If Apple doesn't offer a $10k coffee table, you're not getting an iPhone?
Whaaaaaaaaaa?
Exactly. As much as it would piss me off if M$ made this fly, I don't really think it's going to happen. You'd have to convince me of the market for the product. Obviously it's just a neat concept at $10,000.
I also think it has limited practical potential. Do I really need to do that with my photos? What are the practical uses of such a device. It's got a "wow" factor (sorry!), certainly....but honestly...what else does it do?
With the iPhone, we have something different. I want my photos with me and I want to be able to resize them, type on the screen, watch movies, etc. Why do I need to invest even 1/3 of $10K or...hell...1/10 of it, just so I can have a Really Fucking Awesome Coffee Table?
Give me my bluetooth Macbook and wireless peripherals, and I'm fine.
It's gong to boil down to who is at the center of your system. You may as well stay with your main platform. If your house is centered around microsoft technology your better off sticking with it.
So you WILL go with Apple since Apple introduced multi-touch as part of leopard (the iPhone, remember) 6 months AGO, only in this case there was an actually a product attached with the technology.
All that MS has done here is introduce a technology that already exists (and has lacked an application that needs it) and put is brand on it. I saw only 'neet' technology demonstrations but no product concepts, ideas, directions. Basically nothing more than the Han demos that have been floating around for 1-2 years.
I also think it has limited practical potential. Do I really need to do that with my photos? What are the practical uses of such a device. It's got a "wow" factor (sorry!), certainly....but honestly...what else does it do?
Agreed. I love the one video that has the MS guy saying "And look at what we just did... without a computer, we transferred the photos from the camera, to the phone, wirelessly..."
Um, yeah, but you had to be at the table to do it. You'd think, that if the camera and phone both have some wireless capacity, it'd be a lot more handy to have them just talk *to each other*. That, and if that coffee table isn't 'a computer', then I have a bridge to sell the guy. Jeez.
"Wow! I don't have to carry around a 0.5oz cable, I just have to lug around a 150lb table and a really long extension cord! BRILLIANT!"
So you WILL go with Apple since Apple introduced multi-touch as part of leopard (the iPhone, remember) 6 months AGO, only in this case there was an actually a product attached with the technology.
All that MS has done here is introduce a technology that already exists (and has lacked an application that needs it) and put is brand on it. I saw only 'neet' technology demonstrations but no product concepts, ideas, directions. Basically nothing more than the Han demos that have been floating around for 1-2 years.
I'll reply to all you in this one post.
I doubt this is supposed to be WYSIWYG only. I've seen a phillips version that was similar that was the same way. It only showcased one part of it's intended use. The Phillips version was almost identical except it only showcased music, but the rest is basically what you can imagine. How will you control your future home? Your network, your library, your appliances, your TV, your car, your phone would all revolve around the centerpiece. You'll be accessing your home from your car, or your phone. I'm pretty sure these features that have been demoed are some of the little things that will be part of the "other" functions of the centerpiece. It's like looking at windows 3.1. Remember the the paint application, and some other toys, but that was then and using todays computer technology, and the consumers expectations and needs there will be more than what you just see there now.
Agreed. I love the one video that has the MS guy saying "And look at what we just did... without a computer, we transferred the photos from the camera, to the phone, wirelessly..."
Um, yeah, but you had to be at the table to do it. You'd think, that if the camera and phone both have some wireless capacity, it'd be a lot more handy to have them just talk *to each other*. That, and if that coffee table isn't 'a computer', then I have a bridge to sell the guy. Jeez.
"Wow! I don't have to carry around a 0.5oz cable, I just have to lug around a 150lb table and a really long extension cord! BRILLIANT!"
It helps open up different venues for computers, namely group interaction... it's like a $10,000 Wii!
I doubt this is supposed to be WYSIWYG only. I've seen a phillips version that was similar that was the same way. It only showcased one part of it's intended use. The Phillips version was almost identical except it only showcased music, but the rest is basically what you can imagine. How will you control your future home? Your network, your library, your appliances, your TV, your car, your phone would all revolve around the centerpiece. You'll be accessing your home from your car, or your phone. I'm pretty sure these features that have been demoed are some of the little things that will be part of the "other" functions of the centerpiece. It's like looking at windows 3.1. Remember the the paint application, and some other toys, but that was then and using todays computer technology, and the consumers expectations and needs there will be more than what you just see there now.
But that is the problem with this 'announcement'. The POTENTIAL has been around for quite some time. It seems to be waiting for someone to figure it out and find the proverbial 'killer app'. MS has done NOTHING (as far as what I've seen reported) to advance this potential. Everything remains toys and speculation.
Compare this to Apples introduction of multi-touch with the iPhone. It has a use and fulfills a need. Its begun (and only begun) to move the technological ideas to practical use. Its small step but it introduces the foundation (in Leopard) and actually puts it to use. The MS announcement does none of that. They are simply putting the name on a technology to grab a few headlines, and may some profits of SOMEONE ELSE actually figures out what to do with it. If SOMEONE ELSE doesn't do that then this is yet another languishing technology. Based on current track record MS won't be that someone else, and it a shame that that's the case.
But that is the problem with this 'announcement'. The POTENTIAL has been around for quite some time. It seems to be waiting for someone to figure it out and find the proverbial 'killer app'. MS has done NOTHING (as far as what I've seen reported) to advance this potential. Everything remains toys and speculation.
Compare this to Apples introduction of multi-touch with the iPhone. It has a use and fulfills a need. Its begun (and only begun) to move the technological ideas to practical use. Its small step but it introduces the foundation (in Leopard) and actually puts it to use. The MS announcement does none of that. They are simply putting the name on a technology to grab a few headlines, and may some profits of SOMEONE ELSE actually figures out what to do with it. If SOMEONE ELSE doesn't do that then this is yet another languishing technology. Based on current track record MS won't be that someone else, and it a shame that that's the case.
Well, of course we all know that other than the Xbox, MS doesn't 'do' hardware... Surface will likely remain a licensed software product and others will supply the hardware.
Interesting that Microsoft is calling this a product release. It sure looks a lot more like a demonstration from the research labs. What is different about this video compared to the Jeff Han videos? My money says Apple is already way ahead in this area. Leopard will bring resolution-independence, a critical component in this kind of interface. Since when does Vista have resolution-independence? This looks like another desperate attempt to keep up with Apple.
First off, Bill Gates himself said this wouldn't be available at retail for 3 years! (it will be available to 'commercial partners' in 1 year)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMcLargehuge
Let's call this what it really is -
Kioskware
Correction: Vaporware.
Cool demo, but not scheduled to be shipping for three years? It may never ship. This is just a me too! demo since it hasn't actually been productized yet.
Correction: Vaporware. Cool demo, but not scheduled to be shipping for three years? It may never ship. This is just a me too! demo since it hasn't actually been productized yet.
It's pretty rare that I find myself giving MSFT credit for anything, but I do give them props for two aspects of their implementation of the established ideas:
1) The infrared approach is likely much cheaper and more durable than multitouch displays.
2) The device interaction is a new twist. I saw an early demo of this online a couple months ago, and as I recall, it was the first time I'd seen that concept.
fwiw, I do feel multi-touch interaction is a very powerful paradigm that will revolutionize some types of data mgmt. The idea in not new, and has been in the mass-media consciousness before (eg: Stephenson's Snowcrash librarian, Minority Report, etc...).
The question is: Who will implement it well? Han has some neat ideas, but my guess is that he will get lost in the industrial/military application realm. Btwn Apple and MSFT, I expect it will be no contest. MSFT certainly has the money, and is need of something to demonstrate corporate innovation.
But compare Flip3D to Expose. Flip3D feels like a cheap gimmick, where Expose elegantly provides both utility and intuitive context:
1) being 2D, thus more legible.
2) maintaining rough layout relationships.
3) reinforcing the current layering via animation.
Just one example among many. Multi-touch will evolve into our daily lives, and I expect Apple will have some nice uses for both mobile and desktop computing.
If Apple doesn't offer a $10k coffee table, you're not getting an iPhone?
Whaaaaaaaaaa?
Exactly, this thing doesn't even look like it works properly. Sure it looks fine in the demos but when Gates was actually using it, he was grabbing at things and they weren't responding. It was also jittering moving stuff, not smooth like in the demo. He's still a fat nerd too. Am I the only one who thinks he looks like a slightly more animated Stephen Hawking?
Sorry, I meant less animated. They even sound similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murk
Just some MS FUD before the new iMac is introduced.
I think this is exactly what it is. Microsoft trying to get revenge on Apple by taking the news away from the WWDC as if they somehow expect something big from Apple besides the iphone just like Apple did with the iphone taking the news off Vista.
What annoys me about this is that Microsoft marketing is clearly trying to get closer and closer to what Apple are doing and they're getting better at it. Catchy name, flashy site, cool demos. Both them and HP still haven't quite pulled it off but they're getting better.
As already said, the price and availability of this product shows there's absolutely no point even considering it. It's also a freakin' coffee table for goodness sake with a massive projector. I can see the WWDC now:
Microsoft Surface, 3 years early, now in your pocket instead of your coffee table,
introducing iphone
PS no this changes nothing, I'm still sick of the iphone and I want Mac news but I'll talk about the iphone before any Microsoft product. A touch screen iMac would destroy this 'product' entirely.
My first thought on viewing the video demos was "Maybe a MacBook / Tablet might be pretty cool after all!". Personally, I can imagine using that kind of interface for viewing and sorting photos - and showing them to others. While a prototype $10,000 coffee table might not be very persuasive, after watching those Surface demos you could be forgiven for thinking that maybe the iPhone's screen is a little small for playing around with photos. Use 2 fingers to enlarge / zoom in? How big can the pix possibly get on the iPhone's screen? Whereas, that exact same UI on something the size of a MacBook screen would be more like it.
A couple of months ago these forums were full of MultiTouch "iTablet" rumours and there seemed to be a division between those who'd love to play around with iPhone-style M-T UI on a tablet and those who aren't ready to give up using a keyboard. Of course, with a screen that flips round to cover the keyboard and only activates the M-T screen sensitivity in that position, you could have the best of both worlds.
But .... that would need Leopard and so any such hardware would have to wait until October, right?
I could see this being pretty damned cool in any kind of shared space. I could see this in a place like Starbucks, where people can meet up to exchange files, pictures, music, etc, all over a cup of coffee. I do not think this means anything for the home user, not until this is priced the same as a basic PC.
I welcome cool products and interesting uses of technology. If nothing else, the restaurant scene was pretty damned cool.
Quote:
Second, the term "multi-touch" has been around as a generic descriptor for quite a while, despite Steve Jobs making it sound like it was some kind of 'exclusive' to Apple.
Replace "multi-touch" with just about anything and this sentence works. Something exists and is sold and used by people for years; Apple makes a sexier version, Jobs gets on stage and says "revolution" a few times and suddenly Apple invented it. Apple invented everything. Everyone steals from Apple, especially Micro$oft (lol!).
Comments
If Apple doesn't offer a $10k coffee table, you're not getting an iPhone?
Whaaaaaaaaaa?
Exactly. As much as it would piss me off if M$ made this fly, I don't really think it's going to happen. You'd have to convince me of the market for the product. Obviously it's just a neat concept at $10,000.
I also think it has limited practical potential. Do I really need to do that with my photos? What are the practical uses of such a device. It's got a "wow" factor (sorry!), certainly....but honestly...what else does it do?
With the iPhone, we have something different. I want my photos with me and I want to be able to resize them, type on the screen, watch movies, etc. Why do I need to invest even 1/3 of $10K or...hell...1/10 of it, just so I can have a Really Fucking Awesome Coffee Table?
Give me my bluetooth Macbook and wireless peripherals, and I'm fine.
It's gong to boil down to who is at the center of your system. You may as well stay with your main platform. If your house is centered around microsoft technology your better off sticking with it.
So you WILL go with Apple since Apple introduced multi-touch as part of leopard (the iPhone, remember) 6 months AGO, only in this case there was an actually a product attached with the technology.
All that MS has done here is introduce a technology that already exists (and has lacked an application that needs it) and put is brand on it. I saw only 'neet' technology demonstrations but no product concepts, ideas, directions. Basically nothing more than the Han demos that have been floating around for 1-2 years.
I also think it has limited practical potential. Do I really need to do that with my photos? What are the practical uses of such a device. It's got a "wow" factor (sorry!), certainly....but honestly...what else does it do?
Agreed. I love the one video that has the MS guy saying "And look at what we just did... without a computer, we transferred the photos from the camera, to the phone, wirelessly..."
Um, yeah, but you had to be at the table to do it. You'd think, that if the camera and phone both have some wireless capacity, it'd be a lot more handy to have them just talk *to each other*. That, and if that coffee table isn't 'a computer', then I have a bridge to sell the guy. Jeez.
"Wow! I don't have to carry around a 0.5oz cable, I just have to lug around a 150lb table and a really long extension cord! BRILLIANT!"
So you WILL go with Apple since Apple introduced multi-touch as part of leopard (the iPhone, remember) 6 months AGO, only in this case there was an actually a product attached with the technology.
All that MS has done here is introduce a technology that already exists (and has lacked an application that needs it) and put is brand on it. I saw only 'neet' technology demonstrations but no product concepts, ideas, directions. Basically nothing more than the Han demos that have been floating around for 1-2 years.
I'll reply to all you in this one post.
I doubt this is supposed to be WYSIWYG only. I've seen a phillips version that was similar that was the same way. It only showcased one part of it's intended use. The Phillips version was almost identical except it only showcased music, but the rest is basically what you can imagine. How will you control your future home? Your network, your library, your appliances, your TV, your car, your phone would all revolve around the centerpiece. You'll be accessing your home from your car, or your phone. I'm pretty sure these features that have been demoed are some of the little things that will be part of the "other" functions of the centerpiece. It's like looking at windows 3.1. Remember the the paint application, and some other toys, but that was then and using todays computer technology, and the consumers expectations and needs there will be more than what you just see there now.
Agreed. I love the one video that has the MS guy saying "And look at what we just did... without a computer, we transferred the photos from the camera, to the phone, wirelessly..."
Um, yeah, but you had to be at the table to do it. You'd think, that if the camera and phone both have some wireless capacity, it'd be a lot more handy to have them just talk *to each other*. That, and if that coffee table isn't 'a computer', then I have a bridge to sell the guy. Jeez.
"Wow! I don't have to carry around a 0.5oz cable, I just have to lug around a 150lb table and a really long extension cord! BRILLIANT!"
It helps open up different venues for computers, namely group interaction... it's like a $10,000 Wii!
I'll reply to all you in this one post.
I doubt this is supposed to be WYSIWYG only. I've seen a phillips version that was similar that was the same way. It only showcased one part of it's intended use. The Phillips version was almost identical except it only showcased music, but the rest is basically what you can imagine. How will you control your future home? Your network, your library, your appliances, your TV, your car, your phone would all revolve around the centerpiece. You'll be accessing your home from your car, or your phone. I'm pretty sure these features that have been demoed are some of the little things that will be part of the "other" functions of the centerpiece. It's like looking at windows 3.1. Remember the the paint application, and some other toys, but that was then and using todays computer technology, and the consumers expectations and needs there will be more than what you just see there now.
But that is the problem with this 'announcement'. The POTENTIAL has been around for quite some time. It seems to be waiting for someone to figure it out and find the proverbial 'killer app'. MS has done NOTHING (as far as what I've seen reported) to advance this potential. Everything remains toys and speculation.
Compare this to Apples introduction of multi-touch with the iPhone. It has a use and fulfills a need. Its begun (and only begun) to move the technological ideas to practical use. Its small step but it introduces the foundation (in Leopard) and actually puts it to use. The MS announcement does none of that. They are simply putting the name on a technology to grab a few headlines, and may some profits of SOMEONE ELSE actually figures out what to do with it. If SOMEONE ELSE doesn't do that then this is yet another languishing technology. Based on current track record MS won't be that someone else, and it a shame that that's the case.
But that is the problem with this 'announcement'. The POTENTIAL has been around for quite some time. It seems to be waiting for someone to figure it out and find the proverbial 'killer app'. MS has done NOTHING (as far as what I've seen reported) to advance this potential. Everything remains toys and speculation.
Compare this to Apples introduction of multi-touch with the iPhone. It has a use and fulfills a need. Its begun (and only begun) to move the technological ideas to practical use. Its small step but it introduces the foundation (in Leopard) and actually puts it to use. The MS announcement does none of that. They are simply putting the name on a technology to grab a few headlines, and may some profits of SOMEONE ELSE actually figures out what to do with it. If SOMEONE ELSE doesn't do that then this is yet another languishing technology. Based on current track record MS won't be that someone else, and it a shame that that's the case.
Well, of course we all know that other than the Xbox, MS doesn't 'do' hardware... Surface will likely remain a licensed software product and others will supply the hardware.
In an earlier interview they said that it was running atop Vista.
Vinea
So the real reason it sits atop a table is not for the cameras and projector, but for the Cray needed to run it?
Sun StarFire from 1992
http://www.asktog.com/starfire/index.html
LOL, and Apple had one in the 80's too.
First off, Bill Gates himself said this wouldn't be available at retail for 3 years! (it will be available to 'commercial partners' in 1 year)...
Let's call this what it really is -
Kioskware
Correction: Vaporware.
Cool demo, but not scheduled to be shipping for three years? It may never ship. This is just a me too! demo since it hasn't actually been productized yet.
Correction: Vaporware. Cool demo, but not scheduled to be shipping for three years? It may never ship. This is just a me too! demo since it hasn't actually been productized yet.
It's pretty rare that I find myself giving MSFT credit for anything, but I do give them props for two aspects of their implementation of the established ideas:
1) The infrared approach is likely much cheaper and more durable than multitouch displays.
2) The device interaction is a new twist. I saw an early demo of this online a couple months ago, and as I recall, it was the first time I'd seen that concept.
fwiw, I do feel multi-touch interaction is a very powerful paradigm that will revolutionize some types of data mgmt. The idea in not new, and has been in the mass-media consciousness before (eg: Stephenson's Snowcrash librarian, Minority Report, etc...).
The question is: Who will implement it well? Han has some neat ideas, but my guess is that he will get lost in the industrial/military application realm. Btwn Apple and MSFT, I expect it will be no contest. MSFT certainly has the money, and is need of something to demonstrate corporate innovation.
But compare Flip3D to Expose. Flip3D feels like a cheap gimmick, where Expose elegantly provides both utility and intuitive context:
1) being 2D, thus more legible.
2) maintaining rough layout relationships.
3) reinforcing the current layering via animation.
Just one example among many. Multi-touch will evolve into our daily lives, and I expect Apple will have some nice uses for both mobile and desktop computing.
Let's call this what it really is -
Kioskware
(Yeah, I'm 'old school'!)
Is Kosmo Kramer working at MSFT?
If Apple doesn't offer a $10k coffee table, you're not getting an iPhone?
Whaaaaaaaaaa?
Exactly, this thing doesn't even look like it works properly. Sure it looks fine in the demos but when Gates was actually using it, he was grabbing at things and they weren't responding. It was also jittering moving stuff, not smooth like in the demo. He's still a fat nerd too. Am I the only one who thinks he looks like a slightly more animated Stephen Hawking?
Sorry, I meant less animated. They even sound similar.
Just some MS FUD before the new iMac is introduced.
I think this is exactly what it is. Microsoft trying to get revenge on Apple by taking the news away from the WWDC as if they somehow expect something big from Apple besides the iphone just like Apple did with the iphone taking the news off Vista.
What annoys me about this is that Microsoft marketing is clearly trying to get closer and closer to what Apple are doing and they're getting better at it. Catchy name, flashy site, cool demos. Both them and HP still haven't quite pulled it off but they're getting better.
As already said, the price and availability of this product shows there's absolutely no point even considering it. It's also a freakin' coffee table for goodness sake with a massive projector. I can see the WWDC now:
Microsoft Surface, 3 years early, now in your pocket instead of your coffee table,
introducing iphone
PS no this changes nothing, I'm still sick of the iphone and I want Mac news but I'll talk about the iphone before any Microsoft product. A touch screen iMac would destroy this 'product' entirely.
Microsoft Surface, 3 years early, now in your pocket instead of your coffee table, introducing iphone.
That pretty much sums it up
A couple of months ago these forums were full of MultiTouch "iTablet" rumours and there seemed to be a division between those who'd love to play around with iPhone-style M-T UI on a tablet and those who aren't ready to give up using a keyboard. Of course, with a screen that flips round to cover the keyboard and only activates the M-T screen sensitivity in that position, you could have the best of both worlds.
But .... that would need Leopard and so any such hardware would have to wait until October, right?
I welcome cool products and interesting uses of technology. If nothing else, the restaurant scene was pretty damned cool.
Second, the term "multi-touch" has been around as a generic descriptor for quite a while, despite Steve Jobs making it sound like it was some kind of 'exclusive' to Apple.
Replace "multi-touch" with just about anything and this sentence works. Something exists and is sold and used by people for years; Apple makes a sexier version, Jobs gets on stage and says "revolution" a few times and suddenly Apple invented it. Apple invented everything. Everyone steals from Apple, especially Micro$oft (lol!).