When will a MacBook Pro "feel" like a MacPro?
Hello,
I am a current owner of a Mac Pro 2 x 2.66ghz and would like to get the opinion of this board. I am a coder and I work with video and am designing a internal workflow app for a long time client. During the course of the day I jump between pathfinder, photoshop, xcode as well a half dozen other apps. In that same workflow I copy over 50 megs files on a regular basis and compile my app which is become larger and larger.
I had a dual g5 powermac and switched to the first macbook pro (intel). I found the macbook pro to be slightly sluggish (launching apps) and the mem. limit back then (2 gigs) was a problem (i now see they have a 4 gig mem limit but I have 6 gigs in my machine.)
I always found the macbook pro's hard drive (5400 never tried a 7200) to be slowish. (relative to my use) I also really disliked the bus speed which I THINK is the root of my "sluggish" feelings... (unless i am mistaken the G5 and the Mac Pro's busses demolish the current bus speeds of even a santa rosa macbook pro.)
So my question is, with Peryn coming up (faster bus, more then 4 gig?? mem limit) does anyone think that a Peryn machine will "feel" as fast as my current Mac Pro which I am really happy with?
I know there will be Mac Pro that comes out after that blows away the peryn but I am willing to stake the mac pro 2 x 2.66 as a base speed that will hold me for a couple of years if I can truly has a portable machine that results in very little compromise.
As you might has guessed I am trying to have one mac that can do both but after going thru a 15inch mac book pro intel and the 17" mac book pro intel, as well as maxing out the ram I feel that (understandably) notebooks are not for me but I am also hoping that perhaps once peryn arrives, there might be a portable that can feel as good (speed-wise) as my current mac pro.
Thoughts?
thank you.
I am a current owner of a Mac Pro 2 x 2.66ghz and would like to get the opinion of this board. I am a coder and I work with video and am designing a internal workflow app for a long time client. During the course of the day I jump between pathfinder, photoshop, xcode as well a half dozen other apps. In that same workflow I copy over 50 megs files on a regular basis and compile my app which is become larger and larger.
I had a dual g5 powermac and switched to the first macbook pro (intel). I found the macbook pro to be slightly sluggish (launching apps) and the mem. limit back then (2 gigs) was a problem (i now see they have a 4 gig mem limit but I have 6 gigs in my machine.)
I always found the macbook pro's hard drive (5400 never tried a 7200) to be slowish. (relative to my use) I also really disliked the bus speed which I THINK is the root of my "sluggish" feelings... (unless i am mistaken the G5 and the Mac Pro's busses demolish the current bus speeds of even a santa rosa macbook pro.)
So my question is, with Peryn coming up (faster bus, more then 4 gig?? mem limit) does anyone think that a Peryn machine will "feel" as fast as my current Mac Pro which I am really happy with?
I know there will be Mac Pro that comes out after that blows away the peryn but I am willing to stake the mac pro 2 x 2.66 as a base speed that will hold me for a couple of years if I can truly has a portable machine that results in very little compromise.
As you might has guessed I am trying to have one mac that can do both but after going thru a 15inch mac book pro intel and the 17" mac book pro intel, as well as maxing out the ram I feel that (understandably) notebooks are not for me but I am also hoping that perhaps once peryn arrives, there might be a portable that can feel as good (speed-wise) as my current mac pro.
Thoughts?
thank you.
Comments
Well first of all, you're dealing with two different types of processors (Mac Pro vs. MacBook Pro). The Mac Pro has a TWO 2.66GHz dual-core processors. The 4-core processor for mobile computing isn't quite here yet. It's on an Intel roadmap, but I don't know when it's slated to arrive.
Second, you really can't complain about disk speed in the MacBook Pro since there are so many better options and drives for the Mac Pro. And the current MacBook Pro, unlike the Mac Pro, doesn't have easy hard drive access so it's not easy to swap out drives. But then again, that's the nature of the mobile space.
Those are 2 things I can think of right of the bat. I am sure others will tick off some more points...
Wow. Where to start?
Well first of all, you're dealing with two different types of processors (Mac Pro vs. MacBook Pro). The Mac Pro has a TWO 2.66GHz dual-core processors. The 4-core processor for mobile computing isn't quite here yet. It's on an Intel roadmap, but I don't know when it's slated to arrive.
Second, you really can't complain about disk speed in the MacBook Pro since there are so many better options and drives for the Mac Pro. And the current MacBook Pro, unlike the Mac Pro, doesn't have easy hard drive access so it's not easy to swap out drives. But then again, that's the nature of the mobile space.
Those are 2 things I can think of right of the bat. I am sure others will tick off some more points...
eek. I forgot to add the whole 4/2 core stuff. I understand that part. Sorry.
I think if apple started making mac book pros that supported booting from ESATA that would go a long way as worst case I could use the same drive from my mac pro and plug it into (via a esata case) to the mac book pro.. but alas.... nope. they make esata for the macbook pro but no booting.
The chips will always benefit from the bigger cases because it's the nature of the technology to need more power and produce more heat the better the performance becomes.
I love my MacBook Pro and it's snappy for everything I use it for, but it won't replace my Mac Pro at any point in the next decade.. probably 2 or 3 more until the potential is even visible.
As for when will chips in laptops be as good as current Mac Pro standard chips... I'd say 1.5-2 years in real performance measures.
I really think this comes down to bus speed once you take away the extra cores.
But those days are gone. Today the iMac is pretty much the MacBook Pro internally - with faster harddisks even.
A bit strange when you think about it. The 'pro' portable machine is merely as powerful as an off-the-mill consumer desktop...
But it says it all. And gives you your answer:
If you feel your programming environment would be OK on an iMac, then a MacBook Pro will serve you just as well. If you want more power than an iMac can offer, then the Mac Pro is your only choice.
Apple is not in the business of portable desktops; but then again, those aren't really laptops either.
Keep in mind that a full-blown 8-core system on full load uses about 250W of power for CPUs, GPU and HDs. No portable could offer that much power. And even if they could, components would be too densely packed to ever cool it down enough.
As long as CPU manufacturers keep pushing the boundary of CPU cores and GHz as far as desktop cooling can keep up with, laptops will always play second fiddle.
The days of 'pro' laptops having 'pro' power are - unfortunately - gone.
The next best thing in the future will be superfast Internet connections where laptops will be used as a mobile virtual frontend for your desktop power house at home.
--
Edit:
Dang, Myst beat me to it!
But exactly my point. It's sad to think that there was a time when pro portable and pro desktop were almost identical. But with the proliferation of cores and the next OS X making good use of multi-cores, 8-cores will always be much better than 2 cores. And 4 core laptops chips are only slated for second half of 2008, or a year from today. By which time we probably have 12 or 16 core desktops. Point is: laptops won't catch up in a while.
On a personal note:
I've always ever owned Apple laptops for the last 10 years. But because of the drifting apart of power, I think I will go with my first ever desktop soon. MacBook Pros are just not pro enough anymore - as your only computer - if you need heavy lifting computing.
WorkBook Pro would kick ass and I would buy one in a sec.
It's possible that a MBP a year from now might begin to close the gap from last year's MP. You'd have to skip the Penryn MBP and wait for the new 45nm Nehalem chipset. That'll have 6MB shared L2 cache and have speeds over 3 GHz.
But then you have to look at the processor, and the updated internal system the Mac Pro will have by then. It'll still lag behind the desktop model.
But then you have to look at the processor, and the updated internal system the Mac Pro will have by then. It'll still lag behind the desktop model.
I know that. I mentioned that in my OP.
It's possible that a MBP a year from now might begin to close the gap from last year's MP. You'd have to skip the Penryn MBP and wait for the new 45nm Nehalem chipset. That'll have 6MB shared L2 cache and have speeds over 3 GHz.
Ahh. Interesting (and a bummer) so it looks like to long away for me.
I may just buy another mac pro since 2 locations take 90% of my time (less need for notebook) and then buy a 12" nano-book when they come out for those times I really need a notebook for travel etc.. (and just not even try to get any of my "real work" done on it.)
Man o man, would I love to see a portable desktop from Apple. Think along the lines of a 19 or 20" MacBookPro, with quad proc and up to 8gig ram. Dual HD RAID. This would kick serious ass for pros who need a desktop in a mobile environment. This is not an airplane laptop. This is not your dad's laptop either.
WorkBook Pro would kick ass and I would buy one in a sec.
Although I would be happy with 4 core that drops to 2 core if its not plugged in.
Edit. Leave out the LCD and just call it the MacBook Slab.
've always ever owned Apple laptops for the last 10 years. But because of the drifting apart of power, I think I will go with my first ever desktop soon. MacBook Pros are just not pro enough anymore - as your only computer - if you need heavy lifting computing.
Agreed. (and I am just speaking for myself. I realize it is fine for most folks.)
Edit: I felt a world of diff between the mac book pro and the mac pro when i switched.
I would say "sanppier" but you know that word does not play well here
Neat.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks so.
When you have ultra fast wireless access to computing and data storage and SSD for quick start ups. When your MBP is primarily a UI front end for applications living in a compute cloud somewhere. Does it matter how fast the MBP itself is if you can remote desktop to a 256 core XServe attached to petabyte of storage from anywhere there's a WAN? Don't expect this anytime soon though.
When will a MBP feel like a 2007 MP? Nehalem + 6GB RAM + 128GB SSD + eSATA ExpressCard + eSata external drive. Of course that's going to be as pricey as a 2009 MP...
Vinea
Hello,
I always found the macbook pro's hard drive (5400 never tried a 7200) to be slowish. (relative to my use) I also really disliked the bus speed which I THINK is the root of my "sluggish" feelings... (unless i am mistaken the G5 and the Mac Pro's busses demolish the current bus speeds of even a santa rosa macbook pro.)
Your G5 is between 800 and 1250 MHz Frontside bus, the Mac Pro is 1333 Mhz, and your first MBP would have been 667 MHz, current is 800, and next is close to the Mac Pro. The biggest thing it limits is shuffling memory around, so I guess PS would see the most difference?
Slow application startup is pretty much to do with disk. The 7200 should help and FW800 or eSATA external 10000 rpm would likely be even quicker.
So my question is, with Peryn coming up (faster bus, more then 4 gig?? mem limit) does anyone think that a Peryn machine will "feel" as fast as my current Mac Pro which I am really happy with?
Can you get to an Apple store and try one? I think a real world test will be the only way to be sure that it's right for you.
Best of luck,
Martin.
The one I'm writing this on:
Model Name
Model Identifier
Processor Name
Processor Speed
Number Of Processors
Total Number Of Cores
L2 Cache (per processor)
Memory
Bus Speed
Boot ROM Version
SMC Version
is doing great on the 23"
Chipset Model
Type
Bus
VRAM (Total)
Vendor
Device ID
Revision ID
Displays:
Cinema HD Display:
Display Type
Resolution
Depth
Core Image
Main Display
Mirror
Online
Quartz Extreme
Rotation
BUT, the only thing I can do to upgrade it would be jump to Mac Pro....
Your G5 is between 800 and 1250 MHz Frontside bus, the Mac Pro is 1333 Mhz, and your first MBP would have been 667 MHz, current is 800, and next is close to the Mac Pro. The biggest thing it limits is shuffling memory around, so I guess PS would see the most difference?
Slow application startup is pretty much to do with disk. The 7200 should help and FW800 or eSATA external 10000 rpm would likely be even quicker.
Can you get to an Apple store and try one? I think a real world test will be the only way to be sure that it's right for you.
Best of luck,
Martin.
thank you very much. you put the numbers in a way that made it much clearer.
I would kill for esata to just become standard.
The thing about testing in a store though is my whole tool-chain of apps and my settings and files etc...
I may bribe the first peryn macbook pro owner I run across in the future and install my stuff on his as a new user and pay him for a couple hours of down time on his end..