I was going to quote certain comments but your entire post made me laugh. You need to put down the koolaid.
Oh and by the way people don't by their hardware because they love it so much, they buy it because you can't run their OS unless you buy it. Steve Jobs likes to create his own arena and only allow you to play within his boundries.
It would be truly interesting if he put his OS out there along side MS to see how well it could truly compete head to head.
wow. you do realize that your post here would apply to MS, Universal, etc. more than Apple right?
Why would we want Mac OS X on commodity hardware. I want it on great hardware that complements it. I bought my laptop because I loved the hardware. And I like Mac Os far more than windows as well. I guess MAc users have the best of both worlds and some people just don't like it. Bummer.
for the record, yes windows does have to deal with all kinds of different stuff, but remember, they all create their products and their own drivers to have it work with windows. It's not like it's Microsoft has such a hard time.
And to add further, an Apple machine runs Windows better through bootcamp as well. simply let Bootcamp create your drivers and your good to go. Better than any windows experience I ahve had from Dell or HP for sure.
Apple is just on top of the game. That is why people like them.
companies that oppose them by just banding together and using bully tactics will fell the backlash from consumers who like the hardware design software robustness and simplicity and the honsety of the business plan.
People don't want to go back to the dark ages. Apple represents progress.
You have completely missed the point in every post. Apple 'truly competes' by providing a coherent hardware/software system that works. This is exactly what the iPod/iTunes provides. Its not a question of 'allowing you to play in his arena'. You buy or you don't. Your choice. Also a great many people, myself included, DO buy the hardware because of of the quality of design and construction.
You sound like a bitter PC user. Perhaps you should go away.
LOL, Bitter PC user, im current responding to you on a Mac Pro. I haven't missed anything, people responding to this fail to undertand the difference between selling ipods, downloading the itunes software and buying from the itunes store.
Anything that someone can download from Walmart, Real, Verizon can be played on any player including ipods and iphones.
The point is Walmart and Verizon have the buying power to compete with Apple, in fact it was Verizon that told Apple to go pound sand when it came to the iphone because they don't need Apple. Cigular/ATT only agreed because they want to attempt to take some market share away from Verizon.
I have no problem with Apple hardware, I have tons of it in my house, im sure far more than you do or most that post on this forum. So the whole bitter PC user BS doesn't float. There isn't anyone about working on a PC that makes people bitter, there isn't anything that OSX does that I can do in Windows as good if not better.
Getting away from music seeing you brought up PC's the whole it doesn't need drivers we all know is BS, it never crashes we all know is BS, seeing Safari crashes on me at least twice a day. All hardware can fail and all software has bugs, end of story.
There are things I do on a PC and thing I do on a Mac for differnet reasons they are tools not something I have sex with, im not sure you can all say that you seem to be in love with hardware a bit too much.
People get so upset when other companies attempt to compete against Apple, because they are too stupid to realize that competition benifits the end user, end user would be you and I by the way. God forbid someone attempt to dig into the ipod market share everyone freaks out because its the only thing Apple fanboys can hold onto ipod market shares.
The whole Apple elite crap didn't work 20 years ago it works even less today.
wow. you do realize that your post here would apply to MS, Universal, etc. more than Apple right?
Why would we want Mac OS X on commodity hardware. I want it on great hardware that complements it. I bought my laptop because I loved the hardware. And I like Mac Os far more than windows as well. I guess MAc users have the best of both worlds and some people just don't like it. Bummer.
for the record, yes windows does have to deal with all kinds of different stuff, but remember, they all create their products and their own drivers to have it work with windows. It's not like it's Microsoft has such a hard time.
And to add further, an Apple machine runs Windows better through bootcamp as well. simply let Bootcamp create your drivers and your good to go. Better than any windows experience I ahve had from Dell or HP for sure.
Apple is just on top of the game. That is why people like them.
companies that oppose them by just banding together and using bully tactics will fell the backlash from consumers who like the hardware design software robustness and simplicity and the honsety of the business plan.
People don't want to go back to the dark ages. Apple represents progress.
The hardware doesn't compliment anything, its the same hardware you can get in any system. You have an intel chip, intel supported motherboard, ati gpu and samsung ram, philps display on an iMac. There is nothing special about any of it. Your dreaming.
Apple computers do not run Windows "better" through boot camp. Apple computers run well because they run a Unix based OS one you go into windows you lose that. Windows runs like Windows anywhere. With boot camp you have to go and seek out the same drivers you would need on any system, Leopard is suppose to help that by including drivers.
Apple attempts to Bully people the iphone is a perfect example, that is why Verizon told them to get lost.
Apple makes nice products, I use them all the time, I just don't get carried away about what they are and aren't.
The hardware doesn't compliment anything, its the same hardware you can get in any system. You have an intel chip, intel supported motherboard, ati gpu and samsung ram, philps display on an iMac. There is nothing special about any of it. Your dreaming.
I think the point was that the OS is designed to work with Apple's hardware specs, i.e., the hardware and OS complement each other in that regard.
And it has been an open secret that Apple doesn't use the lower QC'd components from the component manufacturers, so the same stick of RAM sold by Apple isn't necessarily the same you get in any old beige box PC. Apple doesn't always get it right, but they do put a lot more care into how the hardware and OS work together. I agree with that much of what was said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
Apple computers do not run Windows "better" through boot camp. Apple computers run well because they run a Unix based OS one you go into windows you lose that. Windows runs like Windows anywhere. With boot camp you have to go and seek out the same drivers you would need on any system, Leopard is suppose to help that by including drivers.
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that the Windows user experience is identical across all PCs. If so, then you are utterly wrong. Windows can--and does--behave very differently on different PCs. I've used PCs where Windows is a complete nightmare, where things die left and right and things malfunction for no apparent reason.
Again, not sure what your point was, but suggesting Windows runs the same across all PCs is just not correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
Apple attempts to Bully people the iphone is a perfect example, that is why Verizon told them to get lost.
Apple makes nice products, I use them all the time, I just don't get carried away about what they are and aren't.
Why is it a problem for one company to bully another (assuming there is no monopolistic power in the mix)? That's done all the time in business. That's part of the game. Why should Apple be held to any other standard?
I think the point was that the OS is designed to work with Apple's hardware specs, i.e., the hardware and OS complement each other in that regard.
And it has been an open secret that Apple doesn't use the lower QC'd components from the component manufacturers, so the same stick of RAM sold by Apple isn't necessarily the same you get in any old beige box PC. Apple doesn't always get it right, but they do put a lot more care into how the hardware and OS work together. I agree with that much of what was said.
I wouldn't disagree with that statement. It's one of the reason I buy Apple computers, but again there are certain people that take it too far, it's still hardwared and software and both can have problems like any other hardware or software.
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkswamp
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that the Windows user experience is identical across all PCs. If so, then you are utterly wrong. Windows can--and does--behave very differently on different PCs. I've used PCs where Windows is a complete nightmare, where things die left and right and things malfunction for no apparent reason.
Not at all that would have been a silly comment on my part. The other member was attempting to say that somehow boot camp allows Windows to run better on a Mac. Windows runs better based on how much hardware you throw at it. It's not like a Mac computer runs Windows better, its all based on hardware specs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkswamp
Why is it a problem for one company to bully another (assuming there is no monopolistic power in the mix)? That's done all the time in business. That's part of the game. Why should Apple be held to any other standard?
It shouldn't be yet again that was me disputing another members comments. We live in a capitalist society, I say get whatever the market share can stand. The point the other member was making was Apple is this pure kind company and Microsoft is like the even drug companies. Thats what I found stupid.
Oh and by the way people don't by their hardware because they love it so much, they buy it because you can't run their OS unless you buy it. Steve Jobs likes to create his own arena and only allow you to play within his boundries.
And yet you do play within his boundaries, as we all do. It must be frustrating having to acknowledge that the reason you buy & use Macs is at odds with your belief as to what makes them so good.
Your subsequent post is wrong by the way, it's not all down to hardware specs, it's down to your belief that you're smart enough to understand them. Even if you were to get your own way and have hardware freedom at which point would you acknowledge it wasn't freedom at all and would start pushing at the boundaries' of general PC hardware architecture? Of course by then you'd have broken the thing that worked so well - even if you couldn't figure out why.
And yet you do play within his boundaries, as we all do. It must be frustrating having to acknowledge that the reason you buy & use Macs is at odds with your belief as to what makes them so good.
I believe the OS is what makes them good. Windows even more so Vista simply can not manage certain things as well as OSX. I don't get frustrated over things like computers and i don't play but anyones boundries, I enjoy using Mac and PC's if at any time I decided I didn't want to purchase one or the other again I simply wouldn't. I would get annoyed if I bought an iphone and got a 3,000 bill, that would be annoying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave
Your subsequent post is wrong by the way, it's not all down to hardware specs, it's down to your belief that you're smart enough to understand them. Even if you were to get your own way and have hardware freedom at which point would you acknowledge it wasn't freedom at all and would start pushing at the boundaries' of general PC hardware architecture? Of course by then you'd have broken the thing that worked so well - even if you couldn't figure out why.
McD
Oh im very certain I understand that. I help design multi million dollar systems, have for almost 20 years now, im farily certain I have a handle on the hardware as well as software. There isn't anything on the PC/Mac that I didn't work on 15+ years ago when it came to the mainframe first. Cache we use to call that DasD fast write, Raid been using Raid 0,1,5 for well over a decade. MVS, Os390, Unix, Jes2, CA products, SAS, VM, Assember, Rexx C++, please ive forgotten more than you will ever know.
IBM employees still get very good deals on Apple products.
It would be truly interesting if he put his OS out there along side MS to see how well it could truly compete head to head.
Apple uses a different business model from MS. There is no rule that says everyone needs to do things the same way. The irony of all of this is the troubles with Vista showing the disadvantage of trying to support too many systems. While OS X clearly shows the advantages of supporting a few systems.
Quote:
The point is Walmart and Verizon have the buying power to compete with Apple,
You need good ideas and good execution as well as money. Walmart and Verizons V-Cast have been around for awhile and so far there isn't a big rush for either. Particularly V-Cast is a direct revenue stream meant to keep the customer paying money.
Quote:
Anything that someone can download from Walmart, Real, Verizon can be played on any player including ipods and iphones.
This would only be hastle free for DRM free downloads which so far Walmart is the only of the three who will offer. Otherwise its not worth bothering with the DRM.
Quote:
in fact it was Verizon that told Apple to go pound sand when it came to the iphone because they don't need Apple.
One big reason this would not have worked is because Verizon would have wanted to charge for every function of the iPhone.
[QUOTE=TenoBell;1130559]Apple uses a different business model from MS. There is no rule that says everyone needs to do things the same way. The irony of all of this is the troubles with Vista showing the disadvantage of trying to support too many systems. While OS X clearly shows the advantages of supporting a few systems.[\\QUOTE]
I'm not sure what you mean by too many systems. Do you mean OS platforms or the fact that MS has 94% of the market?
[QUOTE=TenoBell;1130559]You need good ideas and good execution as well as money. Walmart and Verizons V-Cast have been around for awhile and so far there isn't a big rush for either. Particularly V-Cast is a direct revenue stream meant to keep the customer paying money.[\\QUOTE]
I would agree with V-Cast not much is going on there. Walmart however has the money and the marketing power not the mention the name alone to maket this grow if they want. iTunes even falls short in some areas while music and audiobooks have a very strong hold, movies and tv shows have not taken off very well. The selection isn't very good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
One big reason this would not have worked is because Verizon would have wanted to charge for every function of the iPhone.
It's only a guess but I think the biggest issue with Verizon was they wanted to control the situation. Have Apple sell them the phones and have Verizon discount them based on contracts, which of course Apple did not want and ATT was willing to do in an attempt to pull customers from Verizon. Only a guess but that seems logical.
Windows has to support probably hundreds of thousands of various hardware configurations. OS X only has to support the few that Apple creates.
The reason the movie selection in iTunes is low is because of the movie studios and their fear that Apple will execute its business plan so well that they loose control of the online distribution chanel. The same as happened with music.
As far as Verizon and the iPhone. Its a pretty sure bet the argument was over control. I don't want the mobile carriers dictating the functionality and limitations of our phones. That is how we've ended up with poor phones and crappy service.
the race for the living room will be won with simple, seemless intergration apple is in the pole position and has a track record.
walmart will sell music most people have ipods, how many steps is there to buying from walmart and getting into the ipod vs buying from itunes and getting it into my ipod (someone try this). the vast majority of people dont wont do the extra steps. it's the seemless integration that makes itunes ipod work and it's success.
also isn't aac from apple a better compression qualtiy then mp3, so you have to have a larger mp3 file size to get the same quality as aac. so my shuffle holds fewer walmart songs. why do this as a consumer. they are looking to be number 2 in the download market, it's about them getting any market share. their business model is what.......let's be number 1????? i dont think so. their business model is to compete against the also rans..... they and wallstreet know this. have theri stock prices gone up after their announcement.....the market speaks loudly
I believe the OS is what makes them good. Windows even more so Vista simply can not manage certain things as well as OSX. I don't get frustrated over things like computers and i don't play but anyones boundries, I enjoy using Mac and PC's if at any time I decided I didn't want to purchase one or the other again I simply wouldn't. I would get annoyed if I bought an iphone and got a 3,000 bill, that would be annoying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
Oh and by the way people don't by their hardware because they love it so much, they buy it because you can't run their OS unless you buy it. Steve Jobs likes to create his own arena and only allow you to play within his boundries.
So you mentioned it because?
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
im very certain I understand that. I help design multi million dollar systems, have for almost 20 years now, im farily certain I have a handle on the hardware as well as software. There isn't anything on the PC/Mac that I didn't work on 15+ years ago when it came to the mainframe first. Cache we use to call that DasD fast write, Raid been using Raid 0,1,5 for well over a decade. MVS, Os390, Unix, Jes2, CA products, SAS, VM, Assember, Rexx C++, please ive forgotten more than you will ever know.
IBM employees still get very good deals on Apple products.
I won't question your Big Iron ops prowess (though most of the systems engineers & designers I've spoken to over the last 20 years still don't claim to have the whole thing down). Tell me, if every man & his dog made plugin componentry for IBM's real kit - would it be so resilient? Would OS390 have been so solid on Taiwan's (maybe not Hitachi's) cheapest clones? Aren't their mainfame and midrange products so reliable because they're relatively closed systems as well?
I'm happy that both IBM & Apple agree on that. This way my banking transactions don't screw up and I get some good kit to use at home as well.
Actually after I read this sorry the next one I ran across was Walmart announced they are going to start selling DRM free mucic. Yeah it was like .94 per track or 9.22 per album.
I don't really see any of this as a bad thing, while I don't believe they will be able to take over itunes its nice to know that some competition is starting to form. It keeps prices in check, which is always good for the end user.
The Walmart site may be useful for PC users, but it doesn't support Mac or Linux. I can't see that iTunes has any threat here. Competition, yes. Threat? Not a chance.
Universal's challenge to Apple by selling DRM free music through Walmart and Google seems completely misguided. As the music is DRM free it should be trivial to take the music you bought from them and chuck it on your iPod. Unless of course they use some wacky proprietary format, in which case you'd need a extra step to convert it to MP3/ACC/whatever.
Sure, this will take away sales from the iTunes music store. But so what? Apple makes it's money from selling iPods, not from selling music on their store. People use the iTunes store because they have iPods, not the other way around. It's not like people go into an Apple store and scream: "I love your music store so much I bought 100 tracks! Now sell me an iPod so I can listen to all that sweet, sweet music!".
The iTunes store makes buying music and syncing it to an iPod easy - that's why people use it. But people still get most of their music by ripping CDs or downloading stuff from P2P networks. In Steve Jobs' open letter to the music industry he even acknowledged that the majority of music on iPods is not from the iTunes store.
So while iPods continue to dominate the music player market it really doesn't matter much to Apple where the music comes from. Sure, it's nice for them to be able to offer music directly to iTunes via the store, but it's not the huge earner for them that the iPod is.
Again, I don't think people buy iPods because of the iTunes store - they buy iPods because they're fashionable and easy to use. As long as music is being sold without DRM I don't see any major problems.
The worst Universal can do is make it difficult for people to get music they bought on their store to an iPod. If that's the case, then people won't bother to use their service and continue ripping CDs and downloading crap on Kazaa. Failing to work with the most popular music player on the market is nothing short of suicidal. Why else have so many other online stores failed?
I won't question your Big Iron ops prowess (though most of the systems engineers & designers I've spoken to over the last 20 years still don't claim to have the whole thing down). Tell me, if every man & his dog made plugin componentry for IBM's real kit - would it be so resilient? Would OS390 have been so solid on Taiwan's (maybe not Hitachi's) cheapest clones? Aren't their mainfame and midrange products so reliable because they're relatively closed systems as well?
I'm happy that both IBM & Apple agree on that. This way my banking transactions don't screw up and I get some good kit to use at home as well.
McD
That last statement gave me a good laugh. Only because I still wonder with all the batch screw ups how anyone actually gets an accurate credit card statement.
I won't question your Big Iron ops prowess (though most of the systems engineers & designers I've spoken to over the last 20 years still don't claim to have the whole thing down). Tell me, if every man & his dog made plugin componentry for IBM's real kit - would it be so resilient? Would OS390 have been so solid on Taiwan's (maybe not Hitachi's) cheapest clones? Aren't their mainfame and midrange products so reliable because they're relatively closed systems as well?
I'm happy that both IBM & Apple agree on that. This way my banking transactions don't screw up and I get some good kit to use at home as well.
McD
That last statement gave me a good laugh. Only because I still wonder with all the batch screw ups how anyone actually gets an accurate credit card statement.
IBM is fairly closed off and like Apple many times the close off and force the use of their products whent there is clearly a better option. Computer Associates is a perfect example.
Everyone always wants to compare a 2,400k Mac Pro to a 999.00 Gateway. If we compared it say to a system made by Velocity Mirco for the same price you would get , a Q6600 chip, 2gigs of Corsair Ram, Dual 400gig drives raid 0, 8800gts 320mg nividia gpu, Asus motherboard and top of the line case, and you would still have room to throw in a nice monitor out the door for the same price.
Now run a poll and im sure most would take the Micro Velocity option over the Mac Pro to run OsX on.
Steve Jobs in his keynotes always compares to Dell not because they build quality products but because they are the market share leaders. I have custome built system that ive done myself that are 5 years old and run wonderful and they were build for far less than a Mac. So not every PC dies after a year.
Also its not like Mac users haven't been asking for a mid range tower for years now.
As far as failure rates Apple notebooks have always had a fairly high failure rate due to heat issues.
The Walmart site may be useful for PC users, but it doesn't support Mac or Linux. I can't see that iTunes has any threat here. Competition, yes. Threat? Not a chance.
Yet again, most that use iTunes are PC users, remember they are the ones that have 94% of the market. iTunes as we all know is not a mac only product, neither are ipods most that use them are PC users not mac users.
the race for the living room will be won with simple, seemless intergration apple is in the pole position and has a track record.
walmart will sell music most people have ipods, how many steps is there to buying from walmart and getting into the ipod vs buying from itunes and getting it into my ipod (someone try this). the vast majority of people dont wont do the extra steps. it's the seemless integration that makes itunes ipod work and it's success.
also isn't aac from apple a better compression qualtiy then mp3, so you have to have a larger mp3 file size to get the same quality as aac. so my shuffle holds fewer walmart songs. why do this as a consumer. they are looking to be number 2 in the download market, it's about them getting any market share. their business model is what.......let's be number 1????? i dont think so. their business model is to compete against the also rans..... they and wallstreet know this. have theri stock prices gone up after their announcement.....the market speaks loudly
It's one extra step. The extra step is hitting import into itunes, thats it.
It's one extra step. The extra step is hitting import into itunes, thats it.
Its multiple extra steps...you have to buy the thing from Walmart first...if its there. And you need to make sure you get the mp3 vs wma version. iTunes store is simpler if you're using it anyway to manage your music.
Personally, if I'm not going to bother with iTunes I might as well order the CD from Walmart or Amazon.
Its multiple extra steps...you have to buy the thing from Walmart first...if its there. And you need to make sure you get the mp3 vs wma version. iTunes store is simpler if you're using it anyway to manage your music.
Personally, if I'm not going to bother with iTunes I might as well order the CD from Walmart or Amazon.
Vinea
Please its one extra step. Who the hell buys .wma versions of anything. You have to do all the same stuff in itunes when it comes to buying anything the only extra step is having to import into iTunes.
As far as buying CD's any smart person does that anyways that way you have a DRM free copy to do with as you wish.
Comments
I was going to quote certain comments but your entire post made me laugh. You need to put down the koolaid.
Oh and by the way people don't by their hardware because they love it so much, they buy it because you can't run their OS unless you buy it. Steve Jobs likes to create his own arena and only allow you to play within his boundries.
It would be truly interesting if he put his OS out there along side MS to see how well it could truly compete head to head.
wow. you do realize that your post here would apply to MS, Universal, etc. more than Apple right?
Why would we want Mac OS X on commodity hardware. I want it on great hardware that complements it. I bought my laptop because I loved the hardware. And I like Mac Os far more than windows as well. I guess MAc users have the best of both worlds and some people just don't like it. Bummer.
for the record, yes windows does have to deal with all kinds of different stuff, but remember, they all create their products and their own drivers to have it work with windows. It's not like it's Microsoft has such a hard time.
And to add further, an Apple machine runs Windows better through bootcamp as well. simply let Bootcamp create your drivers and your good to go. Better than any windows experience I ahve had from Dell or HP for sure.
Apple is just on top of the game. That is why people like them.
companies that oppose them by just banding together and using bully tactics will fell the backlash from consumers who like the hardware design software robustness and simplicity and the honsety of the business plan.
People don't want to go back to the dark ages. Apple represents progress.
You have completely missed the point in every post. Apple 'truly competes' by providing a coherent hardware/software system that works. This is exactly what the iPod/iTunes provides. Its not a question of 'allowing you to play in his arena'. You buy or you don't. Your choice. Also a great many people, myself included, DO buy the hardware because of of the quality of design and construction.
You sound like a bitter PC user. Perhaps you should go away.
LOL, Bitter PC user, im current responding to you on a Mac Pro. I haven't missed anything, people responding to this fail to undertand the difference between selling ipods, downloading the itunes software and buying from the itunes store.
Anything that someone can download from Walmart, Real, Verizon can be played on any player including ipods and iphones.
The point is Walmart and Verizon have the buying power to compete with Apple, in fact it was Verizon that told Apple to go pound sand when it came to the iphone because they don't need Apple. Cigular/ATT only agreed because they want to attempt to take some market share away from Verizon.
I have no problem with Apple hardware, I have tons of it in my house, im sure far more than you do or most that post on this forum. So the whole bitter PC user BS doesn't float. There isn't anyone about working on a PC that makes people bitter, there isn't anything that OSX does that I can do in Windows as good if not better.
Getting away from music seeing you brought up PC's the whole it doesn't need drivers we all know is BS, it never crashes we all know is BS, seeing Safari crashes on me at least twice a day. All hardware can fail and all software has bugs, end of story.
There are things I do on a PC and thing I do on a Mac for differnet reasons they are tools not something I have sex with, im not sure you can all say that you seem to be in love with hardware a bit too much.
People get so upset when other companies attempt to compete against Apple, because they are too stupid to realize that competition benifits the end user, end user would be you and I by the way. God forbid someone attempt to dig into the ipod market share everyone freaks out because its the only thing Apple fanboys can hold onto ipod market shares.
The whole Apple elite crap didn't work 20 years ago it works even less today.
wow. you do realize that your post here would apply to MS, Universal, etc. more than Apple right?
Why would we want Mac OS X on commodity hardware. I want it on great hardware that complements it. I bought my laptop because I loved the hardware. And I like Mac Os far more than windows as well. I guess MAc users have the best of both worlds and some people just don't like it. Bummer.
for the record, yes windows does have to deal with all kinds of different stuff, but remember, they all create their products and their own drivers to have it work with windows. It's not like it's Microsoft has such a hard time.
And to add further, an Apple machine runs Windows better through bootcamp as well. simply let Bootcamp create your drivers and your good to go. Better than any windows experience I ahve had from Dell or HP for sure.
Apple is just on top of the game. That is why people like them.
companies that oppose them by just banding together and using bully tactics will fell the backlash from consumers who like the hardware design software robustness and simplicity and the honsety of the business plan.
People don't want to go back to the dark ages. Apple represents progress.
The hardware doesn't compliment anything, its the same hardware you can get in any system. You have an intel chip, intel supported motherboard, ati gpu and samsung ram, philps display on an iMac. There is nothing special about any of it. Your dreaming.
Apple computers do not run Windows "better" through boot camp. Apple computers run well because they run a Unix based OS one you go into windows you lose that. Windows runs like Windows anywhere. With boot camp you have to go and seek out the same drivers you would need on any system, Leopard is suppose to help that by including drivers.
Apple attempts to Bully people the iphone is a perfect example, that is why Verizon told them to get lost.
Apple makes nice products, I use them all the time, I just don't get carried away about what they are and aren't.
The hardware doesn't compliment anything, its the same hardware you can get in any system. You have an intel chip, intel supported motherboard, ati gpu and samsung ram, philps display on an iMac. There is nothing special about any of it. Your dreaming.
I think the point was that the OS is designed to work with Apple's hardware specs, i.e., the hardware and OS complement each other in that regard.
And it has been an open secret that Apple doesn't use the lower QC'd components from the component manufacturers, so the same stick of RAM sold by Apple isn't necessarily the same you get in any old beige box PC. Apple doesn't always get it right, but they do put a lot more care into how the hardware and OS work together. I agree with that much of what was said.
Apple computers do not run Windows "better" through boot camp. Apple computers run well because they run a Unix based OS one you go into windows you lose that. Windows runs like Windows anywhere. With boot camp you have to go and seek out the same drivers you would need on any system, Leopard is suppose to help that by including drivers.
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that the Windows user experience is identical across all PCs. If so, then you are utterly wrong. Windows can--and does--behave very differently on different PCs. I've used PCs where Windows is a complete nightmare, where things die left and right and things malfunction for no apparent reason.
Again, not sure what your point was, but suggesting Windows runs the same across all PCs is just not correct.
Apple attempts to Bully people the iphone is a perfect example, that is why Verizon told them to get lost.
Apple makes nice products, I use them all the time, I just don't get carried away about what they are and aren't.
Why is it a problem for one company to bully another (assuming there is no monopolistic power in the mix)? That's done all the time in business. That's part of the game. Why should Apple be held to any other standard?
I think the point was that the OS is designed to work with Apple's hardware specs, i.e., the hardware and OS complement each other in that regard.
And it has been an open secret that Apple doesn't use the lower QC'd components from the component manufacturers, so the same stick of RAM sold by Apple isn't necessarily the same you get in any old beige box PC. Apple doesn't always get it right, but they do put a lot more care into how the hardware and OS work together. I agree with that much of what was said.
I wouldn't disagree with that statement. It's one of the reason I buy Apple computers, but again there are certain people that take it too far, it's still hardwared and software and both can have problems like any other hardware or software.
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that the Windows user experience is identical across all PCs. If so, then you are utterly wrong. Windows can--and does--behave very differently on different PCs. I've used PCs where Windows is a complete nightmare, where things die left and right and things malfunction for no apparent reason.
Not at all that would have been a silly comment on my part. The other member was attempting to say that somehow boot camp allows Windows to run better on a Mac. Windows runs better based on how much hardware you throw at it. It's not like a Mac computer runs Windows better, its all based on hardware specs.
Why is it a problem for one company to bully another (assuming there is no monopolistic power in the mix)? That's done all the time in business. That's part of the game. Why should Apple be held to any other standard?
It shouldn't be yet again that was me disputing another members comments. We live in a capitalist society, I say get whatever the market share can stand. The point the other member was making was Apple is this pure kind company and Microsoft is like the even drug companies. Thats what I found stupid.
Oh and by the way people don't by their hardware because they love it so much, they buy it because you can't run their OS unless you buy it. Steve Jobs likes to create his own arena and only allow you to play within his boundries.
And yet you do play within his boundaries, as we all do. It must be frustrating having to acknowledge that the reason you buy & use Macs is at odds with your belief as to what makes them so good.
Your subsequent post is wrong by the way, it's not all down to hardware specs, it's down to your belief that you're smart enough to understand them. Even if you were to get your own way and have hardware freedom at which point would you acknowledge it wasn't freedom at all and would start pushing at the boundaries' of general PC hardware architecture? Of course by then you'd have broken the thing that worked so well - even if you couldn't figure out why.
McD
And yet you do play within his boundaries, as we all do. It must be frustrating having to acknowledge that the reason you buy & use Macs is at odds with your belief as to what makes them so good.
I believe the OS is what makes them good. Windows even more so Vista simply can not manage certain things as well as OSX. I don't get frustrated over things like computers and i don't play but anyones boundries, I enjoy using Mac and PC's if at any time I decided I didn't want to purchase one or the other again I simply wouldn't. I would get annoyed if I bought an iphone and got a 3,000 bill, that would be annoying.
Your subsequent post is wrong by the way, it's not all down to hardware specs, it's down to your belief that you're smart enough to understand them. Even if you were to get your own way and have hardware freedom at which point would you acknowledge it wasn't freedom at all and would start pushing at the boundaries' of general PC hardware architecture? Of course by then you'd have broken the thing that worked so well - even if you couldn't figure out why.
McD
Oh im very certain I understand that. I help design multi million dollar systems, have for almost 20 years now, im farily certain I have a handle on the hardware as well as software. There isn't anything on the PC/Mac that I didn't work on 15+ years ago when it came to the mainframe first. Cache we use to call that DasD fast write, Raid been using Raid 0,1,5 for well over a decade. MVS, Os390, Unix, Jes2, CA products, SAS, VM, Assember, Rexx C++, please ive forgotten more than you will ever know.
IBM employees still get very good deals on Apple products.
It would be truly interesting if he put his OS out there along side MS to see how well it could truly compete head to head.
Apple uses a different business model from MS. There is no rule that says everyone needs to do things the same way. The irony of all of this is the troubles with Vista showing the disadvantage of trying to support too many systems. While OS X clearly shows the advantages of supporting a few systems.
The point is Walmart and Verizon have the buying power to compete with Apple,
You need good ideas and good execution as well as money. Walmart and Verizons V-Cast have been around for awhile and so far there isn't a big rush for either. Particularly V-Cast is a direct revenue stream meant to keep the customer paying money.
Anything that someone can download from Walmart, Real, Verizon can be played on any player including ipods and iphones.
This would only be hastle free for DRM free downloads which so far Walmart is the only of the three who will offer. Otherwise its not worth bothering with the DRM.
in fact it was Verizon that told Apple to go pound sand when it came to the iphone because they don't need Apple.
One big reason this would not have worked is because Verizon would have wanted to charge for every function of the iPhone.
I'm not sure what you mean by too many systems. Do you mean OS platforms or the fact that MS has 94% of the market?
[QUOTE=TenoBell;1130559]You need good ideas and good execution as well as money. Walmart and Verizons V-Cast have been around for awhile and so far there isn't a big rush for either. Particularly V-Cast is a direct revenue stream meant to keep the customer paying money.[\\QUOTE]
I would agree with V-Cast not much is going on there. Walmart however has the money and the marketing power not the mention the name alone to maket this grow if they want. iTunes even falls short in some areas while music and audiobooks have a very strong hold, movies and tv shows have not taken off very well. The selection isn't very good.
One big reason this would not have worked is because Verizon would have wanted to charge for every function of the iPhone.
It's only a guess but I think the biggest issue with Verizon was they wanted to control the situation. Have Apple sell them the phones and have Verizon discount them based on contracts, which of course Apple did not want and ATT was willing to do in an attempt to pull customers from Verizon. Only a guess but that seems logical.
The reason the movie selection in iTunes is low is because of the movie studios and their fear that Apple will execute its business plan so well that they loose control of the online distribution chanel. The same as happened with music.
As far as Verizon and the iPhone. Its a pretty sure bet the argument was over control. I don't want the mobile carriers dictating the functionality and limitations of our phones. That is how we've ended up with poor phones and crappy service.
i buy from itunes because it works so well
itunes is still the superior download store
ipod still the superior mp3 player
consumers want simple seemless technology
what they are offering is complexity
consumers speak loadly against complexity
SJ is selling simplicity.....and it sells well.
the race for the living room will be won with simple, seemless intergration apple is in the pole position and has a track record.
walmart will sell music most people have ipods, how many steps is there to buying from walmart and getting into the ipod vs buying from itunes and getting it into my ipod (someone try this). the vast majority of people dont wont do the extra steps. it's the seemless integration that makes itunes ipod work and it's success.
also isn't aac from apple a better compression qualtiy then mp3, so you have to have a larger mp3 file size to get the same quality as aac. so my shuffle holds fewer walmart songs. why do this as a consumer. they are looking to be number 2 in the download market, it's about them getting any market share. their business model is what.......let's be number 1????? i dont think so. their business model is to compete against the also rans..... they and wallstreet know this. have theri stock prices gone up after their announcement.....the market speaks loudly
I believe the OS is what makes them good. Windows even more so Vista simply can not manage certain things as well as OSX. I don't get frustrated over things like computers and i don't play but anyones boundries, I enjoy using Mac and PC's if at any time I decided I didn't want to purchase one or the other again I simply wouldn't. I would get annoyed if I bought an iphone and got a 3,000 bill, that would be annoying.
Oh and by the way people don't by their hardware because they love it so much, they buy it because you can't run their OS unless you buy it. Steve Jobs likes to create his own arena and only allow you to play within his boundries.
So you mentioned it because?
im very certain I understand that. I help design multi million dollar systems, have for almost 20 years now, im farily certain I have a handle on the hardware as well as software. There isn't anything on the PC/Mac that I didn't work on 15+ years ago when it came to the mainframe first. Cache we use to call that DasD fast write, Raid been using Raid 0,1,5 for well over a decade. MVS, Os390, Unix, Jes2, CA products, SAS, VM, Assember, Rexx C++, please ive forgotten more than you will ever know.
IBM employees still get very good deals on Apple products.
I won't question your Big Iron ops prowess (though most of the systems engineers & designers I've spoken to over the last 20 years still don't claim to have the whole thing down). Tell me, if every man & his dog made plugin componentry for IBM's real kit - would it be so resilient? Would OS390 have been so solid on Taiwan's (maybe not Hitachi's) cheapest clones? Aren't their mainfame and midrange products so reliable because they're relatively closed systems as well?
I'm happy that both IBM & Apple agree on that. This way my banking transactions don't screw up and I get some good kit to use at home as well.
McD
Actually after I read this sorry the next one I ran across was Walmart announced they are going to start selling DRM free mucic. Yeah it was like .94 per track or 9.22 per album.
I don't really see any of this as a bad thing, while I don't believe they will be able to take over itunes its nice to know that some competition is starting to form. It keeps prices in check, which is always good for the end user.
The Walmart site may be useful for PC users, but it doesn't support Mac or Linux. I can't see that iTunes has any threat here. Competition, yes. Threat? Not a chance.
Universal's challenge to Apple by selling DRM free music through Walmart and Google seems completely misguided. As the music is DRM free it should be trivial to take the music you bought from them and chuck it on your iPod. Unless of course they use some wacky proprietary format, in which case you'd need a extra step to convert it to MP3/ACC/whatever.
Sure, this will take away sales from the iTunes music store. But so what? Apple makes it's money from selling iPods, not from selling music on their store. People use the iTunes store because they have iPods, not the other way around. It's not like people go into an Apple store and scream: "I love your music store so much I bought 100 tracks! Now sell me an iPod so I can listen to all that sweet, sweet music!".
The iTunes store makes buying music and syncing it to an iPod easy - that's why people use it. But people still get most of their music by ripping CDs or downloading stuff from P2P networks. In Steve Jobs' open letter to the music industry he even acknowledged that the majority of music on iPods is not from the iTunes store.
So while iPods continue to dominate the music player market it really doesn't matter much to Apple where the music comes from. Sure, it's nice for them to be able to offer music directly to iTunes via the store, but it's not the huge earner for them that the iPod is.
Again, I don't think people buy iPods because of the iTunes store - they buy iPods because they're fashionable and easy to use. As long as music is being sold without DRM I don't see any major problems.
The worst Universal can do is make it difficult for people to get music they bought on their store to an iPod. If that's the case, then people won't bother to use their service and continue ripping CDs and downloading crap on Kazaa. Failing to work with the most popular music player on the market is nothing short of suicidal. Why else have so many other online stores failed?
So you mentioned it because?
I won't question your Big Iron ops prowess (though most of the systems engineers & designers I've spoken to over the last 20 years still don't claim to have the whole thing down). Tell me, if every man & his dog made plugin componentry for IBM's real kit - would it be so resilient? Would OS390 have been so solid on Taiwan's (maybe not Hitachi's) cheapest clones? Aren't their mainfame and midrange products so reliable because they're relatively closed systems as well?
I'm happy that both IBM & Apple agree on that. This way my banking transactions don't screw up and I get some good kit to use at home as well.
McD
That last statement gave me a good laugh. Only because I still wonder with all the batch screw ups how anyone actually gets an accurate credit card statement.
So you mentioned it because?
I won't question your Big Iron ops prowess (though most of the systems engineers & designers I've spoken to over the last 20 years still don't claim to have the whole thing down). Tell me, if every man & his dog made plugin componentry for IBM's real kit - would it be so resilient? Would OS390 have been so solid on Taiwan's (maybe not Hitachi's) cheapest clones? Aren't their mainfame and midrange products so reliable because they're relatively closed systems as well?
I'm happy that both IBM & Apple agree on that. This way my banking transactions don't screw up and I get some good kit to use at home as well.
McD
That last statement gave me a good laugh. Only because I still wonder with all the batch screw ups how anyone actually gets an accurate credit card statement.
IBM is fairly closed off and like Apple many times the close off and force the use of their products whent there is clearly a better option. Computer Associates is a perfect example.
Everyone always wants to compare a 2,400k Mac Pro to a 999.00 Gateway. If we compared it say to a system made by Velocity Mirco for the same price you would get , a Q6600 chip, 2gigs of Corsair Ram, Dual 400gig drives raid 0, 8800gts 320mg nividia gpu, Asus motherboard and top of the line case, and you would still have room to throw in a nice monitor out the door for the same price.
Now run a poll and im sure most would take the Micro Velocity option over the Mac Pro to run OsX on.
Steve Jobs in his keynotes always compares to Dell not because they build quality products but because they are the market share leaders. I have custome built system that ive done myself that are 5 years old and run wonderful and they were build for far less than a Mac. So not every PC dies after a year.
Also its not like Mac users haven't been asking for a mid range tower for years now.
As far as failure rates Apple notebooks have always had a fairly high failure rate due to heat issues.
The Walmart site may be useful for PC users, but it doesn't support Mac or Linux. I can't see that iTunes has any threat here. Competition, yes. Threat? Not a chance.
Yet again, most that use iTunes are PC users, remember they are the ones that have 94% of the market. iTunes as we all know is not a mac only product, neither are ipods most that use them are PC users not mac users.
i buy apple products because they work
i buy from itunes because it works so well
itunes is still the superior download store
ipod still the superior mp3 player
consumers want simple seemless technology
what they are offering is complexity
consumers speak loadly against complexity
SJ is selling simplicity.....and it sells well.
the race for the living room will be won with simple, seemless intergration apple is in the pole position and has a track record.
walmart will sell music most people have ipods, how many steps is there to buying from walmart and getting into the ipod vs buying from itunes and getting it into my ipod (someone try this). the vast majority of people dont wont do the extra steps. it's the seemless integration that makes itunes ipod work and it's success.
also isn't aac from apple a better compression qualtiy then mp3, so you have to have a larger mp3 file size to get the same quality as aac. so my shuffle holds fewer walmart songs. why do this as a consumer. they are looking to be number 2 in the download market, it's about them getting any market share. their business model is what.......let's be number 1????? i dont think so. their business model is to compete against the also rans..... they and wallstreet know this. have theri stock prices gone up after their announcement.....the market speaks loudly
It's one extra step. The extra step is hitting import into itunes, thats it.
It's one extra step. The extra step is hitting import into itunes, thats it.
Its multiple extra steps...you have to buy the thing from Walmart first...if its there. And you need to make sure you get the mp3 vs wma version. iTunes store is simpler if you're using it anyway to manage your music.
Personally, if I'm not going to bother with iTunes I might as well order the CD from Walmart or Amazon.
Vinea
Its multiple extra steps...you have to buy the thing from Walmart first...if its there. And you need to make sure you get the mp3 vs wma version. iTunes store is simpler if you're using it anyway to manage your music.
Personally, if I'm not going to bother with iTunes I might as well order the CD from Walmart or Amazon.
Vinea
Please its one extra step. Who the hell buys .wma versions of anything. You have to do all the same stuff in itunes when it comes to buying anything the only extra step is having to import into iTunes.
As far as buying CD's any smart person does that anyways that way you have a DRM free copy to do with as you wish.