There is so much FUD in your post, and I shouldn't be responding to this crap at all but I'm going to point out one fact: Dell had to lower margins in a vain attempt to boost sales yet they are still falling faster than your trousers at a massage parlor in a Singapore harbour.
Get your facts right. Dell is still the top seller in the US market with 4.8 million PCs and a market share of 28.4% for the June 2007 quarter. See http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32980/113/
Now, if only Apple would lower its prices to do as well as Dell, we would all be a lot happier. But, for major changes to happen, we need a new CEO and board of directors for Apple.
Wow, ouragan, you sure have an axe to grind. Have you and your physchiatrist discussed these feelings of rage? Are you on anti-anger manangement medication yet?
I don't have the time right now, on this beautiful Saturday morning, to address all of your FUD and non-statistically supported claims but here's one you didn't mention. As a dual platform user every day (That's everyday, not some time but everyday), there is no price I would put on the superiority of OS X over XP/SP2. (When Vista finally works, we'll address it). [...] With the "overpriced" Mac, I just turn it on and compute--ahhhhhhhhh! On those occasions that I need to download an update, I can do so immediately, or not. I also don't have to always reboot ---cringe-- I spend half my wintel life rebooting. This word makes my palms sweat and gives me the shakes--"NO, not another reboot--anything but that, please! AS to Mac required reboots, they are far fewer, quicker and less frequent than on my Sony XP unit. I can not put a price on this operational difference but whatever it is, I'd pay twice the price for a Mac if I had to, just to be able to use OS X and be free of the never-ending mandatory security maintenance required in XP land. With a Mac, I compute; with a Wintel unit, I work and much of the time I -cringe- reboot.
It's too nice a day to address all of your deep seated and pathologic hatred for Mac and SJ.
You'll have to agree with me that there is a wasted opportunity to expand the Mac OS X market share, given its superior user experience.
I also use Windows XP and recognize some of the shortcomings you describe. But they are not as terrible as you describe for, otherwise, no one would be using Windows XP.
Most commentators agree with you that Windows Vista is not all that it should be. Nevertheless, 60 million copies have already been sold, dwarfing the 25 million Mac user base (see http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33107/118/).
Finally, for your self-righteous accusations, please get the facts before you discuss a -- FINANCIAL -- report. Teenagers are good at hurling accusations and insults at people they disagree with. Mature adults, over the age of 20-25 years old, look at the facts, the numbers, and try to convince others with arguments based on reason and a discussion of facts and numbers.
In the future, please avoid personal attacks, especially when they are based on nothing. Share your passion for the Mac, not your hatred of whomever doesn't think exactly like you.
You should not consider options trading until you have taken a formal course and practiced with fake money first. You can lose your shirt, your house, your dog and god forbid your Mac (especially on a day like today), if you don't know what you're doing. Having said that, learning how to read options trading in a given stock can help predict impending big up or down movements in a stock. There will be a lot of option traders drinking heavily tonight.
Hopefully these corrections eliminate some of the wild-ass speculators with little experience who just add more volatility to the stock.
^^^^ This guy (ouragan) sounds almost exactly like that other recent hypersensitive poster that got whupped for trying to start fights with everyone on the board.
When I said by what measurement I meant an unbiased and balanced assessment of how Apple operates. A personal grudge and dubious examples do not qualify.
Its fine for Windows to be on a billion computers by the end of the year. Apple does not need to compete with those number to be a healthy company. For most of those computers Windows is the most expensive feature. Apple's value is greater than every other computer hardware maker.
So there are no sales numbers at this point you can throw out to diminish Apple's accomplishments.
Apple is a 20,000 employee international company with a 30 year history. Apple is not a one man company, nor an overnight success.
With so much attention focused on an egocentric, tyranical and abusive CEO, taking a $650 million illegal stock option bonus for 2006, it is easy to forget the real accomplishments of Apple engineers and the hard work of every other Apple employee.
As this is a discussion of the FINANCIAL report of Apple's June 2007 quarter, I've tried to put numbers in perspective and explain Apple's current undervalue and failures in the market place.
With everyone here agreeing how great Mac OS X computers are, how does anyone else explain the poor 5.6% US market share and the overall 2.6% worldwide market share?
I await your explanations and look forward to learning something new every day.
In the mean time, everyone should read the following account of an iPhone buyer and his realization of how expensive the iPhone really is (see http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33127/128/).
Now, if Apple is not about to repeat its pattern of pricing itself out of the market, I wonder what they think they are doing?
Apple is a 20,000 employee international company with a 30 year history. Apple is not a one man company, nor an overnight success.
With so much attention focused on an egocentric, tyranical and abusive CEO, taking a $650 million illegal stock option bonus for 2006, it is easy to forget the real accomplishments of Apple engineers and the hard work of every other Apple employee.
As this is a discussion of the FINANCIAL report of Apple's June 2007 quarter, I've tried to put numbers in perspective and explain Apple's current undervalue and failures in the market place.
With everyone here agreeing how great Mac OS X computers are, how does anyone else explain the poor 5.6% US market share and the overall 2.6% worldwide market share?
I await your explanations and look forward to learning something new every day.
In the mean time, everyone should read the following account of an iPhone buyer and his realization of how expensive the iPhone really is (see http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33127/128/).
Now, if Apple is not about to repeat its pattern of pricing itself out of the market, I wonder what they think they are doing?
With these very pointed and personal attacks on Apple and especially Steve Jobs, are we to assume you are a disgruntled ex-Apple, Inc. or Apple Store employee? You certainly sound like one.
^^^^ This guy (ouragan) sounds almost exactly like that other recent hypersensitive poster that got whupped for trying to start fights with everyone on the board.
I'm trying to discuss issues, not personal attacks. How about doing the same and coming up with numbers when discussing a FINANCIAL report?
I'm trying to discuss issues, not personal attacks. How about doing the same and coming up with numbers when discussing a FINANCIAL report?
You don't call this a personal attack? Who's taking the crazy pills here?
Quote:
With so much attention focused on an egocentric, tyranical and abusive CEO, taking a $650 million illegal stock option bonus for 2006, it is easy to forget the real accomplishments of Apple engineers and the hard work of every other Apple employee.
With these very pointed and personal attacks on Apple and especially Steve Jobs, are we to assume you are a disgruntled ex-Apple, Inc. or Apple Store employee? You certainly sound like one.
No, but you can say that I am a disgruntled Nortel investor who lost money in a company where the CEO fled with a $170 million bonus based on flawed accounting.
If you haven't followed the Nortel story, it's a Stock Exchange fraud where everyone from directors to analysts advised investors that the sky was the limit with Nortel. The sky came falling down, the fraud was exposed and we are still waiting for the SEC to indict John Roth, the former Nortel CEO.
The Apple story with the illegal $650 million bonus to the CEO and close to $100 million paid to 4 Vice Presidents for 2006 is eerily similar to the Nortel debacle.
You should measure the decisions of a CEO and the decisions of a board of directors by what is needed for the greater good of a company. Concerning Apple, is there anyone who believes that it was for the greater good of Apple that the board of directors approved the payment of $750 millions to 5 individuals, in part through illegal and back dated stock options?
The Apple stock option fraud is a story that will not go away.
Investors will have to pay for their foolishness and the Mac community of users and programmers is smaller than it could be if prices were more reasonable and Apple better managed.
Sorry, if you disagree.
Once again, this is a FINANCIAL discussion, not a debate on whether or not we like Mac OS X, as we all do.
The $650 million was his pay for 10 years, basically, and I don't see any problem with it. If you are so shell shocked by Nortel, then you won't believe any financial report from any company - so why invest in stocks at all?
I lost a couple years pay in Nortel stock, as well as my job (after 5 years or so of layoffs) - Nortel was not worth the $87 then and I knew it, and Apple is worth $165 now and I know it. The P/E ratio of Nortel at its peak was astronomical, Apple has $15 billion in the bank and a 30 P/E - why are you so worried about the company?
With everyone here agreeing how great Mac OS X computers are, how does anyone else explain the poor 5.6% US market share and the overall 2.6% worldwide market share?
The subtext of bringing up Apple's market share is your implication that Apple would have a higher market share if the prices were lower. We've been round and round this topic on this forum. But the reasons for it are numerous and too complex to blame on any one factor.
In the long run what does that matter when Apple makes more money per computer sold than both Dell and HP. Do you want to sell more for less profit or make more profit per sale? Looking at the quarterly stats tells the story.
The other problem is that the computer market is old and slowing down, while other markets, namely mp3 players and smartphones are new and growing.
1) The May 2007 MacBook doesn't use the new Intel Santa Rosa platform, but slower, cheaper previous generation components. And yet, MacBooks are easily $100 to $150 more expensive than the Wintel competition using faster Santa Rosa components.
Apple was never competitive, going back to the 1986 to 1990 period when it insisted on a 50% profit margin on the sale of MacPlus computers. Apple had a good 35% of the market and felt that they were making a better computer than DOS powered IBM compatible clones.
We all know how that story played out. A few years ago, Dell reduced its profit margin from 22% to 19% to become the leader in education sales. Guess what? They left Apple in the dust, and Apple is now struggling for a 5,6% US market share (and 2% worldwide market share).
Apple was never competitive.
The number of recalls for defective parts, over the last 20 years, is too long to enumerate. For the current recalls and warranty extension programs, just go to the Apple website.
While no company is exempt from defective products, Apple seems to be hit harder than its competitors. Why is that?
For 2006, Apple paid a $750 million compensation for 5 individuals, the Apple CEO and 4 of his hand picked Vice Presidents. Had they been paid a combined maximum of $20 millions, as with any other company, Apple could have sold its computers $100 cheaper. Had Apple also reduced its profit margin to 19%, I'm sure Apple computers could be sold $150 cheaper. For the June 2007 quarter, Apple increased its gross margin to 36.9%, up from 30.3% in the year-ago quarter.
2) The iPod and the iPhone don't have a user replaceable battery because their design is defective.
3) The iMac uses a less powerful laptop CPU because the iMac has a defective design being too thin to allow the ventilation required by a desktop class processor.
Apple is a severely mismanaged company ruled by an abusive CEO with only a high school education. The only thing genuinely exceptional about Steve Jobs is the size of his ego and his greed. Sadly.
If you truly believe what your saying here, and I doubt it, then you have a place to express yourself besides this forum. It's called the stock market. Have you heard of it?
Short Apple shares and buy Dell stock. If you're right you can laugh your ass off all the way to the bank and come back here and tell us what idiots we are. Otherwise you sound like a troll and a windows fanboi, ok.
just out of curiousity, for those of you who were buying options for apple at 155, did you guys just lose your shirts?
I think a huge warning should be made to people who want to do options trading. You can lose all your money fast - and the chances of there being a better options trader than you ready to take your cash is high, unless you really know what you're doing.
Comments
There is so much FUD in your post, and I shouldn't be responding to this crap at all but I'm going to point out one fact: Dell had to lower margins in a vain attempt to boost sales yet they are still falling faster than your trousers at a massage parlor in a Singapore harbour.
Get your facts right. Dell is still the top seller in the US market with 4.8 million PCs and a market share of 28.4% for the June 2007 quarter. See http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32980/113/
Now, if only Apple would lower its prices to do as well as Dell, we would all be a lot happier. But, for major changes to happen, we need a new CEO and board of directors for Apple.
Troll alert.
Wow, ouragan, you sure have an axe to grind. Have you and your physchiatrist discussed these feelings of rage? Are you on anti-anger manangement medication yet?
I don't have the time right now, on this beautiful Saturday morning, to address all of your FUD and non-statistically supported claims but here's one you didn't mention. As a dual platform user every day (That's everyday, not some time but everyday), there is no price I would put on the superiority of OS X over XP/SP2. (When Vista finally works, we'll address it). [...] With the "overpriced" Mac, I just turn it on and compute--ahhhhhhhhh! On those occasions that I need to download an update, I can do so immediately, or not. I also don't have to always reboot ---cringe-- I spend half my wintel life rebooting. This word makes my palms sweat and gives me the shakes--"NO, not another reboot--anything but that, please! AS to Mac required reboots, they are far fewer, quicker and less frequent than on my Sony XP unit. I can not put a price on this operational difference but whatever it is, I'd pay twice the price for a Mac if I had to, just to be able to use OS X and be free of the never-ending mandatory security maintenance required in XP land. With a Mac, I compute; with a Wintel unit, I work and much of the time I -cringe- reboot.
It's too nice a day to address all of your deep seated and pathologic hatred for Mac and SJ.
You'll have to agree with me that there is a wasted opportunity to expand the Mac OS X market share, given its superior user experience.
I also use Windows XP and recognize some of the shortcomings you describe. But they are not as terrible as you describe for, otherwise, no one would be using Windows XP.
Most commentators agree with you that Windows Vista is not all that it should be. Nevertheless, 60 million copies have already been sold, dwarfing the 25 million Mac user base (see http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33107/118/).
Finally, for your self-righteous accusations, please get the facts before you discuss a -- FINANCIAL -- report. Teenagers are good at hurling accusations and insults at people they disagree with. Mature adults, over the age of 20-25 years old, look at the facts, the numbers, and try to convince others with arguments based on reason and a discussion of facts and numbers.
In the future, please avoid personal attacks, especially when they are based on nothing. Share your passion for the Mac, not your hatred of whomever doesn't think exactly like you.
Thanks, but now I really feel stupid.
I prefer "carbon copy".
You should not consider options trading until you have taken a formal course and practiced with fake money first. You can lose your shirt, your house, your dog and god forbid your Mac (especially on a day like today), if you don't know what you're doing. Having said that, learning how to read options trading in a given stock can help predict impending big up or down movements in a stock. There will be a lot of option traders drinking heavily tonight.
Hopefully these corrections eliminate some of the wild-ass speculators with little experience who just add more volatility to the stock.
When I said by what measurement I meant an unbiased and balanced assessment of how Apple operates. A personal grudge and dubious examples do not qualify.
Its fine for Windows to be on a billion computers by the end of the year. Apple does not need to compete with those number to be a healthy company. For most of those computers Windows is the most expensive feature. Apple's value is greater than every other computer hardware maker.
So there are no sales numbers at this point you can throw out to diminish Apple's accomplishments.
Apple is a 20,000 employee international company with a 30 year history. Apple is not a one man company, nor an overnight success.
With so much attention focused on an egocentric, tyranical and abusive CEO, taking a $650 million illegal stock option bonus for 2006, it is easy to forget the real accomplishments of Apple engineers and the hard work of every other Apple employee.
As this is a discussion of the FINANCIAL report of Apple's June 2007 quarter, I've tried to put numbers in perspective and explain Apple's current undervalue and failures in the market place.
With everyone here agreeing how great Mac OS X computers are, how does anyone else explain the poor 5.6% US market share and the overall 2.6% worldwide market share?
I await your explanations and look forward to learning something new every day.
In the mean time, everyone should read the following account of an iPhone buyer and his realization of how expensive the iPhone really is (see http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33127/128/).
Now, if Apple is not about to repeat its pattern of pricing itself out of the market, I wonder what they think they are doing?
Apple is a 20,000 employee international company with a 30 year history. Apple is not a one man company, nor an overnight success.
With so much attention focused on an egocentric, tyranical and abusive CEO, taking a $650 million illegal stock option bonus for 2006, it is easy to forget the real accomplishments of Apple engineers and the hard work of every other Apple employee.
As this is a discussion of the FINANCIAL report of Apple's June 2007 quarter, I've tried to put numbers in perspective and explain Apple's current undervalue and failures in the market place.
With everyone here agreeing how great Mac OS X computers are, how does anyone else explain the poor 5.6% US market share and the overall 2.6% worldwide market share?
I await your explanations and look forward to learning something new every day.
In the mean time, everyone should read the following account of an iPhone buyer and his realization of how expensive the iPhone really is (see http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33127/128/).
Now, if Apple is not about to repeat its pattern of pricing itself out of the market, I wonder what they think they are doing?
With these very pointed and personal attacks on Apple and especially Steve Jobs, are we to assume you are a disgruntled ex-Apple, Inc. or Apple Store employee? You certainly sound like one.
^^^^ This guy (ouragan) sounds almost exactly like that other recent hypersensitive poster that got whupped for trying to start fights with everyone on the board.
I'm trying to discuss issues, not personal attacks. How about doing the same and coming up with numbers when discussing a FINANCIAL report?
I'm trying to discuss issues, not personal attacks. How about doing the same and coming up with numbers when discussing a FINANCIAL report?
You don't call this a personal attack? Who's taking the crazy pills here?
With so much attention focused on an egocentric, tyranical and abusive CEO, taking a $650 million illegal stock option bonus for 2006, it is easy to forget the real accomplishments of Apple engineers and the hard work of every other Apple employee.
With these very pointed and personal attacks on Apple and especially Steve Jobs, are we to assume you are a disgruntled ex-Apple, Inc. or Apple Store employee? You certainly sound like one.
No, but you can say that I am a disgruntled Nortel investor who lost money in a company where the CEO fled with a $170 million bonus based on flawed accounting.
If you haven't followed the Nortel story, it's a Stock Exchange fraud where everyone from directors to analysts advised investors that the sky was the limit with Nortel. The sky came falling down, the fraud was exposed and we are still waiting for the SEC to indict John Roth, the former Nortel CEO.
The Apple story with the illegal $650 million bonus to the CEO and close to $100 million paid to 4 Vice Presidents for 2006 is eerily similar to the Nortel debacle.
You should measure the decisions of a CEO and the decisions of a board of directors by what is needed for the greater good of a company. Concerning Apple, is there anyone who believes that it was for the greater good of Apple that the board of directors approved the payment of $750 millions to 5 individuals, in part through illegal and back dated stock options?
The Apple stock option fraud is a story that will not go away.
Investors will have to pay for their foolishness and the Mac community of users and programmers is smaller than it could be if prices were more reasonable and Apple better managed.
Sorry, if you disagree.
Once again, this is a FINANCIAL discussion, not a debate on whether or not we like Mac OS X, as we all do.
I lost a couple years pay in Nortel stock, as well as my job (after 5 years or so of layoffs) - Nortel was not worth the $87 then and I knew it, and Apple is worth $165 now and I know it. The P/E ratio of Nortel at its peak was astronomical, Apple has $15 billion in the bank and a 30 P/E - why are you so worried about the company?
With everyone here agreeing how great Mac OS X computers are, how does anyone else explain the poor 5.6% US market share and the overall 2.6% worldwide market share?
The subtext of bringing up Apple's market share is your implication that Apple would have a higher market share if the prices were lower. We've been round and round this topic on this forum. But the reasons for it are numerous and too complex to blame on any one factor.
In the long run what does that matter when Apple makes more money per computer sold than both Dell and HP. Do you want to sell more for less profit or make more profit per sale? Looking at the quarterly stats tells the story.
The other problem is that the computer market is old and slowing down, while other markets, namely mp3 players and smartphones are new and growing.
I'll give you 3 examples:
1) The May 2007 MacBook doesn't use the new Intel Santa Rosa platform, but slower, cheaper previous generation components. And yet, MacBooks are easily $100 to $150 more expensive than the Wintel competition using faster Santa Rosa components.
Apple was never competitive, going back to the 1986 to 1990 period when it insisted on a 50% profit margin on the sale of MacPlus computers. Apple had a good 35% of the market and felt that they were making a better computer than DOS powered IBM compatible clones.
We all know how that story played out. A few years ago, Dell reduced its profit margin from 22% to 19% to become the leader in education sales. Guess what? They left Apple in the dust, and Apple is now struggling for a 5,6% US market share (and 2% worldwide market share).
Apple was never competitive.
The number of recalls for defective parts, over the last 20 years, is too long to enumerate. For the current recalls and warranty extension programs, just go to the Apple website.
While no company is exempt from defective products, Apple seems to be hit harder than its competitors. Why is that?
For 2006, Apple paid a $750 million compensation for 5 individuals, the Apple CEO and 4 of his hand picked Vice Presidents. Had they been paid a combined maximum of $20 millions, as with any other company, Apple could have sold its computers $100 cheaper. Had Apple also reduced its profit margin to 19%, I'm sure Apple computers could be sold $150 cheaper. For the June 2007 quarter, Apple increased its gross margin to 36.9%, up from 30.3% in the year-ago quarter.
2) The iPod and the iPhone don't have a user replaceable battery because their design is defective.
3) The iMac uses a less powerful laptop CPU because the iMac has a defective design being too thin to allow the ventilation required by a desktop class processor.
Apple is a severely mismanaged company ruled by an abusive CEO with only a high school education. The only thing genuinely exceptional about Steve Jobs is the size of his ego and his greed. Sadly.
If you truly believe what your saying here, and I doubt it, then you have a place to express yourself besides this forum. It's called the stock market. Have you heard of it?
Short Apple shares and buy Dell stock. If you're right you can laugh your ass off all the way to the bank and come back here and tell us what idiots we are. Otherwise you sound like a troll and a windows fanboi, ok.
I think a huge warning should be made to people who want to do options trading. You can lose all your money fast - and the chances of there being a better options trader than you ready to take your cash is high, unless you really know what you're doing.