Did you not use the fact that there was a brutal murder in Harry Potter and he was abused to justify that it wasn't for kids?
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat
Here is Prey's storyline:
Prey has a serious, dark story based on authentic Cherokee mythology. The game dives into emotional territory rarely explored by similar games as themes of tremendous sacrifice and responsibility surface throughout the story.
Tommy is a Cherokee garage mechanic, refuting his heritage and undecided about his next step in life. His world comes to a halt when an extraterrestrial crisis forces him to awaken spiritual powers from his long-forgotten birthright. Abducted with his people to a menacing mothership orbiting Earth, he sets out to save himself, his girlfriend, and eventually, the entire planet.
Wow, that's basically Dostoevsky.
It's pretty deep huh. It has a lot of similarities to real life I think you'll find though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat
Again you show a fairly infantile understanding of maturity and even brutality.
No in other words?
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat
Are the books marketed at children? The audience for the first book was definitely a young person, 11-13. Well, the kids who read that one at 11-13 are now 21-23. People age and grow up.
Well, I can see a difference in the presentation of the books as they progress so I could believe that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat
Also, it is funny that you take my gripe that a handful of childish elements carried through at face value but refuse to take my discussion of the text as mature. It is almost like you have an idea of what you want it to be and are not at all interested in actually thinking about it.
It seems that's what you tried to do. You are reading it as though it's a book suitable for adults because that's what you want it to be. Maybe the later stories are written in a mature way, I decided after the first couple that it wasn't for me. I'm not keen on the whole story-line involving a school of teenage wizards, which I presume it's still about but hey maybe I'll find a spare moment between playing senselessly violent video games to check out the later stories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat
If you do not know what I meant by their being connected to the real world then it is obvious that you have not even read them, making your opinion even more worthless than it was before.
I know exactly what you meant but you can apply that to anything, even to my cool Cherokee alien game.
Do people forget that they are children's books? There should be absolutely nothing remotely interesting about teenage wizards to grown ups. I can't believe how many adults are into this stuff. I even watched a couple of the movies because of it and I was just amazed at how this level of interest is even possible. The acting in the movies is terrible and the stories are very obviously aimed at children.
Harry Potter is a bildungsroman, and this suites both youth and adults. The novel is especially relevant for youth because they can most closely relate to the development of the characters as they themselves are developing in much the same way. But this does not make the Harry Potter series exclusively a kids book. I think most adults will understand that most 11 year olds have a certain maturity level that is somewhat lower than when they are say...17.
The imagination shown in the world of Harry Potter is incredible. The imagination is not at all an issue of maturity. Both adults and youth will agree that the magic representative is both fun and interesting. And JK Rowling set clear limits and boundaries on magic so as to make it realistic and to allow for great plot and tension. There is nothing "childish" or "immature" about lighthearted imagination and fun, which the Harry Potter series, primarily the first few books is full of. Are adults really such prudes that they cannot relate to anything that doesn't have to do with "mature" fun? But my argument does not break here because there is a dark side to the Harry Potter series that is very mature and very interesting. JK Rowling has said that death is the main theme of the series. This doesn't seem "childish" or "immature" to me. The books contain moral complexity (i.e. the three trio characters as they are "mischievous", Snape, or Dumbledore). Moral complexity is something that is distinctively characteristic of adult literature. And heavy discrimination, pain, suffering, and murder also don't seem very childish and immature.
The Harry Potter series is so great because of it's balance of light and dark. The first books are much lighter than the last books (which are very dark), but the light parts in the first few books laid the foundation for the last few books.
The fact is, you really cannot glean anything from the movie except basic plot. You don't get good character development, you miss virtually ALL of the interesting subplot, the plot is oversimplified, and the imagination is limited. The movie can only be good for those who understand and appreciate the books. For those who haven't read the books, the movies offer nothing more than entertainment value. And yes, the acting in the first few movies is pretty awful, but it is getting continually better, and the bad acting can be forgiven in the early movies if and only if you already know and understand the characters and their dynamics.
Regardless, in a 24 hour period, 72 million books have been sold. Not to mention that many people borrow the book from someone else to read it. I'm sorry, but your argument that Harry Potter is exclusively a children's book is incorrect. The most recent book was even published in a separate "adult edition" in the UK. And the most recent movies are PG-13, implying that a certain level of maturity. And do you never what PG-13 movies because 13 year olds are also mature enough to view them? I didn't think so.
Did you not use the fact that there was a brutal murder in Harry Potter and he was abused to justify that it wasn't for kids?
Yes, and his parents' murder was brutal and quite cruel. I said nothing about it being gory or characterized by physical violence. Brutality is about more than physical violence. And I also talked about being an orphan abused by relatives.
Quote:
It seems that's what you tried to do. You are reading it as though it's a book suitable for adults because that's what you want it to be. Maybe the later stories are written in a mature way, I decided after the first couple that it wasn't for me. I'm not keen on the whole story-line involving a school of teenage wizards, which I presume it's still about but hey maybe I'll find a spare moment between playing senselessly violent video games to check out the later stories.
What makes a book "suitable for adults"? Chainsaws? Guitar solos? Ninjas?
Why not try shutting the hell up and going away?
Quote:
I know exactly what you meant but you can apply that to anything, even to my cool Cherokee alien game.
Awesome. Keep that in mind next time you want to threadshit for no reason.
Regardless, in a 24 hour period, 72 million books have been sold. That is 24% of the world -- roughly one quarter of the world. Last time I checked, far less than 24% of the world is between the ages of 8 and 18, and that only represents the sales of the initial 24-hour period. Not to mention that many people borrow the book from someone else to read it. I'm sorry, but your argument that Harry Potter is exclusively a children's book is incorrect. The most recent book was even published in a separate "adult edition" in the UK. And the most recent movies are PG-13, implying that a certain level of maturity. And do you never what PG-13 movies because 13 year olds are also mature enough to view them? I didn't think so.
There's only 288 million people in your world? Wow, sounds nice. Can I move there?
There's only 288 million people in your world? Wow, sounds nice. Can I move there?
Oppps... sorry -- I was confusing stats. My bad.
Anyways... my point was that a lot of adults read the books.
Anyways, it's estimated that roughly 25%-30% have read at least one of the books. (~400million books [~7% of the worlds population] sold + people share books within family -- the average family size is 4, not everybody in the family reads the book, but libraries get a lot of reads per signal copy)
Comments
Physical violence = maturity?
Did you not use the fact that there was a brutal murder in Harry Potter and he was abused to justify that it wasn't for kids?
Here is Prey's storyline:
Prey has a serious, dark story based on authentic Cherokee mythology. The game dives into emotional territory rarely explored by similar games as themes of tremendous sacrifice and responsibility surface throughout the story.
Tommy is a Cherokee garage mechanic, refuting his heritage and undecided about his next step in life. His world comes to a halt when an extraterrestrial crisis forces him to awaken spiritual powers from his long-forgotten birthright. Abducted with his people to a menacing mothership orbiting Earth, he sets out to save himself, his girlfriend, and eventually, the entire planet.
Wow, that's basically Dostoevsky.
Again you show a fairly infantile understanding of maturity and even brutality.
No in other words?
Are the books marketed at children? The audience for the first book was definitely a young person, 11-13. Well, the kids who read that one at 11-13 are now 21-23. People age and grow up.
Well, I can see a difference in the presentation of the books as they progress so I could believe that.
Also, it is funny that you take my gripe that a handful of childish elements carried through at face value but refuse to take my discussion of the text as mature. It is almost like you have an idea of what you want it to be and are not at all interested in actually thinking about it.
It seems that's what you tried to do. You are reading it as though it's a book suitable for adults because that's what you want it to be. Maybe the later stories are written in a mature way, I decided after the first couple that it wasn't for me. I'm not keen on the whole story-line involving a school of teenage wizards, which I presume it's still about but hey maybe I'll find a spare moment between playing senselessly violent video games to check out the later stories.
If you do not know what I meant by their being connected to the real world then it is obvious that you have not even read them, making your opinion even more worthless than it was before.
I know exactly what you meant but you can apply that to anything, even to my cool Cherokee alien game.
Do people forget that they are children's books? There should be absolutely nothing remotely interesting about teenage wizards to grown ups. I can't believe how many adults are into this stuff. I even watched a couple of the movies because of it and I was just amazed at how this level of interest is even possible. The acting in the movies is terrible and the stories are very obviously aimed at children.
Harry Potter is a bildungsroman, and this suites both youth and adults. The novel is especially relevant for youth because they can most closely relate to the development of the characters as they themselves are developing in much the same way. But this does not make the Harry Potter series exclusively a kids book. I think most adults will understand that most 11 year olds have a certain maturity level that is somewhat lower than when they are say...17.
The imagination shown in the world of Harry Potter is incredible. The imagination is not at all an issue of maturity. Both adults and youth will agree that the magic representative is both fun and interesting. And JK Rowling set clear limits and boundaries on magic so as to make it realistic and to allow for great plot and tension. There is nothing "childish" or "immature" about lighthearted imagination and fun, which the Harry Potter series, primarily the first few books is full of. Are adults really such prudes that they cannot relate to anything that doesn't have to do with "mature" fun? But my argument does not break here because there is a dark side to the Harry Potter series that is very mature and very interesting. JK Rowling has said that death is the main theme of the series. This doesn't seem "childish" or "immature" to me. The books contain moral complexity (i.e. the three trio characters as they are "mischievous", Snape, or Dumbledore). Moral complexity is something that is distinctively characteristic of adult literature. And heavy discrimination, pain, suffering, and murder also don't seem very childish and immature.
The Harry Potter series is so great because of it's balance of light and dark. The first books are much lighter than the last books (which are very dark), but the light parts in the first few books laid the foundation for the last few books.
The fact is, you really cannot glean anything from the movie except basic plot. You don't get good character development, you miss virtually ALL of the interesting subplot, the plot is oversimplified, and the imagination is limited. The movie can only be good for those who understand and appreciate the books. For those who haven't read the books, the movies offer nothing more than entertainment value. And yes, the acting in the first few movies is pretty awful, but it is getting continually better, and the bad acting can be forgiven in the early movies if and only if you already know and understand the characters and their dynamics.
Regardless, in a 24 hour period, 72 million books have been sold. Not to mention that many people borrow the book from someone else to read it. I'm sorry, but your argument that Harry Potter is exclusively a children's book is incorrect. The most recent book was even published in a separate "adult edition" in the UK. And the most recent movies are PG-13, implying that a certain level of maturity. And do you never what PG-13 movies because 13 year olds are also mature enough to view them? I didn't think so.
Did you not use the fact that there was a brutal murder in Harry Potter and he was abused to justify that it wasn't for kids?
Yes, and his parents' murder was brutal and quite cruel. I said nothing about it being gory or characterized by physical violence. Brutality is about more than physical violence. And I also talked about being an orphan abused by relatives.
It seems that's what you tried to do. You are reading it as though it's a book suitable for adults because that's what you want it to be. Maybe the later stories are written in a mature way, I decided after the first couple that it wasn't for me. I'm not keen on the whole story-line involving a school of teenage wizards, which I presume it's still about but hey maybe I'll find a spare moment between playing senselessly violent video games to check out the later stories.
What makes a book "suitable for adults"? Chainsaws? Guitar solos? Ninjas?
Why not try shutting the hell up and going away?
I know exactly what you meant but you can apply that to anything, even to my cool Cherokee alien game.
Awesome. Keep that in mind next time you want to threadshit for no reason.
Regardless, in a 24 hour period, 72 million books have been sold. That is 24% of the world -- roughly one quarter of the world. Last time I checked, far less than 24% of the world is between the ages of 8 and 18, and that only represents the sales of the initial 24-hour period. Not to mention that many people borrow the book from someone else to read it. I'm sorry, but your argument that Harry Potter is exclusively a children's book is incorrect. The most recent book was even published in a separate "adult edition" in the UK. And the most recent movies are PG-13, implying that a certain level of maturity. And do you never what PG-13 movies because 13 year olds are also mature enough to view them? I didn't think so.
There's only 288 million people in your world? Wow, sounds nice. Can I move there?
There's only 288 million people in your world? Wow, sounds nice. Can I move there?
Oppps... sorry -- I was confusing stats. My bad.
Anyways... my point was that a lot of adults read the books.
Anyways, it's estimated that roughly 25%-30% have read at least one of the books. (~400million books [~7% of the worlds population] sold + people share books within family -- the average family size is 4, not everybody in the family reads the book, but libraries get a lot of reads per signal copy)