Apple's new MacBook Air dubbed world?s thinnest notebook

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  • Reply 201 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,035member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    This is a serious yawner. They should have rolled the MBA out quietly last week, and used the keynote to unveil the new Mac Pro. At least that would have been interesting.



    I mean, what was the objective here? Lets make the most under powered, least featured notebook we possibly can, then charge a massive premium for it just because it's thinner. A smaller footprint would be marginally impressive, but only a simpleton is impressed by "thin".



    You're not looking at the marketplace. This is by no means underpowered for its class, quite the opposite. Same for the price, though I had wished it to be a bit lower.



    Apple really did put some serious work into this, with some high technologies.



    It's worth the price.



    That doesn't mean that it's worth it to you, but that's another story.
  • Reply 202 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,035member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oilburner View Post


    Well, I have to say I am a bit disappointed.



    I am one of "those" people getting ready to switch back to Mac after a 10 yr absence, and have been anticipating today like Christmas! I have used subnotebooks for years. I think the MBA design is gorgeous, and as a sales rep, I do not need high-end power for video/photography, but I need a big enough screen for spreadsheets, SFA websites, reviewing marketing plans and .ppt slides. I want light and compact size due to the ever-constricting airline seats. The MBA form-factor and weight really appeal to me.



    BUT: I *always* travel with 2 batteries. I need at least 100gb of space for growth (currently using 85). Built in Ethernet is useful but I can probably make do with the USB dongle. Ethernet is still needed as some hotels do not have wifi and I have to connect to their broadband with Ethernet.



    Apple was SO CLOSE here!!!!! You can tell by the size of the screen bezel that they have enough room for a 15" screen. And no matte screen option? They could have kept Ethernet. The HDD options should have gone at least to the 160 GB ipod drive. All of those additions would have affected the thickness by .2" or so, but they would have been worth it for the way most of us work.



    As for competition - these are some previous laptops that are small and one is lighter, and without compromise on functionality:



    Toshiba R200 - less than 1" thick, 2 USB, SD, VGA, PCMCIA, internal modem, Ethernet wireless b/g. Weight = 2.74lbs. Battery life, approx 3.5 hrs



    Panasonic CF-W2 (now the W4 or 5) - CD R/W, 2 USB, wireless b/g, SD, PCMCIA, VGA, EThernet, built in modem, armored HD, 12.1" screen, mono, 2.6 lbs



    My current Panasonic CF-Y4 - DVD R/W, (2) USB, wireless b/g, SD, PCMCIA, VGA, Ethernet, built in modem, *armored HD* (tested up to a 4 ft. fall). 14" screen, stereo, and 3.4 lbs.



    I'm not starting a flame-war, I *want* a Mac, but I'm looking at my 3 year old Panasonic that still has 15gb of HDD left, a larger screen, built in drive, ethernet, SD, PCMCIA and is only .4lbs heavier! I just dont think I can justify the 1800 to go backwards. Maybe rev.2 or by the WWDC Apple will have some more compelling options for the MBA????



    You haven't given enough specs for any of those machines to be able to determine just what they actually are.
  • Reply 203 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,035member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wilco View Post


    Pot, meet Kettle.







    Ah, NOW Wilco's back.
  • Reply 204 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Ah, NOW Wilco's back.



    I may have mentioned this before, but I have grown accustomed to his crazy-aunt-in-the-cellar quality. (And does he ever post without an eye-roll?)



    It does break it up a bit......
  • Reply 205 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,035member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    I may have mentioned this before, but I have grown accustomed to his crazy-aunt-in-the-cellar quality. (And does he ever post without an eye-roll?)



    It does break it up a bit......



    Yeah. I suppose it just pays to sigh, and move on.
  • Reply 206 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post


    A couple of points that nobody else brought up.



    1. Why does the MBA only come with Mac OS X 10.5 and iLife 08'. It doesn't come with any other software. No OmniOutliner, no Quicken, no nothing (I also notice that the MB and MBP pages on Apple.com also list no other software on those notebooks either). Is this a new trend...



    2. Why doesn't Apple include a Front Row remote? $19 for that piece of junk isn't worth it....



    3. Shouldn't the Ethernet to USB hub be included in a $1800+ notebook?



    Dave



    1) I never knew that Macs came with Quicken!?



    2) Good question (if true).



    3) No, given all else that the MBA comes with. (I recommend you watch the video on apple.com, if you have not done so already).
  • Reply 207 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Yeah. I suppose it just pays to sigh, and move on.



    Or, and move on!
  • Reply 208 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm glad. I've collected way to many Apple remotes over the last two years. I nearly have a enough to play Mah Jong with.



    Dumb question: Do the remotes work across machines?
  • Reply 209 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,035member
    The problem here is that if Apple kept adding all of these little cost (though to some people here, even $19 seems to be a lot) items to the box, they would add up to a not so little cost. Then Apple would have to raise the price by that amount.



    When that happens, we always have some people here say that they don't need the remote, have no Ethernet, don't use Quicken, etc.



    They then complain that Apple HAS included them, and would Apple please leave them out so just the people who wanted them would have to pay for them.



    Duh! Which way did he go?
  • Reply 210 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    ..... but only a simpleton is impressed by "thin".



    I am truly impressed that you appreciate "fat." That's great.



    (No offense intended to anyone who is not thin).
  • Reply 211 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    You haven't given enough specs for any of those machines to be able to determine just what they actually are.



    melgross,



    Good point. The reason I didnt is that these are all previous machines, going back as much as 6 years. They were in the same "state of the art" realm that the MBA is today in that they used less power-consuming versions of the chipsets that were out in that day. For example, my 3 year-old CF-Y4 uses a 1.6 ghz centrino with 1 gb of RAM.



    I wasnt having a horsepower war, the point is that there are many other companies making very elegant, light, fast, battery-frugal designs out there. Apple takes that to another level for sure, the MBA is GORGEOUS! But honestly - that bezel around the screen? It actually looks like a 10 year old laptop screen. And thin is great, but I think for many of us that travel and need/use light weight, I'd sacrifice a 1/2 inch of depth for features that I use on the road.



    People here keep saying that these type machines are used by road warriors/execs and that is true from personal experience. But at some point the light weight/thinness that you built the device for comes with so many compromises that I end up lugging around a bunch of ancillary things just to get by.



    For the record, the current model of my Panasonic, the Y7 has the 1.8 core2duo, 2gb ram, 160gb HDD, 8 hour stated (probably 5 hour real, mine is) battery life, 14.1" screen, and 3.3 lbs. Again - I am not bashing the Air, just pointing out that others are meeting similar benchmarks with more features for same/less money..
  • Reply 212 of 399
    I think that the things Apple introduced are truly great products except for the continued crippled iPhone but I know it's not easy developing a product that is all things to everyone. But my biggest disappointment is the lack of a tablet mac. The airMac would have made a truly great tablet and would have set the industry on fire. All you read is how they (tablets) just haven't taken off and there isn't a huge market for them. I think that Apple can define the field. Look at what's there in the tablet market, cumbersome, heavy, Windows oriented tablet computers which are not a lot better than sitting down in front of a regular laptop. A airMac tablet that can be attached to a large desktop screen and a blue tooth keyboard would be magic. It could be used as a media center in a car, GPS mapping device in a car and backup in an airplane, classroom note taking, networked in healthcare settings and many more uses. It would define the portable computer market for years to come.
  • Reply 213 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oilburner View Post


    Toshiba R200 - less than 1" thick, 2 USB, SD, VGA, PCMCIA, internal modem, Ethernet wireless b/g. Weight = 2.74lbs. Battery life, approx 3.5 hrs



    Panasonic CF-W2 (now the W4 or 5) - CD R/W, 2 USB, wireless b/g, SD, PCMCIA, VGA, EThernet, built in modem, armored HD, 12.1" screen, mono, 2.6 lbs



    My current Panasonic CF-Y4 - DVD R/W, (2) USB, wireless b/g, SD, PCMCIA, VGA, Ethernet, built in modem, *armored HD* (tested up to a 4 ft. fall). 14" screen, stereo, and 3.4 lbs.



    Except, you don't mention that the Toshiba retails for about $2100, and the Panasonic CF-Y4 for $2000. I don't know what the "CF-W2" sells for (how the heck do they come up with these names!?).



    Since you have all these wonderful alternatives, what the heck are you complaining about?
  • Reply 214 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,035member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oilburner View Post


    melgross,



    Good point. The reason I didnt is that these are all previous machines, going back as much as 6 years. They were in the same "state of the art" realm that the MBA is today in that they used less power-consuming versions of the chipsets that were out in that day. For example, my 3 year-old CF-Y4 uses a 1.6 ghz centrino with 1 gb of RAM.



    I wasnt having a horsepower war, the point is that there are many other companies making very elegant, light, fast, battery-frugal designs out there. Apple takes that to another level for sure, the MBA is GORGEOUS! But honestly - that bezel around the screen? It actually looks like a 10 year old laptop screen. And thin is great, but I think for many of us that travel and need/use light weight, I'd sacrifice a 1/2 inch of depth for features that I use on the road.



    People here keep saying that these type machines are used by road warriors/execs and that is true from personal experience. But at some point the light weight/thinness that you built the device for comes with so many compromises that I end up lugging around a bunch of ancillary things just to get by.



    For the record, the current model of my Panasonic, the Y7 has the 1.8 core2duo, 2gb ram, 160gb HDD, 8 hour stated (probably 5 hour real, mine is) battery life, 14.1" screen, and 3.3 lbs. Again - I am not bashing the Air, just pointing out that others are meeting similar benchmarks with more features for same/less money..



    I'm not so sure you're right.



    There are cheaper machines with features, and more expensive machines with features. You can always pull the cheaper ones for comparison, while leaving out the more expensive ones, which is what you've done.



    If you don't consider the features that Apple has put in, and only the ones the others have put in then it's not a fair comparison.



    If you say that Apple's features are not important to you, but the others are, then you are not stating which machine has more value, just which machine has more value for YOU.



    If a cheap plastic case is a better feature then the aluminum die castings Apple is using, then that's one for the cheaper model.



    If the LED backlighting (and much better color) is not important, then Apple loses again.



    If you don't care for the very large multi-touch trackpad, scratch another one from Apple.



    We can go down the entire feature list that way.



    We can also go the other way. Would I need a built-in DVD combo drive? No. Useless to me, etc.



    Where do we start.



    Try looking at the better machines on the market, and you will find them to be as expensive as this, or more expensive, and some have even less to offer.
  • Reply 215 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    The problem here is that if Apple kept adding all of these little cost (though to some people here, even $19 seems to be a lot) items to the box, they would add up to a not so little cost. Then Apple would have to raise the price by that amount.



    When that happens, we always have some people here say that they don't need the remote, have no Ethernet, don't use Quicken, etc.



    They then complain that Apple HAS included them, and would Apple please leave them out so just the people who wanted them would have to pay for them.



    Duh! Which way did he go?



    True enough. So lets compromise on a few general truisms:



    1. HD size - not everyone needs 160 gb, but many of us do. You have a drive that size, let me have an option to put it in, and I'll accept the loss of 15 minutes of battery life.



    2. battery - road warriors always like to have an extra battery. Heck, with an old Dell, I would take 4 of them for pan-Asian trips, just to have enough safe margin for the plane trip. Also - maybe this is more of a Windows problem but sometimes it is needed to pull the battery as that is the only way to ultimately "kill" the laptop in order to reset it if you are having problems. I dont know if OSX has any of those kind of situations, but to not be able to pull a battery seems a bit...weird.



    3. connectivity - I can probably handle an Ethernet dongle, but what about EVDO card options?





    Somewhere in the middle between "I want everything for 2.5 lbs and 10 hrs battery life" and " it is so cool, but it doesnt do anything". If the device was truly created for those that travel and use it as a 2nd device, then those needs are not too much to ask. I see from your last comment that you accuse me of comparing this need to that. I am not doing a feature-to-feature copmarison. I am saying that other makers have created competitive machines with similar specs and more features for the same weight and similar money. THAT is a fact.



    The point of ports is that they are cheap to put in and give people the option of expandibility at very little relative cost for the machine. If thin was the compromise to utility and lower cost, I'd take slightly thicker and more useful. And I believe a larger percentage of the general public would, too. I have not heard too much general sentiment that laptops were too "thick".
  • Reply 216 of 399
    cory bauercory bauer Posts: 1,286member
    $1,000 more than it ought to be for what's inside. Like the cube, this product belongs below the consumer line, not between the consumer and pro line. Less shouldn't cost more.
  • Reply 217 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,035member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oilburner View Post


    True enough. So lets compromise on a few general truisms:



    1. HD size - not everyone needs 160 gb, but many of us do. You have a drive that size, let me have an option to put it in, and I'll accept the loss of 15 minutes of battery life.



    2. battery - road warriors always like to have an extra battery. Heck, with an old Dell, I would take 4 of them for pan-Asian trips, just to have enough safe margin for the plane trip. Also - maybe this is more of a Windows problem



    3. connectivity - I can probably handle an Ethernet dongle, but what about EVDO card options?





    Somewhere in the middle between "I want everything for 2.5 lbs and 10 hrs battery life" and " it is so cool, but it doesnt do anything". If the device was truly created for those that travel and use it as a 2nd device, then those needs are not too much to ask...



    This machine IS between the 10 hour life and doesn't do anything.



    This machine isn't for everyone. Surprise!



    No machine is for everyone. That's a surprise too, right?



    What card options would you want, other than perhaps Firewire, or maybe eSATA?



    It already has most everything else built-in.
  • Reply 218 of 399
    ytvytv Posts: 109member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trboyden View Post


    Yep, there's your next Dell, HP, and anyone else that uses Intel's spec platforms.



    <rant>



    The MacBook Air will die just like the other niche products Apple's produced in the past (Cube, Newton, etc...) there is just not a market for a mid-ranged stripped down product. This is not the small mobile product to jump start the Japanese market and it's definately not a "Pro" model with a 1.8" hard drive. That puppy just isn't going to take the abuse that a daily computing load will put on it. Throw in any significant graphics/video work and it will probably die in about a year. I only get about a 1 1/2 - 2 years out of my notebook hard drives in my other Mac notebooks now.



    Once Dell, HP and the others come out with their versions of the Intel Metro, the MacBook Air will be done.



    Apple needs to concentrate on their core market and produce the successor to the Mini and fill the desktop gap between the Mini and the Mac Pro. The iMac isn't it. It needs to be a headless desktop with expandability like the Mac Pro. Bring back an Intel machine like the G4 PowerMac tower!!!



    I'm tired of all these gadgets, that was never what Apple was about.



    </rant>



    Not sure why your hard drives are dying so fast, I have had dozens of computers and have never had a hard drive fail ever. Successor to the mini, lol. The mini is basically a notebook without a screen. If Apple makes a desktop tower between the mini and the mac pro, that will kill 70% of mac pro sales instantly, Apple know this, thats why they dont.
  • Reply 219 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,035member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post


    $1,000 more than it ought to be for what's inside. Like the cube, this product belongs below the consumer line, not between the consumer and pro line. Less shouldn't cost more.



    Less here mostly means volume. There is very little that isn't in it, other than the DVD burner.



    Most other comparable machines don't have one either.
  • Reply 220 of 399
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Dumb question: Do the remotes work across machines?



    All the remotes will work any Mac, AppleTV, or IR iPod dock. But you can pair a remote with your AppleTV or Mac, this will link that particular remote control to that device until you unpair it. That paired remote control will still work on any unpaired device; the pairing is only one way as the remote control is too simple of a device as it only sends the signal out.
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