Judging from responses, about half the folks want a basic iPod (albeit w/ a bigger screen and MultiTouch), and half want a 'wiPod', with those things plus WiFi internet browsing, and perhaps OTA iTunes downloads down the road, plus wireless synching with their Mac/PC.
I have yet to hear any convincing arguments that rule out the wiPod as an apocalyptically horrible idea ('it wouldn't be cheaper than the iPhone' isn't one of them, since from tear-downs in appears that Apple has lots of margin wiggle room on iPhone-style devices), so I'd imagine that Apple may have two product lineups (at the high end, anyway)... iPods for those who want the basics, and wiPods for those who want an 'iPhone without the phone'.
Then everyone's happy... we hope.
Also, it heads off Microsoft, SanDisk, Sony et al at the pass, as they would love to jump into and get a foothold in the 'wiPod' market before Apple gets there, heck maybe with their own lousy touchscreen implementation to boot.
Microsoft, SanDisk, etc. DESPERATELY need to differentiate their product offerings from the iPod any way they can, 'wiPods' are prolly their best shot at doing so. Even if it is with some crap 'minbrowser' on it. \
All I want is a high resolution widescreen display, and enough capacity to hold my 40 or so DVD's.
That is ALL I want. A portable movie player.
I think i'm the easiest of us to satisfy!
THANK YOU FINALLY SOMEONE NORMAL!!!
The iPod was made as a media player not a music/movie/web/document editor (yes i read it in this forum)/toaster/camera/mini mac os x/alarm clock/walkie talkie!!!!!
Seriously!, if you want all that buy the iPhone, or a laptop! The iPod is a media player. Don't put all that other crap on it cause that is what the iphone and macbooks are for!!!!!!
REASONABLE nextgen iPods I could see having touchscreen, coverflow, widescreen, and a larger hard drive. As for the new NAND flash, what the heck are you going to do with 16GB of memory?!, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! I would love a 100GB or 120GB so I could put my movies on it. The smaller flash hd is stupid as I could care less about battery consumption. Please leave the iPhone, laptop, and iPod seperate in their respective categories.
As for the new NAND flash, what the heck are you going to do with 16GB of memory?!, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!
...
Well, 16GB is plenty space for all sort of files. Believe it or not.
First of all, couple years ago I thought a huge HD to carry around my
entire music library day in day out was a bodacious idea to start with.
Wrong. Fallacy. (I'm strictly talking about my very own habits.)
I couldn't even believe, that Apple sparked a 1GB and 2GB iPod launch
respectively. Initially I couldn't even think of a possible market and target
for that account. (chicks an' coeds? no way.)
People (me included) were so used (and proud) to carry their entire
music treasure around with. That changed completely.
Though, the movie thing wasn't even born, yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple1776
...
I would love a 100GB or 120GB so I could put my movies on it. The smaller flash hd is stupid as I could care less about battery consumption. Please leave the iPhone, laptop, and iPod seperate in their respective categories.
I support that. I actually hate swiss army media knifes, if you know
what I mean.
Aside, to ad some business logic to the game, the iPod with WiFi capabilities
makes perfect sense in commerce. Purchase, Download, pay an' listen/watch, no?
All done with just one uncanny slick gizmo. A cult is born. And more, a need is born.
I think Jobs is right, when he was saying that the iPhone is likely to change the rules.
The iPhone is just a starter in my humble opinion. Who can impede his plans?
REASONABLE nextgen iPods I could see having touchscreen, coverflow, widescreen, and a larger hard drive. As for the new NAND flash, what the heck are you going to do with 16GB of memory?!, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! I would love a 100GB or 120GB so I could put my movies on it. The smaller flash hd is stupid as I could care less about battery consumption. Please leave the iPhone, laptop, and iPod seperate in their respective categories.
REASONABLE is in the eye of the beholder. I couldn't care less about dragging 100GB of content around, but I do care about battery life; I want the thing to last SFO to MIA, including check-in, ride to and from the airport, and a few extra hours upon arrival. Only a part of that needs to support WiFi power levels, but I have no need to power a disk drive.
Basically, we don't want the same thing. We are discussing two classes of product here. Ideally, we will each get what we want. Don't get hung up on categories, times change and technology allows for different categories. Not all of the possibilities technology allows make sense; but some do and these change over time.
REASONABLE is in the eye of the beholder. I couldn't care less about dragging 100GB of content around, but I do care about battery life; I want the thing to last SFO to MIA, including check-in, ride to and from the airport, and a few extra hours upon arrival. Only a part of that needs to support WiFi power levels, but I have no need to power a disk drive.
Basically, we don't want the same thing. We are discussing two classes of product here. Ideally, we will each get what we want. Don't get hung up on categories, times change and technology allows for different categories. Not all of the possibilities technology allows make sense; but some do and these change over time.
I agree with you that reasonable is in the eye of the beholder - very well stated. We all have our own opinions. I do believe like you said that we are talking about two different classes of products (couldn't have said it better myself). I just wanted to make that post to see the different respones it would bring. I also agree with the poster above you that said wifi would be great for i.e. itunes store on the ipod. In my opinion that would be cool for just the store but "I" wouldn't need safari. That is why I absolutely love my 12" PowerBook G4 - portable and powerful.
But like I said, that's just one persons opinion out of billions.
I see Apple adding wifi for temporary sharing "promotion". I don't see them adding too many features features in the way of browsing the Internet. This would take away too many iPhone potential customers.
I do think it will allow for wi-fi downloads only because I have now seen itunes take information from my iphone and update information in my calendar and address book. Before, in the itune/ipod relationship, all information had to be added or taken away by computer.
I also see the days of going to a friend's house and pulling off a bunch of music onto your ipod no longer existing with our new ipods. Look how you sync appleTV and iPhone. This will surely become the model for the new ipods.
Can someone explain the economics of a WiPod to me?
Because what a lot of people are clamoring for is an iPhone, without a couple of the cheap radio components, some software left off, and a 100GB 1.8" drive that retails for around $250.
So: leave out the (according to the iSuppli teardown) $1.90 BT radio, the roughly $15 worth of "core communications" silicon, some software that doesn't save Apple any money at all, throw in a drive that would likely cost Apple at least twice what they're paying for 8GB of flash memory, and sell it for at least $100 less, if not $200 less, than the 8GB iPhone.
Hmmmmm....... I'm going to say...... no fucking way.
As far as "wiggle room" because of big margins that have been bandied about, those are based on a calculation of the cost of parts to Apple. Meaning, to get that fat 50% margin that allows Apple to discount a WiPod, we have to pretend it doesn't cost Apple anything to develop, manufacture, package, ship and market the iPhone. Once you take all that into account, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that Apple is making in the neighborhood of its customary 30% margin.
A touchscreen iPod with WiFi is 95% of an iPhone. A touchscreen iPod with WiFi and a 100GB drive is 110% of an iPhone.
Shit, a touchscreen iPod without WiFi ($6 chip) and 8GB of flash is 90% of an iPhone.
Since the current 80GB model goes for $350, and a touchscreen wonderPod would be considered quite an upgrade, figure a minimum of $450, if not $500.
I don't think that I'd pay that, myself, but I can't see how the numbers work out any other way.
Again, the problem for Apple, as I see it, is that changing the functionality of the iPhone hardware platform is mostly a matter of changing software. The "phone" part of the iPhone is, except for a few cheap parts, just an app.
It would be as if Apple decided to make a "web appliance" MacBook that was exactly like the actual MacBook but without some apps. Would it make sense for them to sell that for $750?
Since the current 80GB model goes for $350, and a touchscreen wonderPod would be considered quite an upgrade, figure a minimum of $450, if not $500.
This is one angle Apple could take. In my wishful thinking lineup in FH, I was, or we were, wanting the flash iPhone to go down in price to $400 and to make room for an HDD iPhone at the top end of $600. This pretty much forced the iPod to go without wireless, but it would have kept it below $350.
Perhaps the iPod and iPhone are different such that they can have common price points and not have customer confusion. Proposed January 2008 lineup:
Code:
$599 iPhone 120 GB HDD 3G+WiFi+BT
$499 iPhone 16 GB flash 3G+WiFi+BT
$399 iPhone 8 GB flash EDGE+WiFi+BT
$449 iPod 120 GB HDD WiFi+BT
$349 iPod 80 GB HDD WiFi+BT
$249 iPod 40 GB HDD no wireless
$249 iPod nano 16 GB flash
$199 iPod nano 8 GB
$149 iPod nano 4 GB
$79 iPod shuffle
Seems confusing when it's written down. In reality, there won't be an iPhone with an HDD. So the iPhone lineup would really be 16/8/4 GB flash, but I'm wishfully thinking here. The other lineup made a lot more sense, especially if Apple made an iPhone with a hard drive.
What's the largest 1.8" hard drive that they have right now? Is it 120GB?
Apple will put that in the next iPod if it's available, right?
Toshiba has an 8 mm thick 100 GB 1.8" drive. They also have a 5 mm thick 40 GB 1.8" drive. Seagate has 5 mm thick 30/60 GB 1.8" drives. I do not know which one Apple uses for the 30 GB iPod. It's obvious they use the Toshiba for the 80 GB iPod.
100 GB is probably the most you could hope for, unless Apple is willing to commission 2 platter 1.8 drives (capacities of 120 to 200 GB?) and increase the thickness of the top-end capacity iPod to at least 18 millimeters in thickness (at least another 3 mm thicker than the current 80 GB one). I don't think they are willing to do that.
It is an interesting cost/value equation. These drives aren't small: ~ 8 x 54 x 71 mm. They could probably put 64 GB of flash (using the 8 GByte chips in iPhones), maybe even 96 GB, in that volume. It would make for a 14 mm thick iPod though. I'd imagine the cost of 8/10 of those flash chips will fall in the 250-350 dollar range though. That's just for the chips. Apple still has to buy a host of other components in the 200 dollar range. An 80 GB drive probably costs them 60 to 80 dollars, maybe even less considering they've been in iPods for almost a year now.
If they can get their hands on 45 nm or 55 nm 8 GByte flash, 30 to 60 GBs will probably be reasonable though.
Comments
All I want is a high resolution widescreen display, and enough capacity to hold my 40 or so DVD's.
That is ALL I want. A portable movie player.
I think i'm the easiest of us to satisfy!
Don't get me wrong, but it definitively sounds like you're
not part of Apple's target in that regard.
Don't get me wrong, but it definitively sounds like you're
not part of Apple's target in that regard.
But they will come out with a widescreen ipod with high capacity. Right?
I have yet to hear any convincing arguments that rule out the wiPod as an apocalyptically horrible idea ('it wouldn't be cheaper than the iPhone' isn't one of them, since from tear-downs in appears that Apple has lots of margin wiggle room on iPhone-style devices), so I'd imagine that Apple may have two product lineups (at the high end, anyway)... iPods for those who want the basics, and wiPods for those who want an 'iPhone without the phone'.
Then everyone's happy... we hope.
Also, it heads off Microsoft, SanDisk, Sony et al at the pass, as they would love to jump into and get a foothold in the 'wiPod' market before Apple gets there, heck maybe with their own lousy touchscreen implementation to boot.
Microsoft, SanDisk, etc. DESPERATELY need to differentiate their product offerings from the iPod any way they can, 'wiPods' are prolly their best shot at doing so. Even if it is with some crap 'minbrowser' on it.
.
All I want is a high resolution widescreen display, and enough capacity to hold my 40 or so DVD's.
That is ALL I want. A portable movie player.
I think i'm the easiest of us to satisfy!
THANK YOU FINALLY SOMEONE NORMAL!!!
The iPod was made as a media player not a music/movie/web/document editor (yes i read it in this forum)/toaster/camera/mini mac os x/alarm clock/walkie talkie!!!!!
Seriously!, if you want all that buy the iPhone, or a laptop! The iPod is a media player. Don't put all that other crap on it cause that is what the iphone and macbooks are for!!!!!!
REASONABLE nextgen iPods I could see having touchscreen, coverflow, widescreen, and a larger hard drive. As for the new NAND flash, what the heck are you going to do with 16GB of memory?!, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! I would love a 100GB or 120GB so I could put my movies on it. The smaller flash hd is stupid as I could care less about battery consumption. Please leave the iPhone, laptop, and iPod seperate in their respective categories.
...
As for the new NAND flash, what the heck are you going to do with 16GB of memory?!, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!
...
Well, 16GB is plenty space for all sort of files. Believe it or not.
First of all, couple years ago I thought a huge HD to carry around my
entire music library day in day out was a bodacious idea to start with.
Wrong. Fallacy. (I'm strictly talking about my very own habits.
I couldn't even believe, that Apple sparked a 1GB and 2GB iPod launch
respectively. Initially I couldn't even think of a possible market and target
for that account. (chicks an' coeds? no way.)
People (me included) were so used (and proud) to carry their entire
music treasure around with. That changed completely.
Though, the movie thing wasn't even born, yet.
...
I would love a 100GB or 120GB so I could put my movies on it. The smaller flash hd is stupid as I could care less about battery consumption. Please leave the iPhone, laptop, and iPod seperate in their respective categories.
I support that. I actually hate swiss army media knifes, if you know
what I mean.
Aside, to ad some business logic to the game, the iPod with WiFi capabilities
makes perfect sense in commerce. Purchase, Download, pay an' listen/watch, no?
All done with just one uncanny slick gizmo. A cult is born. And more, a need is born.
I think Jobs is right, when he was saying that the iPhone is likely to change the rules.
The iPhone is just a starter in my humble opinion. Who can impede his plans?
my2cents
REASONABLE nextgen iPods I could see having touchscreen, coverflow, widescreen, and a larger hard drive. As for the new NAND flash, what the heck are you going to do with 16GB of memory?!, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! I would love a 100GB or 120GB so I could put my movies on it. The smaller flash hd is stupid as I could care less about battery consumption. Please leave the iPhone, laptop, and iPod seperate in their respective categories.
REASONABLE is in the eye of the beholder. I couldn't care less about dragging 100GB of content around, but I do care about battery life; I want the thing to last SFO to MIA, including check-in, ride to and from the airport, and a few extra hours upon arrival. Only a part of that needs to support WiFi power levels, but I have no need to power a disk drive.
Basically, we don't want the same thing. We are discussing two classes of product here. Ideally, we will each get what we want. Don't get hung up on categories, times change and technology allows for different categories. Not all of the possibilities technology allows make sense; but some do and these change over time.
REASONABLE is in the eye of the beholder. I couldn't care less about dragging 100GB of content around, but I do care about battery life; I want the thing to last SFO to MIA, including check-in, ride to and from the airport, and a few extra hours upon arrival. Only a part of that needs to support WiFi power levels, but I have no need to power a disk drive.
Basically, we don't want the same thing. We are discussing two classes of product here. Ideally, we will each get what we want. Don't get hung up on categories, times change and technology allows for different categories. Not all of the possibilities technology allows make sense; but some do and these change over time.
I agree with you that reasonable is in the eye of the beholder - very well stated. We all have our own opinions. I do believe like you said that we are talking about two different classes of products (couldn't have said it better myself). I just wanted to make that post to see the different respones it would bring. I also agree with the poster above you that said wifi would be great for i.e. itunes store on the ipod. In my opinion that would be cool for just the store but "I" wouldn't need safari. That is why I absolutely love my 12" PowerBook G4 - portable and powerful.
But like I said, that's just one persons opinion out of billions.
I do think it will allow for wi-fi downloads only because I have now seen itunes take information from my iphone and update information in my calendar and address book. Before, in the itune/ipod relationship, all information had to be added or taken away by computer.
I also see the days of going to a friend's house and pulling off a bunch of music onto your ipod no longer existing with our new ipods. Look how you sync appleTV and iPhone. This will surely become the model for the new ipods.
WHEN WILL THEY COME OUT WITH A WIDESCREEN TOUCH SCREEN IPOD???
I CAN'T WAIT ANY LONGER!!!
Can someone explain the economics of a WiPod to me?
Because what a lot of people are clamoring for is an iPhone, without a couple of the cheap radio components, some software left off, and a 100GB 1.8" drive that retails for around $250.
So: leave out the (according to the iSuppli teardown) $1.90 BT radio, the roughly $15 worth of "core communications" silicon, some software that doesn't save Apple any money at all, throw in a drive that would likely cost Apple at least twice what they're paying for 8GB of flash memory, and sell it for at least $100 less, if not $200 less, than the 8GB iPhone.
Hmmmmm....... I'm going to say...... no fucking way.
As far as "wiggle room" because of big margins that have been bandied about, those are based on a calculation of the cost of parts to Apple. Meaning, to get that fat 50% margin that allows Apple to discount a WiPod, we have to pretend it doesn't cost Apple anything to develop, manufacture, package, ship and market the iPhone. Once you take all that into account, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that Apple is making in the neighborhood of its customary 30% margin.
A touchscreen iPod with WiFi is 95% of an iPhone. A touchscreen iPod with WiFi and a 100GB drive is 110% of an iPhone.
Shit, a touchscreen iPod without WiFi ($6 chip) and 8GB of flash is 90% of an iPhone.
Since the current 80GB model goes for $350, and a touchscreen wonderPod would be considered quite an upgrade, figure a minimum of $450, if not $500.
I don't think that I'd pay that, myself, but I can't see how the numbers work out any other way.
Again, the problem for Apple, as I see it, is that changing the functionality of the iPhone hardware platform is mostly a matter of changing software. The "phone" part of the iPhone is, except for a few cheap parts, just an app.
It would be as if Apple decided to make a "web appliance" MacBook that was exactly like the actual MacBook but without some apps. Would it make sense for them to sell that for $750?
Thank you.....
Since the current 80GB model goes for $350, and a touchscreen wonderPod would be considered quite an upgrade, figure a minimum of $450, if not $500.
This is one angle Apple could take. In my wishful thinking lineup in FH, I was, or we were, wanting the flash iPhone to go down in price to $400 and to make room for an HDD iPhone at the top end of $600. This pretty much forced the iPod to go without wireless, but it would have kept it below $350.
Perhaps the iPod and iPhone are different such that they can have common price points and not have customer confusion. Proposed January 2008 lineup:
$599 iPhone 120 GB HDD 3G+WiFi+BT
$499 iPhone 16 GB flash 3G+WiFi+BT
$399 iPhone 8 GB flash EDGE+WiFi+BT
$449 iPod 120 GB HDD WiFi+BT
$349 iPod 80 GB HDD WiFi+BT
$249 iPod 40 GB HDD no wireless
$249 iPod nano 16 GB flash
$199 iPod nano 8 GB
$149 iPod nano 4 GB
$79 iPod shuffle
Seems confusing when it's written down.
Apple will put that in the next iPod if it's available, right?
What's the largest 1.8" hard drive that they have right now? Is it 120GB?
Apple will put that in the next iPod if it's available, right?
Toshiba has an 8 mm thick 100 GB 1.8" drive. They also have a 5 mm thick 40 GB 1.8" drive. Seagate has 5 mm thick 30/60 GB 1.8" drives. I do not know which one Apple uses for the 30 GB iPod. It's obvious they use the Toshiba for the 80 GB iPod.
100 GB is probably the most you could hope for, unless Apple is willing to commission 2 platter 1.8 drives (capacities of 120 to 200 GB?) and increase the thickness of the top-end capacity iPod to at least 18 millimeters in thickness (at least another 3 mm thicker than the current 80 GB one). I don't think they are willing to do that.
It is an interesting cost/value equation. These drives aren't small: ~ 8 x 54 x 71 mm. They could probably put 64 GB of flash (using the 8 GByte chips in iPhones), maybe even 96 GB, in that volume. It would make for a 14 mm thick iPod though. I'd imagine the cost of 8/10 of those flash chips will fall in the 250-350 dollar range though. That's just for the chips. Apple still has to buy a host of other components in the 200 dollar range. An 80 GB drive probably costs them 60 to 80 dollars, maybe even less considering they've been in iPods for almost a year now.
If they can get their hands on 45 nm or 55 nm 8 GByte flash, 30 to 60 GBs will probably be reasonable though.
I can categorically tell you now the next ipod will NOT have WIFI or any other form of wireless internet access.
Amen.