and what the FCC should have done is a cell area code for each state, that way they could have had more control...
but the EU system with distinct cell area codes for each country would have worked in the US too... there's enuough area codes in the US for this to work....
I don't get what the problem is - in the US you pay for all cell calls, in the EU (as I understand it) land line callers pay to call cell users. Someone pays either way - while it may make no sense for EU users that in the US the recipient pays, it makes no sense to people in the US that sometimes when you make a local phone call (if it is to a cell) you have to pay.
Can we not all just agree that people in both areas seem pretty OK with the way their system works? I don't see how either system is demonstrably "correct" while the other is not - SOMEONE pays for all calls, what's the big deal? In the US you get more minutes for the same money to make up for the fact that you use more minutes. So why all the debate about what should be changed etc? Clearly both systems work just fine for the people who use them every day!
and what the FCC should have done is a cell area code for each state, that way they could have had more control...
but the EU system with distinct cell area codes for each country would have worked in the US too... there's enuough area codes in the US for this to work....
I don't get what the problem is - in the US you pay for all cell calls, in the EU (as I understand it) land line callers pay to call cell users. Someone pays either way - while it may make no sense for EU users that in the US the recipient pays, it makes no sense to people in the US that sometimes when you make a local phone call (if it is to a cell) you have to pay.
Can we not all just agree that people in both areas seem pretty OK with the way their system works? I don't see how either system is demonstrably "correct" while the other is not - SOMEONE pays for all calls, what's the big deal? In the US you get more minutes for the same money to make up for the fact that you use more minutes. So why all the debate about what should be changed etc? Clearly both systems work just fine for the people who use them every day!
I don't think anyone said that one or the other system was "correct." Just that they are different for different reasons, and people seem to "prefer" one or the other system depending on their particular situation.
I don't get what the problem is - in the US you pay for all cell calls, in the EU (as I understand it) land line callers pay to call cell users. Someone pays either way - while it may make no sense for EU users that in the US the recipient pays, it makes no sense to people in the US that sometimes when you make a local phone call (if it is to a cell) you have to pay.
Can we not all just agree that people in both areas seem pretty OK with the way their system works? I don't see how either system is demonstrably "correct" while the other is not - SOMEONE pays for all calls, what's the big deal? In the US you get more minutes for the same money to make up for the fact that you use more minutes. So why all the debate about what should be changed etc? Clearly both systems work just fine for the people who use them every day!
i like the US system better...
on top the US numbering plan... i hate the EU system where you never know howl on a number is. in the US it's clear and in pairs of 3's and one pair of 4 numbers... easy to remember...
the worst is france where the love to split up the super long number into pairs of 2's, like 12 34 45 67 89 01, ridiculous... the german system @ least has a clear area code marked with (), like (0123) xxxxxxx, italy and spain have that system too...
It seems standby time is worse to better, and talk time is worse or (at best) equal. Some concerns, but keep in mind UMTS is only turned on when you need it and battery life looks quite a bit better.
About 30% of a hit at worst if you only run on UMTS. Furthermore some of those phones are about 12mm thick, so size isn't much of a problem.
I'm not quite sure of what you're saying, but if I do understand it, it isn't quite correct.
In the beginning of cell use here in the States, all cell numbers started with 1-917. That was the prefix only assigned to cell users. As cell usage became more common, and as the States has a much larger population that any of the European countries with their own country codes, we began to run out of that cell only prefix. Now, you can choose to have your local code used instead, as I , and the rest of my family have. My landlnes start with 1-718, and so do our cells.
So, that is not a reason for how it's been done.
Knowing Mel's passion for accuracy - 917 was NOT the only original area code prefix for cell phones - it may have been reserved for cell phones in the tri-state area (east coast including NY). My first experience with a cell phone was in 1979 - it was much more like a two way radio - but the phone number ascribed to the car set was a 503 area code prefix (Oregon).
Knowing Mel's passion for accuracy - 917 was NOT the only original area code prefix for cell phones - it may have been reserved for cell phones in the tri-state area (east coast including NY). My first experience with a cell phone was in 1979 - it was much more like a two way radio - but the phone number ascribed to the car set was a 503 area code prefix (Oregon).
and in germany for example there not just one area code for cell phones!
Regardless of the ad, fake or not, a 16GB iPhone this year is 'most' definite. The 3G is either on the cards, or a lot of people here wont even consider buying the device. With 3G, I'd say it would 'literally' double the amount of sales Apple would make here.
Regardless of the ad, fake or not, a 16GB iPhone this year is 'most' definite. The 3G is either on the cards, or a lot of people here wont even consider buying the device. With 3G, I'd say it would 'literally' double the amount of sales Apple would make here.
i agree completly;-)
but i still think the ad is fake...
but that the iphone might come to the EU as described could be true.... though...
That picture is a definite fake. On macrumors they have a link to a high res version of the ad, and there you can clearly see how poorly the slanted text in those purple boxes is aligned.
A second, even more obvious error: there are footnote markers after the ? signs in the bottom boxes - but where is the footnote?
I always thought this chip would end all frequency problems.
Correct me if i'm wrong.
Data plans still aren't popular in Europe and expensive. This is why SMS/MMS is hot. Most people with data phones only use up free data and then stop using it.
But we also get the freebies as well. Free calls to family and friends, or sometimes, free calls to anyone within the same network, free calls after 7:00pm, or 9:00 pm to 6:30 am, free weekends, etc. All of this makes the anytime calls a much smaller pert of the total free call schedule.
Quite common now in Europe too although most free calls are to any network and you may get free text too especially if you're NOT on a contract. Sometimes the better deals are not in a contract but on Pay-as-you-go where they'll reward you for buying a £20 top-up. That's why unlocking is so popular too.
In most of Europe with most landline carriers you also have to remember that there are no free local calls either. The caller always pays the cost of the call.
germany is 80 million people, US is 300 million... a fraction looks a little different... the EU is bigger than the US in terms of inhabitants, not landmass...
Uh, yes, that was the point I was making. Re-read the post.
Big deal. My post was really about where we have ended up, not where we started.
Maybe is doesn't, or it does.
But I was responding to your own statement:
Quote:
Yes, it is weird, but true. The reason -- I think -- has to do with the history of how mobile phone numbers were originally created in the US v. the rest-of-the-world, and the implications of that for service provider revenues.
According to you, where we ended up was because of how we started.
Quote:
Why is it difficult to go to a different numbering system?
Because of the switching systems. It is set up for the system now in use. Upgrading that, by adding numbers, as well as the problem of possibly forcing many phone users, and esp. those in business to go to new systems. Web sites would all have to be upgraded. Even paper work with spaces for phone numbers would have to be re-designed and re-printed.
That would cost a huge amount of money across the entire world.
I'm sure it could be done, but those costs would make everyone rather not want to do it.
That still wouldn't work. Here in NYC, we now have a number of different area codes. The way cells are proliferating, we are being told that at some point, we will run out of them. What then?
Knowing Mel's passion for accuracy - 917 was NOT the only original area code prefix for cell phones - it may have been reserved for cell phones in the tri-state area (east coast including NY). My first experience with a cell phone was in 1979 - it was much more like a two way radio - but the phone number ascribed to the car set was a 503 area code prefix (Oregon).
That wasn't a cell phone, as you noticed. We had mobile radio that far back. Cell came later.
In Japan, the first commercial cell service began in 1979, I think. It was very limited, and horribly expensive, and unreliable.
In 1983, the first cell phone service started here. I remember that well, because I was able to play with one for a while when I was in Chicago for a business meeting.
In most of Europe with most landline carriers you also have to remember that there are no free local calls either. The caller always pays the cost of the call.
That coud be expensive, and would help explain the popularity of cell over there.
I pay a fixed rate per month (I forget what it is exactly, but somewhat under $30), and I get unlimited calls, for an unlimited amount of time.
Of course, that's for local calls, though local here can mean quite a swath of area, covering 20 or 30 million people.
Comments
You were saying that we started this way, which we didn't.
Big deal. My post was really about where we have ended up, not where we started.
It's not easy just to go to a different numbering system, which is why it isn't done.
Why is it difficult to go to a different numbering system?
and what the FCC should have done is a cell area code for each state, that way they could have had more control...
but the EU system with distinct cell area codes for each country would have worked in the US too... there's enuough area codes in the US for this to work....
I don't get what the problem is - in the US you pay for all cell calls, in the EU (as I understand it) land line callers pay to call cell users. Someone pays either way - while it may make no sense for EU users that in the US the recipient pays, it makes no sense to people in the US that sometimes when you make a local phone call (if it is to a cell) you have to pay.
Can we not all just agree that people in both areas seem pretty OK with the way their system works? I don't see how either system is demonstrably "correct" while the other is not - SOMEONE pays for all calls, what's the big deal? In the US you get more minutes for the same money to make up for the fact that you use more minutes. So why all the debate about what should be changed etc? Clearly both systems work just fine for the people who use them every day!
and what the FCC should have done is a cell area code for each state, that way they could have had more control...
but the EU system with distinct cell area codes for each country would have worked in the US too... there's enuough area codes in the US for this to work....
Exactly.
I don't get what the problem is - in the US you pay for all cell calls, in the EU (as I understand it) land line callers pay to call cell users. Someone pays either way - while it may make no sense for EU users that in the US the recipient pays, it makes no sense to people in the US that sometimes when you make a local phone call (if it is to a cell) you have to pay.
Can we not all just agree that people in both areas seem pretty OK with the way their system works? I don't see how either system is demonstrably "correct" while the other is not - SOMEONE pays for all calls, what's the big deal? In the US you get more minutes for the same money to make up for the fact that you use more minutes. So why all the debate about what should be changed etc? Clearly both systems work just fine for the people who use them every day!
I don't think anyone said that one or the other system was "correct." Just that they are different for different reasons, and people seem to "prefer" one or the other system depending on their particular situation.
I don't get what the problem is - in the US you pay for all cell calls, in the EU (as I understand it) land line callers pay to call cell users. Someone pays either way - while it may make no sense for EU users that in the US the recipient pays, it makes no sense to people in the US that sometimes when you make a local phone call (if it is to a cell) you have to pay.
Can we not all just agree that people in both areas seem pretty OK with the way their system works? I don't see how either system is demonstrably "correct" while the other is not - SOMEONE pays for all calls, what's the big deal? In the US you get more minutes for the same money to make up for the fact that you use more minutes. So why all the debate about what should be changed etc? Clearly both systems work just fine for the people who use them every day!
i like the US system better...
on top the US numbering plan... i hate the EU system where you never know howl on a number is. in the US it's clear and in pairs of 3's and one pair of 4 numbers... easy to remember...
the worst is france where the love to split up the super long number into pairs of 2's, like 12 34 45 67 89 01, ridiculous... the german system @ least has a clear area code marked with (), like (0123) xxxxxxx, italy and spain have that system too...
And a talk-time battery life of.......? (I am currently getting about 6 hours with mixed use on my 8GB).
As for battery life, and using Softbank for reference as they have GSM/UMTS mobiles, here's some numbers:
707SCII
Talk Time: 165min. (Japan/W-CDMA) / 310min. (GSM) (when stationary)
Standby Time
705NK
Talk Time
Standby Time
910T
Talk Time
Standby Time
813SH
Talk Time
Standby Time
810P
Talk Time
Standby Time
It seems standby time is worse to better, and talk time is worse or (at best) equal. Some concerns, but keep in mind UMTS is only turned on when you need it and battery life looks quite a bit better.
About 30% of a hit at worst if you only run on UMTS. Furthermore some of those phones are about 12mm thick, so size isn't much of a problem.
I'm not quite sure of what you're saying, but if I do understand it, it isn't quite correct.
In the beginning of cell use here in the States, all cell numbers started with 1-917. That was the prefix only assigned to cell users. As cell usage became more common, and as the States has a much larger population that any of the European countries with their own country codes, we began to run out of that cell only prefix. Now, you can choose to have your local code used instead, as I , and the rest of my family have. My landlnes start with 1-718, and so do our cells.
So, that is not a reason for how it's been done.
Knowing Mel's passion for accuracy - 917 was NOT the only original area code prefix for cell phones - it may have been reserved for cell phones in the tri-state area (east coast including NY). My first experience with a cell phone was in 1979 - it was much more like a two way radio - but the phone number ascribed to the car set was a 503 area code prefix (Oregon).
Knowing Mel's passion for accuracy - 917 was NOT the only original area code prefix for cell phones - it may have been reserved for cell phones in the tri-state area (east coast including NY). My first experience with a cell phone was in 1979 - it was much more like a two way radio - but the phone number ascribed to the car set was a 503 area code prefix (Oregon).
and in germany for example there not just one area code for cell phones!
right now there's:
0160 t-mobile
0162 vodafone
0163 e+
0170 t-mobile
0171 t-mobile
0172 vodafone
0173 vodafone
0174 vodafone
0175 t-mobile
0176 o2
0177 e+
0178 e+
0179 o2
in use
Regardless of the ad, fake or not, a 16GB iPhone this year is 'most' definite. The 3G is either on the cards, or a lot of people here wont even consider buying the device. With 3G, I'd say it would 'literally' double the amount of sales Apple would make here.
i agree completly;-)
but i still think the ad is fake...
but that the iphone might come to the EU as described could be true.... though...
A second, even more obvious error: there are footnote markers after the ? signs in the bottom boxes - but where is the footnote?
Correct me if i'm wrong.
Data plans still aren't popular in Europe and expensive. This is why SMS/MMS is hot. Most people with data phones only use up free data and then stop using it.
But we also get the freebies as well. Free calls to family and friends, or sometimes, free calls to anyone within the same network, free calls after 7:00pm, or 9:00 pm to 6:30 am, free weekends, etc. All of this makes the anytime calls a much smaller pert of the total free call schedule.
Quite common now in Europe too although most free calls are to any network and you may get free text too especially if you're NOT on a contract. Sometimes the better deals are not in a contract but on Pay-as-you-go where they'll reward you for buying a £20 top-up. That's why unlocking is so popular too.
In most of Europe with most landline carriers you also have to remember that there are no free local calls either. The caller always pays the cost of the call.
but why are there references to the 16GB and NOT to the iTS for wifi??? or any other new features??? besides UMTS/3G???.
Apple could quiet easily be open about the new iPhone with t-mobile, where they hadn't discussed the iTunes wifi store options.
Not that that makes it real... I just don't think it's evidence against.
germany is 80 million people, US is 300 million... a fraction looks a little different... the EU is bigger than the US in terms of inhabitants, not landmass...
Uh, yes, that was the point I was making. Re-read the post.
Big deal. My post was really about where we have ended up, not where we started.
Maybe is doesn't, or it does.
But I was responding to your own statement:
Yes, it is weird, but true. The reason -- I think -- has to do with the history of how mobile phone numbers were originally created in the US v. the rest-of-the-world, and the implications of that for service provider revenues.
According to you, where we ended up was because of how we started.
Why is it difficult to go to a different numbering system?
Because of the switching systems. It is set up for the system now in use. Upgrading that, by adding numbers, as well as the problem of possibly forcing many phone users, and esp. those in business to go to new systems. Web sites would all have to be upgraded. Even paper work with spaces for phone numbers would have to be re-designed and re-printed.
That would cost a huge amount of money across the entire world.
I'm sure it could be done, but those costs would make everyone rather not want to do it.
Exactly.
That still wouldn't work. Here in NYC, we now have a number of different area codes. The way cells are proliferating, we are being told that at some point, we will run out of them. What then?
Knowing Mel's passion for accuracy - 917 was NOT the only original area code prefix for cell phones - it may have been reserved for cell phones in the tri-state area (east coast including NY). My first experience with a cell phone was in 1979 - it was much more like a two way radio - but the phone number ascribed to the car set was a 503 area code prefix (Oregon).
That wasn't a cell phone, as you noticed. We had mobile radio that far back. Cell came later.
In Japan, the first commercial cell service began in 1979, I think. It was very limited, and horribly expensive, and unreliable.
In 1983, the first cell phone service started here. I remember that well, because I was able to play with one for a while when I was in Chicago for a business meeting.
and in germany for example there not just one area code for cell phones!
right now there's:
0160 t-mobile
0162 vodafone
0163 e+
0170 t-mobile
0171 t-mobile
0172 vodafone
0173 vodafone
0174 vodafone
0175 t-mobile
0176 o2
0177 e+
0178 e+
0179 o2
in use
There, it's happening in Europe as well. It must. It's math.
In most of Europe with most landline carriers you also have to remember that there are no free local calls either. The caller always pays the cost of the call.
That coud be expensive, and would help explain the popularity of cell over there.
I pay a fixed rate per month (I forget what it is exactly, but somewhat under $30), and I get unlimited calls, for an unlimited amount of time.
Of course, that's for local calls, though local here can mean quite a swath of area, covering 20 or 30 million people.