Road Mac OS X Leopard: Mail 3.0

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  • Reply 21 of 107
    gustavgustav Posts: 824member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prism View Post


    What's the point of having smart folders when the mail itself stays in the inbox with the rest of the mail, of which a lot isn't filtered???



    Smart folders are just a fancy way of saying "Live Searches". If you think of them as an always up-to-date search, you may use them more effectively. For example, deal with the mail in the smart folders first, and you then won't have to deal with them in the inbox.
  • Reply 22 of 107
    ak1808ak1808 Posts: 108member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mugwump View Post


    Meh, the whole thing smacks of the Apple executives spending all their time using Mail, and thereby want to place all of these unrelated features in there.



    I guess if the executive of a multi-billion-dollar company is using it (successfully), I should be just fine...
  • Reply 23 of 107
    gustavgustav Posts: 824member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hohlecow View Post


    And todos? Is that really the domain of Mail?



    For some people, yes. For some, their Mail application is the center of their work day - all work starts and ends within mail, so To-dos actually work there.



    I don't know for certain, but I'll bet you can turn To-dos off in Mail if you don't like them.
  • Reply 24 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hohlecow View Post


    Mail seems to be getting a little too much functionality, in my opinion. RSS makes sense (its kind of like mail), but notes and todos?



    Have stickies fallen out of favor? With a "manager" interface, they could have easily been the default note store.



    And todos? Is that really the domain of Mail? Why not leave that in iCal (does the new iCal still manage todos as well?



    I may be wrong but I got the impression from the article that any ToDo's marked in an email still go into iCal, it's just that they provide a link to that specific email where they were marked.
  • Reply 25 of 107
    mactelmactel Posts: 1,275member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lafe View Post


    These articles are great! Keep 'em coming!



    (But this one ended with no conclusion / wrap up. It just kind of . . . stopped.)



    I was looking for that wrap-up too. Mail 3.0 looks impressive with its new layout. The notes thing is handy.



    Like most client/server solutions, the real power of Mail 3.0 may not be realized until Leopard Server is throne into the equation. With iCal server and Mail server there's probably some server-side goodness that this article is skipping. Of course, most users won't have the ability to have Leopard Server on their home network so this article is geared correctly.
  • Reply 26 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hohlecow View Post


    Mail seems to be getting a little too much functionality, in my opinion. RSS makes sense (its kind of like mail), but notes and todos?



    Have stickies fallen out of favor? With a "manager" interface, they could have easily been the default note store.



    And todos? Is that really the domain of Mail? Why not leave that in iCal (does the new iCal still manage todos as well?



    "Every to-do you create includes a link to the original email or note, and to-dos automatically appear in iCal, complete with any edits or additions you make."

    That's from Apple's website. So they're in both really. Best of both worlds.
  • Reply 27 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by siren77 View Post


    I may be wrong but I got the impression from the article that any ToDo's marked in an email still go into iCal, it's just that they provide a link to that specific email where they were marked.



    You are correct - ToDo's and Notes can be used and accessed system wide.





    http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/mail.html



    Quote:

    Much ado about to-dos.

    Forget manually entering a new item to your to-do list every time an email hits your inbox. Simply highlight text in an email, then click the To-do icon to create a to-do from a message. Include a due date, set an alarm, or assign priorities. Every to-do you create includes a link to the original email or note, and to-dos automatically appear in iCal, complete with any edits or additions you make. And since to-dos are stored with your email, you can access them from Mail on any Mac.



  • Reply 28 of 107
    brianusbrianus Posts: 138member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Louzer View Post


    I think he wants to know whether the "Inbox" still will list separate boxes for various mail accounts. If you look at the picture for Tiger, you see that, but don't for Leopard (which might be just a factor of different set-ups).



    The OP said he doesn't use 2.0 because it doesn't include the feature he's asking for, so I doubt he was referring to the separate boxes per account. I doubt they'd get rid of that anyway (and I certainly wouldn't use 3.0 if they did!)



    Bottom line, with the iTunes-inspired "Source lists" replacing sidebars and drawers the OS over, Apple, but also those who have used and commented on Leopard developer builds, really should do a better job explaining how commonly used features have changed and what will require re-learning rather than just focusing on the bells and whistles.
  • Reply 29 of 107
    prismprism Posts: 75member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brianus View Post


    Why do you need sub folders under POP3 accounts? I know other mail clients like Thunderbird allow this, but the distinction between those "sub" folders and regular mail folders is just visual; ultimately, they're just mail stored locally, with no *real* relationship to the POP server they're listed under. Is there a reason you can't just use Mail 2.0's regular, top-level, non-Smart folders?



    But I like the visual thing about it.

    I also have more then one POP3 account.



    I like to have separate sub-folders family, forums, etc, etc.

    What goes on on the mail server, I don't care.

    It's offline where I want my mail filtered.



    It's been a while since I tried Mail 2.0, but if I remember correctly then I couldn't filter to a top-level, non-smart folder from any POP3 Inbox.

    Like I said it's been a while, but if I could I would have been using Mail 2.0 right now.
  • Reply 30 of 107
    brianusbrianus Posts: 138member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hohlecow View Post


    Mail seems to be getting a little too much functionality, in my opinion. RSS makes sense (its kind of like mail), but notes and todos?



    Have stickies fallen out of favor? With a "manager" interface, they could have easily been the default note store.



    And todos? Is that really the domain of Mail? Why not leave that in iCal (does the new iCal still manage todos as well?



    To me, the RSS is the one thing that screams out 'feature creep.' Why web-based newsfeeds in a mail application? Mail is mail, not a newsreader. It can't do usenet, so it shouldn't do web either, and besides, Safari already handles it (and is the more logical app for RSS). Notes and to-dos, though, I understand. To-dos are really just another example of Apple making their productivity apps talk to one another. It's nothing "new" really; it just allows Mail to integrate seamlessly with a feature of iCal just as it already can with features of iPhoto, iChat and Address Book. And it makes perfect sense in a mail app -- in workplaces, tasks are often emailed, and iCal has long supported sending out to-do notifications *through* Mail.app, so this is just the other shoe dropping.



    I agree with you regarding Stickies -- I don't understand why they've decided to make Notes a *part* of Mail (I've read that they're actually stored in a special, local imap mailbox), rather than just providing a Mail interface to a user-account-wide notes store you can also get to through Stickies. Oh well. In my experience, most Mac users aren't even aware Stickies exists.
  • Reply 31 of 107
    I'd love there to be the ability to set it to automatically load images from senders who you have approved images from in the past, as opposed to forcing me to go into Preferences and manually turn off "Automatically Load Images" every time a spam message makes it through the filters and needs to be selected, then deleted.
  • Reply 32 of 107
    brianusbrianus Posts: 138member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prism View Post


    But I like the visual thing about it.

    I also have more then one POP3 account.



    I like to have separate sub-folders family, forums, etc, etc.

    What goes on on the mail server, I don't care.

    It's offline where I want my mail filtered.



    It's been a while since I tried Mail 2.0, but if I remember correctly then I couldn't filter to a top-level, non-smart folder from any POP3 Inbox.

    Like I said it's been a while, but if I could I would have been using Mail 2.0 right now.



    I do it every day. The "+" button in Mail 2.0's lower-left corner by default creates a regular, rather than Smart, mailbox at the top level (they're positioned in the very bottom of the sidebar), stored locally. Email-filtering rules can deliver from any inbox to any of these folders. I have one that pulls certain automated notices out of my work POP inbox into a folder, and another that filters mailing list postings out of an imap account. If you don't mind that the folders are top-level, try it!



    I use Mail at home and Thunderbird at work, in both cases with two POP and two IMAP accounts, and though the visual metaphor is different in their respective sidebars, I really can't see any functional difference. There's little that I can do in one that I can't in the other, with respect to folder management.
  • Reply 33 of 107
    To really break into the corporate world (among a few other things), Apple needs to take the next step (no pun, etc ...) and produce an Exchange-like app. I know several people/companies who hold back on Mac's because of this. I don't know how good or comparable Mail/iCal server is, however.
  • Reply 34 of 107
    I like the functionality in the new Mail, but I think the next step Apple should take is to break it up.



    I think Mail is becoming your all-in-one Organizer. I like apps like this, and I use them now. But I think it'd be better for all if the Organizer was separate from the Mail app. Keep Mail simple (if that's all you use and don't need to organize appointments and todos). Let this Organizer app have interfaces for third parties to plug in their own apps. If I don't care for iCal or Apple's RSS feed reader or even Apple's Mail, I could use a third party solution and if it were compliant with the Organizer API's I could be using OmniFocus, NetNewsWire, or Eudora.



    I realize that the trend is one of history. Apple is just following in the shadow of corporate email clients like Microsoft Exchange and Lotus Nots that used email as a foundation to build all of these extra features and turn it into an all-in-one organizer. In the end, I think Apple would be better off letting third parties bring their best of breed apps to the organizer (by allowing open interfaces and separating from the Mail app) than by trying to come up with all of this functionality itself.



    While I am looking forward to the new features in Mail, the best thing path for the future is to split the out the "organizer" into its own app, and use a slender Mail, iCal, RSS Feed Reader, et al as the built in defaults for the organizer's back end.
  • Reply 35 of 107
    badtzbadtz Posts: 949member
    Does anyone know if the new Mail supports IMAP-IDLE?
  • Reply 36 of 107
    Mail certainly is victim of feature-creep. I agree with Macnoid.



    I used to love Apple apps for their simplicity and focus. Mail used to be just that, a mail client. Safari used to be just a web browser. iTunes used to be just a music player.



    To Do, Notes and RSS do *not* belong in Mail. They belong as separate apps much like Address Book which provides a system-wide contact service used most prominently by Mail and iCal.



    This new trend by Apple is disturbing. The line that separates what is and what isn't an acceptable feature to add to an existing app certainly isn't clear...but I could certainly have seen lightweight To Do, Notes and RSS Reader apps that could have tied into Safari and Mail if need be but would remain stand alone for people that simply need to add a note or add a To Do item without having iCal or Mail open.



    What is wrong with you, Apple? The biggest problem now is whether Apple will ever have the guts to go back onto this decision? When a feature is added, it's not easy to remove it without angering a lot of people that love the idea of having orthogonal features in an app or people that got used to using them within the app. Apple did the right thing with iMovie (simplifying the app) and everyone screamed bloody murder.



    One thing I do love about Mail 3.0 is the data detector. It detects names, addresses, phone numbers with amazing accuracy. This info can then be added to an existing contact or you can create a new one if Mail didn't find that contact in Address Book. It detects dates and times in various formats and languages and will generate an iCal event using that info with the title of the e-mail. Very impressive and practical.



    I hope 10.6 separates Notes and To Do from Mail.



    There's also something wrong with the aesthetics of the app. They changed from normal toolbar icons to gel capsule-like buttons with a smaller icon inside in Tiger...ok. But Leopard is shedding away Aqua and moving to a platinum-look. The Finder, Safari, iCal, iChat, Address Book, Font Book, Dictionary, Calculator have all gone platinum with metal buttons with a black silhouette icon on them. Why hasn't Mail (or Preview for that matter)?



    None of Mail's toolbar buttons would be difficult to represent as a simple black silhouette except perhaps the Junk button. Check Mail is a simple envelop. Reply, Reply-All, Forward, Redirect and Bounce to Sender are just arrows. Delete is just a circle with a diagonal bar within it. Compose is a sheet of paper with a pencil...it's possible to do this as a silhouette and have it recognizable. Print and text sizes already exist in Safari 3.0's resources as black silhouettes.



    Some of the buttons would require more creativity...like the Color icon that pops the color palette up. And the Photo Browser and Show/Hide Stationery icon.



    Perhaps it would make Mail look too drab but it would actually fit in with the rest of Leopard.
  • Reply 37 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by badtz View Post


    Does anyone know if the new Mail supports IMAP-IDLE?



    Good question. I don't think so, but I'd love to be wrong. \



    It'd be nice for push email on my Treo 650.



    regards,

    MAJ
  • Reply 38 of 107
    suhailsuhail Posts: 192member
    NeXT had email back in 1988? How? There was no real internet in 1988! I was running an Amiga and a C128 back then and was considered a NERD, I do not remember email, I do remember local-networking chat-rooms using modems but not emails?



    Weird
  • Reply 39 of 107
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brianus View Post


    Why do you need sub folders under POP3 accounts? I know other mail clients like Thunderbird allow this, but the distinction between those "sub" folders and regular mail folders is just visual; ultimately, they're just mail stored locally, with no *real* relationship to the POP server they're listed under. Is there a reason you can't just use Mail 2.0's regular, top-level, non-Smart folders?



    I don't know about the posters original motivation for his request but there are good reasons to want this sort of arrangement. First; if we acknowledge that Apple storage of E-Mails as individual files is a good thing we then realize they are simple file system objects. This means that writing scripts to work against specific types of E-Mails is very easy.



    Lets say for Example that you can get Mail to sort out all E-Mails of advertisements from a specific vendor for you. If these end up in a specific directory you can then write simple scripts to purge these ads every 45 days for example. Other important E-Mails can be backed up to secondary storage automatically. The idea here is to populate your USB dongle with only the stuff from correspondents that you find important automatically.



    Things like searching for specific files with Finder would be easier too.



    In the end I would want what the original poster is looking for myself. The usability enhancements that Apple is making with OS/X have me looking seriously at it for use on a laptop. This from a Linux user. The thing is they need to move forward as far as removing artificial restrictions with respect to power users.



    Dave
  • Reply 40 of 107
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    For some people, yes. For some, their Mail application is the center of their work day - all work starts and ends within mail, so To-dos actually work there.



    At work, on a MS platform, this is how much of my official use of a computing platform gets used. That is via a mail application. Now this doesn't mean that a separate To-dos application isn't needed or welcomed just that tight integration with such is needed.

    Quote:



    I don't know for certain, but I'll bet you can turn To-dos off in Mail if you don't like them.



    Configurability is always nice! The arrival of 10.5 will be very interesting indeed. I'm hoping it is innovative enough to reduce some of the shame that Apple has taken on with their handling of the iPhone updates.



    Dave
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