Apple to halt Boot Camp access for non-Leopard users

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 35
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post


    The question is, why does Apple have to disable access to the Boot Camp application?



    1) It works just fine.



    2) Any systems that require newer drivers than the Tiger Boot Camp beta provides will ship with leopard anyway.



    3) Disabling access will piss off people who CANNOT upgrade to leopard yet for one reason or another. Yes, we are out there. Yes, we are running software that still has issues under Leopard.



    Wouldn't it be easier to say "Boot Camp under Tiger is no longer supported, but you may continue to use it at your own risk." ?



    Why is Apple becoming customer-hostile in this manner? They're actually going through *extra trouble* to break boot camp on Tiger. All they have to do to be a good citizen with regards to this is stop offering the download and tell people that support isn't available. That should be the end of it.



    Sigh. Apple seems to find new ways to piss people off on a constant basis these days.



    Look, Apple pulled no punches here, they said from day one that this is strictly beta, they gave it a long beta process to make absolutly sure that it was ready for prime time, and the only reason the public beta was made public so far ahead was because of a screachingly loud level of demand from the community who was drooling over the thought of dual booting OSX and Windows...



    From day one, Apple has said that "this is a 10.5 feature that we will give you early...but if you dont buy 10.5 it goes away because it isnt a 10.4 feature!" was anyone not clear on that from the outset?
  • Reply 22 of 35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    ...and the only reason the public beta was made public so far ahead was because of a screachingly loud level of demand from the community who was drooling over the thought of dual booting OSX and Windows...



    I suspect the length of the beta was more due to the delay of Leopard than because of demand. Boot Camp was released shortly after the community got Windows to work with EFI and the beta would have ended about six months ago had Leopard been released on schedule.
  • Reply 23 of 35
    If only they "beta" tested the rest of the leopard features on tiger...
  • Reply 24 of 35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    Bootcamp was just a boot loader and collection of drivers that are freely available (intel 965 chipset, ati/nvidia GPU, Raid/SATA) so why cant the affected users, or all Intel tiger users for that matter, just port a F/OSS *NIX bootloader to work with OSX and drop in the drivers ala carte?



    OSX hackers have done the same sorts of things to make OSX work on beige boxes, now they just need to mirror their efforts on the mac and problem solved...





    Bootcamp aint that special folks.



    It's already done.



    It's called GRUB 2.0



    GNU Grand Unified Bootloader 2.0.



    http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub-2-faq.en.html



    Quote:

    2. What is the status of GRUB 2?



    It is usable, but we are still making incompatible changes from time to time. Stabilizing the features is planned in November, 2006. It is working on PC, OpenFirmware-based PowerPC machines (PowerMac and Pegasos) and EFI-based PC (IntelMac), and being ported to RiscOS/ARM and UltraSparc. For more information, please look at the wiki.



    It's the bootloader I use and have used for the past 2 years (GRUB 1.x -> GRUB 2.0) on Debian Sid Linux.



    Linux has both LILO and GRUB for bootloaders like most of the *nix world.
  • Reply 25 of 35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    From day one, Apple has said that "this is a 10.5 feature that we will give you early...but if you dont buy 10.5 it goes away because it isnt a 10.4 feature!" was anyone not clear on that from the outset?



    They didn't HAVE to turn it off, though.



    If I recall, X11 was supposed to be a Panther feature, but they released a preview test version for Jaguar. It didn't expire; you just couldn't download it anymore once Panther was released.



    They should have done the same for Boot Camp and avoided all this bad press and greedy attitude.
  • Reply 26 of 35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post


    They should have done the same for Boot Camp and avoided all this bad press and greedy attitude.



    I'm afraid I have to disagree that this was done out of greed. If they gave us all of Leopard's features for free, then we'd never upgrade and Apple would lose money. They're a business after all. If they'd released the beta without advance warning that its functionality would fade prior to Leopard, then I'd say that was sneaky. I installed Boot Camp on my MacBook Pro knowing I'd have to upgrade to Leopard someday if I wanted to use the tool in the future.



    No, on the contrary, they gave me a feature intended for an upgrade release and allowed me to use it (even if just for a short time) without paying for the upgrade.
  • Reply 27 of 35
    satchmosatchmo Posts: 2,699member
    Now that's it's no longer 'beta' but rather a part of Leopard, does that mean Apple will now support and troubleshoot Windows issues and conflicts?

    Seems like a logistical nightmare. They should instead just continue calling it Beta software and simply just provide upgrades for Leopard onwards.
  • Reply 28 of 35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post


    The question is, why does Apple have to disable access to the Boot Camp application?



    1) It works just fine.



    2) Any systems that require newer drivers than the Tiger Boot Camp beta provides will ship with leopard anyway.



    3) Disabling access will piss off people who CANNOT upgrade to leopard yet for one reason or another. Yes, we are out there. Yes, we are running software that still has issues under Leopard.



    Wouldn't it be easier to say "Boot Camp under Tiger is no longer supported, but you may continue to use it at your own risk." ?



    Why is Apple becoming customer-hostile in this manner? They're actually going through *extra trouble* to break boot camp on Tiger. All they have to do to be a good citizen with regards to this is stop offering the download and tell people that support isn't available. That should be the end of it.



    Sigh. Apple seems to find new ways to piss people off on a constant basis these days.



    Yep. Even worse for Classic users. They never said Classic was a beta. They never said they would remove it from the OS. If you went onto Apple's discussion groups, even after pre-orders were being accepted for Leopard, no one could say if Classic was in Leopard - it wasn't ALLOWED. When someone brought up the fact that someone saw a dialog box that said Classic wasn't supported, people said it was a "rumor" and that features could change and it was unknown if Classic was in Leopard on PPC machines. The features listed on Apple's web site did not mention Classic... but they did not mention Rosetta either. And if you weren't sure, surely you could take solace in the fact that at the Apple Store the description of Leopard says "works with the software and accessories you have", so if you were using Classic software on Tiger than surely you would be able to continue to run them under Leopard. What a liar the Apple store is.
  • Reply 29 of 35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jpellino View Post


    At the local edu update, they made a point of telling everyone that once Leopard ships, Boot Camp Beta was dead - no license - no authorized usage, and that Boot Camp 1.0 was a Leopard install only. Sounds like this wasn't said as loudly or often as needed to reach everyone.





    The "leopard install only" version is Boot Camp 2.0 NOT 1.0
  • Reply 30 of 35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    And the users of the Mac did go forth and purchase Parallels, and it was good.



    VMWare Fusion is a better and more reliable solution, IMO.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by satchmo View Post


    Now that's it's no longer 'beta' but rather a part of Leopard, does that mean Apple will now support and troubleshoot Windows issues and conflicts?

    Seems like a logistical nightmare. They should instead just continue calling it Beta software and simply just provide upgrades for Leopard onwards.



    I doubt Apple will ever offer support and troubleshooting for Windows.
  • Reply 31 of 35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djames42 View Post




    Windows will still run just fine and your existing Boot Camp partition will be unaffected. You will however not be able to create a driver CD, nor will you be able to modify your Boot Camp partition. You can delete the partition using Disk Utility (or recreate the partition for use with the Mac), but you will not be able to rejoin the space utilised by the Windows partition to your existing Mac partition (there are other tools out there that can do this).



    I thought all the partitioning tasks that Boot Camp makes easy for you could be done with native tools in Terminal. (resizing, etc.) In other words, you don't need to obtain anything 3rd party



    Steve
  • Reply 32 of 35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    Bootcamp was just a boot loader and collection of drivers that are freely available (intel 965 chipset, ati/nvidia GPU, Raid/SATA) so why cant the affected users, or all Intel tiger users for that matter, just port a F/OSS *NIX bootloader to work with OSX and drop in the drivers ala carte?



    OSX hackers have done the same sorts of things to make OSX work on beige boxes, now they just need to mirror their efforts on the mac and problem solved...



    Bootcamp aint that special folks.



    Boot Camp is not a boot loader.



    It's a tool to help you (it's not required though) partition your drive, and a tool to make a driver disk. Booting to Windows has been a function any Intel Mac could do natively on or after April 2006 (when an EFI update came out).



    Steve
  • Reply 33 of 35
    Maybe they'll have the decency to fix Leopard before further hampering their so-called 'valuable' customers.
  • Reply 34 of 35
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,202moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demenas View Post


    I thought all the partitioning tasks that Boot Camp makes easy for you could be done with native tools in Terminal. (resizing, etc.) In other words, you don't need to obtain anything 3rd party



    Yeah, you just use some diskutil functions that aren't in Disk Utility:



    http://developer.apple.com/documenta...iskutil.8.html



    merge partitions you'd use to get rid of the Windows partition. The thing about drive manipulation in the command line though is that you can easily get it wrong.



    What I wonder about the article is why would they even mention New Year when Bootcamp has already expired? Maybe they've put a conservative time limit on the firmware that allows Windows to boot. If so, that would make them look very bad indeed.



    The reason they do this of course is to keep people upgrading and paying them money and so Steve Jobs can stand on stage all smug and announce that the majority of mac users are either on 10.3 or 10.4 as if it's a great achievement and no other manufacturer has done anything like it. The reason being that hardly anything works if you stay on older versions. I'm on 10.4.8 and I can't use my new Apple keyboard or Safari 3 and I'm not upgrading because there's a bug in the GMA drivers that Apple haven't fixed yet despite there being a 10.4.9, .10 and .11 release.



    However, if I boot into XP - an OS from 7 years ago - I can use both. So Windows has better compatibility with even some of Apple's own products than OS X.
  • Reply 35 of 35
    MS never does this type crap!
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