I am definitely a victim of the hype and innovations, without examining what was missing before I bought, however "jobs" claiming a phone missing this many features is a smartphone, is somewhat misleading.
Perhaps if you examined your expectations, you'd find that you are a victim of whatever phenomena that is running rampant on this forum.
Jobs described the iPhone as "the best iPod we've ever made". He continued to characterize the device in exactly that manner interview after interview.
One point you've made I DO agree with - you definitely seem to be a victim.
Perhaps if you examined your expectations, you'd find that you are a victim of whatever phenomena that is running rampant on this forum.
Jobs described the iPhone as "the best iPod we've ever made". He continued to characterize the device in exactly that manner interview after interview.
One point you've made I DO agree with - you definitely seem to be a victim.
Taskiss,
Another poster talked about the difference between European and American mobile phone expecatations. It seems another difference between America and other countries is the inability to discuss a subject without a personal attack in the USA. Taskiss it seems you own an iPhone, do some of your other consumer choices involve watching Fox News or attaching Bush Cheney 04 bumper stickers to your car?
P.S Definition of smartphone according to Wikipedia:
"A smartphone is a full-featured mobile phone with personal computer like functionality...
The very concept and definition of a smartphone is recent and changing. If anything, Apple's iPhone influences the definition of smartphone more than it is influenced by it.
With such rapidly shifting sands, semantic arguments are empty.
For example, you realize that "computers" are rarely used these days to literally "compute," their original user application from which they continue to derive their antiquated namesake. Should we sue all the computer companies because what they continue to call "computers" are more generally used for word processing, internet, graphics, media, etc. ?
Another poster talked about the difference between European and American mobile phone expecatations. It seems another difference between America and other countries is the inability to discuss a subject without a personal attack in the USA. Taskiss it seems you own an iPhone, do some of your other consumer choices involve watching Fox News or attaching Bush Cheney 04 bumper stickers to your car?
Like you are doing now ? Don't know about you pal , but usually , if somebody wants to hold the high ground against ad hominems by other posters , they just ignore the latter and focus on the subject at hand . And oh btw , your definition of of a smart phone is a laptop with telecommunication capabilities .
And oh yeah , putting political figures on a post that has nothing to do with the debate at hand reflects on the intellectual desperation of a poster that has been throughly beaten by his intellectual superior IMO .
Another poster talked about the difference between European and American mobile phone expecatations. It seems another difference between America and other countries is the inability to discuss a subject without a personal attack in the USA. Taskiss it seems you own an iPhone, do some of your other consumer choices involve watching Fox News or attaching Bush Cheney 04 bumper stickers to your car?
Henry, you were the one that characterized yourself as a victim, not I. I just attempted to qualify the source of that victimization.
I cant imagine why you object to being identified as a victim when it's pretty obvious your entire position revolves around that. Poor, poor Henry. Isn't that what you want to hear? Why else seek to punish Apple, other than they caused you harm?
I agree the iPhone while a wonderful device is not a smartphone. While I have voiced plenty of disappointment over the phone, I would not take the effort to sue! I would simply vote with how my future dollars are spent and I would not recommend the phone to those needing it seriously for business as I do. I assumed (wrongly) that Apple was serious about going after the business market.
The business people who purchased the phone purchased it in many cases because we also owned a MacBookPro and wanted easiy syncing... Being a business entrepreneur, I was also wanting the underdog Apple to continue making progress against MicroSoft. While I am disappointed in Apple's approach, I travel extensively and I am a very serious music lover and movie buff so the device does a good job in that effort. I did not buy the phone because I thought this $600 dollar purchase would make me cool. (How lame is that anyway)
I wish in my dreams that the phone was a more credible competitor to the Blackberry for business functions but the Blackberry is head and shoulders above iPhone. I will hang in there until after the Leopard release but if there is not something better suited to business, I will sell the iPhone, buy a iTouch and a Blackberry. That is the best solution for how I plan to use a Smartphone.
I agree the iPhone while a wonderful device is not a smartphone. While I have voiced plenty of disappointment over the phone, I would not take the effort to sue! I would simply vote with how my future dollars are spent and I would not recommend the phone to those needing it seriously for business as I do. I assumed (wrongly) that Apple was serious about going after the business market.
The business people who purchased the phone purchased it in many cases because we also owned a MacBookPro and wanted easiy syncing... Being a business entrepreneur, I was also wanting the underdog Apple to continue making progress against MicroSoft. While I am disappointed in Apple's approach, I travel extensively and I am a very serious music lover and movie buff so the device does a good job in that effort. I did not buy the phone because I thought this $600 dollar purchase would make me cool. (How lame is that anyway)
I wish in my dreams that the phone was a more credible competitor to the Blackberry for business functions but the Blackberry is head and shoulders above iPhone. I will hang in there until after the Leopard release but if there is not something better suited to business, I will sell the iPhone, buy a iTouch and a Blackberry. That is the best solution for how I plan to use a Smartphone.
My only question about this is why would you even assume Apple was even trying to address the business market. They specifically targeted 'consumers' and said so. They (and AT&T) specifically excluded marketing of the iPhone to AT&T business customers and did not provide for business accounts to be included in the current sales. I think it was very clear, from the get-go, that business users were NOT the current target. The business expectations of the iPhone were all hype and expectations built outside of Apple/AT&T
My only question about this is why would you even assume Apple was even trying to address the business market. They specifically targeted 'consumers' and said so. They (and AT&T) specifically excluded marketing of the iPhone to AT&T business customers and did not provide for business accounts to be included in the current sales. I think it was very clear, from the get-go, that business users were NOT the current target. The business expectations of the iPhone were all hype and expectations built outside of Apple/AT&T
That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree, however the expectation it was a smartphone was in the keynote introducing the product. Jobs said "smarter than a smartphone. He compared it to atleast 4 smartphones. The smartphone expectations were built by Steve Jobs I would say he is in Apple.
That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree, however the expectation it was a smartphone was in the keynote introducing the product. Jobs said "smarter than a smartphone. He compared it to atleast 4 smartphones. The smartphone expectations were built by Steve Jobs I would say he is in Apple.
Did you watch the keynote?
-Henry
So what does "smarter than a smart phone" even mean? "Has every feature of what is currently being marketed as a 'smart phone' plus some others?"
Maybe it means "smarter about how it delivers features the average person wants and would use now if most phones weren't so insanely complex."
Maybe it means "smarter by creating a new class of phone that combines the ease of use of "just a phone" with a striking implementation of mobile communications device and media player."
You can't take a highly subjective comment like "smarter than a smart phone" and make of it some kind contractual obligation, or even an implied promise.
The problem being that, insofar as "smart phone" means something as a marketing tool, "smarter" is just an english word that, in this context, means "better", or perhaps "cleverer", and better or cleverer is in the eye of the user. It's not a quantifiable metric like "faster" or "quieter" or "cheaper", it's a term of art.
You're free to find Apple's definition of "better" to be lacking, or just wrong, but that's not the same as having a case for holding Apple to some imaginary promise or being upset that they have let anyone down, in any coherent way.
That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree, however the expectation it was a smartphone was in the keynote introducing the product. Jobs said "smarter than a smartphone. He compared it to atleast 4 smartphones. The smartphone expectations were built by Steve Jobs I would say he is in Apple.
Did you watch the keynote?
-Henry
Of course I watched the keynote, and nowhere did anyone say this was a phone for business users, which is all I was commenting on. addabox did a better job than I would on the rest. You're just projecting your wishes on what was actually said. As I've said in many other other threads - Apple delivered almost exactly what they specified (some bugs, not unexpected).
That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree...
Don't you think the line between consumer and business is getting blurrier? While the iPhone isn't optimized for business systems, in practice, I think a lot of people use them in a mixed environment.
Don't you think the line between consumer and business is getting blurrier? While the iPhone isn't optimized for business systems, in practice, I think a lot of people use them in a mixed environment.
I think this is true and one of the things Apple is trying to do is to add a branch to the development. Instead of just adding new features, making things bigger, another bell, etc., they added UI elegance and usability and integration. They chose not to bring all the features into this branch at this time. This is one of the main areas of disappointment.
Please don't flame me, I am an iphone owner who has come to some conclusions regarding the expectations set by Steve Jobs and the actual product. The Iphone was compared to a smartphone in the Steve Jobs Keynote. It was actually compared to 4 smartphones. There is no way this phone is a smart phone for the following reasons:
1. No file system
2. No way to add local apps.
3. No cut and paste
4. No to do list function.
5. No tethering paid for or not.
6. No adding internet plug-ins to Safari
7. No way to edit word and excel files
8. No video recording
9. No way to safely unlock the device and avoid $2 overseas roaming.
10. No internet messaging client
11. No games(picky I know, but what phone does not have a single game?).
Maybe the phone doesn't come with games and that other crap, but you can put them on there. I have an iphone, and I have over 150 games, safari, aim and yahoo. I can't edit Microsoft stuff though - It's an APPLE phone.
On their website, they claim that Chevy is "An American Revolution". The Random House Unabridged Dictionary defines "revolution" as "an overthrow or repudiation and the thorough replacement of an established government or political system by the people governed." Chevy cars are definitely not a revolution for the following reasons:
- They don't threaten to overthrow or repudiate the US government
Heny, fire up your trusty Wikipedia and look up "marketing".
Comments
I am definitely a victim of the hype and innovations, without examining what was missing before I bought, however "jobs" claiming a phone missing this many features is a smartphone, is somewhat misleading.
Perhaps if you examined your expectations, you'd find that you are a victim of whatever phenomena that is running rampant on this forum.
Jobs described the iPhone as "the best iPod we've ever made". He continued to characterize the device in exactly that manner interview after interview.
One point you've made I DO agree with - you definitely seem to be a victim.
Perhaps if you examined your expectations, you'd find that you are a victim of whatever phenomena that is running rampant on this forum.
Jobs described the iPhone as "the best iPod we've ever made". He continued to characterize the device in exactly that manner interview after interview.
One point you've made I DO agree with - you definitely seem to be a victim.
Taskiss,
Another poster talked about the difference between European and American mobile phone expecatations. It seems another difference between America and other countries is the inability to discuss a subject without a personal attack in the USA. Taskiss it seems you own an iPhone, do some of your other consumer choices involve watching Fox News or attaching Bush Cheney 04 bumper stickers to your car?
P.S Definition of smartphone according to Wikipedia:
"A smartphone is a full-featured mobile phone with personal computer like functionality...
The very concept and definition of a smartphone is recent and changing. If anything, Apple's iPhone influences the definition of smartphone more than it is influenced by it.
With such rapidly shifting sands, semantic arguments are empty.
For example, you realize that "computers" are rarely used these days to literally "compute," their original user application from which they continue to derive their antiquated namesake. Should we sue all the computer companies because what they continue to call "computers" are more generally used for word processing, internet, graphics, media, etc. ?
Taskiss,
Another poster talked about the difference between European and American mobile phone expecatations. It seems another difference between America and other countries is the inability to discuss a subject without a personal attack in the USA. Taskiss it seems you own an iPhone, do some of your other consumer choices involve watching Fox News or attaching Bush Cheney 04 bumper stickers to your car?
Like you are doing now ? Don't know about you pal , but usually , if somebody wants to hold the high ground against ad hominems by other posters , they just ignore the latter and focus on the subject at hand . And oh btw , your definition of of a smart phone is a laptop with telecommunication capabilities .
And oh yeah , putting political figures on a post that has nothing to do with the debate at hand reflects on the intellectual desperation of a poster that has been throughly beaten by his intellectual superior IMO .
Taskiss,
Another poster talked about the difference between European and American mobile phone expecatations. It seems another difference between America and other countries is the inability to discuss a subject without a personal attack in the USA. Taskiss it seems you own an iPhone, do some of your other consumer choices involve watching Fox News or attaching Bush Cheney 04 bumper stickers to your car?
Henry, you were the one that characterized yourself as a victim, not I. I just attempted to qualify the source of that victimization.
I cant imagine why you object to being identified as a victim when it's pretty obvious your entire position revolves around that. Poor, poor Henry. Isn't that what you want to hear? Why else seek to punish Apple, other than they caused you harm?
The business people who purchased the phone purchased it in many cases because we also owned a MacBookPro and wanted easiy syncing... Being a business entrepreneur, I was also wanting the underdog Apple to continue making progress against MicroSoft. While I am disappointed in Apple's approach, I travel extensively and I am a very serious music lover and movie buff so the device does a good job in that effort. I did not buy the phone because I thought this $600 dollar purchase would make me cool. (How lame is that anyway)
I wish in my dreams that the phone was a more credible competitor to the Blackberry for business functions but the Blackberry is head and shoulders above iPhone. I will hang in there until after the Leopard release but if there is not something better suited to business, I will sell the iPhone, buy a iTouch and a Blackberry. That is the best solution for how I plan to use a Smartphone.
I agree the iPhone while a wonderful device is not a smartphone. While I have voiced plenty of disappointment over the phone, I would not take the effort to sue! I would simply vote with how my future dollars are spent and I would not recommend the phone to those needing it seriously for business as I do. I assumed (wrongly) that Apple was serious about going after the business market.
The business people who purchased the phone purchased it in many cases because we also owned a MacBookPro and wanted easiy syncing... Being a business entrepreneur, I was also wanting the underdog Apple to continue making progress against MicroSoft. While I am disappointed in Apple's approach, I travel extensively and I am a very serious music lover and movie buff so the device does a good job in that effort. I did not buy the phone because I thought this $600 dollar purchase would make me cool. (How lame is that anyway)
I wish in my dreams that the phone was a more credible competitor to the Blackberry for business functions but the Blackberry is head and shoulders above iPhone. I will hang in there until after the Leopard release but if there is not something better suited to business, I will sell the iPhone, buy a iTouch and a Blackberry. That is the best solution for how I plan to use a Smartphone.
My only question about this is why would you even assume Apple was even trying to address the business market. They specifically targeted 'consumers' and said so. They (and AT&T) specifically excluded marketing of the iPhone to AT&T business customers and did not provide for business accounts to be included in the current sales. I think it was very clear, from the get-go, that business users were NOT the current target. The business expectations of the iPhone were all hype and expectations built outside of Apple/AT&T
My only question about this is why would you even assume Apple was even trying to address the business market. They specifically targeted 'consumers' and said so. They (and AT&T) specifically excluded marketing of the iPhone to AT&T business customers and did not provide for business accounts to be included in the current sales. I think it was very clear, from the get-go, that business users were NOT the current target. The business expectations of the iPhone were all hype and expectations built outside of Apple/AT&T
That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree, however the expectation it was a smartphone was in the keynote introducing the product. Jobs said "smarter than a smartphone. He compared it to atleast 4 smartphones. The smartphone expectations were built by Steve Jobs I would say he is in Apple.
Did you watch the keynote?
-Henry
That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree, however the expectation it was a smartphone was in the keynote introducing the product. Jobs said "smarter than a smartphone. He compared it to atleast 4 smartphones. The smartphone expectations were built by Steve Jobs I would say he is in Apple.
Did you watch the keynote?
-Henry
So what does "smarter than a smart phone" even mean? "Has every feature of what is currently being marketed as a 'smart phone' plus some others?"
Maybe it means "smarter about how it delivers features the average person wants and would use now if most phones weren't so insanely complex."
Maybe it means "smarter by creating a new class of phone that combines the ease of use of "just a phone" with a striking implementation of mobile communications device and media player."
You can't take a highly subjective comment like "smarter than a smart phone" and make of it some kind contractual obligation, or even an implied promise.
The problem being that, insofar as "smart phone" means something as a marketing tool, "smarter" is just an english word that, in this context, means "better", or perhaps "cleverer", and better or cleverer is in the eye of the user. It's not a quantifiable metric like "faster" or "quieter" or "cheaper", it's a term of art.
You're free to find Apple's definition of "better" to be lacking, or just wrong, but that's not the same as having a case for holding Apple to some imaginary promise or being upset that they have let anyone down, in any coherent way.
That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree, however the expectation it was a smartphone was in the keynote introducing the product. Jobs said "smarter than a smartphone. He compared it to atleast 4 smartphones. The smartphone expectations were built by Steve Jobs I would say he is in Apple.
Did you watch the keynote?
-Henry
Of course I watched the keynote, and nowhere did anyone say this was a phone for business users, which is all I was commenting on. addabox did a better job than I would on the rest. You're just projecting your wishes on what was actually said. As I've said in many other other threads - Apple delivered almost exactly what they specified (some bugs, not unexpected).
That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree...
Don't you think the line between consumer and business is getting blurrier? While the iPhone isn't optimized for business systems, in practice, I think a lot of people use them in a mixed environment.
Don't you think the line between consumer and business is getting blurrier? While the iPhone isn't optimized for business systems, in practice, I think a lot of people use them in a mixed environment.
I think this is true and one of the things Apple is trying to do is to add a branch to the development. Instead of just adding new features, making things bigger, another bell, etc., they added UI elegance and usability and integration. They chose not to bring all the features into this branch at this time. This is one of the main areas of disappointment.
Smart phones typically mean that they can run 3rd party applications, something which was known from day 1 the iphone couldnt do - Fact
Nokia marketed the N93 and N95 with "DVD Like video recording" yet we all know they dont really - Fact.
Just get over it.
Or maybe when Jobs said "smarter" he meant it would be smart enough to maek you buy it without reading whats on the label first. lol
Please don't flame me, I am an iphone owner who has come to some conclusions regarding the expectations set by Steve Jobs and the actual product. The Iphone was compared to a smartphone in the Steve Jobs Keynote. It was actually compared to 4 smartphones. There is no way this phone is a smart phone for the following reasons:
1. No file system
2. No way to add local apps.
3. No cut and paste
4. No to do list function.
5. No tethering paid for or not.
6. No adding internet plug-ins to Safari
7. No way to edit word and excel files
8. No video recording
9. No way to safely unlock the device and avoid $2 overseas roaming.
10. No internet messaging client
11. No games(picky I know, but what phone does not have a single game?).
Maybe the phone doesn't come with games and that other crap, but you can put them on there. I have an iphone, and I have over 150 games, safari, aim and yahoo. I can't edit Microsoft stuff though - It's an APPLE phone.
- Rach
On their website, they claim that Chevy is "An American Revolution". The Random House Unabridged Dictionary defines "revolution" as "an overthrow or repudiation and the thorough replacement of an established government or political system by the people governed." Chevy cars are definitely not a revolution for the following reasons:
- They don't threaten to overthrow or repudiate the US government
Heny, fire up your trusty Wikipedia and look up "marketing".
BTW I am not trolling, I am serious.