Nice to see Apples reprehensible greed being given the short shrift it deserves.
The only way this attitude makes sense to me. Is that people are upset Apple is limiting a great phone to service providers that many people don't want to subscribe to. You have no faith that your mobile phone company will be able to offer that same experience. So you want the government to step in and force Apple to change its business model and offer its phone to companies who have done nothing to help it come about. Otherwise why would you care.
Quote:
By far the largest segment of the market is pre-paid. Contracts are on the wane. Why on earth does Apple think it can maximise profits by catering to the smallest market segment which is shrinking
I guess they are sitting on 20 billion in cash and don't know what they are doing.
I guess they are sitting on 24 billion in cash and don't know what they are doing.
I thought it was $15B. But that argument is still irrelevant. Microsoft sits on a pile of cash three times that, and Apple fans seem to say, very often, that Microsoft doesn't know what they are doing. I see a logical disconnect here, the size of the pile of cash isn't necessarily causative or correlative.
And not specific to you Teno, the tone I read from Apple fans grousing about Microsoft's Office pricing as "greedy", but then, greed is good for Apple on whatever they sell. Or that Apple is OK to charge whatever they want for their iPod product, but for the labels to want to raise their wholesale pricing on items that cost a very tiny fraction of the iPod that it goes on, well, that's just greedy. So I see an almost consistent double standard with respect to Apple by too many of its fans.
Not yet... but I didn't come up with this strategy, the head of a huge multinational company did. There might be a reason that Jobs is such a major player in the business world (hint: he thinks up new ways of doing things that might not be conventional).
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui
The iPhone is not that great - IMO - that it will cause a sea change in the European market such that contracts come back into fashion.
Nothing to worry about then, it will take care of it's self
Apple have a responcibility to thier shareholders to make as much money as possible.
It seesm you are trying to argue that they should not be greedy (i.e. make money) and then on the other hand say the shareholders should question the approach. The shareholders will be very happy with the money Apple are making at the moment.
They are a business and not a charity here to give the rest of us cheap iPhones.
If you can't afford an iPhone and it's service plan then don't buy one, simple.
I assure you I can easily afford an iPhone, however, I have no intention of getting one while Apple continues to pursue their current strategy.
The greed I was referring to relates to Apple wanting a share of the phone network providers revenue. Greed is an aspiration or desire for something, it does not automatically equate with obtaining that which is desired.
While Apple shareholders may well be happy with the profit being generated by the iPhone, hardly any of that profit has come from Europe as it has only just gone on sale. I refer you to my other post where I detailed the prevalence of pre-paid phones in the European market. Can you explain to me how Apple will be able to maximise profits by only catering to the smallest segment of the market?
It seems to me that Apples approach is similar to that of British Airways. Some years ago I remember seeing a TV item where an analyst was explaining how BA was concentrating on Business Class customers - because they were the most profitable - and had expressed the desire to become a Business Class only airline. This was some years ago and notably, BA has not achieved their aim.
Apple seems to me to have the same attitude with the iPhone. As with BA, I think they will find there are only so many 'mugs' to go around. While BA and other airlines may consider the profits from Business Class to be the cream, the bread and butter is generated back in cattle class.
I thought it was $15B. But that argument is still irrelevant. Microsoft sits on a pile of cash three times that, and Apple fans seem to say, very often, that Microsoft doesn't know what they are doing. I see a logical disconnect here, the size of the pile of cash isn't necessarily causative or correlative.
I don't participate in much of the MS bashing. Any company sitting on billions in cash and has little debt is obviously doing something right. I don't like or buy MS products. But I also would acknowledge they did not grow so large from not knowing what they are doing.
Quote:
Microsoft's Office pricing as "greedy", but then, greed is good for Apple on whatever they sell.
They use two entirely different business models. What I don't like about MS business model is that they create a competing service to nearly everything then attempt to use their products to lock you into their proprietary services.
Its true in the US if Apple had offered the iPhone to every mobile service Apple would have little control over the end experience or pricing. I have a difficult time believing the mobile services are much different in Europe.
Quote:
The greed I was referring to relates to Apple wanting a share of the phone network providers revenue. Greed is an aspiration or desire for something, it does not automatically equate with obtaining that which is desired.
This could be looked at as greed. But every company attempts to set deals that will maximize its own profitability. Also Apple will continue to update the OS and software at no additional cost to the user.
What most of you keep forgetting (save for a select few) is that all your "wisdom" and "smartitude" is worthless with a company like Apple.
You can not, and will not, predict what they will do, unless they allow you to.
Apple does not follow trends, Apple sets them. Apple does not look at the marketplace and ask how it can conform to the status quo, Apple steps past it, and others follow.
As its been said before, Apple's iPhone is already changing the game. The rules are being re-written, get with the program or get out.
Ooooh! Getting a little bit sanctimonious are we? Well listen up Mr shareholder, I have been buying Apple products since the SE. But at the moment, I have no current intentions to purchase any of Apples current products. I won't be buying an iPhone and the iMac issues concern me enough I won't be buying one soon. Panther is window dressing. I would like to upgrade my current iPod but since Apple won't provide a Touch with HD capacity, I won't be buying an iPod either.
So Mr shareholder, when a serial purchaser of Apple products points out that the current offerings and business strategy fall short of tempting me to part with my money, you 'should' take notice, because for every one of 'me' voicing my opinions here, there are likely many more who share my views but who are not posting them here.
Telling potential customers to 'get out' - is that how you made your millions?
You should use this as your signature, right along with a list of all the other current crappy Apple products you refuse to buy from big, bad, greedy Apple, Inc.
Just so we're clear, you've been supporting the horrible Apple and their pattern of American corporate greed as long as they made products you want? Is it only when they fail to meet your approval that they become evil? The greed would be okay if they made a Touch with a hard drive? Or an iMac once they fix the hardware glitch?
You should hire the entire Apple, Inc. organization to build custom consumer electronics and operating systems just for you, and pay them a few hundred dollars (or whatever you feel is fair). Then you could be a happier person, and the rest of us would be saved from their greed.
You should use this as your signature, right along with a list of all the other current crappy Apple products you refuse to buy from big, bad, greedy Apple, Inc.
Just so we're clear, you've been supporting the horrible Apple and their pattern of American corporate greed as long as they made products you want? Is it only when they fail to meet your approval that they become evil? The greed would be okay if they made a Touch with a hard drive? Or an iMac once they fix the hardware glitch?
You should hire the entire Apple, Inc. organization to build custom consumer electronics and operating systems just for you, and pay them a few hundred dollars (or whatever you feel is fair). Then you could be a happier person, and the rest of us would be saved from their greed.
I think you're being pretty bizarre. Most people just say Apple is take it or leave it, and you're giving him crap in a melodramatic way for saying he's going to leave it.
So much fuss over a company whose goal it is to have 1 percent of the market. People act like the iPhone is the only phone available. If you don't like the terms simply get a different phone!!!! It would be different if Apple controlled 70 or 80 percent of the market since that would put an undue burden on consumers. But I mean Apple makes 1 phone!!!! Europeans are just to socialist for Americas to understand the way things are done there. Maybe it would be better if Apple just didn't sell the phone in Europe. OR they could unlock it and charge about 1200 Euros for it. I am not real knowledgeable about about landlines in western Europe but I know that in eastern Europe most people use cell phones because landlines are hard to get and very expensive. Maybe a westerner could clue us in on landlines in Western Europe. I know that is one reason cell systems are so good in the East- when I was in Russia my USA based phone worked great everywhere even in the Moscow Metro tubes.
Anywho this just sounds like company jealousy and wayyyyyyyyyyy to much government regulation to me and probably to most Americas - a country where we would rather the government let us decide on how to live and what to buy than have terms dictated to us by some government agency. You know the USA land of the free lol and Americas complain about paying taxes I guess that is because most have no idea what it is like to have a government suck huge amounts of taxes from their paycheck to support a double money sucking government system like the the EU is - pay once from your own country and once for the Quasi government called the EU. You can have things all nice an even but the cost is outrageous - by the way whats the cost of gasoline and a Big Mac these days in Europe lol
I assure you I can easily afford an iPhone, however, I have no intention of getting one while Apple continues to pursue their current strategy.
The greed I was referring to relates to Apple wanting a share of the phone network providers revenue. Greed is an aspiration or desire for something, it does not automatically equate with obtaining that which is desired.
Apple seems to me to have the same attitude with the iPhone. As with BA, I think they will find there are only so many 'mugs' to go around. While BA and other airlines may consider the profits from Business Class to be the cream, the bread and butter is generated back in cattle class.
"Greed" by definition is an excessive desire to acumulate wealth or material gain beyond what one needs.
What one needs is not up to you to determine, I am glad to say. The term is entirely subjective, and smacks of jealousy on your part.
Allow me to remind you that you have a choice: Don't buy one. You also have a second choice: give half your money to charity, unless you're greedy?
Ooooh! Getting a little bit sanctimonious are we? Well listen up Mr shareholder, I have been buying Apple products since the SE. But at the moment, I have no current intentions to purchase any of Apples current products. I won't be buying an iPhone and the iMac issues concern me enough I won't be buying one soon. Panther is window dressing. I would like to upgrade my current iPod but since Apple won't provide a Touch with HD capacity, I won't be buying an iPod either.
So Mr shareholder, when a serial purchaser of Apple products points out that the current offerings and business strategy fall short of tempting me to part with my money, you 'should' take notice, because for every one of 'me' voicing my opinions here, there are likely many more who share my views but who are not posting them here.
Telling potential customers to 'get out' - is that how you made your millions?
I make my money by not listening to small-minded and unrealistic reasoning from the mouths of those who feel that their personal brand-loyatly dictates that a company must kiss their ass for life. Your thinking is simply not in line with the natural order of things. Reality.
More and more you sound like a mid 40's Apple using hard-core koolaid drinker who suddenly does not like the fact that Apple, who has always marched to their own beat, is continuing to do so, and finally reaping the rewards of ten years of brutal effort and hard work.
What I take notice of is your entitlement, and how you think Apple "owes" you something. Want more space than an iPod touch provides? Buy a Zune.
Don't like iMacs? Scared they have issues you'll be stuck with? Buy a Dell.
Seriously. Vote with your wallet. I do, and so does the rest of the marketplace, and as long as we all do, Apple's market share will grow exponentially.
And if you really think it "Window Dressing", you were never a Mac user to begin with.
it seems t-mobile germany will start selling an unlocked sim-lock free iphone verison starting tomorrow!!!
i didn't think that it's gonna happen, but the rumor mill is spinning wild tonight in europe, especially germany and france!!!
i was completely wrong with my prior post.... sorry for misjudging the legal situation!!!!
I hope they don't. This is socialistic government interference at its absolute worst. I hope Jobs pulls the plug on all of Germany and tells them to get bent.
vodafone and debitel intervened... not the german state attorney or the EU....
let's see what t-mobile does, i still think they will get a court order against the 1st court order... let's see... this is totally new... since there have been exclusive deals with certain providers all over the place... this will also be a precedence for other industries and product categories...
I don't understand what the controversy is. Apple knew coming in that only selling locked cell phones is illegal in Europe. It's not about the iPhone itself, it's about the consumers having the right not to be locked into a specific service provider.
I wonder if those crying foul over this decision think that usury laws are just anti-competitive too?
its just a different business model, get over it. let the free market do its thing. this is exactly why i never want the UK to get more involved with the EU. its like stepping backwards in time
I hope they don't. This is socialistic government interference at its absolute worst. I hope Jobs pulls the plug on all of Germany and tells them to get bent.
Comments
How many international corporations have you launched from a garage? I know I haven't, but I don't think that's a good argument either.
It sounds to me that you're just along for the ride as a stock holder, not having actually done that yourself.
I've launched two small businesses from my garage, and neither is anything near the level of an Apple.
However, I am capable of recognizing my own limitations as well as when others are smarter or more talented than I am.
Many of you, it appears, are not, becasue you all seem to know what Apple needs to do to be better, and yet none of you is competing with them.
Armchair CEOs.
Nice to see Apples reprehensible greed being given the short shrift it deserves.
The only way this attitude makes sense to me. Is that people are upset Apple is limiting a great phone to service providers that many people don't want to subscribe to. You have no faith that your mobile phone company will be able to offer that same experience. So you want the government to step in and force Apple to change its business model and offer its phone to companies who have done nothing to help it come about. Otherwise why would you care.
By far the largest segment of the market is pre-paid. Contracts are on the wane. Why on earth does Apple think it can maximise profits by catering to the smallest market segment which is shrinking
I guess they are sitting on 20 billion in cash and don't know what they are doing.
I guess they are sitting on 24 billion in cash and don't know what they are doing.
Trying to find a company as good as themselves to invest in?
Saving up to buy a Cellular Network?
Sattelites?
oh, the possibilities...
I guess they are sitting on 24 billion in cash and don't know what they are doing.
I thought it was $15B. But that argument is still irrelevant. Microsoft sits on a pile of cash three times that, and Apple fans seem to say, very often, that Microsoft doesn't know what they are doing. I see a logical disconnect here, the size of the pile of cash isn't necessarily causative or correlative.
And not specific to you Teno, the tone I read from Apple fans grousing about Microsoft's Office pricing as "greedy", but then, greed is good for Apple on whatever they sell. Or that Apple is OK to charge whatever they want for their iPod product, but for the labels to want to raise their wholesale pricing on items that cost a very tiny fraction of the iPod that it goes on, well, that's just greedy. So I see an almost consistent double standard with respect to Apple by too many of its fans.
That's absurd. Do you fit that description?
Not yet... but I didn't come up with this strategy, the head of a huge multinational company did. There might be a reason that Jobs is such a major player in the business world (hint: he thinks up new ways of doing things that might not be conventional).
The iPhone is not that great - IMO - that it will cause a sea change in the European market such that contracts come back into fashion.
Nothing to worry about then, it will take care of it's self
Apple have a responcibility to thier shareholders to make as much money as possible.
It seesm you are trying to argue that they should not be greedy (i.e. make money) and then on the other hand say the shareholders should question the approach. The shareholders will be very happy with the money Apple are making at the moment.
They are a business and not a charity here to give the rest of us cheap iPhones.
If you can't afford an iPhone and it's service plan then don't buy one, simple.
I assure you I can easily afford an iPhone, however, I have no intention of getting one while Apple continues to pursue their current strategy.
The greed I was referring to relates to Apple wanting a share of the phone network providers revenue. Greed is an aspiration or desire for something, it does not automatically equate with obtaining that which is desired.
While Apple shareholders may well be happy with the profit being generated by the iPhone, hardly any of that profit has come from Europe as it has only just gone on sale. I refer you to my other post where I detailed the prevalence of pre-paid phones in the European market. Can you explain to me how Apple will be able to maximise profits by only catering to the smallest segment of the market?
It seems to me that Apples approach is similar to that of British Airways. Some years ago I remember seeing a TV item where an analyst was explaining how BA was concentrating on Business Class customers - because they were the most profitable - and had expressed the desire to become a Business Class only airline. This was some years ago and notably, BA has not achieved their aim.
Apple seems to me to have the same attitude with the iPhone. As with BA, I think they will find there are only so many 'mugs' to go around. While BA and other airlines may consider the profits from Business Class to be the cream, the bread and butter is generated back in cattle class.
I thought it was $15B. But that argument is still irrelevant. Microsoft sits on a pile of cash three times that, and Apple fans seem to say, very often, that Microsoft doesn't know what they are doing. I see a logical disconnect here, the size of the pile of cash isn't necessarily causative or correlative.
I don't participate in much of the MS bashing. Any company sitting on billions in cash and has little debt is obviously doing something right. I don't like or buy MS products. But I also would acknowledge they did not grow so large from not knowing what they are doing.
Microsoft's Office pricing as "greedy", but then, greed is good for Apple on whatever they sell.
They use two entirely different business models. What I don't like about MS business model is that they create a competing service to nearly everything then attempt to use their products to lock you into their proprietary services.
Its true in the US if Apple had offered the iPhone to every mobile service Apple would have little control over the end experience or pricing. I have a difficult time believing the mobile services are much different in Europe.
The greed I was referring to relates to Apple wanting a share of the phone network providers revenue. Greed is an aspiration or desire for something, it does not automatically equate with obtaining that which is desired.
This could be looked at as greed. But every company attempts to set deals that will maximize its own profitability. Also Apple will continue to update the OS and software at no additional cost to the user.
What most of you keep forgetting (save for a select few) is that all your "wisdom" and "smartitude" is worthless with a company like Apple.
You can not, and will not, predict what they will do, unless they allow you to.
Apple does not follow trends, Apple sets them. Apple does not look at the marketplace and ask how it can conform to the status quo, Apple steps past it, and others follow.
As its been said before, Apple's iPhone is already changing the game. The rules are being re-written, get with the program or get out.
Ooooh! Getting a little bit sanctimonious are we? Well listen up Mr shareholder, I have been buying Apple products since the SE. But at the moment, I have no current intentions to purchase any of Apples current products. I won't be buying an iPhone and the iMac issues concern me enough I won't be buying one soon. Panther is window dressing. I would like to upgrade my current iPod but since Apple won't provide a Touch with HD capacity, I won't be buying an iPod either.
So Mr shareholder, when a serial purchaser of Apple products points out that the current offerings and business strategy fall short of tempting me to part with my money, you 'should' take notice, because for every one of 'me' voicing my opinions here, there are likely many more who share my views but who are not posting them here.
Telling potential customers to 'get out' - is that how you made your millions?
Panther is window dressing.
You should use this as your signature, right along with a list of all the other current crappy Apple products you refuse to buy from big, bad, greedy Apple, Inc.
Just so we're clear, you've been supporting the horrible Apple and their pattern of American corporate greed as long as they made products you want? Is it only when they fail to meet your approval that they become evil? The greed would be okay if they made a Touch with a hard drive? Or an iMac once they fix the hardware glitch?
You should hire the entire Apple, Inc. organization to build custom consumer electronics and operating systems just for you, and pay them a few hundred dollars (or whatever you feel is fair). Then you could be a happier person, and the rest of us would be saved from their greed.
You should use this as your signature, right along with a list of all the other current crappy Apple products you refuse to buy from big, bad, greedy Apple, Inc.
Just so we're clear, you've been supporting the horrible Apple and their pattern of American corporate greed as long as they made products you want? Is it only when they fail to meet your approval that they become evil? The greed would be okay if they made a Touch with a hard drive? Or an iMac once they fix the hardware glitch?
You should hire the entire Apple, Inc. organization to build custom consumer electronics and operating systems just for you, and pay them a few hundred dollars (or whatever you feel is fair). Then you could be a happier person, and the rest of us would be saved from their greed.
I think you're being pretty bizarre. Most people just say Apple is take it or leave it, and you're giving him crap in a melodramatic way for saying he's going to leave it.
Anywho this just sounds like company jealousy and wayyyyyyyyyyy to much government regulation to me and probably to most Americas - a country where we would rather the government let us decide on how to live and what to buy than have terms dictated to us by some government agency. You know the USA land of the free lol and Americas complain about paying taxes I guess that is because most have no idea what it is like to have a government suck huge amounts of taxes from their paycheck to support a double money sucking government system like the the EU is - pay once from your own country and once for the Quasi government called the EU. You can have things all nice an even but the cost is outrageous - by the way whats the cost of gasoline and a Big Mac these days in Europe lol
I'm an Apple shareholder, and have no real problem with Apple making money off of the iPhone.
Too much of this attitude going around, that because a business model is making money Apple is doing the right thing.
If Apple started selling nicely designed cigarettes, I'm sure they'd make a packet [sic], but it wouldn't be right.
i didn't think that it's gonna happen, but the rumor mill is spinning wild tonight in europe, especially germany and france!!!
i was completely wrong with my prior post.... sorry for misjudging the legal situation!!!!
I assure you I can easily afford an iPhone, however, I have no intention of getting one while Apple continues to pursue their current strategy.
The greed I was referring to relates to Apple wanting a share of the phone network providers revenue. Greed is an aspiration or desire for something, it does not automatically equate with obtaining that which is desired.
Apple seems to me to have the same attitude with the iPhone. As with BA, I think they will find there are only so many 'mugs' to go around. While BA and other airlines may consider the profits from Business Class to be the cream, the bread and butter is generated back in cattle class.
"Greed" by definition is an excessive desire to acumulate wealth or material gain beyond what one needs.
What one needs is not up to you to determine, I am glad to say. The term is entirely subjective, and smacks of jealousy on your part.
Allow me to remind you that you have a choice: Don't buy one. You also have a second choice: give half your money to charity, unless you're greedy?
Ooooh! Getting a little bit sanctimonious are we? Well listen up Mr shareholder, I have been buying Apple products since the SE. But at the moment, I have no current intentions to purchase any of Apples current products. I won't be buying an iPhone and the iMac issues concern me enough I won't be buying one soon. Panther is window dressing. I would like to upgrade my current iPod but since Apple won't provide a Touch with HD capacity, I won't be buying an iPod either.
So Mr shareholder, when a serial purchaser of Apple products points out that the current offerings and business strategy fall short of tempting me to part with my money, you 'should' take notice, because for every one of 'me' voicing my opinions here, there are likely many more who share my views but who are not posting them here.
Telling potential customers to 'get out' - is that how you made your millions?
I make my money by not listening to small-minded and unrealistic reasoning from the mouths of those who feel that their personal brand-loyatly dictates that a company must kiss their ass for life. Your thinking is simply not in line with the natural order of things. Reality.
More and more you sound like a mid 40's Apple using hard-core koolaid drinker who suddenly does not like the fact that Apple, who has always marched to their own beat, is continuing to do so, and finally reaping the rewards of ten years of brutal effort and hard work.
What I take notice of is your entitlement, and how you think Apple "owes" you something. Want more space than an iPod touch provides? Buy a Zune.
Don't like iMacs? Scared they have issues you'll be stuck with? Buy a Dell.
Seriously. Vote with your wallet. I do, and so does the rest of the marketplace, and as long as we all do, Apple's market share will grow exponentially.
And if you really think it "Window Dressing", you were never a Mac user to begin with.
it seems t-mobile germany will start selling an unlocked sim-lock free iphone verison starting tomorrow!!!
i didn't think that it's gonna happen, but the rumor mill is spinning wild tonight in europe, especially germany and france!!!
i was completely wrong with my prior post.... sorry for misjudging the legal situation!!!!
I hope they don't. This is socialistic government interference at its absolute worst. I hope Jobs pulls the plug on all of Germany and tells them to get bent.
vodafone and debitel intervened... not the german state attorney or the EU....
let's see what t-mobile does, i still think they will get a court order against the 1st court order... let's see... this is totally new... since there have been exclusive deals with certain providers all over the place... this will also be a precedence for other industries and product categories...
I wonder if those crying foul over this decision think that usury laws are just anti-competitive too?
I hope they don't. This is socialistic government interference at its absolute worst. I hope Jobs pulls the plug on all of Germany and tells them to get bent.
totally agree