensions could make OpenGL as platform locked as D3D. SGI had the opportunity to make OpenGL more game dev friendly and didn't which opened the door for D3D to inherit the crown from Glide.
Meh...MS has offered free dev tools for XNA vastly superior to what Sony has offered to indie devs.
The argument that you don't "own" your XBox is silly...especially since companies like Nullriver offers things like Connect360 to let you use OSX as your backend instead of Windows Media fro $20.
Vinea
The arguement that you dont own an Xbox 360 is based on the fact that any modifications to the console are through third party companies as you say. These modifications void the warranty, and it is alleged that updates through Xbox Live target those modded consoles and "brick" them.
The OpenGL supported by Sony is through the Khronos Group, which is commited to open standards, and would prevent any one company from creating a proprietary version of the software. In other words, if Sony was implementing proprietary OpenGL software, they could not be a member of Khronos.
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Silverlight. Surface. XNA. What the hell is that?
Silverlight: Competitor to Flash and Flex.
Surface: The Table computer that Microsoft just introduced today... or yesterday? One of those days anyways... looks uninteresting and like yet another WinCE flop.
XNA: Microsoft's development tools for PC and 360 games.
The arguement that you dont own an Xbox 360 is based on the fact that any modifications to the console are through third party companies as you say. These modifications void the warranty, and it is alleged that updates through Xbox Live target those modded consoles and "brick" them.
Microsoft can outright ban the hardware from XBL if you mod it.
Sebastian
Silverlight. Surface. XNA. What the hell is that?
New MS technologies.
The arguement that you dont own an Xbox 360 is based on the fact that any modifications to the console are through third party companies as you say. These modifications void the warranty, and it is alleged that updates through Xbox Live target those modded consoles and "brick" them.
Connect 360 runs on your mac. Sony isn't jumping up and down for you to mod their hardware either although with BR burners so expensive at the moment no one is going to pirate their games as easily.
MS offers a 360 dev kit based on .NET and XNA so you can write your own games.
Given that some folks with new, unmodded XBoxes had issues I'd say that MS deliberately bricking 360s is tinfoil hat material.
The OpenGL supported by Sony is through the Khronos Group, which is commited to open standards, and would prevent any one company from creating a proprietary version of the software. In other words, if Sony was implementing proprietary OpenGL software, they could not be a member of Khronos.
Sony's PSGL implementation is based on OpenGL-ES (which is different from desktop OpenGL) and has proprietary extensions to support nVidiea Cg shader language...which is different from OpenGL-ES 2.0 which supports pixel shaders through GLSL...which came too late to be supported on the PS3 for launch. The proprietary PSGL 1.x implementation is OpenGL ES 1.0 + some ES 1.1 extensions + Cg shader stuff + other proprietary extensions.
This is fairly commonly known.
Not that it REALLY matters. Most folks will use a middleware API anyway like libGCM, PSSG or their own cross platform corporate library (if you're a major player like EA, Ubisoft, etc) but it sure isn't the open standards utopia you proclaim since it's the way OpenGL was extended that drove a good number of folks to D3D.
The process to extend OpenGL was to have proprietary extensions like APPLE_xxx or NV_xxx, which may eventurally get promoted to ARB_xxx stable (which is optional in the spec) to finally core where everyone has to implement it...which historically has trailed D3D by a good margin. Things would sit in <vendor>_xxx too long before it became ARB_xxx and too long before it became core which meant D3D was more stable AND more up to date.
Khronos is kinda new. Lets see if they get 3.x out the door on time in a usable form.
If you're an indie developing on YellowDog you can forget 3d hardware acceleration until Sony unlocks that. Haven't kept up much with that...been looking at XNA instead.
And Sony (or anyone) can be a member of Khronos if they pony up the fee. Just because they have a OpenGL-ES 1.0 compliant implementation didn't also mean they didn't extend it as needed for the PS3. Apple is on Khronos as well and has a OpenGL 1.4 (desktop) implementation with a set of Apple extensions (anything GL_APPLE_xxx). But no OpenGL 2.x support that I recall (not up to speed on OSX really).
OpenGL on Vista offers full h/w acceleration when it sees a driver from a hardware vendor and Vista doesn't bench much slower (0-10%) than XP which is pretty impressive given that WDDM is a big change from the older XP way of doing things (and doesn't have years of optimization that XP does). Developing in OpenGL on Vista isn't (performance wise) crippling vs D3D...as long as your card maker is pushing out decent drivers.
All you have is rumors, innuendo and false information.
Vinea
Microsoft's wicked attempts to crush GL don't seem to be working. If they did succeed, no 3D application (Maya XSI etc) would work on the Windows platform.
Microsoft continue to provide excellent and free middleware in the form of XNA. Sony provide only the barest hardware manuals. They are, as always, the size of telephone books, and written in pidgeon English.
Microsoft did rush the 360 to market with engineering faults which led to many thousands of unit failures -which they corrected later with an extensive repair programme.
Sony also rushed the PS3 to market, with an underpowered GPU.
Right now the business model for 3rd party console devlopers for either platform is deeply unsatisfactory. Publishing a profitable title for the 360 is hard and for the PS3 it's virtually impossible.
C.
All I have to say is: making car analogies to electronics products is annoying and silly. A PS3 costs less than a year of car insurance, much less the car itself.
The analogy was simply that both are out of my price range so I won't be buying either.
Sony's choice to include a Blu-ray disk drive is what keeps the cost high, but it looks to prove to be a worthy gamble. In two years, we will be laughing at how MS just lost 200 billion dollars on the XBox 360, just as they did on the original XBox.
I don't see it but as always, time will tell.
I didnt know about these M$ initiatives, but it doesnt matter for the essay. As you said "M$ offers XNA and .NET middleware so anyone can write games for the Xbox 360". Yeah, anyone can right games for the Xbox 360 with M$ proprietary code. That's my point, Open GL is much more open and less proprietary.
As for modding the Xbox 360, of course this is "legal", but M$ comes down hard on modders. Beyond that, the question of whether you own or rent the console comes down to your choices with the machine. Again, think about the set top box from your cable company.
Do you own that box? Of course you dont, and it's not just because you pay a monthly fee to your cable company, but because you cannot use that box to access anything but what your Cable company provides. It's a proprietary box, that pipes programming to your TV, and that's it.
Now compare the Xbox 360 to the PS3. You get a web browser and linux with the PS3. That means you can go anywhere on the internet, and soon you will be able to order Netflix and other Hi-Def video services directly to the console. With the Xbox, you can only connect to Xbox Live. You get what M$ offers, and they will get a cut of all payments.
The PS3 allows users to access their hard drive and save files directly from the internet. The Xbox 360 has a proprietary connection from the hard drive, so you cannot just save a file from any source to your Xbox 360 hard drive. In other words you don't control your console, you cant choose what content you access and store, and therefore you rent that console.
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Vinea:
I didnt know about these M$ initiatives, but it doesnt matter for the essay. As you said "M$ offers XNA and .NET middleware so anyone can write games for the Xbox 360". Yeah, anyone can right games for the Xbox 360 with M$ proprietary code. That's my point, Open GL is much more open and less proprietary.
So what if the dev tools you use are proprietary? Do you really think Sony's tool chain are opensource? Yes you can develop as an indie for YelloBox if you don't want 3D support. As far as OpenGL I just got finished showing you the PSGL is proprietary and non-standard.
As for modding the Xbox 360, of course this is "legal", but M$ comes down hard on modders.
They ban modified XBoxes from Live!. Well no kidding. Do you want to play online games with cheaters? Because a while not all modders are cheaters there's a dang good number of them that are and the mods are used to permit hacked games that give unfair advantage. Sometimes unbeatable unfair advantage. This was the biggest problem with BNet.
Beyond that, the question of whether you own or rent the console comes down to your choices with the machine. Again, think about the set top box from your cable company.
Do you own that box? Of course you dont, and it's not just because you pay a monthly fee to your cable company, but because you cannot use that box to access anything but what your Cable company provides. It's a proprietary box, that pipes programming to your TV, and that's it.
Gee, how flipping odd that the STB from Dish has an antenna in that I can get local programming seperate from their offerings. So did my older Comcast STB.
So much for that analogy.
Now compare the Xbox 360 to the PS3. You get a web browser and linux with the PS3. That means you can go anywhere on the internet, and soon you will be able to order Netflix and other Hi-Def video services directly to the console. With the Xbox, you can only connect to Xbox Live. You get what M$ offers, and they will get a cut of all payments.
Not NetFlix for a while. They just bailed. But yes, the PS3 has a web browser and Linux. But you can download files from iTunes to your XBox as well (for $20 without hacking your box). I dunno...do you believe that you don't own an AppleTV either because you can't have linux or a web browser out of the box?
I think that's a pretty dumb criteria. I can't web browse or run linux on my toaster either but I sure as heck own it.
The PS3 allows users to access their hard drive and save files directly from the internet. The Xbox 360 has a proprietary connection from the hard drive, so you cannot just save a file from any source to your Xbox 360 hard drive. In other words you don't control your console, you cant choose what content you access and store, and therefore you rent that console.
BS. I can choose whater I have on iTunes to access and store via Connect 360.
And I'm tired of FSF zealots trying to redefine words to gnu meanings to the point you have to freaking reference a gnuspeak dictionary to know what they heck they are trying to say.
If you say that the 360 is less flexible than that PS3 on what you can run and I would agree.
If you say that because MS perfers a closed console environment to keep cheaters and pirates at bay that you only "rent" the 360 I'm going to ask that you stop being a gnu/sheepl (because the sheepl part is only a portion of the complete system and we should make sure that we correctly attribute the FSF as the primary contributor...after all we could simply replace you with Hurd and still have a functioning Gnu system) and trying to redefine the english language.
Vinea
So what if the dev tools you use are proprietary? Do you really think Sony's tool chain are opensource? Yes you can develop as an indie for YelloBox if you don't want 3D support. As far as OpenGL I just got finished showing you the PSGL is proprietary and non-standard.
Wrong Vinea. Open GL for the PS3 is non-standard, obviously because the cell processor is "non-standard", but who owns the code or API the programmers use to write to the PS3? M$ owns XNA, .NET, and Silverlight. You have just said that someone can develop for "YelloBox", which I assume means Yellow Dog Linux on PS3.
They ban modified XBoxes from Live!. Well no kidding. Do you want to play online games with cheaters? Because a while not all modders are cheaters there's a dang good number of them that are and the mods are used to permit hacked games that give unfair advantage. Sometimes unbeatable unfair advantage. This was the biggest problem with BNet.
Yes, they ban modded Xboxs from Live, so if you mod your Xbox 360, you cant Access video streams, itunes or any other services you yourself have mentioned.
Gee, how flipping odd that the STB from Dish has an antenna in that I can get local programming seperate from their offerings. So did my older Comcast STB.
So much for that analogy.
Cable and Satellite providers are required by law to include local channels, and that has nothing to do with my analogy. You are still receiving only what is sent by the cable or satellite provider. You cannot use your cablebox or your satellite box to choose a channel, video stream, or movie provider of your choice.
It's simple. I can order a hi-def video from Netflix, or another company form a PS3. I cannot use my cable box to access anything except Comcast channels.
And Yes, if AppleTV locks people into a proprietary service then you dont own it either. Your toaster comment is too stupid for rebuttal.
I can choose whater I have on iTunes to access and store via Connect 360.
And I'm tired of FSF zealots trying to redefine words to gnu meanings to the point you have to freaking reference a gnuspeak dictionary to know what they heck they are trying to say.
If you say that the 360 is less flexible than that PS3 on what you can run and I would agree.
If you say that because MS perfers a closed console environment to keep cheaters and pirates at bay that you only "rent" the 360 I'm going to ask that you stop being a gnu/sheepl
You say you can choose itunes and store via connect 360. Again, you can access your hard drive, but only through a proprietary connection. So you can choose whatever M$ allows you to choose through their proprietary service, which you pay for.
(because the sheepl part is only a portion of the complete system and we should make sure that we correctly attribute the FSF as the primary contributor...after all we could simply replace you with Hurd and still have a functioning Gnu system) and trying to redefine the english language.
What?
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Wrong Vinea. Open GL for the PS3 is non-standard, obviously because the cell processor is "non-standard", but who owns the code or API the programmers use to write to the PS3? M$ owns XNA, .NET, and Silverlight. You have just said that someone can develop for "YelloBox", which I assume means Yellow Dog Linux on PS3.
Who owns the PS3 code and API? Sony and the companies it sublicenses specific portions from, like Ageia for their physics SDK. Who the heck do you think owns it? It sure as heck isn't opensource.
Want to develop indie games for the PS3 GameOS? Sign a NDA with Sony and pay out the rear for a devkit.
Want to develop indie games for the XBox? $99 a year to join Game Creators. Download the tools and develop on your PC and XBox.
And PSGL is non-standard not because the Cell is in non-standard but because the bleeding standard (2.0 with GLSL) wasn't ready which is why a lot of folks dumped OpenGL in the first place and went to D3D because OpenGL lagged new development! Who the heck cared that OpenGL version whatever was a standard when you're stuck supporting "non-standard" nVidia and ATI extensions to get the latest features anyway?
Yes, I meant Yellow Dog. If you're going to be anal about typos there's a boatload in your posts too.
Oh and good luck developing games on Yellow Dog using OpenGL with no hardware acceleration.
Yes, they ban modded Xboxs from Live, so if you mod your Xbox 360, you cant Access video streams, itunes or any other services you yourself have mentioned.
I believe this is untrue. You should still be able to use your 360 as a MCE without Live. But what the heck, even if not...the only real reason for a 360 mod at this point is to pirate games. Wah.
Cable and Satellite providers are required by law to include local channels, and that has nothing to do with my analogy. You are still receiving only what is sent by the cable or satellite provider. You cannot use your cablebox or your satellite box to choose a channel, video stream, or movie provider of your choice.
Local channels are required for cable operators but not the antenna port. Which means any device that can send video via Ch 3/4 will get passed through these STBs to your TV. While this means typically over the air stuff its also means that if you can push out RF Coax.
A little convoluted but whatever...your analogy is still broken and wrong. You don't own your cable box because OMG...the cable company owns your cable box. Take a hammer to your STB and your cable company is going to charge you for it.
You own your 360, PS3 and AppleTV because OMG...you own them. Take a hammer to your 360 and folks will think you're an idiot but nothing else happens.
It's simple. I can order a hi-def video from Netflix, or another company form a PS3. I cannot use my cable box to access anything except Comcast channels.
You can? Amazing...given NetFlix says you need a computer running XP or Vista with IE and WMP.
And Yes, if AppleTV locks people into a proprietary service then you dont own it either.
Riiight.
You say you can choose itunes and store via connect 360. Again, you can access your hard drive, but only through a proprietary connection. So you can choose whatever M$ allows you to choose through their proprietary service, which you pay for.
I don't believe that you need Live for your 360 to act as a media center extender to connect to either your Media Center PC or (using Connect360) to your Mac. And Live Silver is FREE so you don't HAVE TO PAY FOR IT ANYWAY.
Geez, you've been wrong about almost everything you've written OTHER than OpenGL is cross platform and D3D is not. Too flipping bad that D3D dominates OpenGL since its on almost all PCs (except those running Linux or OSX) and the 360 which is the #2 platform at the moment behind the Wii.
Vinea
Want to develop indie games for the PS3 GameOS? Sign a NDA with Sony and pay out the rear for a devkit.
Vinea
It's worse than that.
Besides the cost of the devkit being astronmical - you don't ever own it. Sony reserves the right to restrict devkits to developers they chose. And will and do collect them at any time they see fit.
Do you get your money back? Nope.
Once you finish a game for a Sony platform, even if the game passes the TRC, Sony can and does withhold the right to publish the game.
Trust me Populist, there ain't nothin "open" in the Sony world. They make Microsoft look like a bunch of linux-lovin-free-software-hippies.
C.
I believe this is untrue. You should still be able to use your 360 as a MCE without Live. But what the heck, even if not...the only real reason for a 360 mod at this point is to pirate games. Wah.
What about accessing the hard drive or the internet? You cannot do either on the closed Xbox 360 system. The only internet connection you get is to Xbox Live, and the hard drive accesses the system through a prorietary connection. that means you cannot access it with standard devices.
You own your 360, PS3 and AppleTV because OMG...you own them. Take a hammer to your 360 and folks will think you're an idiot but nothing else happens.
Mod your Xbox 360 and see what happens. Look at last fall's update from Xbox Live and how many consoles got "bricked". I mentioned in my essay that they are being sued for this. Here is an excerpt from the text of the complaint:
Microsoft has been sued over an allegation that its XBox 360 Fall Update (ie: a mandatory XBox 360 download) caused a total system malfunction (turned the units into "bricks") for some users.
The claim alleges that Microsoft is refusing to pay the shipping, repair or replacement costs of affected units. Microsoft says it is paying shipping costs to fix or replace all affected units. The claim alleges breach of contract, negligence and violation of Washington's Consumer Protection Act. It seeks $5 million in damages - presumably for the a yet-to-be-certified class and not just for the particular aggrieved plaintiff Kevin Ray.
Of particular interest the claim alleges that the limitations of liability, warranty and remedies clauses contained in Microsoft's Terms of Use (TOU) are unenforceable due to unconscionability in that:
* XBox owners were never shown to the Class/Plaintiff: This isn't likely. I specifically recall being presented with Microsoft's TOU when I signed up for Xbox Live.
* the limitations and disclaimers were not specifically shown to each member of the Class - Case after case have upheld click wrap agreements of this kind. Unless there is something specific under Washington consumer protection law on this point, I'd be enormously surprised if this is relevant to any court.
* the limited remedy under the TOU fails in its essential purpose because it deprives the Class of the substantive value of its bargain - again, such clauses are commonplace in click-wrap agreements and routinely enforced by courts.
Sources: ars technica | Seattle Post Intelligencer | GameSpot | ZDNet | Joystiq | Next Generation
Again, Microsoft deliberately introduced code into modded Xbox 360s, that rendered them useless. If that's not as effective as taking a hammer to the console, what is?
Here again is what I said:
The PS3 allows users to access their hard drive and save files directly from the internet. The Xbox 360 has a proprietary connection from the hard drive, so you cannot just save a file from any source to your Xbox 360 hard drive. In other words you don't control your console, you cant choose what content you access and store, and therefore you rent that console.
That is my own vs. rent analogy. As for the OpenGL vs Direct X and all this other stuff, I'm gathering more ammo. I'll be back.
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What about accessing the hard drive or the internet? You cannot do either on the closed Xbox 360 system. The only internet connection you get is to Xbox Live, and the hard drive accesses the system through a prorietary connection. that means you cannot access it with standard devices.
Well if we are modding then, eventually, yes modders will find a way to run linux on the 360 off of a different HDD (which you can use with 360's with a bit of modding).
[quote]
Mod your Xbox 360 and see what happens. Look at last fall's update from Xbox Live and how many consoles got "bricked". I mentioned in my essay that they are being sued for this. Here is an excerpt from the text of the complaint:...Again, Microsoft deliberately introduced code into modded Xbox 360s, that rendered them useless. If that's not as effective as taking a hammer to the console, what is? [/qoute]
Yes, if a modded 360 is on live, and dl's the update from Live, to update their modded, warranty and support voided 360, then it will stop you from using said 360. They have every right to do that, and I'm damn glad they did after the amount of cheaters on Halo 2 from modded xboxs. Now you just sound like a fanboy that will support the dirty cheaters to try and make an opposing system look bad. Furthermore he was referencing the consumer smashing their cable box with a hammer, vs the consumer smashing their xbox with a hammer. The cable box you pay for, the xbox you don't, because you OWN it.
Here again is what I said:
The PS3 allows users to access their hard drive and save files directly from the internet. The Xbox 360 has a proprietary connection from the hard drive, so you cannot just save a file from any source to your Xbox 360 hard drive. In other words you don't control your console, you cant choose what content you access and store, and therefore you rent that console.
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Yes it does do that, and that can be considered a feature of the console, could it not? I mean really these are things that consoles would never have believed to be done when they first came out. The fact that Microsoft wants their system a certain way is ok isn't it? I mean it's almost the opposite of what Apple does with OS X. Instead of files to the HDD it's and OS to a HDD. Microsoft just keeps track of what files are dled to their software, while Apple keeps track what HDD their software is setup on.
Is it not true, that I own all the data on my 360, and I own that 360? I bought the data. I bought my 360. I can take my 360 and break it apart into pieces, and take that data and delete it and I won't get a fine, will I? That's because it's mine and it's as good as me buying a table and breaking it...I own both of them.
Please, stop being such a fanboy here.
Also I knew around 10 people who had 360's at launch, including me. Not one of our 360's broke down. The 'rumours' are spread by Nintendo and Sony fanboys that don't want the 360 to do good at all. For once, I think I trust MS is closer to the actual figures than the people are.
To let you know, I love my 360. I want a Wii. When the PS3 comes down in price I want that too. I like having many different systems because I can use them all for different things. The 360 for hardcore gaming, the Wii for fun gaming, and the PS3 as my cheap 'supercomputer' which I'll be running Linux or Windows on.
What about accessing the hard drive or the internet? You cannot do either on the closed Xbox 360 system. The only internet connection you get is to Xbox Live, and the hard drive accesses the system through a prorietary connection. that means you cannot access it with standard devices.
Geez...you read but you don't comprehend. The discussion of proprietary connection with the HDD is the PHYSICAL connection that really is just sata + power. You can certainly access the HDD to save songs (from CD), movies (from XBLA), game saves, etc. And you can add a USB drive anyway.
They've restricted internet because, well, its MS. Likely they wanted to avoid viruses bricking folks' XBox. Its a console not a general purpose computer. They have the option of controlling the user experience as much as Apple does with the AppleTV.
In any case, there are computer side programs that gives you inernet access without modding your XBox by implementing the protocols the 360 uses to communicate (ie XBConnect and Connect 360)...which work because your XBox internet connection also can connect you to your Mac and Media Center PC so your XBox Live only assertion is wrong. You can also web surf from your XBox but that's really just a hack via your Media Center PC so I wouldn't really count that.
And BOTH the PS3 and XBox are CLOSED systems.
Mod your Xbox 360 and see what happens. Look at last fall's update from Xbox Live and how many consoles got "bricked". I mentioned in my essay that they are being sued for this. Here is an excerpt from the text of the complaint:
1) Its against your agreement on XBLA to mod your XBox anyway. The only thing they've done is ban you from XBLA to keep people from cheating.
2) The ONLY reason today to mod your XBox is to pirate. Cry me a river.
3) There were some unsubstantiated rumors that they also bricked a few unmodded XBoxes which means it was simple a bad build that interacted badly with some firmware. This is MS we're talking about here.
Microsoft has been sued over an allegation that its XBox 360 Fall Update (ie: a mandatory XBox 360 download) caused a total system malfunction (turned the units into "bricks") for some users.
The claim alleges that Microsoft is refusing to pay the shipping, repair or replacement costs of affected units. Microsoft says it is paying shipping costs to fix or replace all affected units. The claim alleges breach of contract, negligence and violation of Washington's Consumer Protection Act. It seeks $5 million in damages - presumably for the a yet-to-be-certified class and not just for the particular aggrieved plaintiff Kevin Ray.
Yeah...and if every lawsuit meant guilt then Apple would be in big trouble and Linux would be dead. And even according to your sources MS is fixing bricked units...presumably only those still under warranty but hey...open your XBox to do a mod chip and guess what? No warranty.
MS has also gone out of its way to address the issue by retroactively extending the warranty from 90 days to one year.
Again, Microsoft deliberately introduced code into modded Xbox 360s, that rendered them useless. If that's not as effective as taking a hammer to the console, what is?
BS. Microsoft is not responsible if you mod your XBox with some weird code that bricks your XBox because a normal update with enhancements comes along.
Here again is what I said:
The PS3 allows users to access their hard drive and save files directly from the internet. The Xbox 360 has a proprietary connection from the hard drive, so you cannot just save a file from any source to your Xbox 360 hard drive. In other words you don't control your console, you cant choose what content you access and store, and therefore you rent that console.
Well let me spell it out for you again. You're wrong AGAIN and the whole assertion that you don't own your XBox is stupid.
That is my own vs. rent analogy. As for the OpenGL vs Direct X and all this other stuff, I'm gathering more ammo. I'll be back.
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Right, I'm not holding my breath.
Vinea
they are losing share to apple these days and open source stuff.
their monopoly no longer fools people into not seeing how inferior their products are.
MS knows if they do not have many revenue streams they will go down. the core businesses for them are no longer nearly as profitable as they once were.
the very fact that microsoft is fighting battles on so many fronts just to survive is not a good sign.
add the fact that new businesses such as xbox and zune are money pits and that is just plain not good for business.