Anyone who has bought SCO Unix is fully aware of the effects of proper activation. Microsoft should have done this years ago.If it had it wouldn't have had to charge such outragous prices for it's product. The problem is that as each copy of Office sold it is installed on multiple machines and so it has been essential to charge a really high price.
I suspect that if MS reduced the price by 1/2 but made the licence really secure like SCO most users would accept it. If they then charged a porting fee if a user wants to move to a new machine that would compensate MS because they would not know if it were to be gunueinly moved or just installed on a sceond machine at the same time. If they were really clever they could develop an un-installer which would generate a new activation code allowing the user to re-install on another macnine.
Thanks for all of the thoughts, but short of the cracked code option (and Im not sure how that would go mapped from the same IP against my real copy), it seems like MS has got us stumped. I guess that we might have to wait and see what happens whenn people get it in their hands.
I will be very disturbed if I could not run my own software on either of my G4s.
<strong>Thanks for all of the thoughts, but short of the cracked code option (and Im not sure how that would go mapped from the same IP against my real copy), it seems like MS has got us stumped. I guess that we might have to wait and see what happens whenn people get it in their hands.
I will be very disturbed if I could not run my own software on either of my G4s.
Any ideas very gratefully accepted!
cheers
adam</strong><hr></blockquote>
I rather think MS lawyers will tell you it is not your own software that you have purchased it is their software. You have purchased a license to install it on at most two machines and run it on no more than one at a time.
Its not just MS - Apple are the same for OSX. Its just that Apple don't check.
If you have two machines and you can't afford two copies how is that different from having one machine and not being able to afford one copy ?
As for fair use MS claim they will let you keep it on more than one machine but just not use it one more than one machine. I agree not being able to open Excel on one machine and Word on another is a bit over the top but I guess its the same as not being able to buy just Word and Excel without PowerPoint (which I never use) and getting a discount.
Don't get me wrong I agree the stuff is outrageously overpriced. I just don't see how far you get with the argument that its overpriced therefore I don't have to pay for it.
It's scary to think that Kevin Browne said that MBU would have implemented Windows XP's activation "feature" in Office v.X if they had the time and manpower. I'll believe it when I read the original interview in German, but it's a daunting thought. The profit-maximizing policies of large corporations are starting to take the fun out of being a consumer.
<strong>Has anyone had luck blocking the broadcast port yet?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Gotta get Office v.X first. It's not shipping until Nov. 19. Note that I always pay for one copy of my applications and don't pirate software over the Internet.
First, Escher. No, you can't block all of your ports--you have to use "ports" to have any sort of network traffic, server or not. Servers use ports and keep them open, whether listening or broadcasting, waiting for information to send more information back, so you could say that Office X now has it's own little server inside of it. Anyway, if you were to block all of your ports, your computer's internet connection would be useless. And as far as I know, it may require a log-out, a reconnection, or possibly even a restart (at least of OS X's TCP stack) in order to open/block ports. So that's out of the question--however you're on the right track--one certainly could block all ports between 3000 and 4000 (or 3001 for me, I use port 3000 for my http server), assuming no applications or servers that you wish to continue using access those ports, and then it wouldn't be able to listen or broadcast, if that is the extent of the range of ports it can access. As Belle said, though, if it can't access a port in that range, it may not even function, whether by error, or in case the programmers of Office X presumed users might try this to circumvent the ludicrous licensing scheme. I don't know how to try that, though, or else I would. Any y00n1x experts out there that know about these things?!
Next, JLL, I have to ask: have you ever seen student licensing prices? Most of them are just as much of a joke to a college kid as the regular retail price. Not only that, but what about elementary, junior high, or high school students that want to use this software? What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? I don't even know if Microsoft Office X has student licenses yet, but even if it does, that's still probably going to be a thousand dollars. For a few programs. Insane.
What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? <hr></blockquote>
Yes.
Mind you I rather expect they are all using the copy Daddy got from the office to install on his machine at home under an extended license.
Isn't the MS email ( I have never used it) a free application ?
Isn't the MS email ( I have never used it) a free application ?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
They do make a free app, but the one in question is the bundled (and not seperately available) Microsoft Entourage. It has Tasks, a calendar, advanced email features, and it's wonderful.
If you have two machines and you can't afford two copies how is that different from having one machine and not being able to afford one copy ?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow! I like that point pretty much.
My position was and is: If I own one copy, it's fair to use it on both of my machines. If they happen to run simultaneously, which isnt't too often the case, who cares.
This new position translates as follows: Running two copies when only one of them is legally licensed is just as much of an offense as running one pirated copy. This again is pretty much the same as running two pirated copies, so why bother about forking over the money for one copy, when they incriminate you anyway?
These suckers are so damn greedy, it makes me sick.
PS: Personally, I don't use any Microsoft software. I do own some of it, siting unused on the shelf, but being controlled and treated like a criminal just isn't my cup of tea anymore.
The beef here is generally with licensing practices and how not only do these types of tactics supposedly not conform to fair use, but even then they're just inane.
If three people in my family want to use different parts of Office, I'm not going to buy three licenses. If Microsoft really thinks that anybody is going to buy more than one copy of Office, they should at LEAST make it so that when my mom is reading her email in Entourage, I can open a document in MS word--I can't. I'm going to have to resort to finding a serial (Surfer's Serials, try #macfiles on irc.macfiles.net, whoever it was that asked) once Office X gets out. I guess it gets released tomorrow, right?
Also, to those of you who are saying installing a copy of a $600 productivity suite from the richest software company in the world on more than one computer is piracy, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And believe you me, that's not a good thing to hear from somebody like myself.
<strong>Well I decided to do some detective work. I had the idea that it was probably a constantly open, possibly broadcasting port, so what better way to find itt than Network Utility? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Correct me if im wrong, but when you use any email program does it not find an available port to send information from? Just out of curiosity, could you try the same test using word, powerpoint, or excel and see if you get the same result, thanks.
Don't be surprised if you get burned when sitting so near the fire.
What everyone here ought to be doing is NOT using Office. Find and enforce alternatives. If someone asks why, simply inform them of Microsoft's practices. If they shrug their shoulders, then ask them if they will be shrugging their shoulders when it is their home or business that Microsoft wants additional thousands of dollars from.
I personally hope Microsoft finds a way to make it impossible to use their software in a pirated manner. Then people will insist on some real, affordable alternatives. This is already happening big time on the PC side and Mac is going to get left in the dust due to lax enforcement.
I know it sounds crazy, stupid and backwards. The real point is that in this day and age, office apps shouldn't cost what Microsoft charges. When people desire alternatives, they will appear, when they just pirate the standard they don't. This is true be it Mac or PC.
On the PC side there is Star Office, and 602ProSuite just to begin with, on the Mac there is.............
Ata minimum you all ought to demand Apple start doing something decent with Appleworks...
<strong>Next, JLL, I have to ask: have you ever seen student licensing prices? Most of them are just as much of a joke to a college kid as the regular retail price. Not only that, but what about elementary, junior high, or high school students that want to use this software? What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? I don't even know if Microsoft Office X has student licenses yet, but even if it does, that's still probably going to be a thousand dollars. For a few programs. Insane.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Since I don't live in the US I don't know the US student license pricing, but in Denmark a student license of Office is $95, and the requirement is that you have to go to school or have children in schools - any kid age 6 and above (or their parents) can buy a student license of Office in Denmark.
Anyone now actually able to confirm this one way or another based on actual experience.... I am especially interested in G4s joined by an Airport connection.
I usually only access the internet similtaneously from the 2 G4s, but I also occasionally use the connect to server function through the Go Finder menu Item..... When exactly will I run into problems with the same copy of office X on them both - with internet or local connection?
for the record, standard ports to have open are (IIRC):
20 & 21 FTP
23 SMTP (email)
80 http (web pages)
The best way to block off other ports is firewall software. If you feel leet, you may want to fool about with (lucky guess: ) iptables or something.
Check out imaclinux.net and look for iptables and or firewall tutorials. The gist of them apply to your Mac OS X box, though the files will be in different locations.
Comments
I suspect that if MS reduced the price by 1/2 but made the licence really secure like SCO most users would accept it. If they then charged a porting fee if a user wants to move to a new machine that would compensate MS because they would not know if it were to be gunueinly moved or just installed on a sceond machine at the same time. If they were really clever they could develop an un-installer which would generate a new activation code allowing the user to re-install on another macnine.
I will be very disturbed if I could not run my own software on either of my G4s.
Any ideas very gratefully accepted!
cheers
adam
<strong>Thanks for all of the thoughts, but short of the cracked code option (and Im not sure how that would go mapped from the same IP against my real copy), it seems like MS has got us stumped. I guess that we might have to wait and see what happens whenn people get it in their hands.
I will be very disturbed if I could not run my own software on either of my G4s.
Any ideas very gratefully accepted!
cheers
adam</strong><hr></blockquote>
I rather think MS lawyers will tell you it is not your own software that you have purchased it is their software. You have purchased a license to install it on at most two machines and run it on no more than one at a time.
Its not just MS - Apple are the same for OSX. Its just that Apple don't check.
If you have two machines and you can't afford two copies how is that different from having one machine and not being able to afford one copy ?
As for fair use MS claim they will let you keep it on more than one machine but just not use it one more than one machine. I agree not being able to open Excel on one machine and Word on another is a bit over the top but I guess its the same as not being able to buy just Word and Excel without PowerPoint (which I never use) and getting a discount.
Don't get me wrong I agree the stuff is outrageously overpriced. I just don't see how far you get with the argument that its overpriced therefore I don't have to pay for it.
I'm happy to be convinced otherwise :-)
Michael
<strong>
Student License ??</strong><hr></blockquote>
For college students only. Verrry helpful to high school students when they have M$ Office at school and need it at home...
It's scary to think that Kevin Browne said that MBU would have implemented Windows XP's activation "feature" in Office v.X if they had the time and manpower. I'll believe it when I read the original interview in German, but it's a daunting thought. The profit-maximizing policies of large corporations are starting to take the fun out of being a consumer.
Escher
<strong>Has anyone had luck blocking the broadcast port yet?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Gotta get Office v.X first. It's not shipping until Nov. 19. Note that I always pay for one copy of my applications and don't pirate software over the Internet.
Escher
Next, JLL, I have to ask: have you ever seen student licensing prices? Most of them are just as much of a joke to a college kid as the regular retail price. Not only that, but what about elementary, junior high, or high school students that want to use this software? What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? I don't even know if Microsoft Office X has student licenses yet, but even if it does, that's still probably going to be a thousand dollars. For a few programs. Insane.
What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? <hr></blockquote>
Yes.
Mind you I rather expect they are all using the copy Daddy got from the office to install on his machine at home under an extended license.
Isn't the MS email ( I have never used it) a free application ?
Michael
<strong>That's microsoft for you.What I would do: Buy your copy,And grab another cracked serial number from the web. </strong><hr></blockquote>
iwhat's a cracked serial number, if i may ask? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Companies really should just give away their software, that'll make life fun again.
<strong>
Isn't the MS email ( I have never used it) a free application ?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
They do make a free app, but the one in question is the bundled (and not seperately available) Microsoft Entourage. It has Tasks, a calendar, advanced email features, and it's wonderful.
<strong>
If you have two machines and you can't afford two copies how is that different from having one machine and not being able to afford one copy ?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow! I like that point pretty much.
My position was and is: If I own one copy, it's fair to use it on both of my machines. If they happen to run simultaneously, which isnt't too often the case, who cares.
This new position translates as follows: Running two copies when only one of them is legally licensed is just as much of an offense as running one pirated copy. This again is pretty much the same as running two pirated copies, so why bother about forking over the money for one copy, when they incriminate you anyway?
These suckers are so damn greedy, it makes me sick.
PS: Personally, I don't use any Microsoft software. I do own some of it, siting unused on the shelf, but being controlled and treated like a criminal just isn't my cup of tea anymore.
[ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: hacmac ]</p>
If three people in my family want to use different parts of Office, I'm not going to buy three licenses. If Microsoft really thinks that anybody is going to buy more than one copy of Office, they should at LEAST make it so that when my mom is reading her email in Entourage, I can open a document in MS word--I can't. I'm going to have to resort to finding a serial (Surfer's Serials, try #macfiles on irc.macfiles.net, whoever it was that asked) once Office X gets out. I guess it gets released tomorrow, right?
Also, to those of you who are saying installing a copy of a $600 productivity suite from the richest software company in the world on more than one computer is piracy, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And believe you me, that's not a good thing to hear from somebody like myself.
<strong>Well I decided to do some detective work. I had the idea that it was probably a constantly open, possibly broadcasting port, so what better way to find itt than Network Utility?
Correct me if im wrong, but when you use any email program does it not find an available port to send information from? Just out of curiosity, could you try the same test using word, powerpoint, or excel and see if you get the same result, thanks.
What everyone here ought to be doing is NOT using Office. Find and enforce alternatives. If someone asks why, simply inform them of Microsoft's practices. If they shrug their shoulders, then ask them if they will be shrugging their shoulders when it is their home or business that Microsoft wants additional thousands of dollars from.
I personally hope Microsoft finds a way to make it impossible to use their software in a pirated manner. Then people will insist on some real, affordable alternatives. This is already happening big time on the PC side and Mac is going to get left in the dust due to lax enforcement.
I know it sounds crazy, stupid and backwards. The real point is that in this day and age, office apps shouldn't cost what Microsoft charges. When people desire alternatives, they will appear, when they just pirate the standard they don't. This is true be it Mac or PC.
On the PC side there is Star Office, and 602ProSuite just to begin with, on the Mac there is.............
Ata minimum you all ought to demand Apple start doing something decent with Appleworks...
Nick
<strong>Next, JLL, I have to ask: have you ever seen student licensing prices? Most of them are just as much of a joke to a college kid as the regular retail price. Not only that, but what about elementary, junior high, or high school students that want to use this software? What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? I don't even know if Microsoft Office X has student licenses yet, but even if it does, that's still probably going to be a thousand dollars. For a few programs. Insane.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Since I don't live in the US I don't know the US student license pricing, but in Denmark a student license of Office is $95, and the requirement is that you have to go to school or have children in schools - any kid age 6 and above (or their parents) can buy a student license of Office in Denmark.
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: JLL ]</p>
I usually only access the internet similtaneously from the 2 G4s, but I also occasionally use the connect to server function through the Go Finder menu Item..... When exactly will I run into problems with the same copy of office X on them both - with internet or local connection?
20 & 21 FTP
23 SMTP (email)
80 http (web pages)
The best way to block off other ports is firewall software. If you feel leet, you may want to fool about with (lucky guess: ) iptables or something.
Check out imaclinux.net and look for iptables and or firewall tutorials. The gist of them apply to your Mac OS X box, though the files will be in different locations.