I did not say the manufacturer locked the phone. I said the manufacturer will make a phone that includes functionality specific to that carrier and not for other carriers. There are some phones that are generically sold with software update from the carrier. But many of the best selling phones with lots of functions are made specifically for the carrier.
Come on the Sidekick may be a GSM phone but it is clearly made to specifically work with T-Mobile.
The LG 9400 is specifically designed for Verizon and V Cast.
That is an unlocked phone. I'm talking about phones from the carrier, which is how most people get their phones.
I'm sure people have hacked around it but that does not change the fact that T-Mobile made the Sidekick specific to T-Mobile's network.
Please be aware that the Danger Sidekick's GPRS-data software will only work on the T-Mobile USA network. The Sidekick's voice and text messaging functions should continue to function correctly with another carriers SIM card after the phone is unlocked.
Thank You,
Sim Unlock Department
T-Mobile USA, Inc.
You still disregard Sprint and Verizon.
OK, since you can't read, I will try this one last time. Sprint, Verizon, All-Tel, and some other smaller carriers operate on the CDMA network. T-Mobile and AT&T use GSM. Think of this as the difference between 802.11g and 802.11a. They are not compatible technologies and do not work together. (of course with the 802.11 analogy access points can have both technologies and cell phones cannot) So essentially you cannot take a CDMA phone and make it work on GSM or vice versa. You can, however, take a phone from one CDMA carrier to another. Say you can by a phone from Verizon and take it to Sprint. CDMA doesn't make this as simple as GSM because you can't simply unlock the phone and take it to the other network. The carriers information is stored on the phone so you need to take the phone to the new carrier and have it flashed with the new carriers info. Many carriers are uneasy about doing this for a few reasons and you will find it easier just to buy a new phone from the new carrier. GSM phones store this info on the SIM card which transfers to the new phone with the SIM. This means if the phone is unlocked it works. Each carrier has a different network and some features of a phone may not work or not work as well on the other carrier.
The T-Mobile Dash works just fine on AT&T when unlocked. All data, messaging, and voice work perfect. I also applaud T-Mobile for having such a great support team for unlocking phones and supporting non t-mobile phones. I also used a Moto V551 from Cingular with T-Mobile for a while which worked perfect as well. I cannot comment on the Sidekick specifically as I never tried that phone. Have you tried it or know anyone who has? It might be a frequency issue or something strange. I have found T-Mobile to be the least locked down company in this area so it would surprise me to learn this. FYI the sidekick is specific to T-Mobile as they paid for it. It is branded T-Mobile just like the Dash and SDA.
Sprint, Verizon, All-Tel, and some other smaller carriers operate on the CDMA network. T-Mobile and AT&T use GSM.
I know this. The point you seem to miss is that the effect of them using different types of networks makes it difficult and costly for people to switch carriers. Which in effect makes it difficult or impossible to unlock your phone and switch to another carrier.
Quote:
You can, however, take a phone from one CDMA carrier to another. Say you can by a phone from Verizon and take it to Sprint. The carriers information is stored on the phone so you need to take the phone to the new carrier and have it flashed with the new carriers info.
I've never heard of anyone unlocking a CDMA phone so I looked around about it. What I discovered is that while technically possible the process can be difficult and you're never really sure if it will work. Verizon, Sprint, Alltel don't have to accept your phone on to their network.
Sprint keeps a database of its ESN numbers and under no circumstance will they allow a phone onto their network that was not purchased from Sprint.
From the I reports I read, Verizon sounds unpredictable. Some people were able to get CDMA phones not bought through Verizon accepted to their network, some people were not able to. I could not find any official stance on this from Verizon. I saw some rumors that Verizon were going to collect an ESN database like Sprint and lock their network the same way.
I also read that if you are successful in getting a CDMA phone accepted to Verizon. That does not necessarily mean you will be able to use all of the phones functions or be able to use all of Verizons services. Because phone hardware and software can vary so much it does not automatically work with Verizons service.
From what I read the process is so unpredictable and difficult that its not worth the effort for most people. Which is why most people don't bother.
Quote:
T-Mobile for having such a great support team for unlocking phones and supporting non t-mobile phones.
I would imagine T-Mobile is so open to supporting unlocked phones is because of their small marketshare. ATT and Verizon having much larger marketshares have more to loose and are more invested in locking customers into their service.
Quote:
Have you tried it or know anyone who has?
Yes I know quite a few people with the SideKick.
Quote:
FYI the sidekick is specific to T-Mobile as they paid for it. It is branded T-Mobile just like the Dash and SDA.
I'm sure. What my point is inspite of the fact that its possible to modify or load new software, the SideKick's original intent is specific to the T-Mobile network.
I know this. The point you seem to miss is that the effect of them using different types of networks makes it difficult and costly for people to switch carriers. Which in effect makes it difficult or impossible to unlock your phone and switch to another carrier.
In most cases only if you are switching to one that uses a complete different technology. I am able to switch from T-Mobile phones to AT&T and back and forth all the time. Unlocking ranges from $5.00 to $25.00 depending on the type of phone you have.
Quote:
I've never heard of anyone unlocking a CDMA phone so I looked around about it. What I discovered is that while technically possible the process can be difficult and you're never really sure if it will work. Verizon, Sprint, Alltel don't have to accept your phone on to their network.
Sprint keeps a database of its ESN numbers and under no circumstance will they allow a phone onto their network that was not purchased from Sprint.
From the I reports I read, Verizon sounds unpredictable. Some people were able to get CDMA phones not bought through Verizon accepted to their network, some people were not able to. I could not find any official stance on this from Verizon. I saw some rumors that Verizon were going to collect an ESN database like Sprint and lock their network the same way.
That is true, they don't have to accept it. This is part of the reason Sprint is losing market share. People don't like to be restricted. CDMA requires the ESN number of the phone to be entered into their system in order for the phone to work. To over simplify things, it is essentially what ties the phone to your phone number in CDMA. On a GSM phone, all this info is linked by your SIM card making it an easy switch. btw, Sprint also makes you buy ringtones from them and does not allow you to make your own.
Quote:
I also read that if you are successful in getting a CDMA phone accepted to Verizon. That does not necessarily mean you will be able to use all of the phones functions or be able to use all of Verizons services. Because phone hardware and software can vary so much it does not automatically work with Verizons service.
From what I read the process is so unpredictable and difficult that its not worth the effort for most people. Which is why most people don't bother.
Again you are correct. The same is so if I have a 3G phone from another network, I am not going to be able to use that feature on AT&T because of their ancient EDGE network. It is simply not supported. If I have an old phone, I can't magically use MP3 ringtones either. If someone was to unlock the iPhone and bring it to T-Mobile, visual voice mail would not function.
Quote:
I would imagine T-Mobile is so open to supporting unlocked phones is because of their small marketshare. ATT and Verizon having much larger marketshares have more to loose and are more invested in locking customers into their service.
I can say from my experience with T-Mobile, that their customer service is far superior to that of Verizon or AT&T. It might have to do with the smaller market share, since I hear the opposite of them in Germany.
Quote:
Yes I know quite a few people with the SideKick.
I'm sure. What my point is inspite of the fact that its possible to modify or load new software, the SideKick's original intent is specific to the T-Mobile network.
True, but what you need to understand is that the sidekick is built for T-Mobile the way the iPhone is built for Apple. T-Mobile doesn't technically do the manufacturing, but it is a T-Mobile product. The same that the iPhone is an Apple product, not an AT&T product.
My point is simply that the phone manufactures are not the ones in the fight to lock down phones. Only Apple has tried to do this. Obviously the carrier wants you to use their phone on their network. That way they sold you a product and a service. T-Mobile takes this a step farther by saying the money is in the service, not the product, so bring whatever you want to talk on over to us and we'll try to make it work. Let AT&T fight this like in the past.
In most cases only if you are switching to one that uses a complete different technology.
Europe is dominated by GSM - Asia is dominated by CDMA. In both situations it is much easier to move your phone to a competing carrier than it is in the US.
The crux of my point is that the US carriers have placed barriers to prevent customers from easily or cheaply changing to a competing carrier. Even though it is technically possible to move your phone from one carrier to another, it is a difficult and unpredictable enough process to frustrate most people from attempting it.
Quote:
This is part of the reason Sprint is losing market share. People don't like to be restricted.
I doubt it. There aren't many people who even know that its technically possible to take your phone to another carrier and very little demand to do so. Of those who do attempt to do this there are so many hurdles that its only the die hard who bother to go through with it.
AT&T (NYSE: T) on Tuesday announced new policies that apply to customers changing calling plans or exiting contracts early.
Starting next month, customers who change a wireless calling plan will no longer be required to extend their current contact with AT&T or sign a new contract.
Customers who terminate a contact early will no longer have to pay a flat early termination fee. The fee will be lowered during the term of the contact. The early termination policy, however, will go into effect early next year and will apple to new and renewing customers who sign a one or a two-year contract.
I think it is long past time that companies like AT&T and Apple had to pay for their downright criminal activities. I know that I am going to get tons of people who are going to say. "It's not criminal it's in your contract! etc..." There are such things as illegal contracts too. AT&T violates anti trust laws on so many levals it's hard to find a place to begin. However, if you want to send a message to them through the Justice Department sign the petition at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/quitatt/ Only through vigilence and determination will we the consumer force not only AT&T, but anyone who has anything to do with the cell phone industry to play nice.
I think it is long past time that companies like AT&T and Apple had to pay for their downright criminal activities. I know that I am going to get tons of people who are going to say. "It's not criminal it's in your contract! etc..." There are such things as illegal contracts too. AT&T violates anti trust laws on so many levals it's hard to find a place to begin. However, if you want to send a message to them through the Justice Department sign the petition at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/quitatt/ Only through vigilence and determination will we the consumer force not only AT&T, but anyone who has anything to do with the cell phone industry to play nice.
We have a troll!
If you are so upset by AT&T why would you buy a phone from them in the first place?
Comments
I did not say the manufacturer locked the phone. I said the manufacturer will make a phone that includes functionality specific to that carrier and not for other carriers. There are some phones that are generically sold with software update from the carrier. But many of the best selling phones with lots of functions are made specifically for the carrier.
Come on the Sidekick may be a GSM phone but it is clearly made to specifically work with T-Mobile.
The LG 9400 is specifically designed for Verizon and V Cast.
That is an unlocked phone. I'm talking about phones from the carrier, which is how most people get their phones.
I'm sure people have hacked around it but that does not change the fact that T-Mobile made the Sidekick specific to T-Mobile's network.
Please be aware that the Danger Sidekick's GPRS-data software will only work on the T-Mobile USA network. The Sidekick's voice and text messaging functions should continue to function correctly with another carriers SIM card after the phone is unlocked.
Thank You,
Sim Unlock Department
T-Mobile USA, Inc.
You still disregard Sprint and Verizon.
OK, since you can't read, I will try this one last time. Sprint, Verizon, All-Tel, and some other smaller carriers operate on the CDMA network. T-Mobile and AT&T use GSM. Think of this as the difference between 802.11g and 802.11a. They are not compatible technologies and do not work together. (of course with the 802.11 analogy access points can have both technologies and cell phones cannot) So essentially you cannot take a CDMA phone and make it work on GSM or vice versa. You can, however, take a phone from one CDMA carrier to another. Say you can by a phone from Verizon and take it to Sprint. CDMA doesn't make this as simple as GSM because you can't simply unlock the phone and take it to the other network. The carriers information is stored on the phone so you need to take the phone to the new carrier and have it flashed with the new carriers info. Many carriers are uneasy about doing this for a few reasons and you will find it easier just to buy a new phone from the new carrier. GSM phones store this info on the SIM card which transfers to the new phone with the SIM. This means if the phone is unlocked it works. Each carrier has a different network and some features of a phone may not work or not work as well on the other carrier.
The T-Mobile Dash works just fine on AT&T when unlocked. All data, messaging, and voice work perfect. I also applaud T-Mobile for having such a great support team for unlocking phones and supporting non t-mobile phones. I also used a Moto V551 from Cingular with T-Mobile for a while which worked perfect as well. I cannot comment on the Sidekick specifically as I never tried that phone. Have you tried it or know anyone who has? It might be a frequency issue or something strange. I have found T-Mobile to be the least locked down company in this area so it would surprise me to learn this. FYI the sidekick is specific to T-Mobile as they paid for it. It is branded T-Mobile just like the Dash and SDA.
OK, since you can't read
Nice, we move on to condescension.
Sprint, Verizon, All-Tel, and some other smaller carriers operate on the CDMA network. T-Mobile and AT&T use GSM.
I know this. The point you seem to miss is that the effect of them using different types of networks makes it difficult and costly for people to switch carriers. Which in effect makes it difficult or impossible to unlock your phone and switch to another carrier.
You can, however, take a phone from one CDMA carrier to another. Say you can by a phone from Verizon and take it to Sprint. The carriers information is stored on the phone so you need to take the phone to the new carrier and have it flashed with the new carriers info.
I've never heard of anyone unlocking a CDMA phone so I looked around about it. What I discovered is that while technically possible the process can be difficult and you're never really sure if it will work. Verizon, Sprint, Alltel don't have to accept your phone on to their network.
Sprint keeps a database of its ESN numbers and under no circumstance will they allow a phone onto their network that was not purchased from Sprint.
From the I reports I read, Verizon sounds unpredictable. Some people were able to get CDMA phones not bought through Verizon accepted to their network, some people were not able to. I could not find any official stance on this from Verizon. I saw some rumors that Verizon were going to collect an ESN database like Sprint and lock their network the same way.
I also read that if you are successful in getting a CDMA phone accepted to Verizon. That does not necessarily mean you will be able to use all of the phones functions or be able to use all of Verizons services. Because phone hardware and software can vary so much it does not automatically work with Verizons service.
From what I read the process is so unpredictable and difficult that its not worth the effort for most people. Which is why most people don't bother.
T-Mobile for having such a great support team for unlocking phones and supporting non t-mobile phones.
I would imagine T-Mobile is so open to supporting unlocked phones is because of their small marketshare. ATT and Verizon having much larger marketshares have more to loose and are more invested in locking customers into their service.
Have you tried it or know anyone who has?
Yes I know quite a few people with the SideKick.
FYI the sidekick is specific to T-Mobile as they paid for it. It is branded T-Mobile just like the Dash and SDA.
I'm sure. What my point is inspite of the fact that its possible to modify or load new software, the SideKick's original intent is specific to the T-Mobile network.
I know this. The point you seem to miss is that the effect of them using different types of networks makes it difficult and costly for people to switch carriers. Which in effect makes it difficult or impossible to unlock your phone and switch to another carrier.
In most cases only if you are switching to one that uses a complete different technology. I am able to switch from T-Mobile phones to AT&T and back and forth all the time. Unlocking ranges from $5.00 to $25.00 depending on the type of phone you have.
I've never heard of anyone unlocking a CDMA phone so I looked around about it. What I discovered is that while technically possible the process can be difficult and you're never really sure if it will work. Verizon, Sprint, Alltel don't have to accept your phone on to their network.
Sprint keeps a database of its ESN numbers and under no circumstance will they allow a phone onto their network that was not purchased from Sprint.
From the I reports I read, Verizon sounds unpredictable. Some people were able to get CDMA phones not bought through Verizon accepted to their network, some people were not able to. I could not find any official stance on this from Verizon. I saw some rumors that Verizon were going to collect an ESN database like Sprint and lock their network the same way.
That is true, they don't have to accept it. This is part of the reason Sprint is losing market share. People don't like to be restricted. CDMA requires the ESN number of the phone to be entered into their system in order for the phone to work. To over simplify things, it is essentially what ties the phone to your phone number in CDMA. On a GSM phone, all this info is linked by your SIM card making it an easy switch. btw, Sprint also makes you buy ringtones from them and does not allow you to make your own.
I also read that if you are successful in getting a CDMA phone accepted to Verizon. That does not necessarily mean you will be able to use all of the phones functions or be able to use all of Verizons services. Because phone hardware and software can vary so much it does not automatically work with Verizons service.
From what I read the process is so unpredictable and difficult that its not worth the effort for most people. Which is why most people don't bother.
Again you are correct. The same is so if I have a 3G phone from another network, I am not going to be able to use that feature on AT&T because of their ancient EDGE network. It is simply not supported. If I have an old phone, I can't magically use MP3 ringtones either. If someone was to unlock the iPhone and bring it to T-Mobile, visual voice mail would not function.
I would imagine T-Mobile is so open to supporting unlocked phones is because of their small marketshare. ATT and Verizon having much larger marketshares have more to loose and are more invested in locking customers into their service.
I can say from my experience with T-Mobile, that their customer service is far superior to that of Verizon or AT&T. It might have to do with the smaller market share, since I hear the opposite of them in Germany.
Yes I know quite a few people with the SideKick.
I'm sure. What my point is inspite of the fact that its possible to modify or load new software, the SideKick's original intent is specific to the T-Mobile network.
True, but what you need to understand is that the sidekick is built for T-Mobile the way the iPhone is built for Apple. T-Mobile doesn't technically do the manufacturing, but it is a T-Mobile product. The same that the iPhone is an Apple product, not an AT&T product.
My point is simply that the phone manufactures are not the ones in the fight to lock down phones. Only Apple has tried to do this. Obviously the carrier wants you to use their phone on their network. That way they sold you a product and a service. T-Mobile takes this a step farther by saying the money is in the service, not the product, so bring whatever you want to talk on over to us and we'll try to make it work. Let AT&T fight this like in the past.
In most cases only if you are switching to one that uses a complete different technology.
Europe is dominated by GSM - Asia is dominated by CDMA. In both situations it is much easier to move your phone to a competing carrier than it is in the US.
The crux of my point is that the US carriers have placed barriers to prevent customers from easily or cheaply changing to a competing carrier. Even though it is technically possible to move your phone from one carrier to another, it is a difficult and unpredictable enough process to frustrate most people from attempting it.
This is part of the reason Sprint is losing market share. People don't like to be restricted.
I doubt it. There aren't many people who even know that its technically possible to take your phone to another carrier and very little demand to do so. Of those who do attempt to do this there are so many hurdles that its only the die hard who bother to go through with it.
AT&T (NYSE: T) on Tuesday announced new policies that apply to customers changing calling plans or exiting contracts early.
Starting next month, customers who change a wireless calling plan will no longer be required to extend their current contact with AT&T or sign a new contract.
Customers who terminate a contact early will no longer have to pay a flat early termination fee. The fee will be lowered during the term of the contact. The early termination policy, however, will go into effect early next year and will apple to new and renewing customers who sign a one or a two-year contract.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=202403410
I think it is long past time that companies like AT&T and Apple had to pay for their downright criminal activities. I know that I am going to get tons of people who are going to say. "It's not criminal it's in your contract! etc..." There are such things as illegal contracts too. AT&T violates anti trust laws on so many levals it's hard to find a place to begin. However, if you want to send a message to them through the Justice Department sign the petition at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/quitatt/ Only through vigilence and determination will we the consumer force not only AT&T, but anyone who has anything to do with the cell phone industry to play nice.
We have a troll!
If you are so upset by AT&T why would you buy a phone from them in the first place?
I don't see anyone holding a gun to your head.
Typical.....