AT&T has aways give customers an unlock code for traveling outside the US and everyone know it. Although we all suppected that they might not do this with the iPhone until they started selling them no one knew for sure.
...
Personally I sick and tird of the carriers locking you in to their phones and not letting you use any sim with a phone you purchased. I for one hope that this suit has legs and that they win their case. It's about time for a "Carter phone" like decission to happen to the wireless carriers.
And why did he get three, maybe the other two are for his wife and child.
I think there is a difference between not advertising how to unlock the phone and coming after those people who do. ie. It should not be illegal (nor impossible) to unlock you phone.
DMCA kinda has this, but as phones get more and more complex, the software to unlock (and re-hookup to other visual voicemails, youtube etc.) may necessitate commerical software that can unlock phones.
In the UK there is a great business of side street phone shops who unlock phones. I can see why att store wouldn't want to do it for you, but they should allow others (businesses) to. Not to mention a GPL iPhone unlocker - that might(?) fight within the confines of the DMCA?
Gas Stations don't pay the car manufacturers to get their cars into specific gas stations.
AT&T are paying Apple part of the revenue, how does this work if it is unlocked?
Don't be so sure about that. When I open my gas door on my Ford Fusion, it says right there on the cap "We recommend BP" granted It'll work on other gas, but someone is paying Ford to put that on the gas caps.
Another thing people are forgetting about the partnership Apple and AT&T have, if you unlock the phone and use it on another network, Visual Voicemail ceases to work properly, there was a change that AT&T had to make to their network in order to accommodate some of the new breakthrough features of the iPhone.
What are people such idiots? Do they really think they can sue Apple for charges billed by phone providers, much less phone providers OTHER than ATT? Morons!
Visual Voicemail ceases to work properly, there was a change that AT&T had to make to their network in order to accommodate some of the new breakthrough features of the iPhone.
Who cares about visual voicemail? It's hardly that exciting. Regular voicemail will work fine.
And plenty of telcos let you access your voicemail via IMAP or POP too. That's almost the same.
Service Plans brochure available in Apple stores the first day of sales said:
"International Roaming: Substantial charges may be incurred if phone is taken out of the U.S. even if no services are intentionally used."
I assume there is similar wording in the activation/contract agreement.
It may suck that you can't unlock the phone, but I don't think Apple or AT&T were being misleading or deceptive.
I agree, everybody knows that if you leave your country or provider there will be roaming charges to pay.\I wish the iphone could be unlocked, especially when I travel to France, 20min away or when I go with my family on holiday to Spain, Italy or the UK. It is much cheaper to call if I am able to place a SIM card from the other country.
The EU has helped lately by forcing the mobile phone companies to reduce their rates to their roaming clients.
= Accept the world sucks and don't try to change it??
The best way a consumer can change anything is with their pocketbooks, not by being sue happy. Hate that the iPhone is locked, hate AT&T - DON'T BUY THE IPHONE!. You will still live without it.
Don't want to be locked into a contract, buy a phone at FULL PRICE. Stop taking free phones.
But this lawsuit stinks like the McDonalds coffee is hot lawsuit - DUH!
for future reference if you travel outside the states ----->
For various reasons, you may want to disable the iPhone?s EDGE/GPRS data network access on a temporary basis. For instance, if you have an international data plan and are traveling overseas but only want to use WiFi instead of paying international data charges, or if you are on a prepaid plan and don?t want to incur data charges.
An iPhone Atlas reader with the username ?amztselos? found out exactly how to do this, and here are his steps, slightly modified:
1. Call the International Group at ATT (800) 335-4685: amztselos says ?They may tell you that it is impossible to turn off the ?data plan? for the IPhone but that is incorrect.? You can.
2. Ask the representative enter a SOC code called ?NWIX? and then have them go into ?Snooper? and remove all GPRS functionality for your device.
Who cares about visual voicemail? It's hardly that exciting. Regular voicemail will work fine.
And plenty of telcos let you access your voicemail via IMAP or POP too. That's almost the same.
So when I'm in a meeting, as I am often, and receive 10 voicemail messages, (not uncommon) and I have a five minute break to check those messages, I have to listen to them first one in, first one out? Sorry, but there are a lot of people that do care about visual voicemail. It allows you to see the messages without first dialing into the system. Without activating and waiting for your email to sync. It is a feature that is breakthrough, and there are people that care. I am only pointing out that AT&T made the necessary changes on their end to make some of those features really work, no other carrier was willing to do that. Visual Voicemail is NOT the only feature that is made possible by this close collaboration. Remember, the iPhone runs on Mac OS X and could very easily have features added to it with simple software updates, having one carrier will make more innovation easier at this stage of the game.
Yes he is an idiot, but his lawyers obvoiusly think theres a chance to win.
And if he does you wont be chained to at and t anymore.
When you buy a car you have many places to fill up the gas tank, not just one, shouldnt it be the same with a cell phone?
If someone made a special car that required substantial reworking of highways for best results, I don't see why those companies who paid for the road shouldn't be rewarded exclusive rights to selling the car in order to recoup their expenses. Why should other companies benefit from AT&T's work?
Everyone knows that it's locked, it sux and annoys the hell out of everyone, but I don't know how anyone can complain that they did not know they were locked into a plan with AT&T!
Sorry, as much as I want someone to stop AT&T/Apple from locking the iPhone, they signed a contract stating that they did know they were locked into a plan and were fully aware of AT&T's call rates!
While I think it was widely known that the iPhone was locked to AT&T and that there is no chance in hell that he thought it wasn't locked to only AT&T, I do feel there might be a case for roaming charges. Apple / AT&T were misleading and didn't subnote being out of the country very well. This is happening to a lot of people... these $2k bills. I do think it's screwed up that you can't unlock your iPhone for travel without getting reamed in the ass. Apple DOES need to do something about that otherwise the iPhone is worthless and will be worthless to a lot of people who travel.
Also on another note, with the whole sim unlocking thing going on right now and AT&T trying to sue the company, I dont' feel it's going to hold up for AT&T. The DMCA has an exception that carriers must provide unlock codes for these specific reasons, so if that goes through and AT&T has to start providing that this lawsuit may have backing
Not being able to avoid roaming charges is a serious issue. This guy does have a valid case.
Sticking with the car analogy, imagine this: You buy a tank of gas in the US, then drive into Mexico. When you get home, you receive a retroactive bill from the US gas station that charges you for using that American gas while out of the country. Without question, if Apple/ATT allow no possible way for people to use another country's network directly while travelling (while still maintaining the contract they signed for US service), they deserve to be sued.
AT&T has aways give customers an unlock code for traveling outside the US and everyone know it. Although we all suppected that they might not do this with the iPhone until they started selling them no one knew for sure.
Always? Now, ATT has also said that the iPhone is excepted from that rule. I don't like it that certain information was only given after the initial release, such as the terms of the battery fix, the terms of the unlock policy. If people chose to be early adopters, then that's not anyone's problem but those that rushed to buy without asking questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo
= Accept the world sucks and don't try to change it??
If you want to change the world in a negative way, a lawsuit is the easiest way to do that. I think it's far better to teach people to look before they leap rather than blame someone else when it turns out, after the fact, that the pool is empty. Even when a given lawsuit has a given net positive effect, it's usually taken years to get there because lawsuits are probably the slowest legitimate way to resolve a dispute.
Comments
AT&T has aways give customers an unlock code for traveling outside the US and everyone know it. Although we all suppected that they might not do this with the iPhone until they started selling them no one knew for sure.
...
Personally I sick and tird of the carriers locking you in to their phones and not letting you use any sim with a phone you purchased. I for one hope that this suit has legs and that they win their case. It's about time for a "Carter phone" like decission to happen to the wireless carriers.
And why did he get three, maybe the other two are for his wife and child.
I think there is a difference between not advertising how to unlock the phone and coming after those people who do. ie. It should not be illegal (nor impossible) to unlock you phone.
DMCA kinda has this, but as phones get more and more complex, the software to unlock (and re-hookup to other visual voicemails, youtube etc.) may necessitate commerical software that can unlock phones.
In the UK there is a great business of side street phone shops who unlock phones. I can see why att store wouldn't want to do it for you, but they should allow others (businesses) to. Not to mention a GPL iPhone unlocker - that might(?) fight within the confines of the DMCA?
As far as it being tied to AT&T, well what part of "It requires a 2 year contract with AT&T" don't you understand?
Gas Stations don't pay the car manufacturers to get their cars into specific gas stations.
AT&T are paying Apple part of the revenue, how does this work if it is unlocked?
Don't be so sure about that. When I open my gas door on my Ford Fusion, it says right there on the cap "We recommend BP" granted It'll work on other gas, but someone is paying Ford to put that on the gas caps.
Another thing people are forgetting about the partnership Apple and AT&T have, if you unlock the phone and use it on another network, Visual Voicemail ceases to work properly, there was a change that AT&T had to make to their network in order to accommodate some of the new breakthrough features of the iPhone.
When you buy a car you have many places to fill up the gas tank, not just one, shouldnt it be the same with a cell phone?
Poor analogy - Yeah, and at some filling stations you pay $6.50 per gallon!! In other words, vacation where the gas is cheap!!
Sure it would be great for the damn thing to be unlocked, but this guy is a dumb ass - and so is his slavering lawyer.
Actually, this guy is probably the kind of dumb ass Apple was considering when they negotiated a piece of the revenue from AT&T
Visual Voicemail ceases to work properly, there was a change that AT&T had to make to their network in order to accommodate some of the new breakthrough features of the iPhone.
Who cares about visual voicemail? It's hardly that exciting. Regular voicemail will work fine.
And plenty of telcos let you access your voicemail via IMAP or POP too. That's almost the same.
Service Plans brochure available in Apple stores the first day of sales said:
"International Roaming: Substantial charges may be incurred if phone is taken out of the U.S. even if no services are intentionally used."
I assume there is similar wording in the activation/contract agreement.
It may suck that you can't unlock the phone, but I don't think Apple or AT&T were being misleading or deceptive.
I agree, everybody knows that if you leave your country or provider there will be roaming charges to pay.
The EU has helped lately by forcing the mobile phone companies to reduce their rates to their roaming clients.
As far as it being tied to AT&T, well what part of "It requires a 2 year contract with AT&T" don't you understand?
Being on a contract is one thing. Blocking the use of another SIM card while under that contract is another.
= Accept the world sucks and don't try to change it??
The best way a consumer can change anything is with their pocketbooks, not by being sue happy. Hate that the iPhone is locked, hate AT&T - DON'T BUY THE IPHONE!. You will still live without it.
Don't want to be locked into a contract, buy a phone at FULL PRICE. Stop taking free phones.
But this lawsuit stinks like the McDonalds coffee is hot lawsuit - DUH!
for future reference if you travel outside the states ----->
For various reasons, you may want to disable the iPhone?s EDGE/GPRS data network access on a temporary basis. For instance, if you have an international data plan and are traveling overseas but only want to use WiFi instead of paying international data charges, or if you are on a prepaid plan and don?t want to incur data charges.
An iPhone Atlas reader with the username ?amztselos? found out exactly how to do this, and here are his steps, slightly modified:
1. Call the International Group at ATT (800) 335-4685: amztselos says ?They may tell you that it is impossible to turn off the ?data plan? for the IPhone but that is incorrect.? You can.
2. Ask the representative enter a SOC code called ?NWIX? and then have them go into ?Snooper? and remove all GPRS functionality for your device.
http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2007/08/1...nes-data-plan/
pass it on...
The quick solution is to take out the SIM card.
Who cares about visual voicemail? It's hardly that exciting. Regular voicemail will work fine.
And plenty of telcos let you access your voicemail via IMAP or POP too. That's almost the same.
So when I'm in a meeting, as I am often, and receive 10 voicemail messages, (not uncommon) and I have a five minute break to check those messages, I have to listen to them first one in, first one out? Sorry, but there are a lot of people that do care about visual voicemail. It allows you to see the messages without first dialing into the system. Without activating and waiting for your email to sync. It is a feature that is breakthrough, and there are people that care. I am only pointing out that AT&T made the necessary changes on their end to make some of those features really work, no other carrier was willing to do that. Visual Voicemail is NOT the only feature that is made possible by this close collaboration. Remember, the iPhone runs on Mac OS X and could very easily have features added to it with simple software updates, having one carrier will make more innovation easier at this stage of the game.
Yes he is an idiot, but his lawyers obvoiusly think theres a chance to win.
And if he does you wont be chained to at and t anymore.
When you buy a car you have many places to fill up the gas tank, not just one, shouldnt it be the same with a cell phone?
If someone made a special car that required substantial reworking of highways for best results, I don't see why those companies who paid for the road shouldn't be rewarded exclusive rights to selling the car in order to recoup their expenses. Why should other companies benefit from AT&T's work?
Everyone knows that it's locked, it sux and annoys the hell out of everyone, but I don't know how anyone can complain that they did not know they were locked into a plan with AT&T!
Sorry, as much as I want someone to stop AT&T/Apple from locking the iPhone, they signed a contract stating that they did know they were locked into a plan and were fully aware of AT&T's call rates!
Who cares about visual voicemail? It's hardly that exciting. Regular voicemail will work fine.
And plenty of telcos let you access your voicemail via IMAP or POP too. That's almost the same.
Visual voicemail hardly exciting? Obviously you don't get that many voicemails. What an awesome feature it is.
Sticking with the car analogy, imagine this: You buy a tank of gas in the US, then drive into Mexico. When you get home, you receive a retroactive bill from the US gas station that charges you for using that American gas while out of the country. Without question, if Apple/ATT allow no possible way for people to use another country's network directly while travelling (while still maintaining the contract they signed for US service), they deserve to be sued.
AT&T has aways give customers an unlock code for traveling outside the US and everyone know it. Although we all suppected that they might not do this with the iPhone until they started selling them no one knew for sure.
Always? Now, ATT has also said that the iPhone is excepted from that rule. I don't like it that certain information was only given after the initial release, such as the terms of the battery fix, the terms of the unlock policy. If people chose to be early adopters, then that's not anyone's problem but those that rushed to buy without asking questions.
= Accept the world sucks and don't try to change it??
If you want to change the world in a negative way, a lawsuit is the easiest way to do that. I think it's far better to teach people to look before they leap rather than blame someone else when it turns out, after the fact, that the pool is empty. Even when a given lawsuit has a given net positive effect, it's usually taken years to get there because lawsuits are probably the slowest legitimate way to resolve a dispute.
I believe, after signing up for a Wi-Fi site, wherever, for a specified amount of time, there is no additional charge.
On the face of it, this looks like Mr. Kliegerman is blaming some else for his actions.