You are missing the point, its not about the prices it is about the ability to buy.
You can charge different prices in different countries if you want but there is a single European market and than means anyone i the UK can buy a car from a German car dealer if they want, anyone in Spain can buy a CD from a french hypermarket if they want.
But Apple do not let someone in the UK buy a song from the french iTunes, this goes against everything that the single market stands for.
So, someone sitting in the UK can order a BMW from a German dealer, and it will be shipped to your UK address?
Also, can someone in the UK buy/dowload a song from amazon.fr? I.e., are there other (legit) competing services that offer this cross-border service? And, I am curious: do such cross-border services extend to other digital downloads (e.g., software) from large corporations purchased over the internet?
So, someone sitting in the UK can order a BMW from a German dealer, and it will be shipped to your UK address?
Also, can someone in the UK buy/dowload a song from amazon.fr? I.e., are there other (legit) competing services that offer this cross-border service? And, I am curious: do such cross-border services extend to other digital downloads (e.g., software) from large corporations purchased over the internet?
The music firms in their infinite wisdom have ownership deals that are limited in scope..meaning that Apple is forced to negotiate for a song in many cases on a country by country basis..this means that who ever owns the rights to that song only does so say only for France. This also means that the contract Apple signs is for France only and that they cannot sell the song from the French iTunes store anywhere else..they may have the song for sale in other countries but the contracts were signed with someone else who may have also demanded a different price...if the music labels would get their distribution deals the same across the EU then Apple could have a single EU store.
Err... what about CDs or any other music store that sells songs without DRM (except WMA)? I have an iPod and have yet to buy a single track from iTS, simply because the price is too high compared to physical CDs..
Too expensive? really?? in the last 2 days I have bought 3/4 Classical albums for between £2.99 - £4.99
So, someone sitting in the UK can order a BMW from a German dealer, and it will be shipped to your UK address?
Also, can someone in the UK buy/dowload a song from amazon.fr? I.e., are there other (legit) competing services that offer this cross-border service? And, I am curious: do such cross-border services extend to other digital downloads (e.g., software) from large corporations purchased over the internet?
It's somewhat ironic that you should have chosen buying a car in your question. Cars in the UK used to be significantly more expensive in the UK than elsewhere. However, some consumers decided to order right-hand drive vehicles from dealers elsewhere in Europe for personal import. Some car manufacturers reacted by obstructing the supply of right-hand drives to non-UK dealers, which was deemed illegal. The competition authorities also launched inquiries into why UK prices were so much more expensive and car prices here are now comparable. Yes, you can order a BMW from a German dealer, but they may leave it to you to deal with the importation.
To some extent the "single European market" is little more than an ideal. The Single European Act was intended to remove barriers to cross-border trade within the EU. As consumers we should be able to purchase goods and services from anywhere within the EU, though in many cases that does mean we have to arrange importation ourselves. Another caveat, particularly in relation to alcohol and tobacco, is that it must be for personal use.
In theory I ought to be able to download music and software from online stores around Europe. In practice, however, some might refuse to supply on the basis that they have different distribution arrangements in different territories, and that supplying the goods might be in breach of those arrangements. That appears to be Apple's defence and the outcome of the case could have a significant bearing on how the downloads market works in Europe.
That appears to be Apple's defence and the outcome of the case could have a significant bearing on how the downloads market works in Europe.
That sounds to me like they are going after Apple because it'll make a bigger splash. Not that there's anything wrong with that -- it's like the SEC going after Martha Stewart or the press after Paris Hilton -- since it gets more attention.
It just seems a tad hypocritical when it's couched in all the hot air of "we're doing it for the principle of it".
That sounds to me like they are going after Apple because it'll make a bigger splash.
Yes, except the action started with consumer complaints to Which?, the UK consumer body. Perhaps consumers care more about iTunes than they do about Amazon etc.
Yes, except the action started with consumer complaints to Which?, the UK consumer body. Perhaps consumers care more about iTunes than they do about Amazon etc.
I vaguely recall that that the EU issue with Apple's iTunes started in France, then a non-EU country (Norway) -- and in both cases, not because consumers were demanding it, but some "umbudsperson" group demanded it -- and then it migrated over to the EU competition authorities.
Do you have any cite/reference to consumer complaints in the UK being the proximate reason of this?
As consumers we should be able to purchase goods and services from anywhere within the EU, though in many cases that does mean we have to arrange importation ourselves.
Kris - but nobody is stopping you. I Imported a car myself from Germany into Belgium as it was 7.5K Euro cheaper 140 km westwards. So - I could really put up with the bit of red tape from customs. Took 1 hour in "Red Tape Belgium"
As to car prices in the UK - you DO drive on the other side which is unique in Europe. All right hand side Mercedes C Classes (and others probably too) actually come from South Africa as it is half way between UK, Japan, Australia and NZ - part from being a right hand drive country as well.
Europe has come a long way - but still has a long way to go. Ever tried to subscribe insurance in country A for country B ? I tried with risk life insurance in Germany where they wouldnt have it/me as I dont live there. Half price when compared locally.
But we're straying from AAPL so back to the thread - I find it unacceptable by the record companies to impose territorial borders, just like the Dukes did in the Medieval Age. Its appalling, disgusting and deserves looking into by the Commission.
But we're straying from AAPL so back to the thread - I find it unacceptable by the record companies to impose territorial borders, just like the Dukes did in the Medieval Age. Its appalling, disgusting and deserves looking into by the Commission.
I guess territorial restrictions are more obvious when it comes to intellectual property. However, there are a wide range of goods and services that are sold on a territory by territory basis. A good example is the fashion industry. Some manufacturers of clothes appoint different wholesale distributors for different countries. One reason for doing so is that wholesalers know the local market and will only sell to retail outlets that fit with the brand. Manufacturers undertake to give exclusive wholesale rights to that distributor. Some years back the UK supermarket group Tesco bought a consignment of Levis jeans off the "grey market', which they sold at a considerable discount to the normal UK price. Levis took legal action and secured an injunction against Tesco buying from anyone other than their authorised distributor. Similar action has been taken by cosmetics firms too.
Coming back to iTunes, I guess the problem is that while distribution deals may entitle a local distributor to a share of royalties on sales, that distributor doesn't actually have to do anything for iTunes to sell a song in a particular territory. If a UK record company has a distribution deal with a company in France, for example, that French company doesn't need to supply the servers and infrastructure to ensure French consumers can download a song from iTunes. This Apple case, while bearing no relation to that against Microsoft, could well have much wider implications for how downloaded goods and services are marketed and sold in Europe.
Comments
It's very important that consumer's rights are guarded and that governments think about computers, the internet and how such things change business.
They should get into that subject much more actively.
There are many examples where prices are kept artificially high and unnatural markets are kept alive by huge corporations.
There are also many examples where such practices stifle innovation.
thumsoup!
You are missing the point, its not about the prices it is about the ability to buy.
You can charge different prices in different countries if you want but there is a single European market and than means anyone i the UK can buy a car from a German car dealer if they want, anyone in Spain can buy a CD from a french hypermarket if they want.
But Apple do not let someone in the UK buy a song from the french iTunes, this goes against everything that the single market stands for.
So, someone sitting in the UK can order a BMW from a German dealer, and it will be shipped to your UK address?
Also, can someone in the UK buy/dowload a song from amazon.fr? I.e., are there other (legit) competing services that offer this cross-border service? And, I am curious: do such cross-border services extend to other digital downloads (e.g., software) from large corporations purchased over the internet?
So, someone sitting in the UK can order a BMW from a German dealer, and it will be shipped to your UK address?
Also, can someone in the UK buy/dowload a song from amazon.fr? I.e., are there other (legit) competing services that offer this cross-border service? And, I am curious: do such cross-border services extend to other digital downloads (e.g., software) from large corporations purchased over the internet?
The music firms in their infinite wisdom have ownership deals that are limited in scope..meaning that Apple is forced to negotiate for a song in many cases on a country by country basis..this means that who ever owns the rights to that song only does so say only for France. This also means that the contract Apple signs is for France only and that they cannot sell the song from the French iTunes store anywhere else..they may have the song for sale in other countries but the contracts were signed with someone else who may have also demanded a different price...if the music labels would get their distribution deals the same across the EU then Apple could have a single EU store.
Err... what about CDs or any other music store that sells songs without DRM (except WMA)? I have an iPod and have yet to buy a single track from iTS, simply because the price is too high compared to physical CDs..
Too expensive? really?? in the last 2 days I have bought 3/4 Classical albums for between £2.99 - £4.99
So, someone sitting in the UK can order a BMW from a German dealer, and it will be shipped to your UK address?
Also, can someone in the UK buy/dowload a song from amazon.fr? I.e., are there other (legit) competing services that offer this cross-border service? And, I am curious: do such cross-border services extend to other digital downloads (e.g., software) from large corporations purchased over the internet?
It's somewhat ironic that you should have chosen buying a car in your question. Cars in the UK used to be significantly more expensive in the UK than elsewhere. However, some consumers decided to order right-hand drive vehicles from dealers elsewhere in Europe for personal import. Some car manufacturers reacted by obstructing the supply of right-hand drives to non-UK dealers, which was deemed illegal. The competition authorities also launched inquiries into why UK prices were so much more expensive and car prices here are now comparable. Yes, you can order a BMW from a German dealer, but they may leave it to you to deal with the importation.
To some extent the "single European market" is little more than an ideal. The Single European Act was intended to remove barriers to cross-border trade within the EU. As consumers we should be able to purchase goods and services from anywhere within the EU, though in many cases that does mean we have to arrange importation ourselves. Another caveat, particularly in relation to alcohol and tobacco, is that it must be for personal use.
In theory I ought to be able to download music and software from online stores around Europe. In practice, however, some might refuse to supply on the basis that they have different distribution arrangements in different territories, and that supplying the goods might be in breach of those arrangements. That appears to be Apple's defence and the outcome of the case could have a significant bearing on how the downloads market works in Europe.
That appears to be Apple's defence and the outcome of the case could have a significant bearing on how the downloads market works in Europe.
That sounds to me like they are going after Apple because it'll make a bigger splash. Not that there's anything wrong with that -- it's like the SEC going after Martha Stewart or the press after Paris Hilton -- since it gets more attention.
It just seems a tad hypocritical when it's couched in all the hot air of "we're doing it for the principle of it".
That sounds to me like they are going after Apple because it'll make a bigger splash.
Yes, except the action started with consumer complaints to Which?, the UK consumer body. Perhaps consumers care more about iTunes than they do about Amazon etc.
Yes, except the action started with consumer complaints to Which?, the UK consumer body. Perhaps consumers care more about iTunes than they do about Amazon etc.
I vaguely recall that that the EU issue with Apple's iTunes started in France, then a non-EU country (Norway) -- and in both cases, not because consumers were demanding it, but some "umbudsperson" group demanded it -- and then it migrated over to the EU competition authorities.
Do you have any cite/reference to consumer complaints in the UK being the proximate reason of this?
As consumers we should be able to purchase goods and services from anywhere within the EU, though in many cases that does mean we have to arrange importation ourselves.
Kris - but nobody is stopping you. I Imported a car myself from Germany into Belgium as it was 7.5K Euro cheaper 140 km westwards. So - I could really put up with the bit of red tape from customs. Took 1 hour in "Red Tape Belgium"
As to car prices in the UK - you DO drive on the other side which is unique in Europe. All right hand side Mercedes C Classes (and others probably too) actually come from South Africa as it is half way between UK, Japan, Australia and NZ - part from being a right hand drive country as well.
Europe has come a long way - but still has a long way to go. Ever tried to subscribe insurance in country A for country B ? I tried with risk life insurance in Germany where they wouldnt have it/me as I dont live there. Half price when compared locally.
But we're straying from AAPL so back to the thread - I find it unacceptable by the record companies to impose territorial borders, just like the Dukes did in the Medieval Age. Its appalling, disgusting and deserves looking into by the Commission.
But we're straying from AAPL so back to the thread - I find it unacceptable by the record companies to impose territorial borders, just like the Dukes did in the Medieval Age. Its appalling, disgusting and deserves looking into by the Commission.
I guess territorial restrictions are more obvious when it comes to intellectual property. However, there are a wide range of goods and services that are sold on a territory by territory basis. A good example is the fashion industry. Some manufacturers of clothes appoint different wholesale distributors for different countries. One reason for doing so is that wholesalers know the local market and will only sell to retail outlets that fit with the brand. Manufacturers undertake to give exclusive wholesale rights to that distributor. Some years back the UK supermarket group Tesco bought a consignment of Levis jeans off the "grey market', which they sold at a considerable discount to the normal UK price. Levis took legal action and secured an injunction against Tesco buying from anyone other than their authorised distributor. Similar action has been taken by cosmetics firms too.
Coming back to iTunes, I guess the problem is that while distribution deals may entitle a local distributor to a share of royalties on sales, that distributor doesn't actually have to do anything for iTunes to sell a song in a particular territory. If a UK record company has a distribution deal with a company in France, for example, that French company doesn't need to supply the servers and infrastructure to ensure French consumers can download a song from iTunes. This Apple case, while bearing no relation to that against Microsoft, could well have much wider implications for how downloaded goods and services are marketed and sold in Europe.