I don't think that's really the case. I haven't kept up much with the ATV YouTube scene, but Boot Camp came out within a week of the hackers getting Windows XP booted and stable. Boot Camp also included all the drivers, whereas the hackers never got working video card drivers. In addition, Boot Camp has a far cleaner and safer installation process than the hacker version did. Apple clearly could not have done all that the week after the the hacker version went live. It seems to me that getting a Mac to boot Windows was both a good and fairly obvious idea once Macs had switched to Intel, so both Apple and some hackers decided to pursue it independently. The hackers finished their solution first, but Apple took the extra time to get a superior solution in place.
Adding a BIOS to EFI compatability layer to Macs allowed Windows to boot. That was done in an April 2006 EFI update (and is now part of all new Macs) and had nothing to do with Boot Camp.
They should be selling it for $349. Would make an attractive "up-sell". But hey, what do I know. I already think $299 is too expensive, considering the Nintendo Wii only costs $249.
You really don't know how to distinguish between different market segments do you? Different device type, different uses.
I don't think that's really the case. I haven't kept up much with the ATV YouTube scene, but Boot Camp came out within a week of the hackers getting Windows XP booted and stable. Boot Camp also included all the drivers, whereas the hackers never got working video card drivers. In addition, Boot Camp has a far cleaner and safer installation process than the hacker version did. Apple clearly could not have done all that the week after the the hacker version went live. It seems to me that getting a Mac to boot Windows was both a good and fairly obvious idea once Macs had switched to Intel, so both Apple and some hackers decided to pursue it independently. The hackers finished their solution first, but Apple took the extra time to get a superior solution in place.
You have a fair point, and in your line of thinking I would then argue this: Apple was working on it independently, but I am sure that they used some of the infromation gained from the hackers who did it, just like they could have with AkwardTV this time around. Again, I think the timing is interesting and I don't think Apple could have done it alone with out its user base in order to speed up the process.
It's clear that Apple is following the old mantra "When in Rome..." The larger HDD and YouTube support are two things people have been complaining about since day one. I'm glad they are watching and listening to what their community?albeit the hackor community?wants....
Totally. In Asia anyways, where there is no iTunes Movies/TVShows, people want to use the AppleTV as an NAS(networkstorage) backup for their movie and video libraries. Particularly DVD-Rips into 4GB-per-movie 480p stuff.
Like their *entire* movie/video library. With the iPod at 30GB and 80GB, a 160GB hard disk sounds just nice. Also since iMacs are pushing 200+GB now, and more with the new models within the next few months (I predict new MacBookPros at WWDC, maybe new iMacs, but certainly both launched within the next 3 months to focus on iPhone 2nd half of 2007).
YouTube is great. In Asia, of course there is a lot more pirated and shall we say "miscellaneous" sources of videos. Convert to AppleTV/iPod format, and people "collect" a hell of a lot of video material. Plus don't forget songs too.
I of course do not condone piracy, but in Asia anyways, I think 160GB will stand out very strongly from a marketing perspective. The upsell is fine, in that it caters to a more luxury-level audience, those for example with nice 30+ inch HDTVs. Blockiness, etc. not a major issue since in most of Asia they have standard def signals. Not to mention the travesty that is VideoCDs (MPEG-1).
This would all be Asia excluding Japan, Japan is its own unique case, I suppose someone like Bergermeister may shed some light on that market.
Yeah. They are completely different and barely resemble each other in their feature sets. The Mac Mini is a desktop computer that people liked to play around with. The Apple TV is a media hub for content on your computer that people like to hack.
The Apple TV is what people said what the Mac Mini should have been. It would make very little sense to actually fuse the two.
I find myself going with Clive's take on this:
Quote:
"That would seem to be a pretty nice product."
If it had DVR capabilities, then yes... but it won't because that would compete with the iTS.
The Apple TV is still no use to me until it has a DVD player and DVR support. Until then (or never), I'll need to keep a Mac mini under my TV, but it means the main computer will have to be on to stream music since you can't sync a Mac mini.
Just having a think here - it doesn't seem so unlikely that someone could hack the Apple TV to run EyeTV? Sure, you would need to utilise the USB port, but I'm sure someone can work it out since it runs OSX. If someone could figure this out it becomes a much more viable device for people like me.
The Apple TV is still no use to me until it has a DVD player and DVR support. Until then (or never), I'll need to keep a Mac mini under my TV, but it means the main computer will have to be on to stream music since you can't sync a Mac mini.
I think you will be waiting a long time for that, From what i have read the last few weeks i am confident that what we will see from Apple will be something that could be far better, something that i am suprised that no-one else has made a serious stab at before.
The Apple TV will become the user interface of a distributed media centre and new devices will all come with 802.11n and just 'noplug and play' out of the box. So your "appleDVD" will just be a DVD drive with a wireless card, Then you will go out and buy an "Apple Blueray" that an AppleNAS with 500GB and built in wireless card etc... etc.. all these devices will sit anywhere in the house, wireless speakers in everyroom and all that jazz. Actually could turn into a very cute system, and i am 99% sure this is the future of AppleTV.
I myself have had a Mac Mini under my TV since the Intel ones were launched and it has been brilliant, this weeks news has left me wondering what to do now, i was waiting for the upgraded Mac Mini but now of course i am left in the dark. I am starting to wonder what the future of my set-up is going to be. I am even thinking of resigning the Mac Mini to become a desktop 'Play' PC and getting a PS3 to be my media centre, i just am not sure i am prepared to keep buying into the Apple dream and cut my losses now.
The Apple TV will become the user interface of a distributed media centre and new devices will all come with 802.11n and just 'noplug and play' out of the box. So your "appleDVD" will just be a DVD drive with a wireless card, Then you will go out and buy an "Apple Blueray" that an AppleNAS with 500GB and built in wireless card etc... etc.. all these devices will sit anywhere in the house, wireless speakers in everyroom and all that jazz. Actually could turn into a very cute system, and i am 99% sure this is the future of AppleTV.
If I felt confident that was the future of AppleTV, I would happily go out and buy one today (well, tomorrow since that's payday). That's really what I want from the AppleTV, for it to act as a front-end for all the various devices. Just toss a networked 300-disc DVD player in a closet and use the AppleTV to control it. Or maybe not even have the storage device have a drive, just be a storage unit/retrieval system with modules that get attached to the side. Want it to play DVDs? Just attach a DVD module to the front. HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? Another module for each (backward compatible with standard DVD).
Since Jobs called the AppleTV "the DVD of the future," any sort of networked DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray device seems highly doubtful to me. As someone else already pointed out, adding any of today's current DVD formats wouldn't be very "future"-like.
Not that a device that can only output 720p seems like the future to me either with 1080p already available. To me, the AppleTV is a step back. No discrete surround sound output (without way too much work for the end results). Video quality capped at 720p. iTunes only offering bare-bones movies with no extras whatsoever (not even subtitles). Apparently, much of the future looks like the early 90's from Apple's perspective.
AppleTV still pretty weak! No way to record off the air/cable, 720p (but no iTunes content at that res), price going up... etc. All in all an overpriced, dull piece of equipment, that tethers you to Apple's teat.
Only in the same way that a car makes for a poor boat. Apple TV isn't intended to record off the air content. There is 720p content (Podcast) and it's probably more likely that we see short form programming in HD first due to bandwidth. I find the features of Apple TV are far more targetted and sensical that the post you've given which hasn't even ascended to the lofty position of "dull".
AppleTV still pretty weak! No way to record off the air/cable, 720p (but no iTunes content at that res), price going up... etc. All in all an overpriced, dull piece of equipment, that tethers you to Apple's teat.
You need to give up on Apple TV as DVR and DVD/HD DVD/Blu Ray replacement. It is meant to be Internet video device. But yeah, Apple should've launched at least few 720p contents (maybe Pixar shorts) along with Apple TV. And there's my never ending beef against it not having multi-channel audio out-of-the-box, but I digress.
Apple TV plays back 720p 24 fps (not 25, 30, 50 or 60). It does not do 1080i or 1080p. It'll upscale to a 1080i TV, but you pretty much have to do that to be HDTV compatible anyhow (otherwise some with 1080i TVs would be wondering why it doesn't work).
I find the features of Apple TV are far more targetted and sensical that the post you've given which hasn't even ascended to the lofty position of "dull".
I can't parse this line. If it's supposed to be a jab, it's far too long to be a witty jab.
I can't parse this line. If it's supposed to be a jab, it's far too long to be a witty jab.
I guess that's what 4hrs of sleep gets me. I shouldn't really be trying to down Spiffy1 for his opinion. We all have our needs and wants and rarely does the perfect product satiate us completely.
Apple TV is such a difficult product to review because people consume video and audio in differing ways. I tend to really like DVR but I realize that Apple isn't going down this path yet and thus my ideal setup would be a DVR complemented by downloads.
I don't really buy the whole "The Apple TV is expensive" line. When compared to other devices in its class like the Netgear, Roku Labs and Slim Devices product the Apple TV is right in line. The truth is it's going to take some infrastructure changes to really make broadcast TV shine. Cable Card has all but failed to democratize things
This YouTube deal seems odd. When I first heard about this, I assumed they'd just upgrade the AppleTV's video capabilities so that it would play standard YouTube videos. But it turns out that they're re-encoding the entire YouTube video library into H.264? That's simply bizarre. What am I missing here? Is YouTube going to change over from whatever it is now (flv h.263?) to H.264?
[edit] BTW, whoever started this thread put it in the wrong forum.
I also envision the AppleTV as the center of a new kind of stereo system, one not connected with RCA jacks or optical, but a digital version using USB. The "component" play seems obvious, as it does to other writers in this thread:
1) Reminiscent of the iPod accessory industry, get 3rd parties building components that all "speak Apple TV" through USB or draft-N Wi-Fi. Apple doesn't have to BACK any of these formats, just PATENT the INTERFACE with them. Add Blu-Ray, HDDVD, Tivo, eyeTV, the cable-company DVR, whatever. Just make it so you buy this thing and every addition after that is thinner, dumber, and cheaper. The piece that ATV brings to the table is downloads, and perhaps an experience described under (4).
2) Much in the same way iPod adoption was pushed ahead by piracy and illegal file-sharing (while Apple marches behind the Banner for record labels), AppleTV adoption can be driven by associations with devices that Apple Corporate can disavow. Picture a media server device that not only holds all your legal media, but also rips and stores (illegally) DVDs. Every NetFlix customer would do major damage with this thing.
3) Having said this, Apple TV should be able to accommodate higher end components that put out more than stereo sound! Oh, and where is Airtunes? My 12" PB is the best music remote ever!
(4) TV networks go interactive. That's right, under the ATV menu there are all the networks, ABC, ESPN, HGTV, BBC, NBC, you name it. Now imagine you click on them and each one is something resembling a free iTunes store. If you want to BUY an episode of LOST, go the the iTS. But if you want to watch Lost with commercials for free, or vote for your American Idol, or see supplementary footage from PBS's Frontline, or hear about Oprah's latest orphanage, you get there through a series of clickable menus resembling a webpage or DVD menu. What network wouldn't want to capture viewers this way? And then who the HELL would subscribe to cable television?
(5) Sports addicts and people who need to see live events. There exists technology to use scattered harddrives on a network as massive multipliers of broadcast in near realtime.
(6) Or New-release junkies... In the first day of release, I'm told that apparently the number of copies of Cars that walked out the front door of Walmart represented way more bandwidth than the largest server farms can presently deliver in 24hrs. Way more. Apple should commandeer corners of the ATV hard drive as disseminated servers.
They should be selling it for $349. Would make an attractive "up-sell". But hey, what do I know. I already think $299 is too expensive, considering the Nintendo Wii only costs $249.
Apple should have dropped the price of the 40GB version to at least $279 (if not $249) and given previous buyers $20 in iTunes credit and then priced the 160GB version at no more than $349.
Apple should have dropped the price of the 40GB version to at least $279 (if not $249) and given previous buyers $20 in iTunes credit and then priced the 160GB version at no more than $349.
None of these companies offer HDD in their product. I"m willing to bet that most of them don't have internal power supplies either. Frankly I was suprised that Apple could deliver what they have for $299 and it's a bit early to expect price cuts.
The ATV is right in line with it's competitors. I expect it'll become cheaper as Apple consolidates more functionality with System on Chip designs. But right now it's not a bad deal for those that don't want to hack an Xbox to playback their media.
Comments
I don't think that's really the case. I haven't kept up much with the ATV YouTube scene, but Boot Camp came out within a week of the hackers getting Windows XP booted and stable. Boot Camp also included all the drivers, whereas the hackers never got working video card drivers. In addition, Boot Camp has a far cleaner and safer installation process than the hacker version did. Apple clearly could not have done all that the week after the the hacker version went live. It seems to me that getting a Mac to boot Windows was both a good and fairly obvious idea once Macs had switched to Intel, so both Apple and some hackers decided to pursue it independently. The hackers finished their solution first, but Apple took the extra time to get a superior solution in place.
Adding a BIOS to EFI compatability layer to Macs allowed Windows to boot. That was done in an April 2006 EFI update (and is now part of all new Macs) and had nothing to do with Boot Camp.
Steve
They should be selling it for $349. Would make an attractive "up-sell". But hey, what do I know. I already think $299 is too expensive, considering the Nintendo Wii only costs $249.
You really don't know how to distinguish between different market segments do you? Different device type, different uses.
I don't think that's really the case. I haven't kept up much with the ATV YouTube scene, but Boot Camp came out within a week of the hackers getting Windows XP booted and stable. Boot Camp also included all the drivers, whereas the hackers never got working video card drivers. In addition, Boot Camp has a far cleaner and safer installation process than the hacker version did. Apple clearly could not have done all that the week after the the hacker version went live. It seems to me that getting a Mac to boot Windows was both a good and fairly obvious idea once Macs had switched to Intel, so both Apple and some hackers decided to pursue it independently. The hackers finished their solution first, but Apple took the extra time to get a superior solution in place.
You have a fair point, and in your line of thinking I would then argue this: Apple was working on it independently, but I am sure that they used some of the infromation gained from the hackers who did it, just like they could have with AkwardTV this time around. Again, I think the timing is interesting and I don't think Apple could have done it alone with out its user base in order to speed up the process.
It's clear that Apple is following the old mantra "When in Rome..." The larger HDD and YouTube support are two things people have been complaining about since day one. I'm glad they are watching and listening to what their community?albeit the hackor community?wants....
Totally. In Asia anyways, where there is no iTunes Movies/TVShows, people want to use the AppleTV as an NAS(networkstorage) backup for their movie and video libraries. Particularly DVD-Rips into 4GB-per-movie 480p stuff.
Like their *entire* movie/video library. With the iPod at 30GB and 80GB, a 160GB hard disk sounds just nice. Also since iMacs are pushing 200+GB now, and more with the new models within the next few months (I predict new MacBookPros at WWDC, maybe new iMacs, but certainly both launched within the next 3 months to focus on iPhone 2nd half of 2007).
YouTube is great. In Asia, of course there is a lot more pirated and shall we say "miscellaneous" sources of videos. Convert to AppleTV/iPod format, and people "collect" a hell of a lot of video material. Plus don't forget songs too.
I of course do not condone piracy, but in Asia anyways, I think 160GB will stand out very strongly from a marketing perspective. The upsell is fine, in that it caters to a more luxury-level audience, those for example with nice 30+ inch HDTVs. Blockiness, etc. not a major issue since in most of Asia they have standard def signals. Not to mention the travesty that is VideoCDs (MPEG-1).
This would all be Asia excluding Japan, Japan is its own unique case, I suppose someone like Bergermeister may shed some light on that market.
Peace out.
Yeah. They are completely different and barely resemble each other in their feature sets. The Mac Mini is a desktop computer that people liked to play around with. The Apple TV is a media hub for content on your computer that people like to hack.
The Apple TV is what people said what the Mac Mini should have been. It would make very little sense to actually fuse the two.
I find myself going with Clive's take on this:
"That would seem to be a pretty nice product."
If it had DVR capabilities, then yes... but it won't because that would compete with the iTS.
So I'd rather have a Mini.
.
The Apple TV is still no use to me until it has a DVD player and DVR support. Until then (or never), I'll need to keep a Mac mini under my TV, but it means the main computer will have to be on to stream music since you can't sync a Mac mini.
I think you will be waiting a long time for that, From what i have read the last few weeks i am confident that what we will see from Apple will be something that could be far better, something that i am suprised that no-one else has made a serious stab at before.
The Apple TV will become the user interface of a distributed media centre and new devices will all come with 802.11n and just 'noplug and play' out of the box. So your "appleDVD" will just be a DVD drive with a wireless card, Then you will go out and buy an "Apple Blueray" that an AppleNAS with 500GB and built in wireless card etc... etc.. all these devices will sit anywhere in the house, wireless speakers in everyroom and all that jazz. Actually could turn into a very cute system, and i am 99% sure this is the future of AppleTV.
I myself have had a Mac Mini under my TV since the Intel ones were launched and it has been brilliant, this weeks news has left me wondering what to do now, i was waiting for the upgraded Mac Mini but now of course i am left in the dark. I am starting to wonder what the future of my set-up is going to be. I am even thinking of resigning the Mac Mini to become a desktop 'Play' PC and getting a PS3 to be my media centre, i just am not sure i am prepared to keep buying into the Apple dream and cut my losses now.
The Apple TV will become the user interface of a distributed media centre and new devices will all come with 802.11n and just 'noplug and play' out of the box. So your "appleDVD" will just be a DVD drive with a wireless card, Then you will go out and buy an "Apple Blueray" that an AppleNAS with 500GB and built in wireless card etc... etc.. all these devices will sit anywhere in the house, wireless speakers in everyroom and all that jazz. Actually could turn into a very cute system, and i am 99% sure this is the future of AppleTV.
If I felt confident that was the future of AppleTV, I would happily go out and buy one today (well, tomorrow since that's payday). That's really what I want from the AppleTV, for it to act as a front-end for all the various devices. Just toss a networked 300-disc DVD player in a closet and use the AppleTV to control it. Or maybe not even have the storage device have a drive, just be a storage unit/retrieval system with modules that get attached to the side. Want it to play DVDs? Just attach a DVD module to the front. HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? Another module for each (backward compatible with standard DVD).
Since Jobs called the AppleTV "the DVD of the future," any sort of networked DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray device seems highly doubtful to me. As someone else already pointed out, adding any of today's current DVD formats wouldn't be very "future"-like.
Not that a device that can only output 720p seems like the future to me either with 1080p already available. To me, the AppleTV is a step back. No discrete surround sound output (without way too much work for the end results). Video quality capped at 720p. iTunes only offering bare-bones movies with no extras whatsoever (not even subtitles). Apparently, much of the future looks like the early 90's from Apple's perspective.
AppleTV still pretty weak! No way to record off the air/cable, 720p (but no iTunes content at that res), price going up... etc. All in all an overpriced, dull piece of equipment, that tethers you to Apple's teat.
Only in the same way that a car makes for a poor boat. Apple TV isn't intended to record off the air content. There is 720p content (Podcast) and it's probably more likely that we see short form programming in HD first due to bandwidth. I find the features of Apple TV are far more targetted and sensical that the post you've given which hasn't even ascended to the lofty position of "dull".
AppleTV still pretty weak! No way to record off the air/cable, 720p (but no iTunes content at that res), price going up... etc. All in all an overpriced, dull piece of equipment, that tethers you to Apple's teat.
You need to give up on Apple TV as DVR and DVD/HD DVD/Blu Ray replacement. It is meant to be Internet video device. But yeah, Apple should've launched at least few 720p contents (maybe Pixar shorts) along with Apple TV. And there's my never ending beef against it not having multi-channel audio out-of-the-box, but I digress.
It does up to 1080i or 720p. No 1080p.
Apple TV plays back 720p 24 fps (not 25, 30, 50 or 60). It does not do 1080i or 1080p. It'll upscale to a 1080i TV, but you pretty much have to do that to be HDTV compatible anyhow (otherwise some with 1080i TVs would be wondering why it doesn't work).
I find the features of Apple TV are far more targetted and sensical that the post you've given which hasn't even ascended to the lofty position of "dull".
I can't parse this line. If it's supposed to be a jab, it's far too long to be a witty jab.
I can't parse this line. If it's supposed to be a jab, it's far too long to be a witty jab.
I guess that's what 4hrs of sleep gets me. I shouldn't really be trying to down Spiffy1 for his opinion. We all have our needs and wants and rarely does the perfect product satiate us completely.
Apple TV is such a difficult product to review because people consume video and audio in differing ways. I tend to really like DVR but I realize that Apple isn't going down this path yet and thus my ideal setup would be a DVR complemented by downloads.
I don't really buy the whole "The Apple TV is expensive" line. When compared to other devices in its class like the Netgear, Roku Labs and Slim Devices product the Apple TV is right in line. The truth is it's going to take some infrastructure changes to really make broadcast TV shine. Cable Card has all but failed to democratize things
[edit] BTW, whoever started this thread put it in the wrong forum.
1) Reminiscent of the iPod accessory industry, get 3rd parties building components that all "speak Apple TV" through USB or draft-N Wi-Fi. Apple doesn't have to BACK any of these formats, just PATENT the INTERFACE with them. Add Blu-Ray, HDDVD, Tivo, eyeTV, the cable-company DVR, whatever. Just make it so you buy this thing and every addition after that is thinner, dumber, and cheaper. The piece that ATV brings to the table is downloads, and perhaps an experience described under (4).
2) Much in the same way iPod adoption was pushed ahead by piracy and illegal file-sharing (while Apple marches behind the Banner for record labels), AppleTV adoption can be driven by associations with devices that Apple Corporate can disavow. Picture a media server device that not only holds all your legal media, but also rips and stores (illegally) DVDs. Every NetFlix customer would do major damage with this thing.
3) Having said this, Apple TV should be able to accommodate higher end components that put out more than stereo sound! Oh, and where is Airtunes? My 12" PB is the best music remote ever!
(4) TV networks go interactive. That's right, under the ATV menu there are all the networks, ABC, ESPN, HGTV, BBC, NBC, you name it. Now imagine you click on them and each one is something resembling a free iTunes store. If you want to BUY an episode of LOST, go the the iTS. But if you want to watch Lost with commercials for free, or vote for your American Idol, or see supplementary footage from PBS's Frontline, or hear about Oprah's latest orphanage, you get there through a series of clickable menus resembling a webpage or DVD menu. What network wouldn't want to capture viewers this way? And then who the HELL would subscribe to cable television?
(5) Sports addicts and people who need to see live events. There exists technology to use scattered harddrives on a network as massive multipliers of broadcast in near realtime.
(6) Or New-release junkies... In the first day of release, I'm told that apparently the number of copies of Cars that walked out the front door of Walmart represented way more bandwidth than the largest server farms can presently deliver in 24hrs. Way more. Apple should commandeer corners of the ATV hard drive as disseminated servers.
BB
They should be selling it for $349. Would make an attractive "up-sell". But hey, what do I know. I already think $299 is too expensive, considering the Nintendo Wii only costs $249.
Apple should have dropped the price of the 40GB version to at least $279 (if not $249) and given previous buyers $20 in iTunes credit and then priced the 160GB version at no more than $349.
Free Download
http://www.onedownload.org
Apple should have dropped the price of the 40GB version to at least $279 (if not $249) and given previous buyers $20 in iTunes credit and then priced the 160GB version at no more than $349.
Based on what?
Their competitors aren't offering much more.
Slim Devices streamer $299
Netgear EVA 8000 $349
Only the Roku M1000 is cheaper
M1000 $199
None of these companies offer HDD in their product. I"m willing to bet that most of them don't have internal power supplies either. Frankly I was suprised that Apple could deliver what they have for $299 and it's a bit early to expect price cuts.
The ATV is right in line with it's competitors. I expect it'll become cheaper as Apple consolidates more functionality with System on Chip designs. But right now it's not a bad deal for those that don't want to hack an Xbox to playback their media.