Exactly! Your iPhone will just be another Mac on the network capable of using the new "Back to my Mac" feature.
No, that's not going to happen. Just because they demoed B2M with cover flow mode on doesn't mean that's the only way to. The reasons they added cover flow to Finder are A) It's actually helpful and Windows iPhone users will feel more used to that view, and that much more likely to switch to Mac. I'm sorry, but the iPhone is not advanced enough to use relatively massive programs like Final Cut Studio, Photoshop, iMovie, or even any Office programs. The memory isn't there, nor is the RAM. Not to mention that screen size is an issue with th first three things there, and typing papers and spreadsheets on a keyboard like that multi-touch would be like death. Multi-touch is not designed for actual typing or word processing, but rather for simple quick data entry like short txt messages and quick phone book entries, and so on.
If it is used, it's only going to be limited to certain things like pictures, movies, music, and contact/calendar data. That's about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
I just don't get you guys sometimes, I really like Leopard. Remember software is a subtle game. What seem like incremental changes are bigger than you think, I'm disappointed by the ZFS situation though. I didn't love the keynote, it was boring, but I think Leopard will be a great release when all is said and done, and I hope to God Steve is planning on getting rid of Aqua, FULLY.
I agree. Leopard's shaping up and has A LOT of really new, useful features. It's just that we weren't much informed of many this time, just as much as three things. ZFS, I've heard, is supported in Leopard (and is in the developer's disk given at WWDC), but isn't default (which would be a stupid decision). The only elements of Aqua that I think should be left are the three window buttons in the corner, scroll bars, and buttons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift
I think we are probably to blame for that though. We build the hype, not Apple.
Not entirely this time. Jobs said he was going over 10 NEW features... when three were new, and the rest were already announced. That was what really got me, that basically he lied to everyone. We all thought we'd be getting a bunch of new points, but just a few came.
i totally agree with everyone saying that leopard will be a nice release. i just think that people are pissed off because Steve led us to believe he was going to make something truley amazing, something that would make everyone switch...
I'm shocked at how tacky and unsophisticated the Leopard GUI is compared to the iPhone's GUI. Really shocked. This interface is two steps back. My God, what are they thinking?
From what I've seen of the iPhone, I thought Apple would have a great opportunity to go down a really sophisticated and minimal GUI that embraces the benefits of an 'invisible HCI interface'. To my mind, the iPhone has one of the most functional and attractive interfaces ever developed.
If the Leopard GUI exhibited at the Keynote is anything to go by, what we'll end up with is another ill-conceived chop-shop interface (hell they can't even decide if they want to consistently use square menu bar buttons or those God-awful pill shaped 'Mail' menu buttons).
Right now, I'm really starting to question whether the future does lie with Apple. Microsoft's Surface division was a bit of a wake-up call, and if the Leopard GUI that was demonstrated at the Keynote is Apple's idea of progress, then I'm really worried.
The menu bar transparency makes it less dominant and moves it out of focus slightly...which is a good thing but there better be transparency controls (hacked or otherwise). Should also help prevent burn-in for non LED displays (not a huge issue but noticeable on old LCD displays).
I second that thought, yes there had better prefs that you can change if you want it more opaque. Im tired of too much stuff being transparent, Vista is a prime example of how it can be used into overkill tackiness.
For me, I don't need more eye candy (or is it iCandy?). What I need is more functionality.
I also need a case sensitive file system (to be compatible with the likes of Linux and other *nixes out there). While it's great that HFS+ case sensitive exists, it is hell trying to live with it. Adobe CS2, for instance, can't handle it (I had to install that on a disk image). Adobe CS3 absolutely refuses to deal with a properly case sensitive file system (it just won't install at all). So why can't we enter the 70's and switch everyone to a fully case sensitive file system??? That way Adobe (and others) would be forced to make their software work on a file system that has been available on the Mac for quite some time.
How about improving Boot Camp? Dual booting is so 90's. Now they've added this whizzy pseudo dual boot via sleep mode? I mean WTF? Parallels is way more on top of things with the intro of Coherence. That's progress: being able to run Windows and OSX together seamlessly. Boot Camp is based on an ancient idea. Here's a new idea: how about proper virtualization where we can run multiple instances of OSX (you know, just like you can on Windows and Linux). Noooo that would be going way too far. That would be sooooo.....five years ago. Instead, they're happy to add virtual desktop technology to the Mac finally (but now it's called something fancy: Spaces). Gee, there's a feature that's also been around for ages in Gnome and KDE and other X-server environments.
I mean who needs more eye candy when there are so many other useful things that could be implemented (like a multi-column Finder folder view that doesn't want to make you kill yourself)? Well, Apple does. Apple needs to add more eye candy for the simple fact that Apple is still a hardware company. You see, eye candy uses up the bulk of your computer's processing power at this point. And the more eye candy they stuff into your OS, the greater the need for YOU to upgrade your computer.
I'm shocked at how tacky and unsophisticated the Leopard GUI is compared to the iPhone's GUI. Really shocked. This interface is two steps back. My God, what are they thinking?
From what I've seen of the iPhone, I thought Apple would have a great opportunity to go down a really sophisticated and minimal GUI that embraces the benefits of an 'invisible HCI interface'. To my mind, the iPhone has one of the most functional and attractive interfaces ever developed.
Do you even realize that the iPhone is not a computer? There's a HUGE difference between portable GUIs and full-blown OS GUIs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah
If the Leopard GUI exhibited at the Keynote is anything to go by, what we'll end up with is another ill-conceived chop-shop interface
I don't see where you're coming from. Jobs even said a huge part of the new GUI was to unify it all instead of having it be a, how you described it, "chop-shop interface." And from what we saw, the interface is much more unified. I don't know what video/pictures you were watching...
Dude, different features, uses, and applications (not to be read as "programs") demand something different. Especially if it's on the desktop. And honestly, Jobs was being litteral in that the menu bar blends into the desktop picture. It definitely takes focus off both the dock and the menu bar, as was the intention, and with the dock's new look, it follows Apple's whole graphic design everywhere with the reflection.
Also, I think none of us have room to make a final decision on it, since we've only seen so much of the GUI. Once Leopard is released and we get to explore it freely, then we all have more right to complain if we don't like it. Remember the Beta Jobs was running and was given out is only feature complete, as well. Which leaves no guarantees on the whole GUI.
You are missing the picture with what Apple is doing with the desktop. They are providing you with an easy way to access your information (finder, quicklook, coverflow, timemachine, metadata), organize your workspace (spaces, stacks in the dock) and get things done (OS-X).
In today's web centric world, the desktop operating system is losing it's relevance as something that keeps your computer running. It is all about information management now. I think Apple is moving in the right direction and while there are some UI elements that are inconsistent, Leopard looks much better than any of the earlier OS X releases in providing a productive and satisfying user experience.
I don't think Vista is any comparison out-of-the box. Vista isn't worth the $$$ spent even going b y Apple's pricing standards.
What was somewhat a surprise for me that the keynote was too consumer oriented (or, should I say, press oriented). There was no more developer oriented talk about the underlying technologies. But that was left for the sessions I suppose
I am afraid most of the posts here, as well as the majority of the blogs around the web, make only a skin deep look on the Leopard presentation.
There is one big difference in Apple vs. Microsoft approach on the technologies provided by the OS.
Let's take Time Machine. NTFS has an edge on HFS+ because it supports snapshots on file system level. HFS+ does not. Because of this, Time Machine relies on the presence of a second/external drive. This is big disadvantage, especially for the growing number mobile users. So is it an over-hyped piece of crap? What does have Windows Vista to offer instead?
Microsoft has the underlying technology in place, but it is pretty much hidden for the user. It lacks the high-level interface and APIs to become usable by normal users and the majority of developers. It lives in the realm of system administrators (with few exceptions, like rolling back after installing a bad driver). On the other hand, Apple lacks the proper underlying low level technology yet but has a wonderful approach on using such a technology, when available (serving as an intelligent and useful backup solution in the meantime). No, it is not the fancy interface! I am talking about, think about the following:
Time Machine is available on application level. Every application can look back for old versions of it's own files and data types. Every developer who ever used a source code management system (cvs, subversion etc.) will recognize this as a very easy to use, automatic (no installation and management) versioning system for every application which chooses to support Time Machine. It is important to note that all developers can use it in their applications.
Even when used from the Finder, Time Machine can filter specific types of information. No, not specific extensions, but generic data types, like images and video. It can perform a search inside the deleted or modified files!
This may seem as an eye candy, or may not qualify as an advantage in a check-list like shootout, but this is what can make a difference between a feature that is never widely used (and most users even don't know it exists) and a feature you will not want to live without after getting used to it. Think about iPod-iTunes story.
I intentionally took a feature that in theory could work better in Windows. A lot of others (CoreAnimation, Image Kit, CoreImage, CoreData) do not have direct analog in Windows. What Apple does is to provide the Frameworks and APIs for everybody and create a golden standard application using them. The latest both shows the developers what they can do in their applications and raises the bar for customer expectations on applications and their interface.
With Apple market share rising more developers can consider writing Mac-only applications and further strengthen Mac OS X position.
Interesting opinions. Is it just the screen shots provided on Apple's Leopard preview page, or has Apple done away completely with the radius in the upper corners of the OS? This always bothered me considering that the bottom corners were never rounded.
Comments
I usually revert back to the Tiger aqua background too...
Exactly! Your iPhone will just be another Mac on the network capable of using the new "Back to my Mac" feature.
No, that's not going to happen. Just because they demoed B2M with cover flow mode on doesn't mean that's the only way to. The reasons they added cover flow to Finder are A) It's actually helpful and
If it is used, it's only going to be limited to certain things like pictures, movies, music, and contact/calendar data. That's about it.
I just don't get you guys sometimes, I really like Leopard. Remember software is a subtle game. What seem like incremental changes are bigger than you think, I'm disappointed by the ZFS situation though. I didn't love the keynote, it was boring, but I think Leopard will be a great release when all is said and done, and I hope to God Steve is planning on getting rid of Aqua, FULLY.
I agree. Leopard's shaping up and has A LOT of really new, useful features. It's just that we weren't much informed of many this time, just as much as three things. ZFS, I've heard, is supported in Leopard (and is in the developer's disk given at WWDC), but isn't default (which would be a stupid decision). The only elements of Aqua that I think should be left are the three window buttons in the corner, scroll bars, and buttons.
I think we are probably to blame for that though. We build the hype, not Apple.
Not entirely this time. Jobs said he was going over 10 NEW features... when three were new, and the rest were already announced. That was what really got me, that basically he lied to everyone. We all thought we'd be getting a bunch of new points, but just a few came.
From what I've seen of the iPhone, I thought Apple would have a great opportunity to go down a really sophisticated and minimal GUI that embraces the benefits of an 'invisible HCI interface'. To my mind, the iPhone has one of the most functional and attractive interfaces ever developed.
If the Leopard GUI exhibited at the Keynote is anything to go by, what we'll end up with is another ill-conceived chop-shop interface (hell they can't even decide if they want to consistently use square menu bar buttons or those God-awful pill shaped 'Mail' menu buttons).
Right now, I'm really starting to question whether the future does lie with Apple. Microsoft's Surface division was a bit of a wake-up call, and if the Leopard GUI that was demonstrated at the Keynote is Apple's idea of progress, then I'm really worried.
The menu bar transparency makes it less dominant and moves it out of focus slightly...which is a good thing but there better be transparency controls (hacked or otherwise). Should also help prevent burn-in for non LED displays (not a huge issue but noticeable on old LCD displays).
I second that thought, yes there had better prefs that you can change if you want it more opaque. Im tired of too much stuff being transparent, Vista is a prime example of how it can be used into overkill tackiness.
Not sure about adjusting it over a range, in the keynote Steve mentioned that it "automatically" adjusts itself depending on the underlying image.
I also need a case sensitive file system (to be compatible with the likes of Linux and other *nixes out there). While it's great that HFS+ case sensitive exists, it is hell trying to live with it. Adobe CS2, for instance, can't handle it (I had to install that on a disk image). Adobe CS3 absolutely refuses to deal with a properly case sensitive file system (it just won't install at all). So why can't we enter the 70's and switch everyone to a fully case sensitive file system??? That way Adobe (and others) would be forced to make their software work on a file system that has been available on the Mac for quite some time.
How about improving Boot Camp? Dual booting is so 90's. Now they've added this whizzy pseudo dual boot via sleep mode? I mean WTF? Parallels is way more on top of things with the intro of Coherence. That's progress: being able to run Windows and OSX together seamlessly. Boot Camp is based on an ancient idea. Here's a new idea: how about proper virtualization where we can run multiple instances of OSX (you know, just like you can on Windows and Linux). Noooo that would be going way too far. That would be sooooo.....five years ago. Instead, they're happy to add virtual desktop technology to the Mac finally (but now it's called something fancy: Spaces). Gee, there's a feature that's also been around for ages in Gnome and KDE and other X-server environments.
I mean who needs more eye candy when there are so many other useful things that could be implemented (like a multi-column Finder folder view that doesn't want to make you kill yourself)? Well, Apple does. Apple needs to add more eye candy for the simple fact that Apple is still a hardware company. You see, eye candy uses up the bulk of your computer's processing power at this point. And the more eye candy they stuff into your OS, the greater the need for YOU to upgrade your computer.
I'm shocked at how tacky and unsophisticated the Leopard GUI is compared to the iPhone's GUI. Really shocked. This interface is two steps back. My God, what are they thinking?
From what I've seen of the iPhone, I thought Apple would have a great opportunity to go down a really sophisticated and minimal GUI that embraces the benefits of an 'invisible HCI interface'. To my mind, the iPhone has one of the most functional and attractive interfaces ever developed.
Do you even realize that the iPhone is not a computer? There's a HUGE difference between portable GUIs and full-blown OS GUIs.
If the Leopard GUI exhibited at the Keynote is anything to go by, what we'll end up with is another ill-conceived chop-shop interface
I don't see where you're coming from. Jobs even said a huge part of the new GUI was to unify it all instead of having it be a, how you described it, "chop-shop interface." And from what we saw, the interface is much more unified. I don't know what video/pictures you were watching...
I use it. I've tried a few other things but I always fall back to Tiger Aqua.
He's not the ONLY one.
I'm another. really like the calm blue, can't be doing with pictures
I love the new look, how does spaces and stacks look bad?
Also, I think none of us have room to make a final decision on it, since we've only seen so much of the GUI. Once Leopard is released and we get to explore it freely, then we all have more right to complain if we don't like it. Remember the Beta Jobs was running and was given out is only feature complete, as well. Which leaves no guarantees on the whole GUI.
The only elements of Aqua that I think should be left are the three window buttons in the corner, scroll bars, and buttons.
I couldn't disagree more.
What I meant by 'should be' isn't 'If I were in charge, I'd' but rather 'it looks as if'; 'it seems like'
In today's web centric world, the desktop operating system is losing it's relevance as something that keeps your computer running. It is all about information management now. I think Apple is moving in the right direction and while there are some UI elements that are inconsistent, Leopard looks much better than any of the earlier OS X releases in providing a productive and satisfying user experience.
I don't think Vista is any comparison out-of-the box. Vista isn't worth the $$$ spent even going b y Apple's pricing standards.
the way that's quoted, it doesn't say it like it was meant.
What I meant by 'should be' isn't 'If I were in charge, I'd' but rather 'it looks as if'; 'it seems like'
I get you, so like me you probably want them all gone.
I am afraid most of the posts here, as well as the majority of the blogs around the web, make only a skin deep look on the Leopard presentation.
There is one big difference in Apple vs. Microsoft approach on the technologies provided by the OS.
Let's take Time Machine. NTFS has an edge on HFS+ because it supports snapshots on file system level. HFS+ does not. Because of this, Time Machine relies on the presence of a second/external drive. This is big disadvantage, especially for the growing number mobile users. So is it an over-hyped piece of crap? What does have Windows Vista to offer instead?
Microsoft has the underlying technology in place, but it is pretty much hidden for the user. It lacks the high-level interface and APIs to become usable by normal users and the majority of developers. It lives in the realm of system administrators (with few exceptions, like rolling back after installing a bad driver). On the other hand, Apple lacks the proper underlying low level technology yet but has a wonderful approach on using such a technology, when available (serving as an intelligent and useful backup solution in the meantime). No, it is not the fancy interface! I am talking about, think about the following:
- Time Machine is available on application level. Every application can look back for old versions of it's own files and data types. Every developer who ever used a source code management system (cvs, subversion etc.) will recognize this as a very easy to use, automatic (no installation and management) versioning system for every application which chooses to support Time Machine. It is important to note that all developers can use it in their applications.
- Even when used from the Finder, Time Machine can filter specific types of information. No, not specific extensions, but generic data types, like images and video. It can perform a search inside the deleted or modified files!
This may seem as an eye candy, or may not qualify as an advantage in a check-list like shootout, but this is what can make a difference between a feature that is never widely used (and most users even don't know it exists) and a feature you will not want to live without after getting used to it. Think about iPod-iTunes story.I intentionally took a feature that in theory could work better in Windows. A lot of others (CoreAnimation, Image Kit, CoreImage, CoreData) do not have direct analog in Windows. What Apple does is to provide the Frameworks and APIs for everybody and create a golden standard application using them. The latest both shows the developers what they can do in their applications and raises the bar for customer expectations on applications and their interface.
With Apple market share rising more developers can consider writing Mac-only applications and further strengthen Mac OS X position.