3G is only available in the Greater Toronto Area anyways for now
UMTS (at HSDPA speeds) is rolling out in major urban centres right now with official launch scheduled for 1Q08.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey
Does anybody know if there is any infrastructural (is that a word?) reason for costs to be so high in Canada? I know it is a big country with a relatively small population, but I assume that Rogers would only be focusing on the population centers which would mitigate, to some extent, these costs.
How about the cold. Do the towers have to be constructed differently or with power-hungry deicers up there?
Or is it simply a case of a de facto monopoly that is trampling the people in Canada land?
No, no, bingo!
95% of the population is either in a major urban centre or within 100km of the US border so density is as high or higher then USA (even counting coverage of the major highways in-between everything), cold is not a factor, there you go:
The telecoms in Canada operate as a (silent, illegal) cartel—colluding to set fixed high prices because the regulatory agency doesn't smack them down and they are protected from foreign competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by panamajack
A question on Cdn. data rates: aret there more competitive rates for enterprise users ? Blackberries are just as popular in the home of RIM has in other major business centers .... are Canadian firms just paying more, or have their economies of scale brought prices down ?
Nah, data rates are just as screwed for corporate users. RIM has been complaining for years that the high data rates hinder their business.
free medical care (lets not talk about the quality) is just about the only thing better in canada and europe.
It's not free. they pay a much greater percentage of taxes than we do. VAT also brings the cost of products up more. We don't have taxes on each stage of production the way they do.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no more national wireless carriers in the US than here in Canada: Sprint, T-Mobil, AT&T and Cingular to Telus, Bell, and Rogers. I doubt that the extra carrier makes for less collusion. I suspect that the problem in Canada is that both the population and population density are lower than in the US.
Once you have the wireless infrastructure in place, 5M or 50M people can use it just the same (perhaps with minor upgrades), and to reach everyone, the wireless carriers have to spread their resources over a larger area. There is nothing more to the higher data prices.
Outside of the coastal megalopolises, the US is pretty sparsely populated. At least, most Canadians live in the southern part of the country.
Rogers are your typical evil money hungry corporation.
Mediocre to Awful Service
Mediocre to Outrageous Pricing
Extremely Annoying and Smug Advertising.
I'm a customer. They (Rogers/Fido) are the only carriers in Canada who run on GSM, which I need for my UK phone when traveling to Canada.
They really are a bunch of utter gits, but it seems like they have little reason to change cause they get away with this bull. Hopefully they will get their arm twisted by Apple to offer better plans for iPhone customers, but I wouldn't hold my breath for any sort of "value for money" compared with the US and certainly not Europe/Japan.
I've never really understood Canada, Rogers is huge, it's the cable, TV, internet, phones... but it's Rogers.... That's like "Bob's Wireless" except his name is Roger. A better name wasn't available?
Maybe Rogers means something else in French?
Rogers Cablevision was founded by Ted Rogers in the 1960's, I believe. Rogers then acquired the long distance phone business of ATT Canada in the 1990's, and quickly introduced or bought a cell phone service.
Ted Rogers is still president of the company he founded and always looking for new ways to expand his business.
It's not free. they pay a much greater percentage of taxes than we do. VAT also brings the cost of products up more. We don't have taxes on each stage of production the way they do.
The USA actually spends more per capita on healthcare then just about anybody. Around 15% of GDP off the top of my head, against around 10% for the UK and 12% for Canada.
The USA actually spends more per capita on healthcare then just about anybody. Around 15% of GDP off the top of my head, against around 10% for the UK and 12% for Canada.
We have higher tech healthcare, that's why the numbers are skewed. And in those other countries, as I saw on CNN the other night, in Canada, people spend about 20% of their money out of the system. The number is almost the same in England, France, etc.
I read somewhere, for example, that while canada had less than 100 CAT scanners (this was a few years ago, so both numbers might be higher), the US had over 5,000.
We also pay for the privilege of getting non life threatening operations without having to wait on a queue.
We have higher tech healthcare, that's why the numbers are skewed. And in those other countries, as I saw on CNN the other night, in Canada, people spend about 20% of their money out of the system. The number is almost the same in England, France, etc.
I read somewhere, for example, that while canada had less than 100 CAT scanners (this was a few years ago, so both numbers might be higher), the US had over 5,000.
We also pay for the privilege of getting non life threatening operations without having to wait on a queue.
For your consideration:
? Average in-hospital treatment costs are nearly twice as much in the U.S. ($20,673 U.S. vs. $10,373)
? There are 9.9 qualified nurses per 1000 population in Canada as compared to 7.9 nurses per 1000 population in US (so you get a highly personalized care!)
? Overall satisfaction with the surgical experience is similar in both countries (85.3% U.S. and 83.5% Canada).
? The number of acute care hospital beds in Canada is 3.0 per 1000 population as compared to 2.8 in US
? Canadians have lower rates of in-hospital mortality (1.4% Canada vs. 2.2% U.S.).
? Administrative costs consume more of the total cost of treatment in the U.S. (38.2% of total costs in the U.S. vs. 31.7% in Canada).
? In-hospital cost of coronary artery bypass graft surgery (CABG) in the U.S. is 82.5 % higher in the U.S. than in Canada.
? The mortality rate for end-stage renal disease is 47% higher in the U.S. than in Canada. Adjusted monthly costs of treatment are $503 higher in the U.S.
? Fifty-seven percent (57%) of U.S. patients have reprocessed dialyzers used on them, compared with 0.0% of Canadian patients.
? Compared with the American counterparts, low-income Canadians have a significant survival.
? Advantage for 13 of the 15 kinds of cancer studied.
? One-year mortality rates following myocardial infarction are virtually identical for both countries (34.3% U.S. vs. 34.4% Canada).
? Canada has a higher rate of annual bone marrow transplants (0.89 per 100,000 population vs. 0.81per 100,000 in the U.S.)
? Canada has lower mortality rates for patients 65 and older three years after both low-mortality (18.52% U.S. vs. 15.31% Canada) and moderate-mortality (19.19% U.S. vs. 16.63% Canada) procedures.
? Survival rate for four disease condition is higher in Canada than in America:
o Colorectal cancer: 113 Canada vs. 108 U.S.
o Childhood leukemia: 118 vs.110
o Kidney transplants 113 vs. 100
o Liver transplants 123 vs. 102
? The prescription drugs and medicines are far less expensive in Canada.
As for monopolistic tendencies, Rogers Cable (Toronto) charges $59 CDN for digital TV (including the box and access fee) and you get a choice from a 1,000 movies a month, up to 225 channels, up to 24 timeshifting channels and 16 HD channels. Whereas Time Warner Cable (Buffalo) its $52 US for Basic, Standard, plus 25 Digital Channels.Access up to 250 total channels, Movies on Demand, Free on Demand, Music Choice, and access to 8 High Definition Channels. Basically it appears they are equal and similar price comparisons are evident when you compare wireless and internet services.
As I pointed out before, the pre-launch iPhone outcry about how AT&T and Apple were going to rip us off was enormous. Turns out, much of the noise was for nothing primarily because the iPhone brought with it a need to re-structure the pricing plans due to the more ease of use, reduced support, services and infrastructure required to make it function. I would suggest that Rogers will provide a similar plan for Canada and that it will include unlimited data. It may or may not be priced the same but it will be close. What many haven't taken in consideration, much of the costs Canadians have had to bear building and supporting their wireless, cable and internet was borne by a low Canadian dollar. Now things are changing significantly, particularly in the past few months as their economy strengthens and yes the US weakens.
I can't remember exactly, but when the iTunes Music Store was introduced in Canada, the price per song was 99¢ CDN, however, their dollar was about 85¢US. Canada got a better deal. Sure their selection may be a little smaller and they had to wait much longer, but again (and it was commented here at AI) the pre-launch outcry was the same. Funny how in both cases, i.e., for the post-launch muted commentary for the iPhone and the iTunes (US/Canada), was in such contrast to the pre-launch screaming how "the world's coming to an end," because of the greedy likes of the corporate giants such as Apple and AT&T.
Rates for Canada are outrageous compared to elsewhere. Would love to have an iPhone but, do not see anyway I will be handing over a mortgage size payment to the Telco every month.
Data rates in the UK arn't that much cheaper. I'm interested to see what Apple are able to help offer over here.
. Hopefully Rogers will break the pattern and go for the gold and grab the iPhone. If the data rates dropped to a reasonable price, trust me plenty of people would use it and browse the web. .
We have higher tech healthcare, that's why the numbers are skewed. And in those other countries, as I saw on CNN the other night, in Canada, people spend about 20% of their money out of the system. The number is almost the same in England, France, etc.
I read somewhere, for example, that while canada had less than 100 CAT scanners (this was a few years ago, so both numbers might be higher), the US had over 5,000.
We also pay for the privilege of getting non life threatening operations without having to wait on a queue.
Of course the U.S. has more CAT scanners than Canada ? their population is 10 times the size of Canada's! And it's no wonder why Americans don't have to wait in line for operations: there's 48 million people who've been booted out of the line because they don't have health insurance. Canadians like myself might occasionally have to wait a bit for a medical procedure, but I can assure you that the vast majority of those who need an essential medical procedure get it quickly. As for medical care being "better" in the United States than in Canada, that sort of "we're number 1" arrogance drives me nuts. Does the United States have some great hospitals and doctors? Sure ? but so does Canada (we've been a world leader in the field of medical R&D for decades). Really, the difference in quality of care at U.S. and Canadian hospitals in negligible. In fact, one of the only differences it that visiting a Canadian hospital won't lead to you having to sell your house and declare bankruptcy. Oh, and Canada doesn't have a Martin Luther King, Jr. medical center; we don't put elderly patients in taxi cabs and dump them off in the projects because they can't afford medical care.
There seems to be a perception that Canadians pay more, however, if you exam the fine print (which is very difficult to compare individual service plans) it appears that the prices between Canadian and US services are quite similar.
For example, Rogers has unlimited incoming calls for free in some of their plans or an extra $10 CDN as an option. We can't seem to find that in the AT&T plans.
Canadian plans offer unlimited nights and weekends period. No need to for roll-over as is necessary with the 5000 minute offers.
A Canadian colleague apparently pays only for the time (to the second) for his calls which was offered in the early cell days. No one minute minimum.
Re Canadian vs US healthcare systems. Generally speaking Canadians pay less. Services while some Canadians criticise 'wait times' are overall better when evidenced by the lower mortality and morbidity rates reported under the Canadian system. The difference comes quite significant when you compare the have and have-not populations.
Interesting side bar here. During the SARs outbreak in Toronto a few years back, the Canadians reported nearly 100 deaths attributed to the virus. On the otherhand, the CDC reported over 450 cases with no deaths. On examining the data, it was shown that the CDC had changed the definition of the disease twice during the same period. Most mentionable was the exclusion of co-morbid diseases in patients being presented with so-called symptom of SARs. While Canada reported the death of a 99-year old male who died of acute respiratory symptoms compounded with cardiac arrest and diabetes, the CDC by definition would not include such a patient as a SARs candidate in the first place.
One other interesting finding was the overall reduction of the death and morbidity rates seen with the reduction of elective services with the closing of hospital doors to non-patients and non-emergency events.
Canadian plans offer unlimited nights and weekends period. No need to for roll-over as is necessary with the 5000 minute offers.
Are you referring to 5000 free nights and weekend minutes or is 5000 anytime minutes the average for Canadain plans? If it's the former, the night and weekend minutes don't carry over in the states, only the anytime minutes do.
John, Apple could also bluff Rogers with CDMA support if they didn't play ball. They could blacklist GSM and go the other route. Don't put it past Jobs to do this. I'm told he's VERY ruthless when it comes to negotiations.
But then they lose the whole 'World Phone' aspect of the device don't they? GSM covers pretty much everywhere. CDMA, is still a bit iffy, though it's getting better all the time.
How is this a Canadian phenomenon? The great majority of U.S. dealerships are closed on the weekends.
Not in the parts of the US I've lived in. Weekends (specifically Saturday) are referred to by car salesmen as "GAME DAY." It is the biggest selling day. At least in the Phoenix area.
Not in the parts of the US I've lived in. Weekends (specifically Saturday) are referred to by car salesmen as "GAME DAY." It is the biggest selling day. At least in the Phoenix area.
Yup, every place is open Saturday now, and more dealers are open on Sunday. Sucks if all you want to do is browse and get some pricing ideas without some annoying (or non-annoying, depending on which dealer you visit) salesman bugging you.
But then they lose the whole 'World Phone' aspect of the device don't they? GSM covers pretty much everywhere. CDMA, is still a bit iffy, though it's getting better all the time.
CDMA coverage is definitely a lot better around here. If you have Rogers, you can't even travel 10 minutes outside of the city, or you won't have service anymore.
Comments
3G is only available in the Greater Toronto Area anyways for now
UMTS (at HSDPA speeds) is rolling out in major urban centres right now with official launch scheduled for 1Q08.
Does anybody know if there is any infrastructural (is that a word?) reason for costs to be so high in Canada? I know it is a big country with a relatively small population, but I assume that Rogers would only be focusing on the population centers which would mitigate, to some extent, these costs.
How about the cold. Do the towers have to be constructed differently or with power-hungry deicers up there?
Or is it simply a case of a de facto monopoly that is trampling the people in Canada land?
No, no, bingo!
95% of the population is either in a major urban centre or within 100km of the US border so density is as high or higher then USA (even counting coverage of the major highways in-between everything), cold is not a factor, there you go:
The telecoms in Canada operate as a (silent, illegal) cartel—colluding to set fixed high prices because the regulatory agency doesn't smack them down and they are protected from foreign competition.
A question on Cdn. data rates: aret there more competitive rates for enterprise users ? Blackberries are just as popular in the home of RIM has in other major business centers .... are Canadian firms just paying more, or have their economies of scale brought prices down ?
Nah, data rates are just as screwed for corporate users. RIM has been complaining for years that the high data rates hinder their business.
free medical care (lets not talk about the quality) is just about the only thing better in canada and europe.
It's not free. they pay a much greater percentage of taxes than we do. VAT also brings the cost of products up more. We don't have taxes on each stage of production the way they do.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no more national wireless carriers in the US than here in Canada: Sprint, T-Mobil, AT&T and Cingular to Telus, Bell, and Rogers. I doubt that the extra carrier makes for less collusion. I suspect that the problem in Canada is that both the population and population density are lower than in the US.
Once you have the wireless infrastructure in place, 5M or 50M people can use it just the same (perhaps with minor upgrades), and to reach everyone, the wireless carriers have to spread their resources over a larger area. There is nothing more to the higher data prices.
Outside of the coastal megalopolises, the US is pretty sparsely populated. At least, most Canadians live in the southern part of the country.
How is this a Canadian phenomenon? The great majority of U.S. dealerships are closed on the weekends.
Some are. Not the great majority.
Besides, it's up to them.
Mediocre to Awful Service
Mediocre to Outrageous Pricing
Extremely Annoying and Smug Advertising.
I'm a customer. They (Rogers/Fido) are the only carriers in Canada who run on GSM, which I need for my UK phone when traveling to Canada.
They really are a bunch of utter gits, but it seems like they have little reason to change cause they get away with this bull. Hopefully they will get their arm twisted by Apple to offer better plans for iPhone customers, but I wouldn't hold my breath for any sort of "value for money" compared with the US and certainly not Europe/Japan.
I've never really understood Canada, Rogers is huge, it's the cable, TV, internet, phones... but it's Rogers.... That's like "Bob's Wireless" except his name is Roger. A better name wasn't available?
Maybe Rogers means something else in French?
Rogers Cablevision was founded by Ted Rogers in the 1960's, I believe. Rogers then acquired the long distance phone business of ATT Canada in the 1990's, and quickly introduced or bought a cell phone service.
Ted Rogers is still president of the company he founded and always looking for new ways to expand his business.
It's not free. they pay a much greater percentage of taxes than we do. VAT also brings the cost of products up more. We don't have taxes on each stage of production the way they do.
The USA actually spends more per capita on healthcare then just about anybody. Around 15% of GDP off the top of my head, against around 10% for the UK and 12% for Canada.
The USA actually spends more per capita on healthcare then just about anybody. Around 15% of GDP off the top of my head, against around 10% for the UK and 12% for Canada.
We have higher tech healthcare, that's why the numbers are skewed. And in those other countries, as I saw on CNN the other night, in Canada, people spend about 20% of their money out of the system. The number is almost the same in England, France, etc.
I read somewhere, for example, that while canada had less than 100 CAT scanners (this was a few years ago, so both numbers might be higher), the US had over 5,000.
We also pay for the privilege of getting non life threatening operations without having to wait on a queue.
A silly law.
That's much worse than in the States.
It seems the truth about other places is finally leaking out.
It is a law implemented to protect consumers.
How do you feel about having to switch to AT&T? Don't you want to have the iPhone and at the same time choose your own service provider?
We have higher tech healthcare, that's why the numbers are skewed. And in those other countries, as I saw on CNN the other night, in Canada, people spend about 20% of their money out of the system. The number is almost the same in England, France, etc.
I read somewhere, for example, that while canada had less than 100 CAT scanners (this was a few years ago, so both numbers might be higher), the US had over 5,000.
We also pay for the privilege of getting non life threatening operations without having to wait on a queue.
For your consideration:
? Average in-hospital treatment costs are nearly twice as much in the U.S. ($20,673 U.S. vs. $10,373)
? There are 9.9 qualified nurses per 1000 population in Canada as compared to 7.9 nurses per 1000 population in US (so you get a highly personalized care!)
? Overall satisfaction with the surgical experience is similar in both countries (85.3% U.S. and 83.5% Canada).
? The number of acute care hospital beds in Canada is 3.0 per 1000 population as compared to 2.8 in US
? Canadians have lower rates of in-hospital mortality (1.4% Canada vs. 2.2% U.S.).
? Administrative costs consume more of the total cost of treatment in the U.S. (38.2% of total costs in the U.S. vs. 31.7% in Canada).
? In-hospital cost of coronary artery bypass graft surgery (CABG) in the U.S. is 82.5 % higher in the U.S. than in Canada.
? The mortality rate for end-stage renal disease is 47% higher in the U.S. than in Canada. Adjusted monthly costs of treatment are $503 higher in the U.S.
? Fifty-seven percent (57%) of U.S. patients have reprocessed dialyzers used on them, compared with 0.0% of Canadian patients.
? Compared with the American counterparts, low-income Canadians have a significant survival.
? Advantage for 13 of the 15 kinds of cancer studied.
? One-year mortality rates following myocardial infarction are virtually identical for both countries (34.3% U.S. vs. 34.4% Canada).
? Canada has a higher rate of annual bone marrow transplants (0.89 per 100,000 population vs. 0.81per 100,000 in the U.S.)
? Canada has lower mortality rates for patients 65 and older three years after both low-mortality (18.52% U.S. vs. 15.31% Canada) and moderate-mortality (19.19% U.S. vs. 16.63% Canada) procedures.
? Survival rate for four disease condition is higher in Canada than in America:
o Colorectal cancer: 113 Canada vs. 108 U.S.
o Childhood leukemia: 118 vs.110
o Kidney transplants 113 vs. 100
o Liver transplants 123 vs. 102
? The prescription drugs and medicines are far less expensive in Canada.
As for monopolistic tendencies, Rogers Cable (Toronto) charges $59 CDN for digital TV (including the box and access fee) and you get a choice from a 1,000 movies a month, up to 225 channels, up to 24 timeshifting channels and 16 HD channels. Whereas Time Warner Cable (Buffalo) its $52 US for Basic, Standard, plus 25 Digital Channels.Access up to 250 total channels, Movies on Demand, Free on Demand, Music Choice, and access to 8 High Definition Channels. Basically it appears they are equal and similar price comparisons are evident when you compare wireless and internet services.
As I pointed out before, the pre-launch iPhone outcry about how AT&T and Apple were going to rip us off was enormous. Turns out, much of the noise was for nothing primarily because the iPhone brought with it a need to re-structure the pricing plans due to the more ease of use, reduced support, services and infrastructure required to make it function. I would suggest that Rogers will provide a similar plan for Canada and that it will include unlimited data. It may or may not be priced the same but it will be close. What many haven't taken in consideration, much of the costs Canadians have had to bear building and supporting their wireless, cable and internet was borne by a low Canadian dollar. Now things are changing significantly, particularly in the past few months as their economy strengthens and yes the US weakens.
I can't remember exactly, but when the iTunes Music Store was introduced in Canada, the price per song was 99¢ CDN, however, their dollar was about 85¢US. Canada got a better deal. Sure their selection may be a little smaller and they had to wait much longer, but again (and it was commented here at AI) the pre-launch outcry was the same. Funny how in both cases, i.e., for the post-launch muted commentary for the iPhone and the iTunes (US/Canada), was in such contrast to the pre-launch screaming how "the world's coming to an end," because of the greedy likes of the corporate giants such as Apple and AT&T.
Rates for Canada are outrageous compared to elsewhere. Would love to have an iPhone but, do not see anyway I will be handing over a mortgage size payment to the Telco every month.
Data rates in the UK arn't that much cheaper. I'm interested to see what Apple are able to help offer over here.
. Hopefully Rogers will break the pattern and go for the gold and grab the iPhone. If the data rates dropped to a reasonable price, trust me plenty of people would use it and browse the web. .
Rogers drop their rates
We have higher tech healthcare, that's why the numbers are skewed. And in those other countries, as I saw on CNN the other night, in Canada, people spend about 20% of their money out of the system. The number is almost the same in England, France, etc.
I read somewhere, for example, that while canada had less than 100 CAT scanners (this was a few years ago, so both numbers might be higher), the US had over 5,000.
We also pay for the privilege of getting non life threatening operations without having to wait on a queue.
Of course the U.S. has more CAT scanners than Canada ? their population is 10 times the size of Canada's! And it's no wonder why Americans don't have to wait in line for operations: there's 48 million people who've been booted out of the line because they don't have health insurance. Canadians like myself might occasionally have to wait a bit for a medical procedure, but I can assure you that the vast majority of those who need an essential medical procedure get it quickly. As for medical care being "better" in the United States than in Canada, that sort of "we're number 1" arrogance drives me nuts. Does the United States have some great hospitals and doctors? Sure ? but so does Canada (we've been a world leader in the field of medical R&D for decades). Really, the difference in quality of care at U.S. and Canadian hospitals in negligible. In fact, one of the only differences it that visiting a Canadian hospital won't lead to you having to sell your house and declare bankruptcy. Oh, and Canada doesn't have a Martin Luther King, Jr. medical center; we don't put elderly patients in taxi cabs and dump them off in the projects because they can't afford medical care.
For example, Rogers has unlimited incoming calls for free in some of their plans or an extra $10 CDN as an option. We can't seem to find that in the AT&T plans.
Canadian plans offer unlimited nights and weekends period. No need to for roll-over as is necessary with the 5000 minute offers.
A Canadian colleague apparently pays only for the time (to the second) for his calls which was offered in the early cell days. No one minute minimum.
One site in particular has outlined some hidden costs and conditions that perhaps all of us should be cognizant of: http://www.newnetworks.com/attwirelessfineprint.htm.
Re Canadian vs US healthcare systems. Generally speaking Canadians pay less. Services while some Canadians criticise 'wait times' are overall better when evidenced by the lower mortality and morbidity rates reported under the Canadian system. The difference comes quite significant when you compare the have and have-not populations.
Interesting side bar here. During the SARs outbreak in Toronto a few years back, the Canadians reported nearly 100 deaths attributed to the virus. On the otherhand, the CDC reported over 450 cases with no deaths. On examining the data, it was shown that the CDC had changed the definition of the disease twice during the same period. Most mentionable was the exclusion of co-morbid diseases in patients being presented with so-called symptom of SARs. While Canada reported the death of a 99-year old male who died of acute respiratory symptoms compounded with cardiac arrest and diabetes, the CDC by definition would not include such a patient as a SARs candidate in the first place.
One other interesting finding was the overall reduction of the death and morbidity rates seen with the reduction of elective services with the closing of hospital doors to non-patients and non-emergency events.
Canadian plans offer unlimited nights and weekends period. No need to for roll-over as is necessary with the 5000 minute offers.
Are you referring to 5000 free nights and weekend minutes or is 5000 anytime minutes the average for Canadain plans? If it's the former, the night and weekend minutes don't carry over in the states, only the anytime minutes do.
John, Apple could also bluff Rogers with CDMA support if they didn't play ball. They could blacklist GSM and go the other route. Don't put it past Jobs to do this. I'm told he's VERY ruthless when it comes to negotiations.
But then they lose the whole 'World Phone' aspect of the device don't they? GSM covers pretty much everywhere. CDMA, is still a bit iffy, though it's getting better all the time.
How is this a Canadian phenomenon? The great majority of U.S. dealerships are closed on the weekends.
Not in the parts of the US I've lived in. Weekends (specifically Saturday) are referred to by car salesmen as "GAME DAY." It is the biggest selling day. At least in the Phoenix area.
Data rates in the UK arn't that much cheaper. I'm interested to see what Apple are able to help offer over here.
Yes they are. £7.50 for unlimited (2GB is apparently fair use) on T-Mobile. I believe some of the others also have flat rate packages like that.
Amorya
Not in the parts of the US I've lived in. Weekends (specifically Saturday) are referred to by car salesmen as "GAME DAY." It is the biggest selling day. At least in the Phoenix area.
Yup, every place is open Saturday now, and more dealers are open on Sunday. Sucks if all you want to do is browse and get some pricing ideas without some annoying (or non-annoying, depending on which dealer you visit) salesman bugging you.
But then they lose the whole 'World Phone' aspect of the device don't they? GSM covers pretty much everywhere. CDMA, is still a bit iffy, though it's getting better all the time.
CDMA coverage is definitely a lot better around here. If you have Rogers, you can't even travel 10 minutes outside of the city, or you won't have service anymore.