People should NOT have to pay twice to use a song or snippet of a song they already own. Totally insane that Apple should support this consumer-hostile point of view.
They're not charging you twice for a song. They're just charging you a service fee to convert the song.
And who says Apple is thinking different than the phone carriers?
People should NOT have to pay twice to use a song or snippet of a song they already own. Totally insane that Apple should support this consumer-hostile point of view.
I think that the problem is that the RIAA thinks that even ripping a CD to your hard drive (a CD that you own) is stealing. And, if they could, they would sue your a** into the stone-age.
But more pertinent to this discussion, according to the RIAA, when you purchase a CD, you have purchased a license for personal listening only. This does not include letting a friend also listen to the CD (if they want to listen to it, they should purchase a license themselves), and it certainly does not include a public performance of any part of the CD (again, like radio does, you should purchase a license to make public performances of copyrighted music).
Apple, unlike other phone makers, is in a strange situation with the RIAA. Because of the iTS, they can't just tell them to f*** off, or the record companies will pull their content from the iTS. I'm sure that Apple will do the best that they can for their customers, but you can't expect miracles.
As biggsjm said, the fee will likely be the similar to upgrading your EMI music from DRM to DRM-free (what 30 cents?).
These will be the same people who buy tv shows off of the iTMS when they miss recording them. Even though they've already paid for the shows once via their monthly cable/satellite charges.
Did you mean that I would buy a tv show off of iTunes. That is something I haven't done and won't until the quality goes way up. It makes more sense to buy the DVD that has the higher quality and all the extras. Then if I had a video iPod, I could use Visual Hub or some other application out there that will easily convert it down to the size needed. This is multiple use from one purchase.
Revenues from the sale of ringtones in the U.S. topped $600 million in 2006, up from $68 million in 2003, according to BMI, a collection society for songwriters and publishers. Meanwhile, worldwide sales last year are reported to have totaled $3.5 billion.
Wow, does anyone else find this entirely sad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BdeRWest
Hey has anyone noticed the ringtone in all the iPhone commercials and videos from Apple is not included on the phone? The plain old ring? No where on the phone!
I love my iPhone, but seriously, sometimes I want the ring to sound a little more professional than a happy marimba tunes when someone calls.
Where's the freaking ring Apple? No wonder you aren't appealing to the Wall Street crowd!
Wow, you have an extrordinary point... that ringtone isn't in the iPhone! I never noticed.
However, your argument begins to break down in your last paragraph... My boss's ringtone on his BlackJack is some RnB shiznit. It always makes me laugh because it totally doesn't seem to be his type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by britwithgoodteeth
Do you even understand what the word "materialistic" means?
"Step away from the mirror"?
Yeah, doesn't it mean the exact same thing as vain?
Ambrosia Software has released iToner, a Mac OS X tool that allows you to transfer custom ringtones for your iPhone - without modifying, hacking or having to reset your iPhone. You drag and drop MP3 or AAC audio files on iToner’s window, click the Sync button, and the items are automatically moved into the iPhone’s ringtones section. Ambrosia says the ringtones will continue to work with future iPhone OS updates.
In the ITMS licence agreement it specifically states that the downloaded songs are not licenced to be used as ringtones. I am sure it was a restriction that the record companies demanded to post their content so that they could still bank off of ringtones, but anyone who is outraged that they would charge you for this additional service ought to read the things they are signing a bit more, and realize what exactly it is that you are paying for. (dunno if this applies to iTunes Plus music)
It's a kick-back to AT&T for allowing Apple to control media purchases through iTunes. We'll certainly see a mobile iTunes very soon, since this would be the #1 reason why people on an iPhone would want to purchase music or convert their existing tunes (for the fee) on the go.
( got something in my eye )
Kick-back to AT&T or "Royalties" kick-back to the song artist??? You know the person singing the song about 'all you need is love', or 'give peace a chance', or 'we are the world' when in reality these artists show their 'true colors' because it's all about the 'MONEY, that's what I want'!
Waiting for the sarcasm to come running in. You have to be joking, right? If anyone says they won't by a phone because of the lack of ringtone support is HIGHLY materialistic and needs to step away from the mirror.
I'm not at all materialistic (no more than the next person, anyway), I just refuse to be nickel-and-dimed to death and I won't pay for the priveledge of doing what I want to do with the things I own. If the iPhone wants to treat me that way, I'll stick with my RAZR which lets me use any soundfile and a ringtone - for free.
I'm not at all materialistic (no more than the next person, anyway)
Materialistic was the wrong word, but still, ringtones a determining factor in purchasing a phone? You get my point, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknova
I just refuse to be nickel-and-dimed to death and I won't pay for the priveledge of doing what I want to do with the things I own. If the iPhone wants to treat me that way, I'll stick with my RAZR which lets me use any soundfile and a ringtone - for free.
Not if you're with verizon and haven't hacked your phone to allow it.
Materialistic was the wrong word, but still, ringtones a determining factor in purchasing a phone? You get my point, right?
Not if you're with verizon and haven't hacked your phone to allow it.
I just wanted to agree with Clocknova and getting ringtones that you want with the RAZR phone.
As a point of info to crees!. You don't have to hack anything. I have a RAZR phone with Verizon. I don't buy ringtones because I make my own. The RAZR has a recorder so you can record any portion of a song you want (as long as it is playing on a speaker to record off of ). Then you take that recording and use it as a ringtone. The phone itself allows you to do this.
I'm not at all materialistic (no more than the next person, anyway), I just refuse to be nickel-and-dimed to death and I won't pay for the priveledge of doing what I want to do with the things I own. If the iPhone wants to treat me that way, I'll stick with my RAZR which lets me use any soundfile and a ringtone - for free.
I'll ditto that. If Apple is planning to charge you to put ringtones on your iPhone, then it's probably just the beginning of the nickel-and-diming.
Could it also be because the ringtone might be heard in a public place, so you?re essentially paying for rights to play the song publicly?
That seems like a stretch, and I think the rights holders might claim that, though I'm sure they would claim the moon and the stars if they could. It's not likely going to be the whole song though, and it's not as if the iPhone is that loud.
I'll ditto that. If Apple is planning to charge you to put ringtones on your iPhone, then it's probably just the beginning of the nickel-and-diming.
But has it been established that Apple has control over this? They might not have the contractual right from the recording industry to let you convert the files to ring tones for free.
The RAZR example notwithstanding, remember that this is a $600 million industry. People all over are paying through the nose for these ringtones and ya'll are crying about a fee that hasn't been announced yet. If it is a small fee it would still be better than the vast majority of options people have out there.
Personally, I've always thought that ringtones were the first sign of the global apocalypse, anyway. The fact that the telco industry managed to wave a shiny object in front of us to distract us from the pitiful state of customer service and call sound quality for this long is surely proof that we're not as smart a species as we'd like to think.
Having said that, I do think that ringtones SHOULD be free. I certainly wouldn't pay for one, in any event. But the fact of the matter is that they are NOT free. Playing your stereo really loud and recording it with the RAZR's cheap little microphone is hardly what I'd call a free ringtone. It's a cheesy workaround, which, sadly, produces what some people would call acceptable results. I guess the little speakers on these phones are so lame anyway that it doesn't make much difference.
A lot of people pay $2.99 and up for ringtones on a regular basis (a statistic that I still find completely astounding) so there's no reason why a company such as Apple or AT&T shouldn't get in on the gravy train. If they offer anything resembling what was described here in the article, it will be a great bargain, compared to what Verizon, the company with which so many wished Apple had offered the iPhone, officially offers (above jury-rigged method notwithstanding).
The record labels will get their cut. AT&T will get its cut. Apple will get its cut. The musicians and the customers will get screwed, as usual. Serves them right for signing up with a record label in the first place, and serves us right for being dumb enough to want our phones to play songs at us from crappy little speakers.
But has it been established that Apple has control over this? They might not have the contractual right from the recording industry to let you convert the files to ring tones for free.
The RAZR example notwithstanding, remember that this is a $600 million industry. People all over are paying through the nose for these ringtones and ya'll are crying about a fee that hasn't been announced yet. If it is a small fee it would still be better than the vast majority of options people have out there.
So what? I don't care whose fault it is, and I don't care what size the industry is, how many suckers will pay money for this stuff, and I still don't care if it's a small fee compared to anyone else. It's still stupid in my opinion.
Comments
I did. You quoted badly. Here's a bigger quote:
props
People should NOT have to pay twice to use a song or snippet of a song they already own. Totally insane that Apple should support this consumer-hostile point of view.
They're not charging you twice for a song. They're just charging you a service fee to convert the song.
And who says Apple is thinking different than the phone carriers?
People should NOT have to pay twice to use a song or snippet of a song they already own. Totally insane that Apple should support this consumer-hostile point of view.
I think that the problem is that the RIAA thinks that even ripping a CD to your hard drive (a CD that you own) is stealing. And, if they could, they would sue your a** into the stone-age.
But more pertinent to this discussion, according to the RIAA, when you purchase a CD, you have purchased a license for personal listening only. This does not include letting a friend also listen to the CD (if they want to listen to it, they should purchase a license themselves), and it certainly does not include a public performance of any part of the CD (again, like radio does, you should purchase a license to make public performances of copyrighted music).
Apple, unlike other phone makers, is in a strange situation with the RIAA. Because of the iTS, they can't just tell them to f*** off, or the record companies will pull their content from the iTS. I'm sure that Apple will do the best that they can for their customers, but you can't expect miracles.
As biggsjm said, the fee will likely be the similar to upgrading your EMI music from DRM to DRM-free (what 30 cents?).
They're not charging you twice for a song. They're just charging you a service fee to convert the song.
And who says Apple is thinking different than the phone carriers?
Could it also be because the ringtone might be heard in a public place, so you?re essentially paying for rights to play the song publicly?
These will be the same people who buy tv shows off of the iTMS when they miss recording them. Even though they've already paid for the shows once via their monthly cable/satellite charges.
Did you mean that I would buy a tv show off of iTunes. That is something I haven't done and won't until the quality goes way up. It makes more sense to buy the DVD that has the higher quality and all the extras. Then if I had a video iPod, I could use Visual Hub or some other application out there that will easily convert it down to the size needed. This is multiple use from one purchase.
Revenues from the sale of ringtones in the U.S. topped $600 million in 2006, up from $68 million in 2003, according to BMI, a collection society for songwriters and publishers. Meanwhile, worldwide sales last year are reported to have totaled $3.5 billion.
Wow, does anyone else find this entirely sad?
Hey has anyone noticed the ringtone in all the iPhone commercials and videos from Apple is not included on the phone? The plain old ring? No where on the phone!
I love my iPhone, but seriously, sometimes I want the ring to sound a little more professional than a happy marimba tunes when someone calls.
Where's the freaking ring Apple? No wonder you aren't appealing to the Wall Street crowd!
Wow, you have an extrordinary point... that ringtone isn't in the iPhone! I never noticed.
However, your argument begins to break down in your last paragraph... My boss's ringtone on his BlackJack is some RnB shiznit. It always makes me laugh because it totally doesn't seem to be his type.
Do you even understand what the word "materialistic" means?
"Step away from the mirror"?
Yeah, doesn't it mean the exact same thing as vain?
People need to be less stupid.
-Clive
http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2007/08/3...-jailbreaking/
Ambrosia Software has released iToner, a Mac OS X tool that allows you to transfer custom ringtones for your iPhone - without modifying, hacking or having to reset your iPhone. You drag and drop MP3 or AAC audio files on iToner’s window, click the Sync button, and the items are automatically moved into the iPhone’s ringtones section. Ambrosia says the ringtones will continue to work with future iPhone OS updates.
Steve
It's a kick-back to AT&T for allowing Apple to control media purchases through iTunes. We'll certainly see a mobile iTunes very soon, since this would be the #1 reason why people on an iPhone would want to purchase music or convert their existing tunes (for the fee) on the go.
(
Kick-back to AT&T or "Royalties" kick-back to the song artist??? You know the person singing the song about 'all you need is love', or 'give peace a chance', or 'we are the world' when in reality these artists show their 'true colors' because it's all about the 'MONEY, that's what I want'!
Waiting for the sarcasm to come running in. You have to be joking, right? If anyone says they won't by a phone because of the lack of ringtone support is HIGHLY materialistic and needs to step away from the mirror.
I'm not at all materialistic (no more than the next person, anyway), I just refuse to be nickel-and-dimed to death and I won't pay for the priveledge of doing what I want to do with the things I own. If the iPhone wants to treat me that way, I'll stick with my RAZR which lets me use any soundfile and a ringtone - for free.
Look, no one is stupid enough to give this away for free. And I am fine with that. As long as its cheap and I get to use the song the way I want.
Then you're an idiot.
I'm not at all materialistic (no more than the next person, anyway)
Materialistic was the wrong word, but still, ringtones a determining factor in purchasing a phone? You get my point, right?
I just refuse to be nickel-and-dimed to death and I won't pay for the priveledge of doing what I want to do with the things I own. If the iPhone wants to treat me that way, I'll stick with my RAZR which lets me use any soundfile and a ringtone - for free.
Not if you're with verizon and haven't hacked your phone to allow it.
Materialistic was the wrong word, but still, ringtones a determining factor in purchasing a phone? You get my point, right?
Not if you're with verizon and haven't hacked your phone to allow it.
I just wanted to agree with Clocknova and getting ringtones that you want with the RAZR phone.
As a point of info to crees!. You don't have to hack anything. I have a RAZR phone with Verizon. I don't buy ringtones because I make my own. The RAZR has a recorder so you can record any portion of a song you want (as long as it is playing on a speaker to record off of ). Then you take that recording and use it as a ringtone. The phone itself allows you to do this.
They're not charging you twice for a song. They're just charging you a service fee to convert the song.
And who says Apple is thinking different than the phone carriers?
differentLY....
I'm not at all materialistic (no more than the next person, anyway), I just refuse to be nickel-and-dimed to death and I won't pay for the priveledge of doing what I want to do with the things I own. If the iPhone wants to treat me that way, I'll stick with my RAZR which lets me use any soundfile and a ringtone - for free.
I'll ditto that. If Apple is planning to charge you to put ringtones on your iPhone, then it's probably just the beginning of the nickel-and-diming.
Could it also be because the ringtone might be heard in a public place, so you?re essentially paying for rights to play the song publicly?
That seems like a stretch, and I think the rights holders might claim that, though I'm sure they would claim the moon and the stars if they could. It's not likely going to be the whole song though, and it's not as if the iPhone is that loud.
This is one service that I would never use.
I just don't see any point in this.
I'll ditto that. If Apple is planning to charge you to put ringtones on your iPhone, then it's probably just the beginning of the nickel-and-diming.
But has it been established that Apple has control over this? They might not have the contractual right from the recording industry to let you convert the files to ring tones for free.
The RAZR example notwithstanding, remember that this is a $600 million industry. People all over are paying through the nose for these ringtones and ya'll are crying about a fee that hasn't been announced yet. If it is a small fee it would still be better than the vast majority of options people have out there.
Having said that, I do think that ringtones SHOULD be free. I certainly wouldn't pay for one, in any event. But the fact of the matter is that they are NOT free. Playing your stereo really loud and recording it with the RAZR's cheap little microphone is hardly what I'd call a free ringtone. It's a cheesy workaround, which, sadly, produces what some people would call acceptable results. I guess the little speakers on these phones are so lame anyway that it doesn't make much difference.
A lot of people pay $2.99 and up for ringtones on a regular basis (a statistic that I still find completely astounding) so there's no reason why a company such as Apple or AT&T shouldn't get in on the gravy train. If they offer anything resembling what was described here in the article, it will be a great bargain, compared to what Verizon, the company with which so many wished Apple had offered the iPhone, officially offers (above jury-rigged method notwithstanding).
The record labels will get their cut. AT&T will get its cut. Apple will get its cut. The musicians and the customers will get screwed, as usual. Serves them right for signing up with a record label in the first place, and serves us right for being dumb enough to want our phones to play songs at us from crappy little speakers.
But has it been established that Apple has control over this? They might not have the contractual right from the recording industry to let you convert the files to ring tones for free.
The RAZR example notwithstanding, remember that this is a $600 million industry. People all over are paying through the nose for these ringtones and ya'll are crying about a fee that hasn't been announced yet. If it is a small fee it would still be better than the vast majority of options people have out there.
So what? I don't care whose fault it is, and I don't care what size the industry is, how many suckers will pay money for this stuff, and I still don't care if it's a small fee compared to anyone else. It's still stupid in my opinion.
Yo gotta' be realistic Jeff their's no way in hell the music industry would let ring tones be free.