I can't find it but I am sure I read of one upcoming Xeon chipset that was going to be offered with a DDR2 memory bus, though not the one that you mentioned.
That's quite true, though it's a different module type than standard DDR2 memory, and it's still a very premium price. Maybe I'd be less irritated with the memory cost if the real-world benefits were more obvious. As it is, it's expensive, sucks power / runs hot and it really doesn't seem to have much to show for it.
Without FB-Dimms, Intels chipsets can only run 4 Dimm modules.
AMD has their own scheme, and the old PPC G5 chipsets did as well. As of now, this is the only way to do it using Intel.
Actually, the Seaburg chipset and Stoakley platform (that's the future one JeffDM is talking about, right?) would have some PCIe Gen2. In all likelihood, we'd see Gen2 PCIe at x8, which is fast enough to accomodate SLI (as fast as PCIe x16).
I haven't heard about a dual-independent-bus chipset that doesn't use FB-DIMMs. Please note that FB-DIMMs are both DDR2 and ECC.
Actually Intel has announced 2 new platforms for Xeons:
- The one you mentionned (Seaburg chipset and Stoakley platform) which is high-end, uses FB-DIMMs, PCIe 2.0 and replaces the currewnt 5000X chipset of the Bensley platform.
- A second one (the Cranberry Lake platform with the San Clemente chipset) that is a lower-cost product that replaces the 5000 V/P/Z chipsets, and that will use a "native" DDR2 memory controller (San Clemente) and a "desktop" south bridge (ICH9R) with fewer PCIe lanes.
Some "foreign language" information is available here, but the slides are in english. Both chipsets can handle dual-processors.
About the possible configurations for the penryn-based Mac Pro, and just using the price of the chips (current Woodcrest/Clowertown and leaked prices for Harpertown), this is what it could be:
$3997 dual-quad 3.16GHz (2x $1,172) from dual-quad 3.00GHz (just announced at 2x $1,172)
There are no 3.33GHz Xeons announced, but an extreme edition Yorkfield (desktop) at 3.33GHz has been. That doesn't mean that by the time Apple releases the new Mac Pro, Intel couldn't offer it. But just what I described above with the Seaburg chipset and 2GB of RAM standard would be a really nice upgrade!!!
Here's my guess for the next line of Mac Pro Towers (not counting the coming minitower) then.
2.83 GHz octo-core for about 3 grand.
2.66 GHz quad-core (single processor) for about 2.2 grand.
3.33 GHz octo-core for whatever the market will bear!
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I think that's off.
I suspect it would be more like;
Dual (dual core) 2.33 for $2,200
Dual (quad core 2.83 for $2,800
Dual (quad core) 3.16 for $3,800
Okay, I think all the chips reffered to in this article are Quad-Core. This would lead me to think that the MacPro will sport all dual quad core designs... which would leave the biggest gap yet between iMac and Mac Pro... 2.83GHz dual core vs ~2.83GHZ dual quad core.
This *would* leave plenty of room for a mini tower...
Based on this information when do you think the new Mac Pro would be announced? Where can I read more about this? I am looking to replace me aging powermac, and I was thinking about doing it in the next couple weeks... I am thinking I will probably wait till the newer one comes out.
What kind of performance advantages does this actually translate to?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix
Actually Intel has announced 2 new platforms for Xeons:
- The one you mentionned (Seaburg chipset and Stoakley platform) which is high-end, uses FB-DIMMs, PCIe 2.0 and replaces the currewnt 5000X chipset of the Bensley platform.
- A second one (the Cranberry Lake platform with the San Clemente chipset) that is a lower-cost product that replaces the 5000 V/P/Z chipsets, and that will use a "native" DDR2 memory controller (San Clemente) and a "desktop" south bridge (ICH9R) with fewer PCIe lanes.
Some "foreign language" information is available here, but the slides are in english. Both chipsets can handle dual-processors.
About the possible configurations for the penryn-based Mac Pro, and just using the price of the chips (current Woodcrest/Clowertown and leaked prices for Harpertown), this is what it could be:
$3997 dual-quad 3.16GHz (2x $1,172) from dual-quad 3.00GHz (just announced at 2x $1,172)
There are no 3.33GHz Xeons announced, but an extreme edition Yorkfield (desktop) at 3.33GHz has been. That doesn't mean that by the time Apple releases the new Mac Pro, Intel couldn't offer it. But just what I described above with the Seaburg chipset and 2GB of RAM standard would be a really nice upgrade!!!
Anyone have any idea if they will be updating the video cards also?
That's very nice, but the difference between x8 and x16 on video cards is still negligible, and really winds up being a marketing number because the actual difference isn't noticeable. Even if it's only 1% different in actual performance, people will focus on the the half the lanes as a severe crippling and repeatedly complain about it. Like you are. Seriously.
It would be nice if Apple still supported PCI-X on the Mac Pro but it's just not to be.
the high end video card can be slowed down by a x8 pci-e link.
the high end video card can be slowed down by a x8 pci-e link.
In theory yes - in practise not even a couple of 8800 Ultras running in SLI over 2x8 pci-e will be hampered by the half bandwidth to any noticable degree.
In theory yes - in practise not even a couple of 8800 Ultras running in SLI over 2x8 pci-e will be hampered by the half bandwidth to any noticable degree.
All this changes with PCI 3.0 Specification and we won't see this until 2010.
the high end video card can be slowed down by a x8 pci-e link.
Of course. I admitted that it would be slowed down by 1%. I think at the very worst, it's 5%. If you didn't tell people, I don't think many people would notice the difference.
Comments
I can't find it but I am sure I read of one upcoming Xeon chipset that was going to be offered with a DDR2 memory bus, though not the one that you mentioned.
That's quite true, though it's a different module type than standard DDR2 memory, and it's still a very premium price. Maybe I'd be less irritated with the memory cost if the real-world benefits were more obvious. As it is, it's expensive, sucks power / runs hot and it really doesn't seem to have much to show for it.
Without FB-Dimms, Intels chipsets can only run 4 Dimm modules.
AMD has their own scheme, and the old PPC G5 chipsets did as well. As of now, this is the only way to do it using Intel.
Actually, the Seaburg chipset and Stoakley platform (that's the future one JeffDM is talking about, right?) would have some PCIe Gen2. In all likelihood, we'd see Gen2 PCIe at x8, which is fast enough to accomodate SLI (as fast as PCIe x16).
I haven't heard about a dual-independent-bus chipset that doesn't use FB-DIMMs. Please note that FB-DIMMs are both DDR2 and ECC.
Actually Intel has announced 2 new platforms for Xeons:
- The one you mentionned (Seaburg chipset and Stoakley platform) which is high-end, uses FB-DIMMs, PCIe 2.0 and replaces the currewnt 5000X chipset of the Bensley platform.
- A second one (the Cranberry Lake platform with the San Clemente chipset) that is a lower-cost product that replaces the 5000 V/P/Z chipsets, and that will use a "native" DDR2 memory controller (San Clemente) and a "desktop" south bridge (ICH9R) with fewer PCIe lanes.
Some "foreign language" information is available here, but the slides are in english. Both chipsets can handle dual-processors.
About the possible configurations for the penryn-based Mac Pro, and just using the price of the chips (current Woodcrest/Clowertown and leaked prices for Harpertown), this is what it could be:
$2200 dual-quad 2.50GHz (2x $316) from dual-dual 2.00GHz (still 2x $316)
$2499 dual-quad 2.83GHz (2x $690) from dual-dual 2.66GHz (still 2x $690)
$3298 dual-quad 3.00GHz (2x $851) from dual-dual 3.00GHz (still 2x $851)
$3997 dual-quad 3.16GHz (2x $1,172) from dual-quad 3.00GHz (just announced at 2x $1,172)
There are no 3.33GHz Xeons announced, but an extreme edition Yorkfield (desktop) at 3.33GHz has been. That doesn't mean that by the time Apple releases the new Mac Pro, Intel couldn't offer it. But just what I described above with the Seaburg chipset and 2GB of RAM standard would be a really nice upgrade!!!
Here's my guess for the next line of Mac Pro Towers (not counting the coming minitower) then.
2.83 GHz octo-core for about 3 grand.
2.66 GHz quad-core (single processor) for about 2.2 grand.
3.33 GHz octo-core for whatever the market will bear!
I think that's off.
I suspect it would be more like;
Dual (dual core) 2.33 for $2,200
Dual (quad core 2.83 for $2,800
Dual (quad core) 3.16 for $3,800
Okay, I think all the chips reffered to in this article are Quad-Core. This would lead me to think that the MacPro will sport all dual quad core designs... which would leave the biggest gap yet between iMac and Mac Pro... 2.83GHz dual core vs ~2.83GHZ dual quad core.
This *would* leave plenty of room for a mini tower...
-Clive
What kind of performance advantages does this actually translate to?
Actually Intel has announced 2 new platforms for Xeons:
- The one you mentionned (Seaburg chipset and Stoakley platform) which is high-end, uses FB-DIMMs, PCIe 2.0 and replaces the currewnt 5000X chipset of the Bensley platform.
- A second one (the Cranberry Lake platform with the San Clemente chipset) that is a lower-cost product that replaces the 5000 V/P/Z chipsets, and that will use a "native" DDR2 memory controller (San Clemente) and a "desktop" south bridge (ICH9R) with fewer PCIe lanes.
Some "foreign language" information is available here, but the slides are in english. Both chipsets can handle dual-processors.
About the possible configurations for the penryn-based Mac Pro, and just using the price of the chips (current Woodcrest/Clowertown and leaked prices for Harpertown), this is what it could be:
$2200 dual-quad 2.50GHz (2x $316) from dual-dual 2.00GHz (still 2x $316)
$2499 dual-quad 2.83GHz (2x $690) from dual-dual 2.66GHz (still 2x $690)
$3298 dual-quad 3.00GHz (2x $851) from dual-dual 3.00GHz (still 2x $851)
$3997 dual-quad 3.16GHz (2x $1,172) from dual-quad 3.00GHz (just announced at 2x $1,172)
There are no 3.33GHz Xeons announced, but an extreme edition Yorkfield (desktop) at 3.33GHz has been. That doesn't mean that by the time Apple releases the new Mac Pro, Intel couldn't offer it. But just what I described above with the Seaburg chipset and 2GB of RAM standard would be a really nice upgrade!!!
Anyone have any idea if they will be updating the video cards also?
What kind of performance advantages does this actually translate to?
Versus a PowerMac, for applications that are multi-threaded, substancial advantages. Do you do a lot of Photoshop, FCP or the like?
-Clive
That's very nice, but the difference between x8 and x16 on video cards is still negligible, and really winds up being a marketing number because the actual difference isn't noticeable. Even if it's only 1% different in actual performance, people will focus on the the half the lanes as a severe crippling and repeatedly complain about it. Like you are. Seriously.
It would be nice if Apple still supported PCI-X on the Mac Pro but it's just not to be.
the high end video card can be slowed down by a x8 pci-e link.
the high end video card can be slowed down by a x8 pci-e link.
In theory yes - in practise not even a couple of 8800 Ultras running in SLI over 2x8 pci-e will be hampered by the half bandwidth to any noticable degree.
how about a EFI nvida quadro fx 5600
Combine that with some announcement concerning Pro/Engineer and the ever hated AutoCad on a new Mac Pro would make waves.
In theory yes - in practise not even a couple of 8800 Ultras running in SLI over 2x8 pci-e will be hampered by the half bandwidth to any noticable degree.
All this changes with PCI 3.0 Specification and we won't see this until 2010.
http://www.pcisig.com/news_room/08_08_07/
the high end video card can be slowed down by a x8 pci-e link.
Of course. I admitted that it would be slowed down by 1%. I think at the very worst, it's 5%. If you didn't tell people, I don't think many people would notice the difference.
Versus a PowerMac, for applications that are multi-threaded, substancial advantages. Do you do a lot of Photoshop, FCP or the like?
-Clive
I will using CS3 extensively, FCP, and I will be doing animating some time later this fall.