The exchange rate between the dollar and the euro is just one explanation. The other is that it's always been more expensive to buy Apple gear here in Europe. Mind you, it's not just Apple, I wanted to buy a bag to go with a MacBook, and it was exactly the same price to order it from the USA with a $40 shipping fee than buy it from an European retailer with a 7.5 euro shipping fee
But I'm using today's exchange rate to compare the prices so how can that play a role? Or am I missing something here?
Moreover, both the U.S. and the European customer is using a product shipped from China, not the U.S.
To say that Apple products were always more expensive in Europe is neither an explanation, a justification, or, indeed, a comfort.
But on second thoughts and having just re-heard the audiobook: 'The Second Coming of Steve Jobs', I'm beginning to think that it may well be S.J.'s well-documented tendency to make as much as you can on any deal however fair or not.
'Fairness' is a word that just doesn't belong in S.J.'s vocabulary.
But I'm using today's exchange rate to compare the prices so how can that play a role? Or am I missing something here?
Moreover, both the U.S. and the European customer is using a product shipped from China, not the U.S.
To say that Apple products were always more expensive in Europe is neither an explanation, a justification, or, indeed, a comfort.
I know that it may seem harsh that Apple is over pricing in Europe, but its for a very simple reason. They're blaming all of Europe for that old taxation without representation thing from way back when, and sticking it to all of you now.
Actually, I'm guessing that there is either an import or export tax that someone is charging... you know, free trade and all....
I know that it may seem harsh that Apple is over pricing in Europe, but its for a very simple reason. They're blaming all of Europe for that old taxation without representation thing from way back when, and sticking it to all of you now.
Actually, I'm guessing that there is either an import or export tax that someone is charging... you know, free trade and all....
If Apple wants to increase the market share of Macs in Europe to that of the U.S., they could start by lowering the cost a bit.
The cheapest iMac here in Germany costs $1760. That's almost 50% more than in the States. It's the same with all other Apple products.
Sales tax here is 19%. So that doesn't explain it.
Why does Apple slap another 30% on?
You're right the Euro cost Apple products (after VAT) is the same as the dollar number
i.e. 1199 Euro - $1199
Taking of the VAT, you get about a 23% higher price in Germany compared to the US
- in the UK, we pay about 15% more for the honour of buying Apple than the US (exc VAT)
- so I would say that the Germany/France prices are way out of line
- there's no need to charge such a premium - a small amount of margin to allow for currency fluctations would be understandable, but 23% is ridiculous!
It's almost like they were just being lazy at Apple Germany - and just copief the Sticker prices and put a Euro sign on instead of a $!
But if they want to improve market-share on this side of the water they need to be more competitive, I think.
I've been meeting friends whose kids have convinced them to buy Macs. The kids have not been corrupted by work computers. Unfortunately, while the kids are comfortable with their own Macs, they aren't showing the parents how to actually USE OSX, and the initial experiences are not particularly satisfying. I'm thinking of putting up a sign in the supermarket offering one-on-one tutoring at a "reasonable" price. What the hell, I'm retired, anyway.
If Apple reaches 10% in "a few months" I'll eat my keyboard.
Better get ready to eat.
Actually, maybe 20% is a little overly-optimistic (but it may not be, we'll see, depending on how many people choose to buy new computers), but 10% is in the bag.
Among consumers, it might already be above 10%. Two fairly popular, non-computer-related blogs:
So you're going to be eating your keyboard before you know it.
And what's important is that these sources are looking mostly at consumers, not businesses. The snowball effect takes place among the consumers, though it could influence businesses later on.
I've been meeting friends whose kids have convinced them to buy Macs. The kids have not been corrupted by work computers. Unfortunately, while the kids are comfortable with their own Macs, they aren't showing the parents how to actually USE OSX, and the initial experiences are not particularly satisfying. I'm thinking of putting up a sign in the supermarket offering one-on-one tutoring at a "reasonable" price. What the hell, I'm retired, anyway.
What about Apple Store workshops? When they buy the computer, can't they learn about them there, or even ask their kids?
The day Mac OS X reaches 20% marker share worldwide, Windows will fade away in three years. Windows is maintained by ignorance (with all due respect) and inertia. People suffer it because they do not know that there is a much better alternative named Mac OS X.
How do you figure?
Apple doesn't care about most business or gamers - iWork '08( Keynote's nice, but everything else is sad...) and games, on a Mac?
To be honest with you, either I know too much about Windows to care, and because I use Ubuntu as well, but OSX just isn't that different or better. Vista may be built on a bed of gravel, but I find it fine for the most part.
I find Picasa better than iPhoto too, and with every revision, iTunes is getting worse, Safari is weak, as I prefer Opera or FF, and it offers nothing over the former. Other than pretty boxes, and the iPod, I think Apple's been neglecting their applications. And from my experience at work, Leopard hasn't been a bed of roses.
And I'll be upgrading to Leopard this weekend, so I'll be curious how that goes.
The more I use Windows, Linux, or OSX, the more I find them the same, with their own idiosyncrasies.
When Apple gets serious about a xMac, I'll listen, but their choices are too limited. Apple is where they are at in the computer market because of their own arrogance. The Vista/Mac ads are stupid and insulting...
I like my new Mac Mini, but I'll take Apple's or Microsoft's claims with a grain of salt.
When Apple gets serious about a xMac, I'll listen, but their choices are too limited.
You are not the target market then. The vast majority of consumers don't care about expandability - there is nothing to expand. They buy a Dell because it comes with Windows, not because it is a tower.
Quote:
Apple is where they are at in the computer market because of their own arrogance. The Vista/Mac ads are stupid and insulting...
What arrogance? Compared to Microsoft's unbelievable business practices?
- Announcing vaporware to make buyers hesitate in buying competing products
- Per-processor licensing to boxmakers
- Threats to force competitors out of the market
- Buying up competition and killing it
- Using monopoly status in OS to get monopoly in many other areas: browser, audio and video formats, etc.
- Tried to make Java work only on Windows and got slapped for it
- Putting fake error messages in Windows blaming DR-DOS
- Making non-W3C compliant web design apps to run only on Windows IE
- Threatening Apple to kill QuickTime
- Threatening Apple to kill MacBasic
- Threatening to stop Word and Excel development
- Making developers agree not to compete in order to get APIs
and many more..
If MS ever once had to compete on quality of the product, they would have been extinct 20 years ago.
Apple doesn't care about most business or gamers - iWork '08( Keynote's nice, but everything else is sad...) and games, on a Mac?
Gamers= non issue they don't generate consistent revenue/profits. Apple "does" care about business. Leopard Server is finally ready for primetime with full ACL support and Calendar Servers (Mail and Cal being clusterable). Spotlight Server is another boon as well as the sharing functionality.
To be honest with you, either I know too much about Windows to care, and because I use Ubuntu as well, but OSX just isn't that different or better. Vista may be built on a bed of gravel, but I find it fine for the most part.
Some people don't see the value in polish and elegance. That's not a negative on them.
I find Picasa better than iPhoto too, and with every revision, iTunes is getting worse, Safari is weak, as I prefer Opera or FF, and it offers nothing over the former. Other than pretty boxes, and the iPod, I think Apple's been neglecting their applications. And from my experience at work, Leopard hasn't been a bed of roses.
iTunes is becoming a mess. I think Apple should have a huge revision for ver 8. I like Picasa and felt it was better than iPhoto but I don't have the most recent iPhoto to compare so I'll withhold final judgement. Safari is not weak IMO. It displays my websites fine under Leopard my stability increased and the HTML support has improved. No it's not going to have a bajillion plugins like FF or Opera but weak is not what I'd call Safari and the benefits are pretty clear. Ask a web developer about how they feel about Safari 2 vs 3. Leopard has been fine for me but then again I'm not trying to make it connect to windows domains.
And I'll be upgrading to Leopard this weekend, so I'll be curious how that goes.
The more I use Windows, Linux, or OSX, the more I find them the same, with their own idiosyncrasies.
True..a computer is just a tool for most. I just can't swallow windows idiosyncrasies that annoy me (WGA, constant silly security alerts etc) OS X has been tranquil for me. It doesn't scream out for my attention at every step. Apple has made some awkward moves (stripping hierarchical doc folders) but I think what they've done with the core will make current apps better. Tiger was nice and all but developers are pretty keen on Leopard core technologies for their apps. That means less suckitude.
When Apple gets serious about a xMac, I'll listen, but their choices are too limited. Apple is where they are at in the computer market because of their own arrogance. The Vista/Mac ads are stupid and insulting...
I like my new Mac Mini, but I'll take Apple's or Microsoft's claims with a grain of salt.
I kind of think the computer market on a whole is stuck in stasis for a bit. We have cool procs...more storage than ever and the web but no one has really put things together with a breadth that makes them unbeatable.
I think Leopard is cool but not so cool that I'm a PC users so gobsmacked that I'm coming over. The era of the PC as a single computing entity is over. Vendors better start thinking about how they work in a networked and ubuiquitous environment. I need my data everywhere now. My inspiration doesn't follow typical work hours.
Comments
If Apple reaches 10% in "a few months" I'll eat my keyboard.
Can you please post the video of this on YouTube afterwards ?
The exchange rate between the dollar and the euro is just one explanation. The other is that it's always been more expensive to buy Apple gear here in Europe. Mind you, it's not just Apple, I wanted to buy a bag to go with a MacBook, and it was exactly the same price to order it from the USA with a $40 shipping fee than buy it from an European retailer with a 7.5 euro shipping fee
But I'm using today's exchange rate to compare the prices so how can that play a role? Or am I missing something here?
Moreover, both the U.S. and the European customer is using a product shipped from China, not the U.S.
To say that Apple products were always more expensive in Europe is neither an explanation, a justification, or, indeed, a comfort.
But on second thoughts and having just re-heard the audiobook: 'The Second Coming of Steve Jobs', I'm beginning to think that it may well be S.J.'s well-documented tendency to make as much as you can on any deal however fair or not.
'Fairness' is a word that just doesn't belong in S.J.'s vocabulary.
But I'm using today's exchange rate to compare the prices so how can that play a role? Or am I missing something here?
Moreover, both the U.S. and the European customer is using a product shipped from China, not the U.S.
To say that Apple products were always more expensive in Europe is neither an explanation, a justification, or, indeed, a comfort.
I know that it may seem harsh that Apple is over pricing in Europe, but its for a very simple reason. They're blaming all of Europe for that old taxation without representation thing from way back when, and sticking it to all of you now.
Actually, I'm guessing that there is either an import or export tax that someone is charging... you know, free trade and all....
I know that it may seem harsh that Apple is over pricing in Europe, but its for a very simple reason. They're blaming all of Europe for that old taxation without representation thing from way back when, and sticking it to all of you now.
Actually, I'm guessing that there is either an import or export tax that someone is charging... you know, free trade and all....
It seems a bit hard that all the other Europeans should be made to pay for the sins of we Brits!http://forums.appleinsider.com/image...s/1smoking.gif
If Apple wants to increase the market share of Macs in Europe to that of the U.S., they could start by lowering the cost a bit.
The cheapest iMac here in Germany costs $1760. That's almost 50% more than in the States. It's the same with all other Apple products.
Sales tax here is 19%. So that doesn't explain it.
Why does Apple slap another 30% on?
You're right the Euro cost Apple products (after VAT) is the same as the dollar number
i.e. 1199 Euro - $1199
Taking of the VAT, you get about a 23% higher price in Germany compared to the US
- in the UK, we pay about 15% more for the honour of buying Apple than the US (exc VAT)
- so I would say that the Germany/France prices are way out of line
- there's no need to charge such a premium - a small amount of margin to allow for currency fluctations would be understandable, but 23% is ridiculous!
It's almost like they were just being lazy at Apple Germany - and just copief the Sticker prices and put a Euro sign on instead of a $!
But if they want to improve market-share on this side of the water they need to be more competitive, I think.
All the more reason to add an xMac to the lineup, Apple. Let's push 50%.
-Clive
What drugs are you taking? They seem fun...
If Apple reaches 10% in "a few months" I'll eat my keyboard.
Better get ready to eat.
Actually, maybe 20% is a little overly-optimistic (but it may not be, we'll see, depending on how many people choose to buy new computers), but 10% is in the bag.
Among consumers, it might already be above 10%. Two fairly popular, non-computer-related blogs:
http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=...rdwatcher&r=19
http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=s26dafyoni&r=19
I've seen lots of other sitemeter reports, too, and they all tell the same story.
And how about this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...f=pd_ts_sw_nav
So you're going to be eating your keyboard before you know it.
And what's important is that these sources are looking mostly at consumers, not businesses. The snowball effect takes place among the consumers, though it could influence businesses later on.
I've been meeting friends whose kids have convinced them to buy Macs. The kids have not been corrupted by work computers. Unfortunately, while the kids are comfortable with their own Macs, they aren't showing the parents how to actually USE OSX, and the initial experiences are not particularly satisfying. I'm thinking of putting up a sign in the supermarket offering one-on-one tutoring at a "reasonable" price. What the hell, I'm retired, anyway.
Is this for the States, Worldwide?
The day Mac OS X reaches 20% marker share worldwide, Windows will fade away in three years. Windows is maintained by ignorance (with all due respect) and inertia. People suffer it because they do not know that there is a much better alternative named Mac OS X.
How do you figure?
Apple doesn't care about most business or gamers - iWork '08( Keynote's nice, but everything else is sad...) and games, on a Mac?
To be honest with you, either I know too much about Windows to care, and because I use Ubuntu as well, but OSX just isn't that different or better. Vista may be built on a bed of gravel, but I find it fine for the most part.
I find Picasa better than iPhoto too, and with every revision, iTunes is getting worse, Safari is weak, as I prefer Opera or FF, and it offers nothing over the former. Other than pretty boxes, and the iPod, I think Apple's been neglecting their applications. And from my experience at work, Leopard hasn't been a bed of roses.
And I'll be upgrading to Leopard this weekend, so I'll be curious how that goes.
The more I use Windows, Linux, or OSX, the more I find them the same, with their own idiosyncrasies.
When Apple gets serious about a xMac, I'll listen, but their choices are too limited. Apple is where they are at in the computer market because of their own arrogance. The Vista/Mac ads are stupid and insulting...
I like my new Mac Mini, but I'll take Apple's or Microsoft's claims with a grain of salt.
Stop being pedantic. Yes, it could have been written a bit better, but even a trained monkey understands the meaning.
My monkey had some trouble parsing that one. I explained it to him,
though, and he seems okay now. I would have preferred to skip that,
though. He throws feces when he's frustrated.
It could have been more clearly written.
When Apple gets serious about a xMac, I'll listen, but their choices are too limited.
You are not the target market then. The vast majority of consumers don't care about expandability - there is nothing to expand. They buy a Dell because it comes with Windows, not because it is a tower.
Apple is where they are at in the computer market because of their own arrogance. The Vista/Mac ads are stupid and insulting...
What arrogance? Compared to Microsoft's unbelievable business practices?
- Announcing vaporware to make buyers hesitate in buying competing products
- Per-processor licensing to boxmakers
- Threats to force competitors out of the market
- Buying up competition and killing it
- Using monopoly status in OS to get monopoly in many other areas: browser, audio and video formats, etc.
- Tried to make Java work only on Windows and got slapped for it
- Putting fake error messages in Windows blaming DR-DOS
- Making non-W3C compliant web design apps to run only on Windows IE
- Threatening Apple to kill QuickTime
- Threatening Apple to kill MacBasic
- Threatening to stop Word and Excel development
- Making developers agree not to compete in order to get APIs
and many more..
If MS ever once had to compete on quality of the product, they would have been extinct 20 years ago.
How do you figure?
Apple doesn't care about most business or gamers - iWork '08( Keynote's nice, but everything else is sad...) and games, on a Mac?
Gamers= non issue they don't generate consistent revenue/profits. Apple "does" care about business. Leopard Server is finally ready for primetime with full ACL support and Calendar Servers (Mail and Cal being clusterable). Spotlight Server is another boon as well as the sharing functionality.
To be honest with you, either I know too much about Windows to care, and because I use Ubuntu as well, but OSX just isn't that different or better. Vista may be built on a bed of gravel, but I find it fine for the most part.
Some people don't see the value in polish and elegance. That's not a negative on them.
I find Picasa better than iPhoto too, and with every revision, iTunes is getting worse, Safari is weak, as I prefer Opera or FF, and it offers nothing over the former. Other than pretty boxes, and the iPod, I think Apple's been neglecting their applications. And from my experience at work, Leopard hasn't been a bed of roses.
iTunes is becoming a mess. I think Apple should have a huge revision for ver 8. I like Picasa and felt it was better than iPhoto but I don't have the most recent iPhoto to compare so I'll withhold final judgement. Safari is not weak IMO. It displays my websites fine under Leopard my stability increased and the HTML support has improved. No it's not going to have a bajillion plugins like FF or Opera but weak is not what I'd call Safari and the benefits are pretty clear. Ask a web developer about how they feel about Safari 2 vs 3. Leopard has been fine for me but then again I'm not trying to make it connect to windows domains.
And I'll be upgrading to Leopard this weekend, so I'll be curious how that goes.
The more I use Windows, Linux, or OSX, the more I find them the same, with their own idiosyncrasies.
True..a computer is just a tool for most. I just can't swallow windows idiosyncrasies that annoy me (WGA, constant silly security alerts etc) OS X has been tranquil for me. It doesn't scream out for my attention at every step. Apple has made some awkward moves (stripping hierarchical doc folders) but I think what they've done with the core will make current apps better. Tiger was nice and all but developers are pretty keen on Leopard core technologies for their apps. That means less suckitude.
When Apple gets serious about a xMac, I'll listen, but their choices are too limited. Apple is where they are at in the computer market because of their own arrogance. The Vista/Mac ads are stupid and insulting...
I like my new Mac Mini, but I'll take Apple's or Microsoft's claims with a grain of salt.
I kind of think the computer market on a whole is stuck in stasis for a bit. We have cool procs...more storage than ever and the web but no one has really put things together with a breadth that makes them unbeatable.
I think Leopard is cool but not so cool that I'm a PC users so gobsmacked that I'm coming over. The era of the PC as a single computing entity is over. Vendors better start thinking about how they work in a networked and ubuiquitous environment. I need my data everywhere now. My inspiration doesn't follow typical work hours.