No, they're a value judgements, opinions based on what we know. Maybe try using a dictionary before you use any more English.
LOL.
OK.
According to the American Heritage Dictionary:
value judgment
An assessment of a person, situation, or event. The term is often restricted to assessments that reveal the values of the person making the assessment rather than the objective realities of what is being assessed. (Italics and underlining mine).
2) Last I looked, this site is called "Appleinsider." In any event, now that you "...see what people mean with this whole fanboy thing" and (obviously) do not like what you see, I am sure you'll decide to leave.
3) Bye!
So if this site is called "AppleInsider" you're not allowed to have negative options about Apple? Also if you disagree with rabid fanboys you should leave? That's pretty self-serving and immature at best. Did it ever cross your mind to just counter his arguments with your own? Maybe you tried that and failed, so now you're having a little petulant fit. Maybe you should go to your room and come back when you can play nice with others.
An assessment of a person, situation, or event. The term is often restricted to assessments that reveal the values of the person making the assessment rather than the objective realities of what is being assessed. (Italics and underlining mine).
Just wondering, with everyone saying the Air will be worse performing than the cheapest macbook, wont the 2GB as standard in the Air actually provide a faster experience in normal OS performance when compared to the 1GB as standard in the macbook.
Wouldn't the extra gig make more of a difference than the 400 mhz in power which isnt normally used in day to day tasks (whereas the extra ram would be?)
Just wondering, with everyone saying the Air will be worse performing than the cheapest macbook, wont the 2GB as standard in the Air actually provide a faster experience in normal OS performance when compared to the 1GB as standard in the macbook.
Wouldn't the extra gig make more of a difference than the 400 mhz in power which isnt normally used in day to day tasks (whereas the extra ram would be?)
just my 2 cents.
Regular memory is cheap now. I think if you buy third party memory, you can get 4GB for about $100.
Personally, I do want to buy this MBAir, but it won't be soon. Regular notebooks generally feel like they're going to burn through my pants, and from the descriptions of people trying these things, they're really cool to the touch. I'm hoping the battery life is as claimed for real use.
Regular memory is cheap now. I think if you buy third party memory, you can get 4GB for about $100.
Personally, I do want to buy this MBAir, but it won't be soon. Regular notebooks generally feel like they're going to burn through my pants, and from the descriptions of people trying these things, they're really cool to the touch. I'm hoping the battery life is as claimed for real use.
Memory isn't cheap, it costs $850 to upgrade to 4G if you buy it at the Apple store (as a BTO option).
The Air is slower, so it's cooler. But then again if you run it at full tilt, it'll still get hot, just less so. When I handled one it wasn't hot, but then again it wasn't doing anything and it wasn't plugged in, which typically generates heat.
Memory isn't cheap, it costs $850 to upgrade to 4G if you buy it at the Apple store (as a BTO option).
The Air is slower, so it's cooler. But then again if you run it at full tilt, it'll still get hot, just less so. When I handled one it wasn't hot, but then again it wasn't doing anything and it wasn't plugged in, which typically generates heat.
the guy you quoted did say "regular memory" as in non-apple memory.. as in, sensible people buy this memory, as in crucial.com or something like that... you know, like the 4GB of macbook ram I can buy if i click this link...
At any rate, I have been reading a lot of these comments and observing the general consensus of the MBA on this thread. People seem underwhelmed.. and I have to say I feel the same.
I do think that it has pushed the envelope in terms of design, as apple always does, and I can appreciate that... But i think its simply not worth it. So basically what it boils down to, is I can pay $600 LESS money for a MacBook with upgraded ram 3rd party, and get a faster processor, 4gb ram, a faster 5400RPM hard drive, optical drive included, FireWire, 2USB, ethernet, better wifi reception (since apples non-metal computers get much better wifi), mic input, digital audio out and in, longer battery life, ability to change my own battery, and an included remote control...... and all I have to give up is 2.2lbs of "lightness", 0.35 inches of thickness, and a backlit keyboard.?!?!?! count me in.
apple also seems to rely sooooo much on wifi (in a metal computer no less) and never even addresses cellular internet connectivity. why no option to build it in??? not that apple shouldnt be different.. but literally EVERY other manufacturer offers that option...... so, what, now I have to buy the usb CDMA or HSDPA adapter thats twice as thick as the actual computer I'm using it on.... FAIL
I can pay $600 LESS money for a MacBook with upgraded ram 3rd party, and get a faster processor, 4gb ram, a faster 5400RPM hard drive, optical drive included, FireWire, 2USB, ethernet, better wifi reception (since apples non-metal computers get much better wifi), mic input, digital audio out and in, longer battery life, ability to change my own battery, and an included remote control.
Memory isn't cheap, it costs $850 to upgrade to 4G if you buy it at the Apple store (as a BTO option).
The Air is slower, so it's cooler. But then again if you run it at full tilt, it'll still get hot, just less so. When I handled one it wasn't hot, but then again it wasn't doing anything and it wasn't plugged in, which typically generates heat.
Thanks for either not comprehending what I said, or for selective reading to push your agenda. Cute.
Quote:
I think if you buy third party memory, you can get 4GB for about $100.
I didn't say first party memory there, did I? I know Apple puts a heavy sticker on their memory prices. I think most Mac fans know better than to buy first party memory, buying third party memory is one of the most common recommendations I see.
It's not the same RAM, it's the same type of RAM. Even the same type of RAM from different manufacturers can have very different latency times.
Still, every mac user knows to get RAM and HDDs from a 3rd party.
Quote:
So basically what it boils down to, is I can pay $600 LESS money for a MacBook with upgraded ram 3rd party, and get a faster processor, 4gb ram, a faster 5400RPM hard drive, optical drive included, FireWire, 2USB, ethernet, better wifi reception (since apples non-metal computers get much better wifi), mic input, digital audio out and in, longer battery life, ability to change my own battery, and an included remote control...... and all I have to give up is 2.2lbs of "lightness", 0.35 inches of thickness, and a backlit keyboard.?!?!?! count me in.
By that logic should just get a cheap HP or DELL desktop for $200 instead of paying that for an iPod. An iPod can't play DVDs, has a very tiny screen, can't surf the internet, has hardly any storage in comparison, has a 7200RPM HDD, has USB ports and ethernet and a mic, and is a whole lot faster.
(This is where you say that is a stupid comparison because they have different uses)
Just as the MBA has different uses and capabilities than a MB or MBP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy
So get the MacBook. The MBA isn't for you.
haha I love this begging for 4GB. Up until the recent Santa Rosa platform the max RAM was 3GB and that was a huge premium even from 3rd party vendors. 2GB is more than enough for this market's intended market.
haha I love this begging for 4GB. Up until the recent Santa Rosa platform the max RAM was 3GB and that was a huge premium even from 3rd party vendors. 2GB is more than enough for this market's intended market.
Absolutely. My MBP 17" (2.16 Core Duo) maxes out at the 2GB that I have in it. I've had this machine since June 2006, and it works just beautifully and efficiently for all my needs (incl. some major-league data crunching).
"Even so, the Air isn’t for everyone. Bargain hunters, feature counters and people who don’t see the value of elegance . . ."
Wow - that so perfectly sums it up. People who don't see the value of elegance. I will have to use that the next time somebody makes an anti-Apple comment.
Dude: "Hey man Apple sucks."
Me: "Well obviously YOU don't see the value of elegance, troglodyte."
"Even so, the Air isn’t for everyone. Bargain hunters, feature counters and people who don’t see the value of elegance . . ."
Wow - that so perfectly sums it up. People who don't see the value of elegance. I will have to use that the next time somebody makes an anti-Apple comment.
Dude: "Hey man Apple sucks."
Me: "Well obviously YOU don't see the value of elegance, troglodyte."
So what Pouge and you are saying is that the Air isn't for anyone that the feature set doesn't suit. Duh. Much more interesting is an examination of the feature set that Apple has chosen. As I've already said, there are only three advantages to the Air over the MacBook: looks, volume and weight. The costs are ports, CD drive, memory expansion, removable battery, stereo speakers, HD issues and price.
Any design is a trade-off and any product has its own market with some people liking it and not. The question is has Apple gone too far in one direction, delivering a very attractive machine that is less practical? I think the big mistake they made is that they didn't reduce the footprint and it was almost solely for looks. The curving of the case yields a lot of unusable interior space around all the edges. Without it the machine might be less attractive, but have a smaller footprint. I think most people looking to buy in this category are more bothered by that than the other limitations, which most people will accept are required for a small machine.
So the question is, what do you prefer: pretty curves or reduced footprint?
Any design is a trade-off and any product has its own market with some people liking it and not. The question is has Apple gone too far in one direction, delivering a very attractive machine that is less practical?
That is an excellent question!
If we could end the chicken little hoo-raa perhaps we could have a thoughtfull converation about the intended market and Apple's uncanny history of either predicting the flow--or forcing the flow--of technological changes.
PS: Does the mono speaker bother anyone? I use noise canceling headphones while flying, even when not pumping sound through them to help me sleep in peace, so it's not a deal breaker for me. This, IMO, gives more evidence that the intended market is flyers.
So what Pouge and you are saying is that the Air isn't for anyone that the feature set doesn't suit. Duh.
I wasn't really commenting on the Air specifically - but rather people in general who never add the value of elegance when comparing or critiquing an Apple product. Apple haters and reviewers almost always do this.
Who is the Air for? Who cares? I mean really, who cares? That's Apples business and what differences does it make to anyone here? Buy if you like, don't buy if you don't.
PS: Does the mono speaker bother anyone? I use noise canceling headphones while flying, even when not pumping sound through them to help me sleep in peace, so it's not a deal breaker for me. This, IMO, gives more evidence that the intended market is flyers.
Not one bit. My MBP has stereo speakers, and my Tangerine iBook has a mono, and there is no usability difference between them
A 1.6 or 1.8Ghz, a lot of people are concerned about the speed differences between MacBook and MBP users.
I am sure a simple way is for Apple to release a firmware update that will "bump" up the clock to 2.2Ghz or 2.4Ghz when plugged in. This would mean corresponding fan speed adjustments. Its easy to do. And I don't understand WHY apple did not do this on Day One!.
Are they "forcing" people to accept the compromises by being conservative ?. Maybe. I cant help but think they should have done more in terms of the hardware itself rather than hyping on design and thinness.\
Comments
I'd like to see the specs of the turd and the shiny plate before I make a judgement.
(I withdrew my comment here, since it was needlessly nasty.)
No, they're a value judgements, opinions based on what we know. Maybe try using a dictionary before you use any more English.
LOL.
OK.
According to the American Heritage Dictionary:
value judgment
An assessment of a person, situation, or event. The term is often restricted to assessments that reveal the values of the person making the assessment rather than the objective realities of what is being assessed. (Italics and underlining mine).
Since you might conclude that it is mindless speculation on my part, see: http://dictionary.reference.com/cite...dgment&ia=ahcl
1) You seem to know a lot about crap.
2) Last I looked, this site is called "Appleinsider." In any event, now that you "...see what people mean with this whole fanboy thing" and (obviously) do not like what you see, I am sure you'll decide to leave.
3) Bye!
So if this site is called "AppleInsider" you're not allowed to have negative options about Apple? Also if you disagree with rabid fanboys you should leave? That's pretty self-serving and immature at best. Did it ever cross your mind to just counter his arguments with your own? Maybe you tried that and failed, so now you're having a little petulant fit. Maybe you should go to your room and come back when you can play nice with others.
Ah, I figured there had to be a connection. 'merdhead' does rhyme with.....
Ugh. 'Merd' is French for shit.
LOL.
OK.
According to the American Heritage Dictionary:
value judgment
An assessment of a person, situation, or event. The term is often restricted to assessments that reveal the values of the person making the assessment rather than the objective realities of what is being assessed. (Italics and underlining mine).
Since you might conclude that it is mindless speculation on my part, see: http://dictionary.reference.com/cite...dgment&ia=ahcl
All opinions are value judgements. So your point is? Did you look up speculation more to the point?
Just wondering, with everyone saying the Air will be worse performing than the cheapest macbook, wont the 2GB as standard in the Air actually provide a faster experience in normal OS performance when compared to the 1GB as standard in the macbook.
Wouldn't the extra gig make more of a difference than the 400 mhz in power which isnt normally used in day to day tasks (whereas the extra ram would be?)
just my 2 cents.
comparing to macbook:
Just wondering, with everyone saying the Air will be worse performing than the cheapest macbook, wont the 2GB as standard in the Air actually provide a faster experience in normal OS performance when compared to the 1GB as standard in the macbook.
Wouldn't the extra gig make more of a difference than the 400 mhz in power which isnt normally used in day to day tasks (whereas the extra ram would be?)
just my 2 cents.
Regular memory is cheap now. I think if you buy third party memory, you can get 4GB for about $100.
Personally, I do want to buy this MBAir, but it won't be soon. Regular notebooks generally feel like they're going to burn through my pants, and from the descriptions of people trying these things, they're really cool to the touch. I'm hoping the battery life is as claimed for real use.
Regular memory is cheap now. I think if you buy third party memory, you can get 4GB for about $100.
Personally, I do want to buy this MBAir, but it won't be soon. Regular notebooks generally feel like they're going to burn through my pants, and from the descriptions of people trying these things, they're really cool to the touch. I'm hoping the battery life is as claimed for real use.
Memory isn't cheap, it costs $850 to upgrade to 4G if you buy it at the Apple store (as a BTO option).
The Air is slower, so it's cooler. But then again if you run it at full tilt, it'll still get hot, just less so. When I handled one it wasn't hot, but then again it wasn't doing anything and it wasn't plugged in, which typically generates heat.
Memory isn't cheap, it costs $850 to upgrade to 4G if you buy it at the Apple store (as a BTO option).
The Air is slower, so it's cooler. But then again if you run it at full tilt, it'll still get hot, just less so. When I handled one it wasn't hot, but then again it wasn't doing anything and it wasn't plugged in, which typically generates heat.
the guy you quoted did say "regular memory" as in non-apple memory.. as in, sensible people buy this memory, as in crucial.com or something like that... you know, like the 4GB of macbook ram I can buy if i click this link...
http://crucial.com/store/listparts.a...29%20MB062LL/B
yeeeahhh. SAME RAM that apple uses.
At any rate, I have been reading a lot of these comments and observing the general consensus of the MBA on this thread. People seem underwhelmed.. and I have to say I feel the same.
I do think that it has pushed the envelope in terms of design, as apple always does, and I can appreciate that... But i think its simply not worth it. So basically what it boils down to, is I can pay $600 LESS money for a MacBook with upgraded ram 3rd party, and get a faster processor, 4gb ram, a faster 5400RPM hard drive, optical drive included, FireWire, 2USB, ethernet, better wifi reception (since apples non-metal computers get much better wifi), mic input, digital audio out and in, longer battery life, ability to change my own battery, and an included remote control...... and all I have to give up is 2.2lbs of "lightness", 0.35 inches of thickness, and a backlit keyboard.?!?!?! count me in.
apple also seems to rely sooooo much on wifi (in a metal computer no less) and never even addresses cellular internet connectivity. why no option to build it in??? not that apple shouldnt be different.. but literally EVERY other manufacturer offers that option...... so, what, now I have to buy the usb CDMA or HSDPA adapter thats twice as thick as the actual computer I'm using it on.... FAIL
I can pay $600 LESS money for a MacBook with upgraded ram 3rd party, and get a faster processor, 4gb ram, a faster 5400RPM hard drive, optical drive included, FireWire, 2USB, ethernet, better wifi reception (since apples non-metal computers get much better wifi), mic input, digital audio out and in, longer battery life, ability to change my own battery, and an included remote control.
So get the MacBook. The MBA isn't for you.
Memory isn't cheap, it costs $850 to upgrade to 4G if you buy it at the Apple store (as a BTO option).
The Air is slower, so it's cooler. But then again if you run it at full tilt, it'll still get hot, just less so. When I handled one it wasn't hot, but then again it wasn't doing anything and it wasn't plugged in, which typically generates heat.
Thanks for either not comprehending what I said, or for selective reading to push your agenda. Cute.
I think if you buy third party memory, you can get 4GB for about $100.
I didn't say first party memory there, did I? I know Apple puts a heavy sticker on their memory prices. I think most Mac fans know better than to buy first party memory, buying third party memory is one of the most common recommendations I see.
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other.../53IM2DDR4GBK/
$93 / 4GB set
http://www.transintl.com/store/categ...estTimeOut=500
$96 / 4GB set
They're both reputable companies. I've placed four orders with the first company.
yeeeahhh. SAME RAM that apple uses.
It's not the same RAM, it's the same type of RAM. Even the same type of RAM from different manufacturers can have very different latency times.
Still, every mac user knows to get RAM and HDDs from a 3rd party.
So basically what it boils down to, is I can pay $600 LESS money for a MacBook with upgraded ram 3rd party, and get a faster processor, 4gb ram, a faster 5400RPM hard drive, optical drive included, FireWire, 2USB, ethernet, better wifi reception (since apples non-metal computers get much better wifi), mic input, digital audio out and in, longer battery life, ability to change my own battery, and an included remote control...... and all I have to give up is 2.2lbs of "lightness", 0.35 inches of thickness, and a backlit keyboard.?!?!?! count me in.
By that logic should just get a cheap HP or DELL desktop for $200 instead of paying that for an iPod. An iPod can't play DVDs, has a very tiny screen, can't surf the internet, has hardly any storage in comparison, has a 7200RPM HDD, has USB ports and ethernet and a mic, and is a whole lot faster.
(This is where you say that is a stupid comparison because they have different uses)
Just as the MBA has different uses and capabilities than a MB or MBP.
So get the MacBook. The MBA isn't for you.
haha I love this begging for 4GB. Up until the recent Santa Rosa platform the max RAM was 3GB and that was a huge premium even from 3rd party vendors. 2GB is more than enough for this market's intended market.
haha I love this begging for 4GB. Up until the recent Santa Rosa platform the max RAM was 3GB and that was a huge premium even from 3rd party vendors. 2GB is more than enough for this market's intended market.
Absolutely. My MBP 17" (2.16 Core Duo) maxes out at the 2GB that I have in it. I've had this machine since June 2006, and it works just beautifully and efficiently for all my needs (incl. some major-league data crunching).
"Even so, the Air isn’t for everyone. Bargain hunters, feature counters and people who don’t see the value of elegance . . ."
Wow - that so perfectly sums it up. People who don't see the value of elegance. I will have to use that the next time somebody makes an anti-Apple comment.
Dude: "Hey man Apple sucks."
Me: "Well obviously YOU don't see the value of elegance, troglodyte."
I like this quote from the NYT article:
"Even so, the Air isn’t for everyone. Bargain hunters, feature counters and people who don’t see the value of elegance . . ."
Wow - that so perfectly sums it up. People who don't see the value of elegance. I will have to use that the next time somebody makes an anti-Apple comment.
Dude: "Hey man Apple sucks."
Me: "Well obviously YOU don't see the value of elegance, troglodyte."
So what Pouge and you are saying is that the Air isn't for anyone that the feature set doesn't suit. Duh. Much more interesting is an examination of the feature set that Apple has chosen. As I've already said, there are only three advantages to the Air over the MacBook: looks, volume and weight. The costs are ports, CD drive, memory expansion, removable battery, stereo speakers, HD issues and price.
Any design is a trade-off and any product has its own market with some people liking it and not. The question is has Apple gone too far in one direction, delivering a very attractive machine that is less practical? I think the big mistake they made is that they didn't reduce the footprint and it was almost solely for looks. The curving of the case yields a lot of unusable interior space around all the edges. Without it the machine might be less attractive, but have a smaller footprint. I think most people looking to buy in this category are more bothered by that than the other limitations, which most people will accept are required for a small machine.
So the question is, what do you prefer: pretty curves or reduced footprint?
So the question is, what do you prefer: pretty curves or reduced footprint?
Of course better curves. That's what attracted most of us to Mac and Mac OS at the first place.
Any design is a trade-off and any product has its own market with some people liking it and not. The question is has Apple gone too far in one direction, delivering a very attractive machine that is less practical?
That is an excellent question!
If we could end the chicken little hoo-raa perhaps we could have a thoughtfull converation about the intended market and Apple's uncanny history of either predicting the flow--or forcing the flow--of technological changes.
PS: Does the mono speaker bother anyone? I use noise canceling headphones while flying, even when not pumping sound through them to help me sleep in peace, so it's not a deal breaker for me. This, IMO, gives more evidence that the intended market is flyers.
So what Pouge and you are saying is that the Air isn't for anyone that the feature set doesn't suit. Duh.
I wasn't really commenting on the Air specifically - but rather people in general who never add the value of elegance when comparing or critiquing an Apple product. Apple haters and reviewers almost always do this.
Who is the Air for? Who cares? I mean really, who cares? That's Apples business and what differences does it make to anyone here? Buy if you like, don't buy if you don't.
PS: Does the mono speaker bother anyone? I use noise canceling headphones while flying, even when not pumping sound through them to help me sleep in peace, so it's not a deal breaker for me. This, IMO, gives more evidence that the intended market is flyers.
Not one bit. My MBP has stereo speakers, and my Tangerine iBook has a mono, and there is no usability difference between them
I am sure a simple way is for Apple to release a firmware update that will "bump" up the clock to 2.2Ghz or 2.4Ghz when plugged in. This would mean corresponding fan speed adjustments. Its easy to do. And I don't understand WHY apple did not do this on Day One!.
Are they "forcing" people to accept the compromises by being conservative ?. Maybe. I cant help but think they should have done more in terms of the hardware itself rather than hyping on design and thinness.