Though I hope you're wrong. (That's the optimist in me speaking... )
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
We're nowhere near having commercially viable 15" high res OLED screens
Apple's sitting on so much cash they could easily finance a manufacturing joint-venture to get their (exclusive) hands on high res OLEDs.
But as you said they're likely too conservative to do that. And I think they try to get away from manufacturing.
Quote:
And PC people will say, big deal, we've had that for a while.
Yep, sounds like the boring Apple of late...
My guess is that Steve is in the process of building the next paradigm shift in computing and Apple is currently focussing a lot of resources on it. It won't be ready for another year or two IMHO. But I'm sure it's not Mac centric. Probably not even iPhone centric. And I wouldn't be surprised if even Steve Jobs hasn't gotten the full picture yet either.
My bet would be on some 'ubiquitous pervasive computing' 'device' in whatever form. Apple being Apple they'll likely approach it step by step. iPhone being one such step, easy network connectivity another (web standards, network backups, the new Back To My Mac feature), multitouch another. Where will it end? Probably not in a multitouch tablet. Likely in a multitude of devices from desktop to mobile all running the same OS and accessing the same data making devices transparent and content the focus. As has been speculated before the move to Intel IMHO is part of that bigger plan as Intel can provide CPUs from mobile to server devices.
There have always been certain themes in Steve Jobs' life and IMHO they are still true today, providing a good glimpse at future directions.
The cube shape is one such 'theme'. A computer 'for the rest of us' another (that's why he was never really interested in the business sector.)
Whatever the next computer paradigm I'm sure Jobs' idea of it will be the 21st century version of 'a computer for the rest of us'.
Also, I know these films were a scully thing, however it projected things that were being worked on at apple (Pre ouster of Jobs) at the time and jobsianly influenced.
I think Jobs killed the Newton not because it was John Scully's baby (although I'm sure that didn't help) but mainly because Jobs has a different idea of portable computing. And as much as I miss the Newton platform I tend to agree with Jobs that you don't want to have two platforms with two different subsets of the same data. You want to run the same apps on both using the same files not spreading yourself with too many versions of the same data.
Newton tried to be different in that it didn't actually have files, everything was just one big data soup. It would have made sense to go the other way and apply Newton's data soup model on the desktop, rather than now trying to run desktop apps on mobile devices (a la iPhone).
But in the end either way is fine as the goal is to have one OS on all your devices so all can use the same data. I'm pretty sure that's where Jobs wants to go. And Apple is in the unique position to build such a system as they can build and control both the hardware and software for it.
But I'm also sure that it'll be at least a year or two until any such strategy gets fully revealed. It's quite possible that this is another reason why we only see incremental hardware updates at the moment.
I wonder if E3 July 11 ? 13, 2007, at several hotels and Barker Hangar in Santa Monica, California, will bring us any new hardware.
Perhaps the imac for games?
Jon Ive has been pretty silent these past several months. I wonder what he has been working on.
I highly doubt you'll see Apple presenting new products at E3. That is mostly for game vendors, and console makers. There have been Macs there to play games on in the past but an announcement is highly unlikely; even after Carmac, and EA made speeches at WWDC. They are developers which made sense for them to be there, but two developers does not yet make Apple a gaming platform. It's a step in the right direction for them to announce some future games, but Apple seems to be set on integrated graphics in most of their products (which sucks in everybody's opinion) and they need to get rid of it in everything but the MIni of they are to be taken seriously by anyone that wants to play an occasional game. Let alone true gamers. You shouldn't have to buy a pro machine to get a graphics option, not in this day and age. Graphics is at the core of our technology. HDTV, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD is proof of that. People want the option of great graphics. That's why you don't have to buy the 75" HDTV to get an HDTV. They come in all sizes - unlike Apples desktops and laptops. Apple just doesn't get it yet.
I highly doubt you'll see Apple presenting new products at E3. That is mostly for game vendors, and console makers. There have been Macs there to play games on in the past but an announcement is highly unlikely; even after Carmac, and EA made speeches at WWDC.
You are likely correct, but it's something to think about. What better place to announce a new Mac mini tower that is right for gaming?
They don't actually have to present at E3 they could just do a cupertino press event. Then demo the units at Id and EA booths.
Even though I don't think anything remotely close (mini based gaming tower?) will come from Apple; an announcement at E3 would probably be scoffed at more than it would be praised. Maybe by next year If Apple kept the gaming efforts as a focus, but I think E3 would drown them in laughter by gamers this year. And I'm serious. A nintendo Wii is 50 times the gaming machine a Mac is, and a PC is about the same. Let alone the 360, and PS3.
Here is a long shot, but a possibility. MWSF. The Apple tablet. Apple starts 2008 out with a new strategy. Start marketing their computers off the success of the iPhone. Take the tablet out of conceptual toy into real world practicality. That's my Vote for 2008 MWSF.
Mac Book Mini aka Apple Tablet will be single biggest thing Apple could DO RIGHT (where everyone else tried and either failed or had partial success)
Let's see... why won't they make the Apple Tablet...? Oh yeah, you said it already...
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanmugam
everyone else tried and either failed or had partial success
And why did everyone fail? Because it's such a niche market, and a new concept/feeling/etc. to most people. People will tend to stick with what they are comfortable with, and switching to the tablet is one of those things where you have to be willing to take a plunge. There aren't many out there who would be willing. Additionally, the technology and software isn't affordable or developed and available. And it won't be for at least 3-4 years. I'm sorry, but it's just not feasible.
Exactly what everyone said about MP3 Players. Look at the market now, and who ownz it? Apple. This is exactly what they have the chance to do here.
MP3 players never were a niche in the sense that tablets are - the issue then was memory/size ratio, cost, and that's about it. If those were never an issue, there would have been no problem at all with selling MP3 players - it's not a need/use issue.
Tablets, on the other hand, are not something most people are looking for; it doesn't suit their needs. I can see it for people like reporters, medical offices, and maybe even legal practices, where an interactive clipboard kind of thing would be useful; otherwise, looking down at a screen and whatnot just isn't what people need. What video or image editor would want to be looking down all day? It's as bad as looking at the ceiling for hours, your neck would start to kill. Additionally, who would want to type a report or a spreadsheet out on something with no feedback from a feeling aspect, along with the same looking sharply down issue. It's not what any large masses need. Only certain applications. Not enough for Apple to bother spending millions of dollars to develop.
MP3 players never were a niche in the sense that tablets are ..................
I'm not going to argue this all day back and forth, but your vision is obviously limited. The MP3 player was a Niche product that had limited use. It still is limited to being just a $350 music player for the most part. So are existing tablets, but the tablet computer is every bit as useful as a laptop + a note-taking device and then some, and in my mind the laptop market is not a niche one. Adding more possibilities and useful features to a preexisting successful product does not make it's usefulness limited. It expands it.
I'm not going to argue this all day back and forth, but your vision is obviously limited. The MP3 player was a Niche product that had limited use. It still is limited to being just a $350 music player for the most part. So are existing tablets, but the tablet computer is every bit as useful as a laptop + a note-taking device and then some, and in my mind the laptop market is not a niche one. Adding more possibilities and useful features to a preexisting successful product does not make it's usefulness limited. It expands it.
My 2¢
You weren't listening. It's not just a price/hardware issue, it's an actual use and functionality issue. Who wants to be looking down at a 90º angle for hours a day to use their computer? Who wants to type on a keyboard that feels like you're tapping a table, not inputting anything anywhere, and for hours on end in word processing, or spreadsheet making? Who wants to have not only hand joint and eye problems, but also back and neck problems later in life? Like I said, for limited use in certain areas, such as newspaper, or even internet reporting, medical offices (for medical imaging, and things like that), and possibly lawyers for the quick notes that you also mentioned.
Tablets are most certainly not the same as laptops. Tablets are only for quick use to glance at and enter quick things. Laptops can not only do that, but can be stood for longer periods, for different kinds of uses, with the physical feedback needed from an input device, and without too much bodily strain.
Additionally, there has to be MAJOR development of Multi-touch for it to be usable on a large scale, like laptops or tablets. Right now, it's only been developed for use on portables (iPhone, and an January, iPod). It's not even been developed for real typing. The keyboard on the iPhone isn't even large enough for full-fledged typing, and has to be input one touch at a time with one finger, as Jobs did at its very inception. Touch screen costs are an issue as well, and must come down before any major manufacturer can affordably produce a tablet.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are too many counts against it happening... yet. I would not be surprised to see it in a few years, say 2.5-3, maybe as much as 4, years.
No, your not thinking. That's your fault. Your only describing a slate. Not a convertible tablet.
A convertible tablet is a notebook ++
I'm putting more points out there than you, and I'm not thinking?
Anyways, you never said anything about a convertable laptop/tablet... In that case, I do agree - I can see that much, much more than just a slate tablet, and does have more usefulness... however, as I mentioned, Multi-touch needs to be developed much more, and a drop in touch screen prices needs to happen, but I could see it in maybe about 2 years or so. Unfortunately, it's not quite all there for even a convertable. \
I'm putting more points out there than you, and I'm not thinking?
Anyways, you never said anything about a convertable laptop/tablet... In that case, I do agree - I can see that much, much more than just a slate tablet, and does have more usefulness... however, as I mentioned, Multi-touch needs to be developed much more, and a drop in touch screen prices needs to happen, but I could see it in maybe about 2 years or so. Unfortunately, it's not quite all there for even a convertable. \
MusLtngBlue. I'm done. Think what you like. I'm sure you have all access to Apples prototype technology and had known about the iPhone, and all it's capabilities years ago. Don't tell me... Your old user name is really Kormac77 right? I'm sure you were making the plastics on all these apple devices 6 years ago. So I'm happy to now CONFIRM that Apple will not be releasing a tablet computer any time soon./ Good to know. Thanks for the heads up.
I don't think many parents out there will fork $500 to $600 to phones for their kids. On top of that the AT&T plan that might be costly. I wouldn't do it for my spoiled kids
The point I am making is that iPhone is a great gift for oneself, but people will rather buy iPods for others because: is cheaper, no 2 year commitment for plans, some people don't want switch carrier, some people don't like AT&T, Too expensive for careless kids, etc.
So the iPod has a much better selling point for xmas gifts than the iPhone. That's why I have hard time believing Apple will miss this season to make even more money selling iPods. of course, unless for some supplier reason they can have enough to announce it by October.
Are you kidding???? If Apple had made it in time for Graduation season the iPhone would have been THE graduation gift. Almost every teen I know (friends of daughter) would love an iPhone and their parents would have gotten for them.
MusLtngBlue. I'm done. Think what you like. I'm sure you have all access to Apples prototype technology and had known about the iPhone, and all it's capabilities years ago. Don't tell me... Your old user name is really Kormac77 right? I'm sure you were making the plastics on all these apple devices 6 years ago. So I'm happy to now CONFIRM that Apple will not be releasing a tablet computer any time soon./ Good to know. Thanks for the heads up.
Actually, this happens to be my first and only account. I don't claim to have access to anything of Apple's internal materials or anything (because I don't... unfortunately). And this isn't about what I do or don't want, I'm simply thinking about what's conceivably possible at this point. Hell, I even agreed with you, a convertible laptop/tablet would be very nice. All I'm saying all the elements that would need to come together for it aren't quite ready yet. I'm not trying to say 'It'll never happen' or 'I don't want this, therefore it won't happen' like others on here. All I'm pointing out is that this idea will not happen at MWSF 08, the topic of this thread.
Comments
Though I hope you're wrong.
We're nowhere near having commercially viable 15" high res OLED screens
Apple's sitting on so much cash they could easily finance a manufacturing joint-venture to get their (exclusive) hands on high res OLEDs.
But as you said they're likely too conservative to do that. And I think they try to get away from manufacturing.
And PC people will say, big deal, we've had that for a while.
Yep, sounds like the boring Apple of late...
My guess is that Steve is in the process of building the next paradigm shift in computing and Apple is currently focussing a lot of resources on it. It won't be ready for another year or two IMHO. But I'm sure it's not Mac centric. Probably not even iPhone centric. And I wouldn't be surprised if even Steve Jobs hasn't gotten the full picture yet either.
My bet would be on some 'ubiquitous pervasive computing' 'device' in whatever form. Apple being Apple they'll likely approach it step by step. iPhone being one such step, easy network connectivity another (web standards, network backups, the new Back To My Mac feature), multitouch another. Where will it end? Probably not in a multitouch tablet. Likely in a multitude of devices from desktop to mobile all running the same OS and accessing the same data making devices transparent and content the focus. As has been speculated before the move to Intel IMHO is part of that bigger plan as Intel can provide CPUs from mobile to server devices.
There have always been certain themes in Steve Jobs' life and IMHO they are still true today, providing a good glimpse at future directions.
The cube shape is one such 'theme'. A computer 'for the rest of us' another (that's why he was never really interested in the business sector.)
Whatever the next computer paradigm I'm sure Jobs' idea of it will be the 21st century version of 'a computer for the rest of us'.
http://www.billzarchy.com/clips/clips_apple_nav.htm
Also, I know these films were a scully thing, however it projected things that were being worked on at apple (Pre ouster of Jobs) at the time and jobsianly influenced.
Look how far ahead the newton was.
I wonder what its main designer, Walter Smith, is up to at the moment. Last I looked he was working at Microsoft on their 'Max' project. Not even sure if that's still a valid project at Microsoft. Seems to have transmogrified into 'Windows Live'...
I think Jobs killed the Newton not because it was John Scully's baby (although I'm sure that didn't help) but mainly because Jobs has a different idea of portable computing. And as much as I miss the Newton platform I tend to agree with Jobs that you don't want to have two platforms with two different subsets of the same data. You want to run the same apps on both using the same files not spreading yourself with too many versions of the same data.
Newton tried to be different in that it didn't actually have files, everything was just one big data soup. It would have made sense to go the other way and apply Newton's data soup model on the desktop, rather than now trying to run desktop apps on mobile devices (a la iPhone).
But in the end either way is fine as the goal is to have one OS on all your devices so all can use the same data. I'm pretty sure that's where Jobs wants to go. And Apple is in the unique position to build such a system as they can build and control both the hardware and software for it.
But I'm also sure that it'll be at least a year or two until any such strategy gets fully revealed. It's quite possible that this is another reason why we only see incremental hardware updates at the moment.
I wonder if E3 July 11 ? 13, 2007, at several hotels and Barker Hangar in Santa Monica, California, will bring us any new hardware.
Perhaps the imac for games?
Jon Ive has been pretty silent these past several months. I wonder what he has been working on.
I highly doubt you'll see Apple presenting new products at E3. That is mostly for game vendors, and console makers. There have been Macs there to play games on in the past but an announcement is highly unlikely; even after Carmac, and EA made speeches at WWDC. They are developers which made sense for them to be there, but two developers does not yet make Apple a gaming platform. It's a step in the right direction for them to announce some future games, but Apple seems to be set on integrated graphics in most of their products (which sucks in everybody's opinion) and they need to get rid of it in everything but the MIni of they are to be taken seriously by anyone that wants to play an occasional game. Let alone true gamers. You shouldn't have to buy a pro machine to get a graphics option, not in this day and age. Graphics is at the core of our technology. HDTV, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD is proof of that. People want the option of great graphics. That's why you don't have to buy the 75" HDTV to get an HDTV. They come in all sizes - unlike Apples desktops and laptops. Apple just doesn't get it yet.
I highly doubt you'll see Apple presenting new products at E3. That is mostly for game vendors, and console makers. There have been Macs there to play games on in the past but an announcement is highly unlikely; even after Carmac, and EA made speeches at WWDC.
You are likely correct, but it's something to think about. What better place to announce a new Mac mini tower that is right for gaming?
They don't actually have to present at E3 they could just do a cupertino press event. Then demo the units at Id and EA booths.
Even though I don't think anything remotely close (mini based gaming tower?) will come from Apple; an announcement at E3 would probably be scoffed at more than it would be praised. Maybe by next year If Apple kept the gaming efforts as a focus, but I think E3 would drown them in laughter by gamers this year. And I'm serious. A nintendo Wii is 50 times the gaming machine a Mac is, and a PC is about the same. Let alone the 360, and PS3.
Mac Book Mini aka Apple Tablet will be single biggest thing Apple could DO RIGHT (where everyone else tried and either failed or had partial success)
Let's see... why won't they make the Apple Tablet...? Oh yeah, you said it already...
everyone else tried and either failed or had partial success
And why did everyone fail? Because it's such a niche market, and a new concept/feeling/etc. to most people. People will tend to stick with what they are comfortable with, and switching to the tablet is one of those things where you have to be willing to take a plunge. There aren't many out there who would be willing. Additionally, the technology and software isn't affordable or developed and available. And it won't be for at least 3-4 years. I'm sorry, but it's just not feasible.
Let's see... why won't they make the Apple Tablet...? Oh yeah, you said it already...
And why did everyone fail? Because it's such a niche market, and a new concept/feeling/etc. to most people. .........
Exactly what everyone said about MP3 Players. Look at the market now, and who ownz it? Apple. This is exactly what they have the chance to do here.
Exactly what everyone said about MP3 Players. Look at the market now, and who ownz it? Apple. This is exactly what they have the chance to do here.
MP3 players never were a niche in the sense that tablets are - the issue then was memory/size ratio, cost, and that's about it. If those were never an issue, there would have been no problem at all with selling MP3 players - it's not a need/use issue.
Tablets, on the other hand, are not something most people are looking for; it doesn't suit their needs. I can see it for people like reporters, medical offices, and maybe even legal practices, where an interactive clipboard kind of thing would be useful; otherwise, looking down at a screen and whatnot just isn't what people need. What video or image editor would want to be looking down all day? It's as bad as looking at the ceiling for hours, your neck would start to kill. Additionally, who would want to type a report or a spreadsheet out on something with no feedback from a feeling aspect, along with the same looking sharply down issue. It's not what any large masses need. Only certain applications. Not enough for Apple to bother spending millions of dollars to develop.
MP3 players never were a niche in the sense that tablets are ..................
I'm not going to argue this all day back and forth, but your vision is obviously limited. The MP3 player was a Niche product that had limited use. It still is limited to being just a $350 music player for the most part. So are existing tablets, but the tablet computer is every bit as useful as a laptop + a note-taking device and then some, and in my mind the laptop market is not a niche one. Adding more possibilities and useful features to a preexisting successful product does not make it's usefulness limited. It expands it.
My 2¢
I'm not going to argue this all day back and forth, but your vision is obviously limited. The MP3 player was a Niche product that had limited use. It still is limited to being just a $350 music player for the most part. So are existing tablets, but the tablet computer is every bit as useful as a laptop + a note-taking device and then some, and in my mind the laptop market is not a niche one. Adding more possibilities and useful features to a preexisting successful product does not make it's usefulness limited. It expands it.
My 2¢
You weren't listening. It's not just a price/hardware issue, it's an actual use and functionality issue. Who wants to be looking down at a 90º angle for hours a day to use their computer? Who wants to type on a keyboard that feels like you're tapping a table, not inputting anything anywhere, and for hours on end in word processing, or spreadsheet making? Who wants to have not only hand joint and eye problems, but also back and neck problems later in life? Like I said, for limited use in certain areas, such as newspaper, or even internet reporting, medical offices (for medical imaging, and things like that), and possibly lawyers for the quick notes that you also mentioned.
Tablets are most certainly not the same as laptops. Tablets are only for quick use to glance at and enter quick things. Laptops can not only do that, but can be stood for longer periods, for different kinds of uses, with the physical feedback needed from an input device, and without too much bodily strain.
Additionally, there has to be MAJOR development of Multi-touch for it to be usable on a large scale, like laptops or tablets. Right now, it's only been developed for use on portables (iPhone, and an January, iPod). It's not even been developed for real typing. The keyboard on the iPhone isn't even large enough for full-fledged typing, and has to be input one touch at a time with one finger, as Jobs did at its very inception. Touch screen costs are an issue as well, and must come down before any major manufacturer can affordably produce a tablet.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are too many counts against it happening... yet. I would not be surprised to see it in a few years, say 2.5-3, maybe as much as 4, years.
You weren't listening. .
No, your not thinking. That's your fault. Your only describing a slate. Not a convertible tablet.
A convertible tablet is a notebook ++
No, your not thinking. That's your fault. Your only describing a slate. Not a convertible tablet.
A convertible tablet is a notebook ++
I'm putting more points out there than you, and I'm not thinking?
Anyways, you never said anything about a convertable laptop/tablet... In that case, I do agree - I can see that much, much more than just a slate tablet, and does have more usefulness... however, as I mentioned, Multi-touch needs to be developed much more, and a drop in touch screen prices needs to happen, but I could see it in maybe about 2 years or so. Unfortunately, it's not quite all there for even a convertable.
I'm putting more points out there than you, and I'm not thinking?
Anyways, you never said anything about a convertable laptop/tablet... In that case, I do agree - I can see that much, much more than just a slate tablet, and does have more usefulness... however, as I mentioned, Multi-touch needs to be developed much more, and a drop in touch screen prices needs to happen, but I could see it in maybe about 2 years or so. Unfortunately, it's not quite all there for even a convertable.
MusLtngBlue. I'm done. Think what you like. I'm sure you have all access to Apples prototype technology and had known about the iPhone, and all it's capabilities years ago. Don't tell me... Your old user name is really Kormac77 right? I'm sure you were making the plastics on all these apple devices 6 years ago. So I'm happy to now CONFIRM that Apple will not be releasing a tablet computer any time soon./ Good to know. Thanks for the heads up.
I don't think many parents out there will fork $500 to $600 to phones for their kids. On top of that the AT&T plan that might be costly. I wouldn't do it for my spoiled kids
The point I am making is that iPhone is a great gift for oneself, but people will rather buy iPods for others because: is cheaper, no 2 year commitment for plans, some people don't want switch carrier, some people don't like AT&T, Too expensive for careless kids, etc.
So the iPod has a much better selling point for xmas gifts than the iPhone. That's why I have hard time believing Apple will miss this season to make even more money selling iPods. of course, unless for some supplier reason they can have enough to announce it by October.
Are you kidding???? If Apple had made it in time for Graduation season the iPhone would have been THE graduation gift. Almost every teen I know (friends of daughter) would love an iPhone and their parents would have gotten for them.
MusLtngBlue. I'm done. Think what you like. I'm sure you have all access to Apples prototype technology and had known about the iPhone, and all it's capabilities years ago. Don't tell me... Your old user name is really Kormac77 right? I'm sure you were making the plastics on all these apple devices 6 years ago. So I'm happy to now CONFIRM that Apple will not be releasing a tablet computer any time soon./ Good to know. Thanks for the heads up.
Actually, this happens to be my first and only account. I don't claim to have access to anything of Apple's internal materials or anything (because I don't... unfortunately). And this isn't about what I do or don't want, I'm simply thinking about what's conceivably possible at this point. Hell, I even agreed with you, a convertible laptop/tablet would be very nice. All I'm saying all the elements that would need to come together for it aren't quite ready yet. I'm not trying to say 'It'll never happen' or 'I don't want this, therefore it won't happen' like others on here. All I'm pointing out is that this idea will not happen at MWSF 08, the topic of this thread.