Road to Mac OS X Leopard: Safari 3.0



  • Reply 101 of 111
    Originally Posted by lundy View Post

    Look - anyone who is unaware of the double-tap didn't look at the Trackpad Preference Pane, the Help documentation, or any of the Mac online magazines.

    How do you expect Apple to "tell" people about these things if not in the Help section and in the System Preferences? Don't people browse through their Mac when they get it to see what all the menus are about?

    Plus, you do not *need* to know about the double-tap; Safari has a perfectly plain back arrow in its toolbar as well as a "Back" menu item as well as "Delete" and "command-left bracket" named as the shortcuts for "Back" in the Safari Help text.

    There are all sorts of guided tours and tutorials on the Apple website also.

    See that's exactly what I mean with inconsistent and contradicting argumentation. Apple people say ordinary computer users are inapt to grasp the meaning of a second mouse button that's right there in front of their face but DO expect people to dig in help files and fancy computer magazines that usually can be found right next to the Playboy and Hustler to find out how to simulate that non-existing second mouse button... this is totally absurd.

    I've used so many people's computers and in less than 1% literally ANY of the system preferences had been changed. Mostly Windows I admit, but some Macs too. What's not enabled by default will never be.

    Nice quote by G.B.Shaw in this context:

    \tThe reasonable man adapts himself to the world;

    \tthe unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.

    \tTherefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

    Most computer users are reasonable unfortunately
  • Reply 102 of 111
    lundylundy Posts: 4,466member
    You can either explain how Apple is supposed to tell people about double-tap in a way other than what I have provided, or move on to another topic.
  • Reply 103 of 111
    Of there isn't any other way, but you're missing my whole point. I just say it's not a consistent view on consumers to say

    (1) you're too dumb to grasp the meaning of two buttons; but

    (2) you're certainly smart enough to look up in Help and activate in SysPrefs an awkward way to simulate a second button and then not get confused by the two-button functionality.

    But you're right this doesn't lead anywhere so we might as well stop here.
  • Reply 104 of 111
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member
    i'm exhausted just reading this thread... lol
  • Reply 105 of 111
    kukukuku Posts: 254member
    considering that 2 button is not the right way anymore for today's multimedia standard...

    the Scroll wheel, and the click is now considered essential too. So isn't it a 3 wheel button?

    Oh wait, but web experiences's it 5 buttons, I mean the page foward and back are way important too.

    It's the classic functions issue. Depending on what you're doing, the more quick function keys the better, while other things that are just wasteful.

    As things continue to evolve, the more "quick buttons" are needed. The goal of apple is to have it both ways.

    Single button is a very good thing, especially when you've taught a couple of "intro to computers classes in your life time".

    Where a pro would have 8 buttons and still not be satisfied.
  • Reply 106 of 111
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

    MDI stands for multiple document interface and very much describes how Safari handles multiple documents within a single window. It's not quite the same MDI approach in Windows but the concept is exactly the same.

    Exposé is perfect for browsers since web pages normally offer sa many visual differences that they provide the most distinguishable Exposé experience. 'More windows' does not equate to 'slower' in Mac OS X. Mac OS X can handle more windows that you can shake a stick at. I agree, though, that Exposé will stutter when lots of windows are on the screen. However, if you're up to the point where windows are 'tiny thumbnails', tabbed-browsing won't save you there either since the tabs shrink to a point where they become hard to distinguish while some get pushed off into the chevron icon.

    Tabs are a good concept if you use them to group like web pages but fail if you want to use Exposé to rapidly find the web page you want since it'll be burried within the tab a Firefox or Safari window.

    I don't know why I bother explaining shouldn't be my business if people want to have suboptimal workflows where things are hidden and otherwise difficult to access directly.

    If you're still managing you windows so that you can 'see your desktop', it's not my problem considering Apple gives you the ability to wisk away windows so you get a clear view of your desktop (and in Leopard gives you the opportunity to have an empty space so you can see a clean desktop). Apple gives you everything you need for your window management...if you don't use it, too bad...people wanting a toolbar button to fuel an MDI approach to window management can continue to whine but they have to realise the problem was solved long ago.

    Right, as if Expose provides perfect window management. It's nowhere near as keyboard friendly as it could be, provides little sense of order (whereas tabs are linearly ordered by creation time), and doesn't work well when there are more than two windows that look the same at a glance. Expose, cmd-tab, `-tab, Dashboard, Minimize, Finder, Spotlight, the menu bar, the Dock and various other bits and pieces are not neat. They feel more like a stack of bandaids, each glued on to fix a specific leak (or many leaks at once) than a well integrated system for doing stuff that matters. I have no doubt I'll use and like Spaces. Still, it's one more thing making the whole more complex. At some point they should just roll up their sleeves, dump everything and redo it orthogonally.

    Both Expose and tabs are good. If I had to choose only one, for web browsing it'd be tabs for sure.
  • Reply 107 of 111
    Originally Posted by kaiwai View Post

    I'm running it right now, 5 tabs, and the total memory consumed is 86MB (according to the system monitor).

    Just out of curisosity - what are your system specifications - Intel or PowerPC Mac? what version of MacOS X? have you lodged a bug report?

    It may just be due to different browser usage.

    I have a problem as well with creeping consumption of both real and virtual memory. Due I believe to uncleared cachesfrom massive bouts of browsing and downloading of images. I'm hooked on Flickr and Wikipedia. :-)
  • Reply 108 of 111
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Originally Posted by lundy View Post

    You don't need to manually turn stuff off. The Mach kernel will page it out if it is not used and the memory is needed, and if you don't use it, it won't be paged back in. The idea of keeping memory "free" is a false one - memory that is purchased should be used, not kept free, and that is what OS X does.

    Assuming you have the spare memory. If it's paged out, it noticeably slows down the system when something has to be paged in. I turn Dashboard off because it's pointless for me and I don't want to accidentally activate it, it noticeably slows down my system.


    Spotlight does nothing unless you run a search. Perhaps you are referring to the metadata server and metadata worker processes - they are using exactly 0.0% to 0.1% CPU on my machine right now.

    It's not running all the time, but it does slow the system down when copying, moving or saving files.

    Originally Posted by syklee26 View Post

    is the beta version which can be downloaded right now essentially same as what will be included in Leopard?

    Which makes me wonder if Safari 3 will ever become a "regular" program on Tiger or if we're supposed to buy Leopard.

    Originally Posted by Gee4orce View Post

    I have a new tab button in my Safari toolbar. I never use it. Maybe you can have mine ?

    So you have to buy Leopard to get the option?
  • Reply 109 of 111
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Originally Posted by smack416 View Post

    I find it's six and one half dozen the other. Depending on what you have open in each browser, RAM usage becomes an issue.

    For example, right now I'm at:

    Safari - 536.50 MB of RAM

    Firefox - 398.65 MB of RAM

    However, the real issue is:

    Safari - 12% CPU

    Firefox - 50% CPU

    Firefox in this state is basically unusable. Bit of a pain, for sure. Safari still snappy.

    Of course, this is all Flash's fault, as near as I can tell. Would be nice to turn Flash off in Firefox ala Camino.

    I've never seen Firefox take 50% indefinitely. I'm currently using Safari because the current Firefox eventually stops working right until it's restarted.

    So you don't like the Flashblock extension for Firefox?

    Originally Posted by saschke View Post

    no. i want to be able to open a new tab with one mouse click or a double-click. right now i have four options: 1. FILE-> NEW TAB, 2. right click on tabbar, select "New Tab", 3. CMD+T, 4. Mouse Gesture

    a simple "PLUS"-symbol or the double-click ability would solve this problem. this is stubborn.

    Add middle clicking a link or middle clicking a bookmark. Clicking the scroll wheel is the same as a middle click.
  • Reply 110 of 111
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

    The article should also mention that the beta of Safari for Windows was a disaster. A lot of people tried it out (download of the beta was linked on Apple's home page) and it was so unstable, unsecure and for a lot of people unusable (no text on the ui or on webpages) that it destroyed the modern legend, Apple software would be much better than any other one. This arrogant public beta was maybe the biggest mistake in the development/marketing of Safari imo.

    The first release was bad. Safari 3 beta for Mac wasn't very good either. After a few days, Apple fixed most of the problems. It does seem like it was rushed. The original "beta" just had an alpha quality air about it.

    Originally Posted by brianus View Post

    Uh. This is one of the main new touted features of Safari 3.. and you need to access it with a keyboard shortcut? It's ridiculous. Every other browser has a 'new tab' button. In Safari, you can close, drag, rearrange, and even create new windows from tabs using the mouse, but you can't create them with it. That simply makes no sense at all.

    Tabbing has been around longer, some people say it's in Safari 1, but I know Safari 2 had it. Safari 3 tabbing doesn't seem to add much.
  • Reply 111 of 111
    Safari has had tabbed browsing sinse version 1.1
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