Never thought I'd say this but... 99 cents for a TV episode may be too cheap.
You can undercut the DVD pricing some (all else being equal, studios realize greater profit on a download, no physical DVDs to pay manufacturing and shipping costs on) but not a lot.
And the pricing is pretty darn variable on DVD too.
Looking at Heroes on DVD at Amazon, thats $39.99 for 23 episodes, or around $1.74 an episode.
But look at Weeds, Season 2 (great show, btw). $24.99 for 12 episodes, or about $2.08 an episode.
Yes, DVDs have extras on them, and don't take up HD space. They should command a moderate price premium. But a 75-105% premium over those proposed 99 cent dloads? I don't think so.
And at that price point, the studios would appear to be making less money too... does anyone really think they'd sign up for that? Not to mention that many consumers will then be going, "Hey Steve, a 500 MB TV show dload shouldn't cost the same as a 4MB song. Where's the music price cuts??"
Probably $1.49 for TV episodes is a more common sense price point, if Steve really wants to get things jumping.
So I see a few issues. Yes storage is cheap, but really, we are going to get to a point where between Movies, Music, and TV its just too cumbersome to maintain all of this content at home for the "average" person. As bandwidth throttles up, you might see online storage of purchased content (which begs the question of what happens to it if that service or the owner of the DRM key goes under) and you might see an increase of subscription services (at least for movies and TV).
That being said. . . I think that the cheaper we make some TV (especially reality TV and other content with no real replay value) the better. ,99 is perfect for me to go out and buy an episode of 30 Days or Top Chef and watch it and then I can delete it or lose it without crying too much. On the other hand, I probably wouldn't be as inclined to buy Heroes, the Office, etc. and then throw them away. I want to maintain those. I would be fine with 1.99 for those shows.
Ultimately though, I think this points to the need for a good subscription model for TV and Movies. Music you would purchase a'la carte. But Movies and Music you would "rent" for a service fee. Something like this. . .
1. 3.99 per month - 1 Movie Rental and Unlimited "Catalog" TV (catalog meaning not from the current season)
2. 7.99 per month - 2 Movie Rentals and Unlimited "Catalog" TV (catalog meaning not from the current season)
3. 11.99 per month - 3 Movie Rentals and Unlimited "Catalog" TV (catalog meaning not from the current season)
First Run TV Shows - you would add to your monthly fee for 2.99 per show.
So assume you watch Heroes, The Office, Battlestar Gallactica, CSI, and Top Chef. You want 2 Movies per month too.
Your cost would be - $7.99 + (2.99 x 4) = 19.95 per month.
Now, in reality, the better way to go (assuming you have an apple TV) is to simply DVR the OTA shows and buy only Pay-TV Content so how about . . .
Top Chef, The Wire, Damages, Sleeper Cell, and Dexter. You want 2 Movies per month too.
Your cost would be - $7.99 + (2.99 x 5) = 22.94 per month.
Sounds good to me. . . because I can drop Cable.
I think cable COs would get pissed at that, and remember, Scifi, MTV comedy central, showtime and the like are loyal to cable because that is and will be their main profit stream: remember, they are first in the business of selling ads, if you watch, all the better..
I would love it, I usually delete the DailyShow after 3 weeks anyhow...so why spend cash "buying"
I think so too. The fact that I really can't resell a download cuts their value to me by maybe half. If I buy a DVD set for $40, don't like it, I might be able to jettison it for $20. Or even just give it away to someone that would appreciate having it, with DVD that would be a legal way to share the joy, with downloads, that's not legal.
This is kindof an annoyance of mine: why cant you return DVDs or downloads? If I buy a chair that looks bad in the room, I return it, if I buy a book that I end up not liking, I return it, hell, ladies regularly return purfume that they got as gifts after sampling the oder..., but with CD\\DVD\\download delivered content I can not, that seems like a glaring consumer rights issue...someone call Ralph Nader
If they came to canada with prices like that (most likely 1.39cad) I'd definetly buy for when I miss an episode or two. Yeah there's bittorrent but at a buck 30-40, I couldn't be bothered, plus then there's no conversion for ipods then.
And I'd still buy the DVD boxed sets I perfer that to downloads because I lend to them to friends and I like extra features.
[QUOTE=JeffDM;1139631]That would be nice, but I doubt it's up to Apple. Think about it - if they had those rights, why would they be holding out on it for so long?
I know - but one of Apple's strengths is getting companys to see the bigger picture vis the Starbucks deal this week. Given the lengths the MPAA go to (e.g. DVD region coding) our Steve would need the patience of Job (sic) to float the deal!
Converted to $ using current exchange rate... for convenient comparison
Lost Season 3:
DVD at Amazon.co.uk $90.85
DVD at Amazon.com $38.99
A factor of 2.3 more expensive in the UK on DVD at Amazon
Wow, I really feel bad for you all across the pond. This kind of disparity seems to be true of just about everything that one consumes day-to-day (except for quasi-public goods, such as health care, education, and so forth..... but that is another topic).
What is it with the pricing in the EU? How (and why) do you all put up with this type of gouging?
And is it somewhat due to the high taxes they tend to have over there? \
.
Yes, but my guess is, not by much more than 8% - 12%. In the US, most big cities add a sales tax in the 7% - 8% range and the VAT in the EU is the region of 15% to 22% "standard" (and often much lower for a whole range of products).
I do use the iPod and iTunes for digital content. I also buy CDs, DVDs, I use Netflix, I have cable and video on demand, I will also use Joost when it becomes available.
There are many ways to access content. So no I don't believe iTunes will ever be the only option.
I believe one of your first replies said that Apple was just giving the television a push in the direction it was going. I can only assume that meant some form of download service for media.
Which means no CDs, DVDs, Netflix...only download services like iTunes, Amazon Unbox, Joost (not familiar with how that one works), cable's VOD service. With Apple not having to care whether it makes a profit on downloads, it can price all but cable out of business. So you're down to two choices: Apple or cable. Maybe some form of cable allows it, but most VOD expires after 24 hours. Meaning I'll never be able to own the media, I might be stuck in a perpetual renting cycle with VOD and that leaves the only game to actually (sort of) own my media would be Apple and whatever hardware it deems to give me.
I believe one of your first replies said that Apple was just giving the television a push in the direction it was going. I can only assume that meant some form of download service for media.
What I mean is that Apple is pushing music and television to make digital downloads into a viable business where people could just as easily download the same content for free. I think its an over estimation that Apple needs lower price content to sell iPods. When there is nothing at all that prevents anyone from getting the content for free and loading that onto an iPod.
Yes the market is moving in that direction of downloading content. But no I don't believe that iTunes will be the only way to receive content. Apple will not out price cable, netflix, and all others because they use entirely different business models which have their own advantages.
Joost is an ad supported download service that is still in beta. But we'll all be hearing about it soon.
Wow, I really feel bad for you all across the pond. This kind of disparity seems to be true of just about everything that one consumes day-to-day (except for quasi-public goods, such as health care, education, and so forth..... but that is another topic).
What is it with the pricing in the EU? How (and why) do you all put up with this type of gouging?
We don't - government stats for this year so that 385000 people left the country for a better life!
How can they sell a show for 99 cents that i paid $1.99 for? Thats not fair!! i am going to cry and cry like a little girl, stamp my feet and write emails of complaint to Steve Jobs. He has betrayed my trust and loyalty to brand Apple, i have devoted my life to Apple, spent every penny i ever earned on little white boxes, daily masturbated to the WWWC podcast and go to sleep everynight in my Steve Jobs pyjamas and this is how he treats me?? maah, maah, maah i want a credit to cover the cost of my loss and i wont stop bitching till i get one, maah, maah, maah.
I would definitely bite if the shows would go for $.99! But what i'm missing the most is a HD section, and i was disappointed to hear that there was no change in the resolution support on the new iPods, still 640x480 But HD would be sweet!
How can they sell a show for 99 cents that i paid $1.99 for? Thats not fair!! i am going to cry and cry like a little girl, stamp my feet and write emails of complaint to Steve Jobs. He has betrayed my trust and loyalty to brand Apple, i have devoted my life to Apple, spent every penny i ever earned on little white boxes, daily masturbated to the WWWC podcast and go to sleep everynight in my Steve Jobs pyjamas and this is how he treats me?? maah, maah, maah i want a credit to cover the cost of my loss and i wont stop bitching till i get one, maah, maah, maah.
I think your post would have some credibility if you didn't leave out one key piece of the iPhone complaints. Save for that, your post is just an empty strawman attack.
I think your post would have some credibility if you didn't leave out one key piece of the iPhone complaints. Save for that, your post is just an empty strawman attack.
I'm almost always for price reductions, but I don't have a lot of complaints about the current pricing. An hour-long television show costs 1/5th the cost of a 2-hour movie (less than 1/7th of a "premium" or new movie). It seems to me that movies and TV shows are many orders of magnitude more expensive to produce than songs, which seem quite reasonably priced at $0.99 ea.
My biggest complaints about the iTunes Music Store in regards to the video downloads is the lack of content and the lack of High Definition content.
We use video content very frequently. On the iPod/laptop it's great on business trips, and we use a second iPod with Video in the car so our toddler can watch his Disney shows on the DVD entertainment system (the iPod plugs right in). If we're walking around the mall and he gets cranky, we hand him the ipod to watch as he's falling asleep. It's enormously convenient. We just wish there was more video content -- we can't even get our hands on some popular Disney shows it seems. I honestly never want to use another DVD again.
We also have an Apple TV. This is a truly remarkable device that we just love, but I've been waiting and waiting (and waiting!) for high-definition content. The downloads from the Apple store don't look bad, but they're certainly not as clean as regular DVDs and aren't even close to HD-DVDs. H.264 is an incredible codec, but you can see a fair amount of artifacting at the 1500kbps encoding rate Apple uses. That's the most the iPods can support (Apple TV supports 2500, I think, for h.264 but they should look at upgrading that Pentium M 1000 proc they're using). Come on, Apple!
Converted to $ using current exchange rate... for convenient comparison
Lost Season 3:
DVD at Amazon.co.uk $90.85
DVD at Amazon.com $38.99
A factor of 2.3 more expensive in the UK on DVD at Amazon
iTunes Music Store UK $66.63
iTunes Music Store US $34.99
A factor of 1.9 more expensive in the UK at the iTunes Music Store
Looks like Apple are, 'relatively', giving us in the UK a good deal. Anyway, I guess it's best to think of it that way when we are being charged around double US prices!
There must be a huge black market for DVDs in the UK.
Comments
You can undercut the DVD pricing some (all else being equal, studios realize greater profit on a download, no physical DVDs to pay manufacturing and shipping costs on) but not a lot.
And the pricing is pretty darn variable on DVD too.
Looking at Heroes on DVD at Amazon, thats $39.99 for 23 episodes, or around $1.74 an episode.
But look at Weeds, Season 2 (great show, btw). $24.99 for 12 episodes, or about $2.08 an episode.
Yes, DVDs have extras on them, and don't take up HD space. They should command a moderate price premium. But a 75-105% premium over those proposed 99 cent dloads? I don't think so.
And at that price point, the studios would appear to be making less money too... does anyone really think they'd sign up for that? Not to mention that many consumers will then be going, "Hey Steve, a 500 MB TV show dload shouldn't cost the same as a 4MB song. Where's the music price cuts??"
Probably $1.49 for TV episodes is a more common sense price point, if Steve really wants to get things jumping.
.
So I see a few issues. Yes storage is cheap, but really, we are going to get to a point where between Movies, Music, and TV its just too cumbersome to maintain all of this content at home for the "average" person. As bandwidth throttles up, you might see online storage of purchased content (which begs the question of what happens to it if that service or the owner of the DRM key goes under) and you might see an increase of subscription services (at least for movies and TV).
That being said. . . I think that the cheaper we make some TV (especially reality TV and other content with no real replay value) the better. ,99 is perfect for me to go out and buy an episode of 30 Days or Top Chef and watch it and then I can delete it or lose it without crying too much. On the other hand, I probably wouldn't be as inclined to buy Heroes, the Office, etc. and then throw them away. I want to maintain those. I would be fine with 1.99 for those shows.
Ultimately though, I think this points to the need for a good subscription model for TV and Movies. Music you would purchase a'la carte. But Movies and Music you would "rent" for a service fee. Something like this. . .
1. 3.99 per month - 1 Movie Rental and Unlimited "Catalog" TV (catalog meaning not from the current season)
2. 7.99 per month - 2 Movie Rentals and Unlimited "Catalog" TV (catalog meaning not from the current season)
3. 11.99 per month - 3 Movie Rentals and Unlimited "Catalog" TV (catalog meaning not from the current season)
First Run TV Shows - you would add to your monthly fee for 2.99 per show.
So assume you watch Heroes, The Office, Battlestar Gallactica, CSI, and Top Chef. You want 2 Movies per month too.
Your cost would be - $7.99 + (2.99 x 4) = 19.95 per month.
Now, in reality, the better way to go (assuming you have an apple TV) is to simply DVR the OTA shows and buy only Pay-TV Content so how about . . .
Top Chef, The Wire, Damages, Sleeper Cell, and Dexter. You want 2 Movies per month too.
Your cost would be - $7.99 + (2.99 x 5) = 22.94 per month.
Sounds good to me. . . because I can drop Cable.
I think cable COs would get pissed at that, and remember, Scifi, MTV comedy central, showtime and the like are loyal to cable because that is and will be their main profit stream: remember, they are first in the business of selling ads, if you watch, all the better..
I would love it, I usually delete the DailyShow after 3 weeks anyhow...so why spend cash "buying"
I think so too. The fact that I really can't resell a download cuts their value to me by maybe half. If I buy a DVD set for $40, don't like it, I might be able to jettison it for $20. Or even just give it away to someone that would appreciate having it, with DVD that would be a legal way to share the joy, with downloads, that's not legal.
This is kindof an annoyance of mine: why cant you return DVDs or downloads? If I buy a chair that looks bad in the room, I return it, if I buy a book that I end up not liking, I return it, hell, ladies regularly return purfume that they got as gifts after sampling the oder..., but with CD\\DVD\\download delivered content I can not, that seems like a glaring consumer rights issue...someone call Ralph Nader
And I'd still buy the DVD boxed sets I perfer that to downloads because I lend to them to friends and I like extra features.
I know - but one of Apple's strengths is getting companys to see the bigger picture vis the Starbucks deal this week. Given the lengths the MPAA go to (e.g. DVD region coding) our Steve would need the patience of Job (sic) to float the deal!
Converted to $ using current exchange rate... for convenient comparison
Lost Season 3:
DVD at Amazon.co.uk $90.85
DVD at Amazon.com $38.99
A factor of 2.3 more expensive in the UK on DVD at Amazon
Wow, I really feel bad for you all across the pond. This kind of disparity seems to be true of just about everything that one consumes day-to-day (except for quasi-public goods, such as health care, education, and so forth..... but that is another topic).
What is it with the pricing in the EU? How (and why) do you all put up with this type of gouging?
.... plus then there's no conversion for ipods then.
Is that true?
What is it with the pricing in the EU? How (and why) do you all put up with this type of gouging?
And is it somewhat due to the high taxes they tend to have over there?
.
And is it somewhat due to the high taxes they tend to have over there?
.
Yes, but my guess is, not by much more than 8% - 12%. In the US, most big cities add a sales tax in the 7% - 8% range and the VAT in the EU is the region of 15% to 22% "standard" (and often much lower for a whole range of products).
I do use the iPod and iTunes for digital content. I also buy CDs, DVDs, I use Netflix, I have cable and video on demand, I will also use Joost when it becomes available.
There are many ways to access content. So no I don't believe iTunes will ever be the only option.
I believe one of your first replies said that Apple was just giving the television a push in the direction it was going. I can only assume that meant some form of download service for media.
Which means no CDs, DVDs, Netflix...only download services like iTunes, Amazon Unbox, Joost (not familiar with how that one works), cable's VOD service. With Apple not having to care whether it makes a profit on downloads, it can price all but cable out of business. So you're down to two choices: Apple or cable. Maybe some form of cable allows it, but most VOD expires after 24 hours. Meaning I'll never be able to own the media, I might be stuck in a perpetual renting cycle with VOD and that leaves the only game to actually (sort of) own my media would be Apple and whatever hardware it deems to give me.
I believe one of your first replies said that Apple was just giving the television a push in the direction it was going. I can only assume that meant some form of download service for media.
What I mean is that Apple is pushing music and television to make digital downloads into a viable business where people could just as easily download the same content for free. I think its an over estimation that Apple needs lower price content to sell iPods. When there is nothing at all that prevents anyone from getting the content for free and loading that onto an iPod.
Yes the market is moving in that direction of downloading content. But no I don't believe that iTunes will be the only way to receive content. Apple will not out price cable, netflix, and all others because they use entirely different business models which have their own advantages.
Joost is an ad supported download service that is still in beta. But we'll all be hearing about it soon.
Wow, I really feel bad for you all across the pond. This kind of disparity seems to be true of just about everything that one consumes day-to-day (except for quasi-public goods, such as health care, education, and so forth..... but that is another topic).
What is it with the pricing in the EU? How (and why) do you all put up with this type of gouging?
We don't - government stats for this year so that 385000 people left the country for a better life!
How can they sell a show for 99 cents that i paid $1.99 for? Thats not fair!! i am going to cry and cry like a little girl, stamp my feet and write emails of complaint to Steve Jobs. He has betrayed my trust and loyalty to brand Apple, i have devoted my life to Apple, spent every penny i ever earned on little white boxes, daily masturbated to the WWWC podcast and go to sleep everynight in my Steve Jobs pyjamas and this is how he treats me?? maah, maah, maah i want a credit to cover the cost of my loss and i wont stop bitching till i get one, maah, maah, maah.
What??? They can't do this!!
How can they sell a show for 99 cents that i paid $1.99 for? Thats not fair!! i am going to cry and cry like a little girl, stamp my feet and write emails of complaint to Steve Jobs. He has betrayed my trust and loyalty to brand Apple, i have devoted my life to Apple, spent every penny i ever earned on little white boxes, daily masturbated to the WWWC podcast and go to sleep everynight in my Steve Jobs pyjamas and this is how he treats me?? maah, maah, maah i want a credit to cover the cost of my loss and i wont stop bitching till i get one, maah, maah, maah.
I think your post would have some credibility if you didn't leave out one key piece of the iPhone complaints. Save for that, your post is just an empty strawman attack.
I think your post would have some credibility if you didn't leave out one key piece of the iPhone complaints. Save for that, your post is just an empty strawman attack.
I thought murphyweb was joking.
My biggest complaints about the iTunes Music Store in regards to the video downloads is the lack of content and the lack of High Definition content.
We use video content very frequently. On the iPod/laptop it's great on business trips, and we use a second iPod with Video in the car so our toddler can watch his Disney shows on the DVD entertainment system (the iPod plugs right in). If we're walking around the mall and he gets cranky, we hand him the ipod to watch as he's falling asleep. It's enormously convenient. We just wish there was more video content -- we can't even get our hands on some popular Disney shows it seems. I honestly never want to use another DVD again.
We also have an Apple TV. This is a truly remarkable device that we just love, but I've been waiting and waiting (and waiting!) for high-definition content. The downloads from the Apple store don't look bad, but they're certainly not as clean as regular DVDs and aren't even close to HD-DVDs. H.264 is an incredible codec, but you can see a fair amount of artifacting at the 1500kbps encoding rate Apple uses. That's the most the iPods can support (Apple TV supports 2500, I think, for h.264 but they should look at upgrading that Pentium M 1000 proc they're using). Come on, Apple!
Macboy
Apple is so full of hypocrisy. I am starting to get really sick of it.
Not too sick to post a 639th time.
Converted to $ using current exchange rate... for convenient comparison
Lost Season 3:
DVD at Amazon.co.uk $90.85
DVD at Amazon.com $38.99
A factor of 2.3 more expensive in the UK on DVD at Amazon
iTunes Music Store UK $66.63
iTunes Music Store US $34.99
A factor of 1.9 more expensive in the UK at the iTunes Music Store
Looks like Apple are, 'relatively', giving us in the UK a good deal. Anyway, I guess it's best to think of it that way when we are being charged around double US prices!
There must be a huge black market for DVDs in the UK.