What do you pay for the OSX privilege
I spent a good part of my week specing out SantaRosa laptops and the Macbook pro that I am/was looking to buy at the end of the year rings up to $2200 (base model with 160g 7200rpm drive)
A system with the same specs can be had from Dell for $1500. that includes vista...so I must ask myself is OSX worth $700 when I will also need Paralells to run Office 2007?
The "apple premium" used to be reasonable, but it isn't now.
Is the privilege of using OSX worth $700?
A system with the same specs can be had from Dell for $1500. that includes vista...so I must ask myself is OSX worth $700 when I will also need Paralells to run Office 2007?
The "apple premium" used to be reasonable, but it isn't now.
Is the privilege of using OSX worth $700?
Comments
I spent a good part of my week specing out SantaRosa laptops and the Macbook pro that I am/was looking to buy at the end of the year rings up to $2200 (base model with 160g 7200rpm drive)
A system with the same specs can be had from Dell for $1500. that includes vista...so I must ask myself is OSX worth $700 when I will also need Paralells to run Office 2007?
The "apple premium" used to be reasonable, but it isn't now.
Is the privilege of using OSX worth $700?
An Intel Mac is like buying two computers: OS X & Windows. How much would 2 cost?
OS X much better than Vista. I've been warned by IT tech working with Vista that it is not ready for "prime time". He told me to stick to XP until all Vista bugs are worked out. Then, think twice about buying it.
Think of Apple quality compared to PC quality.
Why buy a Honda, Toyota, Infiniti when a Yugo can get you to work and back?
Still not convinced? Wait until more AI members give you reasons.
I used PC's for over 20 years before switching to Macs. No more PCs for me.
Apple's as stable of a hardware platform as you're going to find.
Dell is lowest bidder for the quarter. Do you want a jalopy or a Jaguar?
There's a reason why Dell's Market Cap is now 2x below Apple and even more below HP. People are tired of their flaky computers and flaky support.
I've known more disgruntled Dell people than any other brand. I buy what I want. I don't worry about pricing differences within reason.
The MBP on the other hand is a pleasure to work on. I've a pc friend who picked up a MBP refurb and runs windows on it. If you want a pc laptop I'd look at Sony or Lennovo.
Your points about cost are more valid with low and mid range towers. There you get WAY more for your money than what Apple can offer.
I spent a good part of my week specing out SantaRosa laptops and the Macbook pro that I am/was looking to buy at the end of the year rings up to $2200 (base model with 160g 7200rpm drive)
A system with the same specs can be had from Dell for $1500. that includes vista...so I must ask myself is OSX worth $700 when I will also need Paralells to run Office 2007?
The "apple premium" used to be reasonable, but it isn't now.
Is the privilege of using OSX worth $700?
Are you sure it was the same specs? I did this not too long ago and I found Apple's models to be a fair bit cheaper. Remember, an X1300 GPU is not the same as an nVidia 8600M GT. This person found the same concerning the MBP and the Dell lineup:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=76444
If you are looking at a Dell with a low end GPU, the price will be more favourable if you start at a Macbook and work your way up. The trouble as usual is that Apple has no middle ground or at least not enough options.
Are you sure it was the same specs? I did this not too long ago and I found Apple's models to be a fair bit cheaper. Remember, an X1300 GPU is not the same as an nVidia 8600M GT. This person found the same concerning the MBP and the Dell lineup:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=76444
If you are looking at a Dell with a low end GPU, the price will be more favourable if you start at a Macbook and work your way up. The trouble as usual is that Apple has no middle ground or at least not enough options.
PROCESSOR\tIntel® Core™ 2 Duo T7500 (2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB/4MB cache)
OPERATING SYSTEM\tGenuine Windows ® Vista Home Premium Edition (Only real differance between this and ultimate is lack of video wallpaper and domain client support, OSX doesnt have that either without 3rd party tools)
DISPLAY\tHigh Resolution, glossy widescreen 15.4 inch display (1680x1050)
VIDEO CARD\t256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® Go 8600M GT\t
MEMORY\tFREE! 2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz\t
HARD DRIVE\t160G 7200RPM SATA HDD\t
OPTICAL DRIVE\tCD / DVD writer (DVD+/-RW Drive)\t
WIRELESS NETWORKING\tDell Wireless 1390 802.11g Mini-Card
BLUETOOTH OPTIONS\tBuilt-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR)
INTEGRATED WEBCAM\tIntegrated 2.0M Pixel Webcam\tedit
BATTERY OPTIONS\t56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)\tedit
SOUND OPTIONS\tHigh Definition Audio 2.0
PRICE: $1,593
Now the Macbook pro
MacBook Pro, 15-inch, 2.2GHz
Part Number: Z0EB
Accessory Kit
MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
160GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
Apple USB Modem
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
$2,273.00
DIFFERANCE: $680
and that has a 256MB 8600 which is $100 more than the 128MB 8300 and is double the ram than the low end MBP has.
I know what I am doing..
APPLE: PLEASE PLEASE PUT AN DISCERRT GPU IN THE BLACK MACBOOK...It would seal the deal for me and Apple!
Huh? The low end MBP has 2 GB.
I'm pretty sure he was trying to get the specs of the two machines to match as closely as possible.
It's evident to me that to come up to the quality of the Mac Pro, the Dell had to cost a bunch more.
REVIEW: Mac Pro Beats Dell on Price
By ROBERT WESTON , 08.23.2006, 03:42 PM
For years, Macintosh computers have been praised for their cool looks and elegant simplicity while being knocked for often carrying a hefty price premium over Windows-based machines sold by Dell Inc. and others.
It's time to think different. Again.
The recently released Mac Pro maintains the Apple shine in design, usability and software but also does something unexpected: It turns the old Mac versus Windows PC price equation on its head.
A low-end Mac Pro will cost you $2,124 compared with $3,071 for a nearly identically configured Dell Precision Workstation 490. The Mac is about $947 cheaper - and the gap widens when you start piling on options such as more memory, faster processors and bigger hard drives.
Like all other Macs introduced this year, the Mac Pro uses microprocessors from Intel Corp. rather than Apple's previous suppliers, IBM Corp. and Freescale Semiconductor Inc. It's also capable of running Windows if you've got a copy of the Microsoft Corp. operating system and supporting software from Apple or others.
The new Macs - targeted at professional users such as graphics professionals, researchers and businesses - run Intel Xeon processors. These chips, designed for servers and workstations, were launched by Intel earlier this summer.
I borrowed a higher-end Mac Pro that included two processors running at 3 gigahertz, an Nvidia Quadro FX 4500 graphics card with 512 megabytes of video memory, four 500 gigabyte hard drives and 4 gigabytes of system memory. In this configuration, it sells for $7,449.
A similarly configured Dell Precision 690 (the 490 doesn't offer as many hard drives) with the same hardware costs $8,534 - or $1,085 more than the Mac. (Both systems were configured on the companies' Web sites Wednesday. Prices are subject to change.)
The Mac Pro workstation is not only competitively priced, it's fast, too.
I took a 30-minute snippet of raw video and converted it into Apple's QuickTime format - a time-consuming challenge for most computers. I used Apple's Final Cut Pro video-editing software, which is designed to work on both new and older Macs.
The conversion took just over 4 minutes on the Mac Pro. On a Power Mac G5 - the model it replaced - the process took more than 10 minutes.
And the latest Macs are cool, literally. In fact, they run so much cooler that Apple was able to remove about half the fans used on the older machines. It frees up room for more features and makes for a considerably quieter system.
The Mac Pro also is expandable. It comes with two optical drive bays, four PCI Express expansion slots and four hard drive bays. The computer also can handle up to 16 gigabytes of system memory.
But the biggest change is the use of Xeon processors, each with two computing engines per chip. Plus, Mac Pros come with two Xeons each, giving the equivalent of four computing engines in each system.
On the back of the computer, Apple provides two digital video ports. The base system can support a single 30-inch display or two 23-inch displays. (Systems with higher-end graphics cards can support two 30-inch displays.)
In the rear, it's got ports galore, supporting USB 2, FireWire 800, FireWire 400 as well as optical digital audio input and output. It also has two ports for Ethernet connections. (And the front was not forgotten: There, it sports two USB 2 ports, one Firewire 800 port, one Firewire 400 port and a mini headphone jack.)
Like most of the other offerings from Apple, the systems are elegant and offer features that make you wonder why other PC companies have not adopted them.
Replacing or upgrading the memory, for instance, is easier than any computer I've ever used. Just slide one of two riser cards from the system, plug your RAM into the card and put it back in the case.
Adding or upgrading hard drives is equally simple: Just pull one of four trays from the computer, change or add the drive to the tray and slide it back inside. There are no cables to plug in.
Once again, Apple has produced a computer that really shines. With its ability to run Windows software too, it's an attractive system for any Mac or Windows-based business or high end consumer who needs a powerful machine at a competitive price.
The difference in price - and that it was in Apple's favor - was so surprising that I contacted Dell to confirm that I had not made a mistake in configuring its workstation.
Dell spokesman Marco Pena suggested that the numbers might be closer after configuring the Mac to include a three-year warranty similar to the Dell offering. "But I think we're still going to end up a little higher than the Mac," he said.
"The results were a bit surprising to me too," he said. "But it is what it is."
The "apple premium" used to be reasonable, but it isn't now.
I disagree. If you think otherwise, then go with the Dell. Better yet, get an HP or a Sony. I would not recommend that anyone buy a Dell.
Is the privilege of using OSX worth $700?
These is largely subjective, but for me, the answer is yes. First, I happen to think that OS X is a much better OS for the things that I do. Second, the Dell might cost less, but it is a 2 inch thick hunk of fugly plastic compared to the MacBook. Finally, while you couldn't pay me $700 to use Vista exclusively (which you'll have to do if you buy the Dell), it is always nice to know that I can run Windows along with OS X on my Macbook if the need should arise.
The most important thing is to go with whatever fits your particular needs best. That might be a PC, in which case, go for it.
I'm pretty sure he was trying to get the specs of the two machines to match as closely as possible.
That's what I'm saying. The low end MBP comes with 2 GB standard.
My G4 was of the P3 era, 2 years after i bought my P3 I couldn't get $100 for it.
Where I just sold my G4 for $550 5 years after I bought it.
You can trade-in that Mac Book Pro for $1000 for the newest MacBook Pro Sr with triple triple quad cores and 500 gigs of ram in 5 years. The Dell you can do what my school does.... They demolish P4 Dells they've had for 3 years. Gone
Also don't forget how much that Dell is worth 5 years later.
My G4 was of the P3 era, 2 years after i bought my P3 I couldn't get $100 for it.
Where I just sold my G4 for $550 5 years after I bought it.
You can trade-in that Mac Book Pro for $1000 for the newest MacBook Pro Sr with triple triple quad cores and 500 gigs of ram in 5 years. The Dell you can do what my school does.... They demolish P4 Dells they've had for 3 years. Gone
SO much to respond to:
Past proformance doesnt garentee future results...I expect and account for full depreciation of any CE that I purchase. it is silly to "count on" resale value of computer equipment, Apple or otherwise.
You didnt try to sell your PC in the right place...I see 2-4 year old PCs selling for $200-500 in newspaper classifieds.
DUDE! A 3 year old Dell can make a GREAT system for a needy/underprivilaged home! toss on the latest Ubuntu or clean install the factory stuff, strip out crapware, and run updates and it is a fine computer for web and homework! hell, for most PCs 2-5 years old one can double the ram for under $50, add to that the $10/Mo DSL that ATT is now selling, a lot of poorer folks could have nice computers without shady financing deals from big-box retail or Rent-to-own...plus it is better than just tossing that led into the landfill.
My past and current experience has been I have to say current Mac's have had a higher resale value.
I've had my PC, Intel C2D for sale for a month, E6600, 200 gig sata Os drive, An Extra Raid 0 array 90 gigs, 2 gigs of ram, rack case on an on, no bites at all. My G4 I had tons of reply's, not all willing to pay but she was gone in less then a week. Hard to know if the Intel ones will be the same but I'll assume I have at least $1000 down on my system in 3 years (whether I have to or not who knows). I'm sure I'll be slightly behind the bleeding edge though. I recall saying for my P3 that "I'd never need more then 512mb of ram.
I'm saying now, "I won't ever need more then 16 gigs of ram"
It's all good
Later
Brian
Thickness
Weight
Backlit
Magsafe
Accelerometers
FW 800
802.11n
Remote
LED Backlight
I'd personally be reluctant to pay $700 for OS X but that price difference assumes you get nothing out of the rest of the hardware features, the form factor etc.
Still, if you don't just look at the price in vacuum but consider the return on investment on a tool...
Take the $700. Subtract your daily wage multiplied by how many days' worth of work hours you think you'd save in two years using OS X versus Windows, and Apple hardware vs Dell hardware. (Account for time going into troubleshooting, time spent fixing things, and the difference between how long normal tasks take to accomplish.) Take the remainder and divide it by 700*your average hours spent on the machine daily. That's how much the quality difference costs you per hour in the next two years. How big a percentage is that of your hourly wage.. 0.1%? 0.05%? Is it possible that using what you think is a nicer system will affect your mood enough to make you work 0.1% more effectively?
And that's just the monetary angle, with no regard for personal comfort for its own sake.
Can you give a model number or a link?
DL DVD-R
Thickness
Weight
Backlit
Magsafe
Accelerometers
FW 800
802.11n
Remote
LED Backlight
aluminum case
optical audio in/out
60WHr Battery
DVI
6-Pin Powered Firewire 400
Gigabit Ethernet
Free iPod (if you're a student ($200 off the price as well))
And just a comparison on volume:
Dell: 219.8 cubic inches
MBP: 135.4 cubic inches
DL DVD-R
Thickness
Weight
Backlit
Magsafe
Accelerometers
FW 800
802.11n
Remote
LED Backlight
Just wanted to add to the list:
Ambient light sensor for controlling the backlit keyboard and screen brightness