Apple introduces new Apple TV software, lowers hardware pricing

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 94
    Well, its enough for me to get it. I already have a DVD player in my Xbox 360 and that works great. Why would I want to get a second one? I wont get a new device until Blu-Ray prices come down in the next year or so.



    I would like the ability to play the content from my computer (and I have a pretty fair amount) on my nice new TV. The Apple TV lets me do that. I also like the iTunes rentals.
  • Reply 62 of 94
    bsenkabsenka Posts: 799member
    You've got to be freaking kidding me. A SOFTWARE update? After all the talk about how the TV was going to be revamped, that's all they offer?



    This is the most no-news Macworld I can ever remember.
  • Reply 63 of 94
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogzilla View Post


    Well, its enough for me to get it. I already have a DVD player in my Xbox 360 and that works great. Why would I want to get a second one? I wont get a new device until Blu-Ray prices come down in the next year or so.



    I would like the ability to play the content from my computer (and I have a pretty fair amount) on my nice new TV. The Apple TV lets me do that. I also like the iTunes rentals.



    I'll probably drop the $20 on this app and see how well it lives up to its claims. If it does what it says then it's much more useful to me than the aTV and lets my PS3 play all my media.



    Medialink
  • Reply 64 of 94
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member
    Apple just released an external USB DVD drive in tasteful brushed aluminium styling.



    I really wish they'd write the code so that one could connect such a thing to an AppleTV.



    Amorya
  • Reply 65 of 94
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amorya View Post


    Apple just released an external USB DVD drive in tasteful brushed aluminium styling.



    I really wish they'd write the code so that one could connect such a thing to an AppleTV.



    Amorya



    Or tell us what the frkng USB port is for? I want to hear it from Apple. They put the thing on it, they should let us do something officially with it. Open it up to third party apps at the very least. WHo puts a physical feature on a product and never tells you what it's for? This must be a first in manufacturing. Have there ever been any other examples of such foolishness?
  • Reply 66 of 94
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Or tell us what the frkng USB port is for? I want to hear it from Apple. They put the thing on it, they should let us do something officially with it. Open it up to third party apps at the very least. WHo puts a physical feature on a product and never tells you what it's for? This must be a first in manufacturing. Have there ever been any other examples of such foolishness?



    There was the mezzanine slot on rev. A G3 iMacs. It actually had some cool uses though. One company figured out how to use it to add VooDoo 3D graphics capability to the iMac. Sadly, the mezzanine slot disappeared on subsequent iMac releases.
  • Reply 67 of 94
    cory bauercory bauer Posts: 1,286member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    So you pay money (but hey! it's less money since production costs have come down on what's essentially the same hardware we tried to wow you with last year) just for the luxury of paying too much to rent videos.



    You can't rent a new release from Blockbuster for less than than $6, which doesn't include driving to the store and back, or spending 45 minutes wandering the isles. You also don't have to deal with them not having the movie you want, scratched discs, next-gen formats and the players required, firmware upgrades, profile incompatibilities, all that good fun. Apple's also a dollar cheaper than the xBox live Marketplace, which doesn't have anywhere near the selection or convenience of the new Apple TV.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    To be honest, they should just charge a subscription fee and throw the aTV in for free.



    That would be the ideal solution, yes. They could charge you $1-$3 per month to lease the box, just like internet providers do with cable modems. I was gifted an Apple TV last year, so movie rentals is awesome for me. I can't say whether I'd actually drop $229 for the convenience if I wasn't given one for free.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    You've got to be freaking kidding me. A SOFTWARE update? After all the talk about how the TV was going to be revamped, that's all they offer?



    A software update and HD content, content, content. That was the only problem with the Apple TV all along, and now it's fixed.
  • Reply 68 of 94
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post






    A software update and HD content, content, content. That was the only problem with the Apple TV all along, and now it's fixed.



    You can't buy HD so how is it fixed?
  • Reply 69 of 94
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,279member
    Well I'm sold on the ATV. The lower price and rentals (some with 5.1) are certainly a bonus.



    We can all yell to the cows come home about what we want but right now we still have hardware constraints.



    I think that next year we get the second major revision of hardware and the ATV will be going to an Intel Silverthorne or Canmore chip. Right now the optimum thing for Apple to do is get the content in order.



    Unlike others I only plan for online rentals to augment my purchases and Netflix. I rent movies far cheaper with Netflix and money talks in this home. But for that time when you have friends over and you all need a consensus on what to watch having online downloads helps.



    Can't wait to get a good DSLR and view my photos on my HDTV. The .mac integration is nice as well since I'm going to be getting that service soon enough.
  • Reply 70 of 94
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post


    You can't rent a new release from Blockbuster for less than than $6, which doesn't include driving to the store and back, or spending 45 minutes wandering the isles. You also don't have to deal with them not having the movie you want, scratched discs, next-gen formats and the players required, firmware upgrades, profile incompatibilities, all that good fun. Apple's also a dollar cheaper than the xBox live Marketplace, which doesn't have anywhere near the selection or convenience of the new Apple TV.



    I don't pay anywhere near $6 for a rental now and I can't remember the last time I *ever* went to a store to rent. Netflix is cheaper, and aside from a single incident where a disc had a scratch that caused a problem their service has been exemplary. Their site takes my ratings and the recommendations of my friends and does a good job of suggesting potential content. I browse aimlessly only if I wish to. My plan costs $14 a month and I go through about 12 movies a month since I fit 'em in when I can and/or watch them multiple times. I pay no premium for HD content either. So, at 3.99 a pop, I'd get stuck paying $48 a month now (ignoring the hardware cost)? At 4.99 I'd be paying out $60.



    Let me be honest, I love movies. I love them a lot. I can watch a huge catalog of them for $14 a month if I accept at most a 2 or 3 day wait (usually 2). I don't see instant access being worth that huge premium.



    ( I can't speak to the Xbox points as I don't have one. )



    at the profile incompatibility point you make. Do you think *anyone* watches the "extras" and stuff on movies they rent? None of the profile issues prevent the movie from being viewed, seriously. I've got a PS3 anyhow so I wouldn't have that issue to contend with. Do *you* get all the extras with the movies you rent from Apple?



    The aTV is a cash register you install in your living room for Apple's convenience.



    I stand by my statement that this is certainly not their next iPod. It may be better than it was at release, but topping that was easy.
  • Reply 71 of 94
    cory bauercory bauer Posts: 1,286member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    You can't buy HD so how is it fixed?



    Nobody was buying movies on iTunes previously, why would they start today? The fix is that you can rent now, which is what people wanted to do all along. People don't want to drop $20 on a super-compressed file that only plays in a single location and requires they find a way of archiving it in case of drive failure, when for the same amount of money you could get a Blu-Ray or HD DVD with none of those hassles or compromises. People aren't going to want to invest hundreds of dollars in digital movies until they can play them anywhere they wish, and redownload them if something should happen to their collection.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    I don't pay anywhere near $6 for a rental now and I can't remember the last time I *ever* went to a store to rent. Netflix is cheaper, and aside from a single incident where a disc had a scratch that caused a problem their service has been exemplary. Their site takes my ratings and the recommendations of my friends and does a good job of suggesting potential content. I browse aimlessly only if I wish to. My plan costs $14 a month and I go through about 12 movies a month since I fit 'em in when I can and/or watch them multiple times. I pay no premium for HD content either. So, at 3.99 a pop, I'd get stuck paying $48 a month now (ignoring the hardware cost)? At 4.99 I'd be paying out $60.



    I'm also a Netflix subscriber, and intend to remain so. What I'll use the Apple TV for is renting films in HD which are only available on Blu-Ray, which I don't have a player of yet. Most people don't have either an HD DVD or Blu-Ray player yet, so the Apple TV gives them a way to enjoy films in HD without investing in a new (and possibly temporary) format. Also, few people rent 12 movies a month. Obviously Netflix is the best fit for people like you. For people who rent three movies or less a month, why not an Apple TV?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    Let me be honest, I love movies. I love them a lot. I can watch a huge catalog of them for $14 a month if I accept at most a 2 or 3 day wait (usually 2). I don't see instant access being worth that huge premium.



    The Apple TV is not for you. That doesn't automatically make it a failure of a product though.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    at the profile incompatibility point you make. Do you think *anyone* watches the "extras" and stuff on movies they rent? None of the profile issues prevent the movie from being viewed, seriously. I've got a PS3 anyhow so I wouldn't have that issue to contend with. Do *you* get all the extras with the movies you rent from Apple?



    Some profile 1.0 players have had playback issues with profile 1.1 discs. The film itself, not the extras.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    I stand by my statement that this is certainly not their next iPod. It may be better than it was at release, but topping that was easy.



    Oh I don't for a second believe they're going to sell tens of millions of Apple TVs, but now that it's no longer a half-baked product they're definitely going to start selling some.
  • Reply 72 of 94
    galleygalley Posts: 971member
    I ordered a refurbished 160GB tv for $279.00 this afternoon, and it's already on its way.
  • Reply 73 of 94
    Has anyone seen the guided tour of the Apple TV? That girl hosting the preview looks like she sinks ships. Does anyone agree?
  • Reply 74 of 94
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post


    People, the Apple TV is not a home media server, and it never will be. It's a bridge between your television and the iTunes Store, personal media on your computer, and online services otherwise trapped in the computer like YouTube, Flickr. etc. — these are the only three capabilities there isn't already a better device available to do.



    It doesn't need a DVD player because people already have those. It doesn't need to rip DVDs because it's 1,000,000 times faster just to put the disc in the DVD player you already own. It doesn't need to store every movie you ever bought because that's what your DVD shelf is for. And it's not going to ever be a tv tuner because allowing you to record television doesn't help Apple make money or their annual negotiations with studios & networks.



    So Cory, please tell me, do you own an iPod? I'm guessing you do. Why did you buy it? I'm also going to guess that at the time you purchased you iPod you also owned a CD player. In all likelihood, you owned a portable CD player. So I ask again, why did you buy an iPod? After all, you already had a way to listen to your CDs. And more importantly, if Apple had designed the iPod so that it could only play music you purchased from iTunes, would you still have bought it? Maybe you would have, but a lot of other people wouldn't have. Same with Apple TV. Will more people buy one now? Sure. Would even more people buy one if it had a DVD player? You bet!



    Already have a DVD player, you say? So why would I want to buy another one? Well, it seems there is a pretty good market for DVD players, so there must be people that are still buying them. And a lot of people who already own DVD players are upgrading to upconverting DVD players. I'm one of those people in the market up replace my aging, non-progressive, non-upconverting DVD players. I'm not going to buy both a new DVD player AND and Apple TV. it's just not going to happen.



    Finally, you argue that because most people already have a DVD player that Apple TV doesn't need one. By that argument, you also don't need an Apple TV at all then! Why? Because if you are like 85% of the US households, you have cable. Me, I have Comcast (2nd in evilness only to AT&T). You may have heard of their little service called "On Demand". Sure, their movies cost $1 more to rent; but then I'd have to rent 229 movies to cover the cost of Apple TV. I don't know about you, but I have a life.



    So, for me personally, Apple TV gives me nothing I need that I don't already have. I can already do everything between my DVD player, Airport Express (audio), and On Demand. And on the very, very rare occasions I need more, I plug my laptop into my TV. Just like I did tonight with the keynote address. I watched it upscaled to my 1080p plasma from the DVI port on my laptop. What, you can't do that with your Apple TV? What a shame!



    If Apple TV can't simplify my life, I've got better things to spend my money on. As it is right now, it only adds to the mess already connected to my TV.



    Don't get me wrong. Apple with sell more Apple TVs now that they have rentals. But DVD drives are dirt cheap. And it really wouldn't have cut into Apple's rental service. But even it it did, they first need to get the hardware into our homes, because until they do that, they'll have far fewer people to rent to.
  • Reply 75 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bambuhiphop View Post


    Building a product for niche market is not smart business. You limit returns. This market may continue to grow but historically has been slow to grow. I see the added value they are adding but the fact remains that they are not doing what they should do to capture more consumers to grow the space. They are business to make money. For pennies they can add functionality and grow the user base by leaps and bounds. Apple TV is a product way ahead of its time and does some things really well but if it wants to bring "video to the living room" they they need to help the average consumer transition into what it wants to do.



    All products fit into a niche. Some niches are larger than others. It's also known as product positioning.



    In the broadest possible sense, people who own televisions and want to watch DVDs are DVD player customers. Part of that audience will also want to buy televisions that have built-in DVD players. There are millions of possible ways to split the pie.
  • Reply 76 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by damiansipko View Post


    Has anyone seen the guided tour of the Apple TV? That girl hosting the preview looks like she sinks ships. Does anyone agree?



    Sinks ships? What does that mean? I thought she was kinda cute.
  • Reply 77 of 94
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Sinks ships? What does that mean? I thought she was kinda cute.



    That caught me off guard too. Was that a failed try at the "face that launched a thousand ships" Helen of Troy thing?



    Sinks ships makes me think of Rosie O'Donnel rampaging about ramped up on testosterone and wielding a club fashioned fom a dinosaur leg bone.
  • Reply 78 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ronster View Post


    No Apple TV hardware announcements?



    Other than 1080 (which still may be possible from the hardware), what else do you want from the hardware? Most of the complaints people had could be addressed with a software update, and many of them were.



    To be honest, I'm surprised anyone even expected a hardware update.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bambuhiphop View Post


    Building a product for niche market is not smart business. You limit returns. This market may continue to grow but historically has been slow to grow. I see the added value they are adding but the fact remains that they are not doing what they should do to capture more consumers to grow the space. They are business to make money. For pennies they can add functionality and grow the user base by leaps and bounds. Apple TV is a product way ahead of its time and does some things really well but if it wants to bring "video to the living room" they they need to help the average consumer transition into what it wants to do.



    When the iPod first shipped, it was a niche market. That seemed to work out OK. Heck, the mac itself has always been a niche market, and it's growing right now.



    The market for viewing digital files will grow, and from what I've seen the aTV update and rentals may be the biggest thing to encourage growth so far. What functionality do you think they could add for "pennies"?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    Netflix is cheaper...



    Yep. And it's a completely different sales model. As long as you consume enough, an all you can eat restaurant is cheaper than a regular one. But you don't eat just at all you can eat places, do you?



    I'm curious what netflix will offer, but so far nobody is offering a subscription plan for movies, are they? I don't see how it would be possible assuming that studios demand a set fee per viewing. Netflix can only do it because they are buying physical discs and don't have to pay a royalty every time they send it out.
  • Reply 79 of 94
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post


    Yep. And it's a completely different sales model. As long as you consume enough, an all you can eat restaurant is cheaper than a regular one. But you don't eat just at all you can eat places, do you?



    I'm curious what netflix will offer, but so far nobody is offering a subscription plan for movies, are they? I don't see how it would be possible assuming that studios demand a set fee per viewing. Netflix can only do it because they are buying physical discs and don't have to pay a royalty every time they send it out.



    I'll dispute that analogy.



    Netflix offers superior quality.

    Netflix offers superior selection

    Netflix charges no premium for FULL HD in my format of choice.

    I don't use their online content so I am content in waiting a couple days to rotate my selections.



    Hmm...judging from those criteria, it doesn't fit your "all you can eat buffet" model.



    aTV satisfies the "I want it now" personality

    aTV is lower quality

    aTV is inferior selection



    Hey, those criteria *do* satisfy the "all you can eat buffet" model!



    The only aspects of each which match your point are the prices.



    I get a much better deal with netflix at its "buffet" price than someone at the aTV "buffet" paying premium price. The aTV user also gets the privilege of paying a hefty fee just enter that buffet.



    As a consumer, I don't care about rationalizations for Apple's pricing structure. I believe they negotiated the best they could and this is the result. I don't fault then one bit for that. It doesn't change the fact that the cost of utilizing the iTMS for my rentals is higher and without the actual aTV, HD is off-limits.



    Maybe the aTV v3.0 will get it right.



    For $13.99 a month I can choose HD or SD content. At $2.99 or $3.99 I can watch 4 movies a month from the iTMS (actually at $3.99 I can't even finish that 4th one). If I want HD I pay a $229 "tax" for the privilege. I'm generally not cheap but I *can* recognize value, and the Netflix plan has it over the iTMS/aTV in my opinion.
  • Reply 80 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    The only aspects of each which match your point are the prices.



    I was only referring to prices with my analogy. Netflix is cheaper as long as you watch enough movies. But their biggest moneymaker is people who have a plan but don't get around to watching things - they end up paying more per movie than renting individually.



    And as for the cost of entry, I'm interested in aTV for viewing ripped dvds as well. I'm interested in the box regardless of whether it had rentals available or not. And if you're looking at the HD formats, you're probably going to pay more for a bluray player than for the aTV, so no cost of entry disadvantage there.



    Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages. Sure, netflix can be a good deal if it provides what you want and you take full advantage of it. But that doesn't mean it's the best option for everyone (nor does it mean that someone with netflix wouldn't find it useful to get a movie on a night where your discs are in transit, or if you want to make a last minute decision).
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