Hmm..I guess most of what I see and hear in Japan is anecdotal - I have no access to facts and figures. But: my Vodafone unit hasn't had any signal coverage issues in the last couple years, and plenty of people in the US have complained of AT&T coverage but that didn't stop Apple partnering with them. And maybe YOU don't give a rats ass about Yahoo Mail but Apple clearly does don't they? The point is, it's built-in already to the iPhone AND to Softbank's structure.
SoftBank rescued the company from Vodafone who rescued the company from Jphone. They are still number three, despite the great campaign. Just look at their earnings and total customer base. I've been impressed with the handsets they offered, particularly in the last two years. But everywhere I've been, their signal coverage is mediocre. I hear about it all the time. But I've spent the bulk of my time in Kanto and Okinawa the last 6 years. I can't speak for Kansai. I'd say ask your Japanese friends what they think about Softbank's signal.
I never owned a cell phone in the US, but I'm told cell phone email there is fairly primitive or has been until recently. My US friends always complain about phone email or the lack of it. In Japan, keitai email is very advanced and accepted by its users. We don't need Yahoo mail, because our own phone mail systems work well enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by modz
Well that's the thing. Softbank are the one's most likely to capitulate TO Apple's conditions. They're the one gunning for growth. And experience shows that Apple DO care about Japan, that's why there's an iTunes store here and not anywhere else in Asia yet.
That's a good point, SoftBanks' financial position makes it more likely for them to accede to Apple's demands. But Apple want to choose a winner, and SoftBank may not fit that bill. And the Japanese government also has a fairly heavy hand in what goes on in the mobile phone industry. I wouldn't put it past them to favor the big guys because of political considerations - very typical in this country.
Apple cares about Japan? Hmmm - I hoped so but their sales are sliding here for the last couple of years and continue to do so. The reason we have an iTunes store here is that it may be the only place in Asia it would work. Nobody in China, Korea, Sinapore, Thailand is gonna pay $1 or ¥200 per song when they can get it for much, much cheaper. Call it black market, music piracy, or just different cultural sensibilties - they just aren't gonna go for that when there are cheaper alternatives. And much cheaper music players too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by modz
Well again this is just anecdotal isn't it? In my experience I would have put iPod usage at 50% minimum on the Kansai public transport scene. Can't speak for where you are. iPod ads aren't prevalent anywhere on the globe now, not just Japan - they don't need to - they're now the standard. And even if your math is right, in this particular market, for the iPod to carve out 30% on it's own is pretty good actually.
Well, Kansai is Kansai - Kanto is Kanto and I certainly wouldn't bet my life on my subway counts of music player users. But we have a quarter of the countries population here, and generally the rest of the coutry follows what Kanto does in terms of trends. Funny thing I noticed was that iPods were a minority until about 1.5 - 2 years ago, then more than half the people I saw had them about a year back, now it seems to have backed off again. Apple's sales report says the same thing - that iPod sales aren't so great they were last year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by modz
You got figures about those sales? You're right - there's no sub-notebook from Apple, but my understanding is that against the standard offerings from Sony, NEC, Fujitsu etc, the Macbook and Pro lines compete pretty well sales-wise. but until there are figures we're just talking hot air from opposite ends aren't we?
Find the latest SEC quarterly report (3rd quarter, 2007), do a search for Japan, pay particular attention to pages 26 and 30. You can see previous years too.
Last quarter was the first in a while that sales were flat compared to a year ago. So far this year, Apple has lost 11% of its total sales compared to last year. This is from both iPod and Mac sales. And last year's (2006) sales for Macs (not iPods) were down from the year prior. Apple's report claims that MacBook sales increased a bit - a surprise to me - but their MacBook Pro, Desktop Mac, and iPod sales were lower. So that means that people don't want to spend money on high end Mac laptops here. That suggests to me that the consumer here feels there are better values out there in the Windoze PC world. And ask your Japanese friends who commute by train if they would prefer to carry a 2.4 kg MacBook Pro or a 1.4 kg Panasonic LifeBook around.
The sad thing about Apple's Japan sales is that everywhere else in the world Apple is gaining something like 20-33% in sales! Japan is the number 3 consumer market in the world by some estimates. Apple should do a better job of catering to consumer demands here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by modz
Whatever, I believe Softbank are the outfit most likely to offer the iPhone in Japan because they're the best corporate fit and I believe they'll do it next year because Softbank - structural issues or not - are in a hurry to grow.
I think that Softbank wants to make some profit, and growth may be one of the paths to get there. Whether or not Apple thinks they are the best fit is another thing. I'll be happy to see the iPhone here in a year. But the pace at which businesses change the way they do things here, or accept newcomers is glacial. I'm sure you know that if you've been here a few years.
The sad thing about Apple's Japan sales is that everywhere else in the world Apple is gaining something like 20-33% in sales! Japan is the number 3 consumer market in the world by some estimates. Apple should do a better job of catering to consumer demands here.
I think the difference is that Apple faces much tougher competition in the market segments where they seem to excel, even if the Japanese are heavy buyers in more expensive electronics. Japanese makers seem to have a lot of sleek, compact products, most of which never leaves their shores.
Japan's markets are completely incestuous. For outsider companies to break in there... is nearly impossible.
Nearly impossible? Maybe if a company has Apple's attitude towards the country, yes.
Companies like Louis Vuitton get over half their sales from Japan. Starbucks and McDonalds are now ingrained in the Japanese public. Western movies, music and TV are big hits in Japan, with Japanese sales contributing significantly to worldwide grosses; oftentimes Japan is the second most popular region after the United States for these western films. Windows, like everywhere else, is the dominant OS.
Apple's shortcomings in Japan are no one but Apple's fault.
Comments
Hmm..I guess most of what I see and hear in Japan is anecdotal - I have no access to facts and figures. But: my Vodafone unit hasn't had any signal coverage issues in the last couple years, and plenty of people in the US have complained of AT&T coverage but that didn't stop Apple partnering with them. And maybe YOU don't give a rats ass about Yahoo Mail but Apple clearly does don't they? The point is, it's built-in already to the iPhone AND to Softbank's structure.
SoftBank rescued the company from Vodafone who rescued the company from Jphone. They are still number three, despite the great campaign. Just look at their earnings and total customer base. I've been impressed with the handsets they offered, particularly in the last two years. But everywhere I've been, their signal coverage is mediocre. I hear about it all the time. But I've spent the bulk of my time in Kanto and Okinawa the last 6 years. I can't speak for Kansai. I'd say ask your Japanese friends what they think about Softbank's signal.
I never owned a cell phone in the US, but I'm told cell phone email there is fairly primitive or has been until recently. My US friends always complain about phone email or the lack of it. In Japan, keitai email is very advanced and accepted by its users. We don't need Yahoo mail, because our own phone mail systems work well enough.
Well that's the thing. Softbank are the one's most likely to capitulate TO Apple's conditions. They're the one gunning for growth. And experience shows that Apple DO care about Japan, that's why there's an iTunes store here and not anywhere else in Asia yet.
That's a good point, SoftBanks' financial position makes it more likely for them to accede to Apple's demands. But Apple want to choose a winner, and SoftBank may not fit that bill. And the Japanese government also has a fairly heavy hand in what goes on in the mobile phone industry. I wouldn't put it past them to favor the big guys because of political considerations - very typical in this country.
Apple cares about Japan? Hmmm - I hoped so but their sales are sliding here for the last couple of years and continue to do so. The reason we have an iTunes store here is that it may be the only place in Asia it would work. Nobody in China, Korea, Sinapore, Thailand is gonna pay $1 or ¥200 per song when they can get it for much, much cheaper. Call it black market, music piracy, or just different cultural sensibilties - they just aren't gonna go for that when there are cheaper alternatives. And much cheaper music players too.
Well again this is just anecdotal isn't it? In my experience I would have put iPod usage at 50% minimum on the Kansai public transport scene. Can't speak for where you are. iPod ads aren't prevalent anywhere on the globe now, not just Japan - they don't need to - they're now the standard. And even if your math is right, in this particular market, for the iPod to carve out 30% on it's own is pretty good actually.
Well, Kansai is Kansai - Kanto is Kanto and I certainly wouldn't bet my life on my subway counts of music player users. But we have a quarter of the countries population here, and generally the rest of the coutry follows what Kanto does in terms of trends. Funny thing I noticed was that iPods were a minority until about 1.5 - 2 years ago, then more than half the people I saw had them about a year back, now it seems to have backed off again. Apple's sales report says the same thing - that iPod sales aren't so great they were last year.
You got figures about those sales? You're right - there's no sub-notebook from Apple, but my understanding is that against the standard offerings from Sony, NEC, Fujitsu etc, the Macbook and Pro lines compete pretty well sales-wise. but until there are figures we're just talking hot air from opposite ends aren't we?
No hot air, dude. Go here: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....357&p=irol-sec
Find the latest SEC quarterly report (3rd quarter, 2007), do a search for Japan, pay particular attention to pages 26 and 30. You can see previous years too.
Last quarter was the first in a while that sales were flat compared to a year ago. So far this year, Apple has lost 11% of its total sales compared to last year. This is from both iPod and Mac sales. And last year's (2006) sales for Macs (not iPods) were down from the year prior. Apple's report claims that MacBook sales increased a bit - a surprise to me - but their MacBook Pro, Desktop Mac, and iPod sales were lower. So that means that people don't want to spend money on high end Mac laptops here. That suggests to me that the consumer here feels there are better values out there in the Windoze PC world. And ask your Japanese friends who commute by train if they would prefer to carry a 2.4 kg MacBook Pro or a 1.4 kg Panasonic LifeBook around.
The sad thing about Apple's Japan sales is that everywhere else in the world Apple is gaining something like 20-33% in sales! Japan is the number 3 consumer market in the world by some estimates. Apple should do a better job of catering to consumer demands here.
Whatever, I believe Softbank are the outfit most likely to offer the iPhone in Japan because they're the best corporate fit and I believe they'll do it next year because Softbank - structural issues or not - are in a hurry to grow.
I think that Softbank wants to make some profit, and growth may be one of the paths to get there. Whether or not Apple thinks they are the best fit is another thing. I'll be happy to see the iPhone here in a year. But the pace at which businesses change the way they do things here, or accept newcomers is glacial. I'm sure you know that if you've been here a few years.
The sad thing about Apple's Japan sales is that everywhere else in the world Apple is gaining something like 20-33% in sales! Japan is the number 3 consumer market in the world by some estimates. Apple should do a better job of catering to consumer demands here.
I think the difference is that Apple faces much tougher competition in the market segments where they seem to excel, even if the Japanese are heavy buyers in more expensive electronics. Japanese makers seem to have a lot of sleek, compact products, most of which never leaves their shores.
Japan's markets are completely incestuous. For outsider companies to break in there... is nearly impossible.
Nearly impossible? Maybe if a company has Apple's attitude towards the country, yes.
Companies like Louis Vuitton get over half their sales from Japan. Starbucks and McDonalds are now ingrained in the Japanese public. Western movies, music and TV are big hits in Japan, with Japanese sales contributing significantly to worldwide grosses; oftentimes Japan is the second most popular region after the United States for these western films. Windows, like everywhere else, is the dominant OS.
Apple's shortcomings in Japan are no one but Apple's fault.