I think Apple's quality control is seriously slipping.
I think it has got to a stage where Apple seems to be rushing half-baked (relative to the past) hardware and software out the door. Part of the QC problems no doubt stem from the ubiquitous, relentless outsourcing to lower- and lower-cost manufacturers in countries further and further away (all electronics being guilty of that).
But I sometimes feel that it may have something to do with Apple trying to do too many things, too soon.
I wish they would slow down or pause a bit, catch their breath, and work on eliminating the quality and service issues in their current product offerings, before putting anything else new and significant out there.
I think you may be correct about Apple trying to do too much, too fast.
After the recent problems in the new iPod software which got an emergency patch--yet didn't fix all of the issues--I asked a few of my buddies at Apple what was going on.
To the person, they said exactly what you did: that Apple is trying to do way too much nowadays and quality is the price the company is paying.
I hope Apple gets their act together. Fancy products being demo'd and reviewed don't matter at all to customers. What matters to customers is that their money actually buys the products they are promised.
The distinction is subtle, but it is everything.
(And as for the China manufacturing, obviously you are correct. This is a business culture where it is OK to use lead based paint for children's toys because it is cheaper and the colors are brighter. Obviously the fact that Apple manufactures there is part of the issue. But to be fair, so does everyone else...)
Thank you very much for reporting that unacceptable fact, that apple is seeling computer that freeze right out of the box.
Like many new iMac owner I've experiencing many freezes did what the Apple care told me to do (after then treated me like a retarded) which was flushing the PRAM and then is it still freezing re-install. I did both and it ended up with even more freezing.
So I decided to give a try to Leopard, my idea was that this New iMac should has been more designed to run Leopard than Tiger, so it might run it better.
And it DOES. I'm running Leopard for now 3 days, and I got no freezes.
What a deliverance to know that it might just be a software issue and not an hardware issue.
I posted about it on apple discussion but they deleted all my post, apple don't want us to talk about Leopard.
As people have said before me, this happens on machines other than the new iMac. My MacBook (one of the original ones) has been doing this since I bought it in June 2006. I've brought it in multiple times to see if the Apple Store people could find anything, and have tried running memtest and various disk scans, to no avail.
It seems to frequently happen for me when I'm in the middle of tabbing through applications, but it has happened also outside of it. Frequency is also highly variable. Sometimes multiple times in a day, sometimes not for many days. It seems to be somewhat correlated with how heavily I'm using CPU/memory, but again, it is not consistent.
My 2.8 Extreme 24" iMac with 4gb and 1TB has frozen many times, usually while I'm working on something important! My next step is to try a format and reinstall but, eugh, I just got it set up right and moved 500gb of files. Putting it off until the weekend and hoping for a better fix. Glad to see it finally making news though. Each time I've called apple care they claim to know nothing about it...
try running Macjanitor and then (or only) zapping the PRAM. seems to have worked for me, at least until further notice.
I think Apple's quality control is seriously slipping. I won't go into the many issues that I have had with my MBP17" (as well as problems that a colleague of mine has has with is 17" as well), and a couple of iPods.
I think it has got to a stage where Apple seems to be rushing half-baked (relative to the past) hardware and software out the door. Part of the QC problems no doubt stem from the ubiquitous, relentless outsourcing to lower- and lower-cost manufacturers in countries further and further away (all electronics being guilty of that).
But I sometimes feel that it may have something to do with Apple trying to do too many things, too soon.
I wish they would slow down or pause a bit, catch their breath, and work on eliminating the quality and service issues in their current product offerings, before putting anything else new and significant out there.
I'm in the freezing club too, iMac 2.4GHz. I blame iTunes, it feels terribly slow on my computer.
Ripping songs takes ages, takes longer than it did on my Pentium 4 1.6GHz, and when ripping, the app gets a hog. I've had my mac for about 3 months now and the entire system freezed twice, iTunes itself freezed 5 times. It's the only app that ever freezes and ever feels slow.
This happened to me yesterday on my MacBook Pro 15"/Core2Duo 2.33GHz/256MB VRAM. Was running Safari, iPhoto and QuickTime Player. I have the latest firmware installed (the one that came out last weekend). Has only happened the one time though and had to force shutdown to solve it.
Hopefully it doesn't happen again and that Apple fixes the issue stat!
To be fair, this problem has occurred with my PowerBook 12", 1.5Ghz, more than once in the past before for no apparent reason. Different applications have been running each time. It's obviously a more prevalent problem in the new iMac, which i'm hoping to purchase in the next few weeks, but now, that all depends on a fix.
I bought the alumium iMac when it came out in the UK (my first ever mac). I've been having this problem since i got it. I thought it was because I had only chosen 1GB ram, but even with just safari and itunes open, it still fatally crashes.
This and the crappy 8-bit colour LCD screen are making me regret switching to a mac, now.
I think Apple's quality control is seriously slipping. I won't go into the many issues that I have had with my MBP17" (as well as problems that a colleague of mine has has with is 17" as well), and a couple of iPods.
I think it has got to a stage where Apple seems to be rushing half-baked (relative to the past) hardware and software out the door. Part of the QC problems no doubt stem from the ubiquitous, relentless outsourcing to lower- and lower-cost manufacturers in countries further and further away (all electronics being guilty of that).
But I sometimes feel that it may have something to do with Apple trying to do too many things, too soon.
I wish they would slow down or pause a bit, catch their breath, and work on eliminating the quality and service issues in their current product offerings, before putting anything else new and significant out there.
Maybe Steve needs to take his Yahoo executive pep talk back to Apple!
It's always good to wait a while, whether it's a new Mac or a new Mac OS. See what problems arises and how it get fixed, or maybe just for a price drop :-)
Got my 24" iMac last month. No problems until yesterday -- got the spinning rainbow disk off and on while running webmail on Safari, InDesign CS3 and iTunes, with an external Maxtor HD attached (but not working off the Maxtor). Freezes seemed to happen while skipping to the next song in iTunes via the widget (rather than through the app itself). Also froze when trying to run Software Updater and while transferring files from the iMac to the Maxtor. No way out except to reach around back and press the button.
You know... it is a good thing that computer crashes are now news worthy.
It's great that we have such high standards now. Remember the days of Mac OS 9? Reboots were a daily occurrence. Or multiple times an hour, if you happened to be a programmer.
(crosses fingers that apple will fix it in a reasonable time frame)
I've seen this before. About 4 or 5 years ago when 10.3.3 was new... we ordered several Mac G5/DP 1.8Ghz towers. One system has to be off the shelf, because the new user was starting the next week. This has a stock nVidia GF5200 card... the other systems were upgraded to ATI R9600 cards, which are much better overall.
Everything seemed fine, however the systems would randomly lock up, though not all systems did this, most did and some were not useable - locking up 3+ times a day (though not every day). Symptoms were similar - mouse would work, nothing else. IIRC, even ssh would not work most of the time. Occassionally iTunes would continue to play ...
The kicker was the stock system had no issues at all... and the software was identical for the most part. So after many weeks of testing and working with Apple... they decided to ship us two new systems (2Ghz/ATI 9600 - which was stock at that time) and we shipped back the two 1.8Ghz that were having the most problem. I think they eventually fixed it with the 10.3.5 patch, the issues went away.
I would guess it was an ATI DRIVER/ OSX kernel issue.... maybe 10.4.12 and it gets patched?
We have new Mac towers - so far so good... and a few new Mac Book Pro's .. but its too early to tell. /knock on wood!
The problem is that lockups can be caused by many different things. I believe the issue with the new aluminum iMacs is more severe and widespread, and there must a be a specific cause for it.
Exact same problems on my new aluminum iMac 20" (2.4 GHz) with the same video card (ATI Radeon HD 2600). Occasionally it will freeze up like this, with the mouse still moving but nothing else will work, and eventually it all goes south and I have to restart manually. Typically this happens when the computer has been on for a while and I'm doing something that involves graphical effects, like Dashboard or iMovie.
I get the "ASIC Hang Log" every time it freezes. I've accumulated about a dozen of those now; I save them every time.
I've followed this issue closely, and at least on the aluminum iMacs, it appears to be the same thing. There is a definite issue revolving around the ATI cards or drivers that is currently producing the same issues for a lot of people. It's not always consistent or reproducible, but it's there. There's no way this is all a huge coincidence.
When is Apple going to admit this problem? I'm sick of AppleCare insisting they've never heard of it before. The retail stores are not much better, just running tests that have nothing to do with this issue, and giving people replacement iMacs with the same issue.
My symptoms have always been exactly like everyone is suddenly reporting about the new iMacs ... on nvidia Macs from early 2007.
I have been through the wringer with this problem on both a 24" iMac (nvidia), and a MacBook of the same vintage. Apple rebuilt the iMac once (new RAM, HD, motherboard), and replaced it entirely once, but the problem is not solved. Exhaustive troubleshooting has thoroughly eliminated every imaginable common system stability problem.
Nice to have company with the new reports. I felt so alone until now ...
Comments
I think Apple's quality control is seriously slipping.
I think it has got to a stage where Apple seems to be rushing half-baked (relative to the past) hardware and software out the door. Part of the QC problems no doubt stem from the ubiquitous, relentless outsourcing to lower- and lower-cost manufacturers in countries further and further away (all electronics being guilty of that).
But I sometimes feel that it may have something to do with Apple trying to do too many things, too soon.
I wish they would slow down or pause a bit, catch their breath, and work on eliminating the quality and service issues in their current product offerings, before putting anything else new and significant out there.
I think you may be correct about Apple trying to do too much, too fast.
After the recent problems in the new iPod software which got an emergency patch--yet didn't fix all of the issues--I asked a few of my buddies at Apple what was going on.
To the person, they said exactly what you did: that Apple is trying to do way too much nowadays and quality is the price the company is paying.
I hope Apple gets their act together. Fancy products being demo'd and reviewed don't matter at all to customers. What matters to customers is that their money actually buys the products they are promised.
The distinction is subtle, but it is everything.
(And as for the China manufacturing, obviously you are correct. This is a business culture where it is OK to use lead based paint for children's toys because it is cheaper and the colors are brighter. Obviously the fact that Apple manufactures there is part of the issue. But to be fair, so does everyone else...)
Like many new iMac owner I've experiencing many freezes did what the Apple care told me to do (after then treated me like a retarded) which was flushing the PRAM and then is it still freezing re-install. I did both and it ended up with even more freezing.
So I decided to give a try to Leopard, my idea was that this New iMac should has been more designed to run Leopard than Tiger, so it might run it better.
And it DOES. I'm running Leopard for now 3 days, and I got no freezes.
What a deliverance to know that it might just be a software issue and not an hardware issue.
I posted about it on apple discussion but they deleted all my post, apple don't want us to talk about Leopard.
It seems to frequently happen for me when I'm in the middle of tabbing through applications, but it has happened also outside of it. Frequency is also highly variable. Sometimes multiple times in a day, sometimes not for many days. It seems to be somewhat correlated with how heavily I'm using CPU/memory, but again, it is not consistent.
Ugh.
My 2.8 Extreme 24" iMac with 4gb and 1TB has frozen many times, usually while I'm working on something important! My next step is to try a format and reinstall but, eugh, I just got it set up right and moved 500gb of files. Putting it off until the weekend and hoping for a better fix. Glad to see it finally making news though. Each time I've called apple care they claim to know nothing about it...
try running Macjanitor and then (or only) zapping the PRAM. seems to have worked for me, at least until further notice.
I think Apple's quality control is seriously slipping. I won't go into the many issues that I have had with my MBP17" (as well as problems that a colleague of mine has has with is 17" as well), and a couple of iPods.
I think it has got to a stage where Apple seems to be rushing half-baked (relative to the past) hardware and software out the door. Part of the QC problems no doubt stem from the ubiquitous, relentless outsourcing to lower- and lower-cost manufacturers in countries further and further away (all electronics being guilty of that).
But I sometimes feel that it may have something to do with Apple trying to do too many things, too soon.
I wish they would slow down or pause a bit, catch their breath, and work on eliminating the quality and service issues in their current product offerings, before putting anything else new and significant out there.
I second that emotion.
Ripping songs takes ages, takes longer than it did on my Pentium 4 1.6GHz, and when ripping, the app gets a hog. I've had my mac for about 3 months now and the entire system freezed twice, iTunes itself freezed 5 times. It's the only app that ever freezes and ever feels slow.
try running Macjanitor and then (or only) zapping the PRAM. seems to have worked for me, at least until further notice.
Thanks for the suggestions, I've tried resetting the PRAM and it had no effect. Will give Macjanitor a try, I've tried similar but who knows...
Hopefully it doesn't happen again and that Apple fixes the issue stat!
This and the crappy 8-bit colour LCD screen are making me regret switching to a mac, now.
I think Apple's quality control is seriously slipping. I won't go into the many issues that I have had with my MBP17" (as well as problems that a colleague of mine has has with is 17" as well), and a couple of iPods.
I think it has got to a stage where Apple seems to be rushing half-baked (relative to the past) hardware and software out the door. Part of the QC problems no doubt stem from the ubiquitous, relentless outsourcing to lower- and lower-cost manufacturers in countries further and further away (all electronics being guilty of that).
But I sometimes feel that it may have something to do with Apple trying to do too many things, too soon.
I wish they would slow down or pause a bit, catch their breath, and work on eliminating the quality and service issues in their current product offerings, before putting anything else new and significant out there.
Maybe Steve needs to take his Yahoo executive pep talk back to Apple!
delete
It's great that we have such high standards now. Remember the days of Mac OS 9? Reboots were a daily occurrence. Or multiple times an hour, if you happened to be a programmer.
(crosses fingers that apple will fix it in a reasonable time frame)
Everything seemed fine, however the systems would randomly lock up, though not all systems did this, most did and some were not useable - locking up 3+ times a day (though not every day). Symptoms were similar - mouse would work, nothing else. IIRC, even ssh would not work most of the time. Occassionally iTunes would continue to play ...
The kicker was the stock system had no issues at all... and the software was identical for the most part. So after many weeks of testing and working with Apple... they decided to ship us two new systems (2Ghz/ATI 9600 - which was stock at that time) and we shipped back the two 1.8Ghz that were having the most problem. I think they eventually fixed it with the 10.3.5 patch, the issues went away.
I would guess it was an ATI DRIVER/ OSX kernel issue.... maybe 10.4.12 and it gets patched?
We have new Mac towers - so far so good... and a few new Mac Book Pro's .. but its too early to tell. /knock on wood!
I get the "ASIC Hang Log" every time it freezes. I've accumulated about a dozen of those now; I save them every time.
I've followed this issue closely, and at least on the aluminum iMacs, it appears to be the same thing. There is a definite issue revolving around the ATI cards or drivers that is currently producing the same issues for a lot of people. It's not always consistent or reproducible, but it's there. There's no way this is all a huge coincidence.
When is Apple going to admit this problem? I'm sick of AppleCare insisting they've never heard of it before. The retail stores are not much better, just running tests that have nothing to do with this issue, and giving people replacement iMacs with the same issue.
My symptoms have always been exactly like everyone is suddenly reporting about the new iMacs ... on nvidia Macs from early 2007.
I have been through the wringer with this problem on both a 24" iMac (nvidia), and a MacBook of the same vintage. Apple rebuilt the iMac once (new RAM, HD, motherboard), and replaced it entirely once, but the problem is not solved. Exhaustive troubleshooting has thoroughly eliminated every imaginable common system stability problem.
Nice to have company with the new reports. I felt so alone until now ...