Any operator of an open WiFi or WiMax network faces a $300,000 fine if a user downloads cartoon porn!
Do you really think this legislation is about decency or is it about protecting the revenues of the cellphone industry?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil
With all due respect , I understand that corporations lie to sell their products and services and make a profit and government lies to protect national secrets and what have you . The difference is this , if the corporations get caught like Enron , they not only get sued by their shareholders , they will lose their clients and they will get hammered by the government .
Yes. Hoorah. But it does not happen enough, because legislators are more influenced by the shareholders of companies than the customers of companies. This is true everywhere. Europe, US, Japan. All manner of protectionism abounds.
But I don't think you get what is happening. In a true free market, costs of goods services should fall over time. This means inevitably some big companies, record companies, steel companies and telecommunications companies should fail. Their business model stops working and they cease to be relevant. Just like in nature, evolution happens.
But their money buys them influence and they use legislation to prop up their collapsing business model. They whine to their government. And now it's ILLEGAL to back-up a DVD. Epson wanted to use DMCA to make it ILLEGAL to use 3rd party ink in their printers. (lol) And now it'll be impossible to offer free wireless internet.
Can you see the pattern?
You are saying Government should back-off. I agree. It should back-off helping the big guy to squeeze the little guy. The pendulum needs to swing in the other direction and let market forces really do its stuff.
That means if I OWN a phone. I should be able to do what the frack I like with it. Throw it off a cliff, put it in a blender, ooh, I dunno, connect it to a phone network of MY CHOOSING.
Congratulations , now you know why knee jerk legislations are idiotic . Care to add more ???
Let me see , the Big Three car companies are getting their breakfast , lunch and dinner eaten by Toyota , Marshall Fields was sold to Macy's , Carson Pairie's flagship store In Illinois closed down and NYT stock is dropping like a rock and the Virgin superstore closed down over at Mag Mile last summer and you what the problem all these companies have , they cannot adjust to the current market realities .
Money buy influence , like your Parliament and the US Congress ? All the money poured by the Big Three in Congress did not help them against the Japanese auto companies , Microsoft is still getting hammered by the different states in regards to it's monopoly and Apple and other tech companies thru the free market are forcing MS to either improve or die . The only way big companies , corporations to survive the new market place is to adapt , innovate and improve their service . No damn laws , no amount of lobbying , no amount of money paid to legislators can change that very fact . In fact , ask Microsoft what happenned to the sales of Zune 1.0 when people found out that MS will pay 1 dollar to Universal for every Zune Microsoft sell , it tanked .
So you bought a iPhone , yeah , it yours , you can do anything with it BUT you cannot expect Apple to reimburse you for not honoring the agreement . That is where personal responsibility comes in and common sense . Don't expect the government to do it for you .
So you accept that Big Business uses legislation to squeeze the little guy
BUT
You don't think the little guy should push back?
(amazing!)
Markets need to be fair and transparent and permit free competition.
* Fair means "no lying" and "stuff should work in the way it is supposed to."
* Transparent means if I buy 3 packs of razor blades, I need to know how much they cost. Not be sent a bill in six weeks time.
* Free competition means when I buy a car, I can fill it up with gas from whoever I chose. That freedom is important because it's good for the consumer AND good for business in general.
The mobile phone industry is a terrible terrible industry. Obscure billing models. Complete absence of transparency. Artificial lock-ins and so on. It's shameful. And market forces can't fix it, because market forces are being blocked by these practices. Free Markets need protecting by the force of law to stop the bad guys from doing this bad stuff. That is EXACTLY what GOVERNMENT IS FOR.
Always for the little guy , huh , here is a little hint for you , once the government gets too big , it stops differentiating who is the little guy and who is the big fat corporation when it does public policies . It may look good on paper , but it would be an economic disaster when implemented to all businesses .
Let me do my own interpretation
A) Fairness is about the agreement of two parties on what a product can do as well as it's limitations, the terms and conditions of the use of the product , the cost of the product and the support the buyer would have after he buys the product . If the buyer ignores the T & C and do as he pleases on the product he bought within the warranty period , the seller may not support him . If the seller sold him a lemon or sold him a product that does meet the buyer's expectations , the buyer have the right to return the product to the seller and ask for a refund or an exchange . It takes two to tango in regards to fairness .
I don't know what you have there in the UK , but over here , we already know the cost of most of the products here up front . Companies found out it's good for business and it prevents nasty lawsuits as well as congressional hearings .
C) I agree in what you said about free competition , but you also forget that it also applies to businesses both big and small . They have the right to set terms and conditions , to choose their own partners , to set rights and limitations of their products in order to compete . What they don't have is forced you to buy their products , forced you to upgrade against your will and force you to buy a new version of their product when it becomes available and above all , not honor the agreement you and the corporation made when you bought it's product especially when you meet the terms and condition of the sale . Oh , yeah , I forgot , imposing artificial and highly illegal barriers on companies competing against it in the same market or in other words create an illegal monopoly .
I agree with you that the cell phone industry needs work , very , very badly , but having the government enact knee jerk laws will make things worse . If the government wants to reform the cell phone market , have both the consumer and the companies involved in the process and not activists and lobbyists .
Comments
Effectively outlawing WiFi , since we are out of topic , it ain' true
http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9829759-38.html
Any operator of an open WiFi or WiMax network faces a $300,000 fine if a user downloads cartoon porn!
Do you really think this legislation is about decency or is it about protecting the revenues of the cellphone industry?
With all due respect , I understand that corporations lie to sell their products and services and make a profit and government lies to protect national secrets and what have you . The difference is this , if the corporations get caught like Enron , they not only get sued by their shareholders , they will lose their clients and they will get hammered by the government .
Yes. Hoorah. But it does not happen enough, because legislators are more influenced by the shareholders of companies than the customers of companies. This is true everywhere. Europe, US, Japan. All manner of protectionism abounds.
But I don't think you get what is happening. In a true free market, costs of goods services should fall over time. This means inevitably some big companies, record companies, steel companies and telecommunications companies should fail. Their business model stops working and they cease to be relevant. Just like in nature, evolution happens.
But their money buys them influence and they use legislation to prop up their collapsing business model. They whine to their government. And now it's ILLEGAL to back-up a DVD. Epson wanted to use DMCA to make it ILLEGAL to use 3rd party ink in their printers. (lol) And now it'll be impossible to offer free wireless internet.
Can you see the pattern?
You are saying Government should back-off. I agree. It should back-off helping the big guy to squeeze the little guy. The pendulum needs to swing in the other direction and let market forces really do its stuff.
That means if I OWN a phone. I should be able to do what the frack I like with it. Throw it off a cliff, put it in a blender, ooh, I dunno, connect it to a phone network of MY CHOOSING.
C.
Let me see , the Big Three car companies are getting their breakfast , lunch and dinner eaten by Toyota , Marshall Fields was sold to Macy's , Carson Pairie's flagship store In Illinois closed down and NYT stock is dropping like a rock and the Virgin superstore closed down over at Mag Mile last summer and you what the problem all these companies have , they cannot adjust to the current market realities .
Money buy influence , like your Parliament and the US Congress ? All the money poured by the Big Three in Congress did not help them against the Japanese auto companies , Microsoft is still getting hammered by the different states in regards to it's monopoly and Apple and other tech companies thru the free market are forcing MS to either improve or die . The only way big companies , corporations to survive the new market place is to adapt , innovate and improve their service . No damn laws , no amount of lobbying , no amount of money paid to legislators can change that very fact . In fact , ask Microsoft what happenned to the sales of Zune 1.0 when people found out that MS will pay 1 dollar to Universal for every Zune Microsoft sell , it tanked .
So you bought a iPhone , yeah , it yours , you can do anything with it BUT you cannot expect Apple to reimburse you for not honoring the agreement . That is where personal responsibility comes in and common sense . Don't expect the government to do it for you .
BUT
You don't think the little guy should push back?
(amazing!)
Markets need to be fair and transparent and permit free competition.
* Fair means "no lying" and "stuff should work in the way it is supposed to."
* Transparent means if I buy 3 packs of razor blades, I need to know how much they cost. Not be sent a bill in six weeks time.
* Free competition means when I buy a car, I can fill it up with gas from whoever I chose. That freedom is important because it's good for the consumer AND good for business in general.
The mobile phone industry is a terrible terrible industry. Obscure billing models. Complete absence of transparency. Artificial lock-ins and so on. It's shameful. And market forces can't fix it, because market forces are being blocked by these practices. Free Markets need protecting by the force of law to stop the bad guys from doing this bad stuff. That is EXACTLY what GOVERNMENT IS FOR.
Let me do my own interpretation
A) Fairness is about the agreement of two parties on what a product can do as well as it's limitations, the terms and conditions of the use of the product , the cost of the product and the support the buyer would have after he buys the product . If the buyer ignores the T & C and do as he pleases on the product he bought within the warranty period , the seller may not support him . If the seller sold him a lemon or sold him a product that does meet the buyer's expectations , the buyer have the right to return the product to the seller and ask for a refund or an exchange . It takes two to tango in regards to fairness .
C) I agree in what you said about free competition , but you also forget that it also applies to businesses both big and small . They have the right to set terms and conditions , to choose their own partners , to set rights and limitations of their products in order to compete . What they don't have is forced you to buy their products , forced you to upgrade against your will and force you to buy a new version of their product when it becomes available and above all , not honor the agreement you and the corporation made when you bought it's product especially when you meet the terms and condition of the sale . Oh , yeah , I forgot , imposing artificial and highly illegal barriers on companies competing against it in the same market or in other words create an illegal monopoly .
I agree with you that the cell phone industry needs work , very , very badly , but having the government enact knee jerk laws will make things worse . If the government wants to reform the cell phone market , have both the consumer and the companies involved in the process and not activists and lobbyists .