That said, 65nm, superb overclocking potential, and AMD-ATI being in a bit of limbo at the moment, I cannot recommend AMD anymore. My AMD64 Athlon Venice3000+ 1.8ghz oc'ed on Zalman air cooler to 2.16ghz though is awesome for a two-year-old CPU, and games Looooove the AMD Athlon. But in late 2007 and early 2008, IntelCore2 [Conroe] is almost impossible to choose to not buy if you are getting a new PC. My 2 cents (again).
I think a lot depends on whether you wish to overclock and what your budget is. Most everything I've read agrees with you in that Intel chips right now are excellent for overclocking. However if you're not going to overclock and can only spend less than $300, AMD is competitive. It's certainly worth a look. At the high end Intel rules.
Apparently, the exam that really requires me to have a new computer is only gonna take place September 14th. Which means I can hold back my purchase till the second half of August.
Hopefully new iMacs will be out by then which might be good enough to seriously influence my decision
Update on my situation: Apparently, the exam that really requires me to have a new computer is only gonna take place September 14th. Which means I can hold back my purchase till the second half of August.
Hopefully new iMacs will be out by then which might be good enough to seriously influence my decision
OMFG Conf1rm3d!!! ...I 99.99% guarantee you there will be new 20" and 24" iMacs (no 17") by end of August. My gut feeling, disclaimer: take this statement with some decent helpings of salt.
I think a lot depends on whether you wish to overclock and what your budget is. Most everything I've read agrees with you in that Intel chips right now are excellent for overclocking. However if you're not going to overclock and can only spend less than $300, AMD is competitive. It's certainly worth a look. At the high end Intel rules.
Why would you not overclock when it's a matter of popping into BIOS and changing one setting? The bottom-of-the-barrel E4300 goes at least 130% speed on Intel stock cooler, crappy memory and motherboard. With luck and/or additional investment in parts, it does even better.
(I'm not even a tinkerer type, but this potential is such that you can't pass it in good conscience. )
Why would you not overclock when it's a matter of popping into BIOS and changing one setting? The bottom-of-the-barrel E4300 goes at least 130% speed on Intel stock cooler, crappy memory and motherboard. With luck and/or additional investment in parts, it does even better.
(I'm not even a tinkerer type, but this potential is such that you can't pass it in good conscience. )
Yeah it's hard to argue with your logic. If you oc your cpu would it void your warranty? That's the only reason I can think of and it's not compelling really.
Yeah it's hard to argue with your logic. If you oc your cpu would it void your warranty? That's the only reason I can think of and it's not compelling really.
As much as I can remember from looking at my processor/RAM/motherboard boxes when I upgraded them in my old pc a long time ago, yes it does void the warranty.
Why would you not overclock when it's a matter of popping into BIOS and changing one setting? The bottom-of-the-barrel E4300 goes at least 130% speed on Intel stock cooler, crappy memory and motherboard. With luck and/or additional investment in parts, it does even better.
(I'm not even a tinkerer type, but this potential is such that you can't pass it in good conscience. )
Totally. -- No more soldering jumpers or what not, hell, nowadays, in some cases, you can do it all in a pretty Windows GUI. No need to even touch the BIOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
Yeah it's hard to argue with your logic. If you oc your cpu would it void your warranty? That's the only reason I can think of and it's not compelling really.
OC is a 100% warranty violating activity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmarksdale
As much as I can remember from looking at my processor/RAM/motherboard boxes when I upgraded them in my old pc a long time ago, yes it does void the warranty.
The gains in extra performance and value for money exceeds the risk of warranty voiding, in my opinion. The trick [to err on the very cautious side, enthusiast/pro overclockers would laugh at these points but anyway...] is 1. sensible overclocking -- 2. appropriate stress testing (prime, superPi, sandra, etc.) -- 3. good airflow in CPU casing -- 4. do *not* perform any overclocking if you cannot guarantee a *room* temperature (not motherboard, casing, or CPU temp) of at most 20degC/68degF whenever the computer is running.
I'd use a (technically void) warranty in good conscience if the thing I had done is not related to the failure - e.g. if I had expired the warranty by opening a case of an appliance, and shortly afterwards a manufacturing defect disables its electric motor.
With chips, we could argue whether a conservative overclock without touching voltage hurts the chip, but AFAIK it can't be proven to have been overclocked, so depending on your opinion you could still be "covered" in good conscience. For that matter, CPU's are very reliable. I don't have any firsthand experience of someone wearing out one, overclock or no. That means you're not giving up much in expected value when you decide at time of overclock to drop the warranty option.
Quote:
The gains in extra performance and value for money exceeds the risk of warranty voiding, in my opinion. The trick [to err on the very cautious side, enthusiast/pro overclockers would laugh at these points but anyway...] is 1. sensible overclocking -- 2. appropriate stress testing (prime, superPi, sandra, etc.) -- 3. good airflow in CPU casing -- 4. do *not* perform any overclocking if you cannot guarantee a *room* temperature (not motherboard, casing, or CPU temp) of at most 20degC/68degF whenever the computer is running.
Sounds good to me. First go up in speed notch by notch, briefly test it for calculation errors with programs like pifast (I wouldn't bother for anything resembling a "stress test" at this point), and look at the temperatures now and then to make sure they're within manufacturer's stated limits. When you hit a "fail", whether it comes in the form of a calculation error, or the temps going past acceptable, dial the speed back down to a level that you find a good balance of speed, temperature and noise (noise being applicable when you have adjustable or self-adjusting fans). Then stress test from morning to evening or so, and iterate downwards in the unlikely chance you get a failure again.
Comments
That said, 65nm, superb overclocking potential, and AMD-ATI being in a bit of limbo at the moment, I cannot recommend AMD anymore. My AMD64 Athlon Venice3000+ 1.8ghz oc'ed on Zalman air cooler to 2.16ghz though is awesome for a two-year-old CPU, and games Looooove the AMD Athlon. But in late 2007 and early 2008, IntelCore2 [Conroe] is almost impossible to choose to not buy if you are getting a new PC.
I think a lot depends on whether you wish to overclock and what your budget is. Most everything I've read agrees with you in that Intel chips right now are excellent for overclocking. However if you're not going to overclock and can only spend less than $300, AMD is competitive. It's certainly worth a look. At the high end Intel rules.
Apparently, the exam that really requires me to have a new computer is only gonna take place September 14th. Which means I can hold back my purchase till the second half of August.
Hopefully new iMacs will be out by then which might be good enough to seriously influence my decision
Update on my situation: Apparently, the exam that really requires me to have a new computer is only gonna take place September 14th. Which means I can hold back my purchase till the second half of August.
Hopefully new iMacs will be out by then which might be good enough to seriously influence my decision
OMFG Conf1rm3d!!!
I think a lot depends on whether you wish to overclock and what your budget is. Most everything I've read agrees with you in that Intel chips right now are excellent for overclocking. However if you're not going to overclock and can only spend less than $300, AMD is competitive. It's certainly worth a look. At the high end Intel rules.
Why would you not overclock when it's a matter of popping into BIOS and changing one setting? The bottom-of-the-barrel E4300 goes at least 130% speed on Intel stock cooler, crappy memory and motherboard. With luck and/or additional investment in parts, it does even better.
(I'm not even a tinkerer type, but this potential is such that you can't pass it in good conscience.
Why would you not overclock when it's a matter of popping into BIOS and changing one setting? The bottom-of-the-barrel E4300 goes at least 130% speed on Intel stock cooler, crappy memory and motherboard. With luck and/or additional investment in parts, it does even better.
(I'm not even a tinkerer type, but this potential is such that you can't pass it in good conscience.
Yeah it's hard to argue with your logic. If you oc your cpu would it void your warranty? That's the only reason I can think of and it's not compelling really.
Yeah it's hard to argue with your logic. If you oc your cpu would it void your warranty? That's the only reason I can think of and it's not compelling really.
As much as I can remember from looking at my processor/RAM/motherboard boxes when I upgraded them in my old pc a long time ago, yes it does void the warranty.
Why would you not overclock when it's a matter of popping into BIOS and changing one setting? The bottom-of-the-barrel E4300 goes at least 130% speed on Intel stock cooler, crappy memory and motherboard. With luck and/or additional investment in parts, it does even better.
(I'm not even a tinkerer type, but this potential is such that you can't pass it in good conscience.
Totally.
Yeah it's hard to argue with your logic. If you oc your cpu would it void your warranty? That's the only reason I can think of and it's not compelling really.
OC is a 100% warranty violating activity.
As much as I can remember from looking at my processor/RAM/motherboard boxes when I upgraded them in my old pc a long time ago, yes it does void the warranty.
The gains in extra performance and value for money exceeds the risk of warranty voiding, in my opinion. The trick [to err on the very cautious side, enthusiast/pro overclockers would laugh at these points but anyway...] is 1. sensible overclocking -- 2. appropriate stress testing (prime, superPi, sandra, etc.) -- 3. good airflow in CPU casing -- 4. do *not* perform any overclocking if you cannot guarantee a *room* temperature (not motherboard, casing, or CPU temp) of at most 20degC/68degF whenever the computer is running.
OC is a 100% warranty violating activity.
I'd use a (technically void) warranty in good conscience if the thing I had done is not related to the failure - e.g. if I had expired the warranty by opening a case of an appliance, and shortly afterwards a manufacturing defect disables its electric motor.
With chips, we could argue whether a conservative overclock without touching voltage hurts the chip, but AFAIK it can't be proven to have been overclocked, so depending on your opinion you could still be "covered" in good conscience. For that matter, CPU's are very reliable. I don't have any firsthand experience of someone wearing out one, overclock or no. That means you're not giving up much in expected value when you decide at time of overclock to drop the warranty option.
The gains in extra performance and value for money exceeds the risk of warranty voiding, in my opinion. The trick [to err on the very cautious side, enthusiast/pro overclockers would laugh at these points but anyway...] is 1. sensible overclocking -- 2. appropriate stress testing (prime, superPi, sandra, etc.) -- 3. good airflow in CPU casing -- 4. do *not* perform any overclocking if you cannot guarantee a *room* temperature (not motherboard, casing, or CPU temp) of at most 20degC/68degF whenever the computer is running.
Sounds good to me. First go up in speed notch by notch, briefly test it for calculation errors with programs like pifast (I wouldn't bother for anything resembling a "stress test" at this point), and look at the temperatures now and then to make sure they're within manufacturer's stated limits. When you hit a "fail", whether it comes in the form of a calculation error, or the temps going past acceptable, dial the speed back down to a level that you find a good balance of speed, temperature and noise (noise being applicable when you have adjustable or self-adjusting fans). Then stress test from morning to evening or so, and iterate downwards in the unlikely chance you get a failure again.