The Air doesn't have an optical drive because its a lightweight computer that doesn't have what it doesn't absolutely need, and its a second computer. Macbooks and MBP's are not, and are going to have optical drives for the forseeable future. When everybody is on super duper broadband speeds fast enough and/or memory sticks are cheap enough to replace films on DVD or High Def discs, CD albums, game discs, software discs etc. then optical disc drives won't be so necessary.
{sigh} onlooker, this is getting silly. I have never had a drive failure with any of my drives nor have I heard anyone bring this up as a potential concern or problem with HDM hardware. Not saying that it can?t happen, but it seems, in this case, that you are making the proverbial mountain out a simple molehill.
.
It was a major problem with the first superdrives was that at 2x speed burning a 4GB disk took hours. Burn 12 video conversions in a row, and your dead. It happened to me with 2x, and 4x superdrive models multiple times each. Now think about trying to burn 25, and 50 GB disks at 2X speed. How long do yo think that is going to last? Extended periods of heat from the laser is what burnt out the components in the 2x, and 4x drives. If your burning 25, and 50GB disks compared to 4GB at 2x it is going to take days, and that being the case Apple is just asking for a class action lawsuit once those start burning out. (And they will) Also, the drives cost $400.00. How much do you think Apple is going to charge you for one? It's going to be $100's cheaper to install it yourself regardless. Its in everyones best interest to buy and install the drive yourself. Apple isn't making excuses, and Apple is not Mommy. You don't need them to hold your hand to put a drive in your computer. If you want it just do it. End of discussion.
The Air doesn't have an optical drive because its a lightweight computer that doesn't have what it doesn't absolutely need, and its a second computer. Macbooks and MBP's are not, and are going to have optical drives for the forseeable future. When everybody is on super duper broadband speeds fast enough and/or memory sticks are cheap enough to replace films on DVD or High Def discs, CD albums, game discs, software discs etc. then optical disc drives won't be so necessary.
who say's macbook air is a second computer?
i never said the optical drive was dead, i questioned whether in-built drives for notebooks were...the difference is you can still use one you just have to plug it in (and lug it around if you so choose).
personally I would prefer for a more slimline pro without a built-in optical drive. i rarely use the thing so would not miss it as a built-in device. would i buy a slimline external superdrive? Maybe...but it would gather dust for most the year.
and to the idiot who was scared that apple reps might read this post and actually think about it...grow up!
There seems to be a concerted effort by both Microsoft and Apple to kill optical media in favor of digital downloads. That?s great for their financial bottom-lines, but bad for the rest of us (at least at this stage of media storage development). Apple has really disappointed me in this regard. Where are the Blu-ray drives that Apple has talked about integrating into their computers since Macworld 2005? Where are the software upgrades that will allow us to record our high definition video to HDM? There seems to be a conflict of interest within Apple regarding the business direction it should take. It is thinking less like a computer company and more like a downloadable Blockbuster for the ?Y? generation.
No thanks. We are not there yet. As a creative professional specializing in photography and video, I NEED optical media for archiving my content as well as burning video for personal and professional use. There are simply too many reasons that would require me to use my optical media device.
I hate to say this, but I personally hope the MBA and AppleTV fails miserably. Not because I think they are poor ideas, but because Apple has lost sight of what the consumers want/need versus what they and Microsoft are trying to force on us.
lol, how should a computer company think? apple aren't just a company for photo and video professionals...get over it.
if they dropped the in-built support you'd just plug an external drive in. Need a blu-ray drive, buy an external one...
and I think AppleTV (the service) will be a big success....but that's probably ridiculous too
a single 4GB disk at 2X burn speed took Over 2 hours to burn. Imaging trying to burn a 25 or 50 GB disk. The drive will likely be dead after just a few disks.
2X Blu-Ray is not the same speed as 2X DVD. 16x DVD is 21MBps, 1X Blu-Ray is 36MBps.
A standard 25GB Blu-Ray will burn in just over 20 minutes at 4X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerSix
Additionally, my primary anger towards Apple is not its lack of hardware support, but software.
It took Apple well over 2 years to even support UDF 1.5 - a purely software issue that was fixed in Leopard. Their software-based media support is appalling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerSix
as a Final Cut Studio user, that routinely edits HD video, to have no means to burn the final product to HD disc is unacceptable. What good is editing in HD if there is no way to view it on my HDTV?
It is entirely unacceptable. When film makes can easily spend thousands on a camera, a $400 Blu-Ray drive is nothing for the benefits it offers.
Third party manufacturers as usual are left to make up for Apple's deficiencies:
Toast 8 with an MCE drive - likely data burning only, not for HD movies. This support should be built in already in one of the most popular video editing packages in the world and it's inexcusable that it's not. When professionals need to get work done, you just can't rely on Apple.
i never said the optical drive was dead, i questioned whether in-built drives for notebooks were...the difference is you can still use one you just have to plug it in (and lug it around if you so choose).
personally I would prefer for a more slimline pro without a built-in optical drive. i rarely use the thing so would not miss it as a built-in device. would i buy a slimline external superdrive? Maybe...but it would gather dust for most the year.
and to the idiot who was scared that apple reps might read this post and actually think about it...grow up!
The basic appeal of the Air is to people who already have a more powerful machine and can take full advantage of the Air's portability while not making any big sacrifices.
It doesn't *have* to be someone's only computer, but it seems targeted toward those who already have one.
I too, could live without an optical drive most of the time, but only because I've got an iMac at home as well. On a personal note though, since Apple now already offers a ultra-slim solution, I'd prefer they did *not* try to do that to the entire line. I wouldn't mind seeing an enclosure with more curvature to it (like the Air) since it would probably enhance the overall strength and rigidity of the machine.
Macbook - All your computing needs satisfied in a compact, rugged machine at a good price.
Macbook Pro - All your computing needs satisfied with additional goodies like discrete GPU/memory, Larger, higher resolution screens and more port options.
Macbook Air - Light and thin machine to complement an existing desktop solution or can be used as a sole solution with the addition of an external optical.
• 2X Blu-Ray is not the same speed as 2X DVD. 16x DVD is 21MBps, 1X Blu-Ray is 36MBps.
• A standard 25GB Blu-Ray will burn in just over 20 minutes at 4X.
.....................
All good news. I still think the price is too high on the media, and the burners though. Although I am curious to know how much the 4x drives cost when the 2X drives are $400.00?
[EDIT}
Quote:
The tray loading 4x Blu-ray drive is priced at a special introductory US$579.95
That's still way to much for me. Maybe ranger, or re-con, or rutabaga or what ever his iName is wants one.
just cause you dont need optical drive, doesn mean majority of people dont need it. Zzzzzzzz. Besides having to bring a optical drive and plug it in a USB port is a hassle and take note that Apple laptop doesn have that many USB ports to begin with
lol, how should a computer company think? apple aren't just a company for photo and video professionals.
How should a computer company think? I already addressed that.
And who said that Apple was only for photo and video professionals? I was merely using examples from my personal experience on why optical drives are still a requirement in today?s world. Obviously, your mileage may vary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinf
...get over it.
Riiiiight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinf
if they dropped the in-built support you'd just plug an external drive in. Need a blu-ray drive, buy an external one...
The MacBook Air definitely has that cool geeky factor, but in the long run you are sacrificing a lot in the name of portability. The computer is great if I am flying in coach, surfing the web or going down to Starbucks to work a school essay, but I don?t think I would want to lose my optical drive while on business trips or other unforeseen situations where a drive may be required.
Most customers spending between $1800 and $3100 for a laptop computer want a self-contained unit that performs the basic functions that we have been accustomed to expect. Most of us don?t use our drives that often, but it sure is great to know it's there when we do.
And in regards to plugging in an external drive ? doesn?t that somewhat defeat the purpose of having an uber-portable computer if I am now forced to lug around an external drive?
Look, I am as big an Apple supporter as the next guy, but sometimes we need to set aside our passions long enough to seriously analyze what is going on here. I am all about innovation and thinking outside the box, but this last Macworld was less about providing useful products/services that consumers need and more about moneymaking download schemes and increasing our dependence on additional Apple peripherals. In the MBA video that you can watch online, the presenter says that the computer is ?built for the wireless world. Instead of watching DVDs you can wireless rent movies from the iTunes store. Instead of backing up files to a stack of discs, you can wirelessly backup files to Time Capsule. With MacBook Air, you can even wirelessly access the optical drive of another Mac or PC to install applications.? Not surprisingly, each of those situations are built around a dependence of additional Apple products and services that an optical drive could have easily accomplished. Again, it's a situation where a company is providing what THEY want us to buy versus what WE need.
The only thing I saw from the conference that peaked my interest was the Time Capsule. Combining a wireless router with a means to routinely backup my system using Time Machine is a tool that could bring real value to a consumer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinf
and I think AppleTV (the service) will be a big success....but that's probably ridiculous too
AppleTV didn't work the first time. I doubt it will work a second. If it had 1080i/p support to view Quicktime movies, then I would definitely consider it, but at only 720, I don't think so.
Ridiculous? Probably. Let?s revisit these comments a year from now.
And is all you have is the one computer your fubar, plus your answer isn't a solution it's an excuse. The idea of loosing optical is unrealistic, and exceedingly expensive. Optical will switch to Blu Ray not to Zer0 optical.
Wow, throughout this thread, you (and wheelhot) really seem to be taking this personally. Here's something personal for you: it is "losing" not "loosing."
One must be VERY careful archiving data to CD/DVD Recordable media. I encourage you to read the NIST study on the very topic as they found dramatic differences in the quality of recordable optical media. After recording, some were found to have a shelf-life of tens of years (analyzing the disc and projecting forward) and others degraded to data loss after only 100 hours.
I will say this: there will be a time that Apple laptops do not have an optical drive. I don't know when, but it will happen--it is heading down the same path as the floppy. Personally, I think we are a few years away from that happening, but sometimes with Apple, they push at their own pace.
The only advantage from my opinion in not having a built-in optical is that you can upgrade your optical drive when it need (such as when the blu-ray start becoming popular). But like I said, its inconvinient that you need to bring your external hard disk everywhere and the chance of you forgetting to bring it back home after your holidays or business trip is possible.
And to not make war, yeah im not supporting removable optical drive and non-removable batteries for non ultraportable laptops. The only reason why I have the hinch that Apple might offer future laptops(non-portable) cause they want to get it thinner so more people will be attracted and go "Wow! Thats freakishly thin!" to it hence increase their sales.
Comments
{sigh} onlooker, this is getting silly. I have never had a drive failure with any of my drives nor have I heard anyone bring this up as a potential concern or problem with HDM hardware. Not saying that it can?t happen, but it seems, in this case, that you are making the proverbial mountain out a simple molehill.
.
It was a major problem with the first superdrives was that at 2x speed burning a 4GB disk took hours. Burn 12 video conversions in a row, and your dead. It happened to me with 2x, and 4x superdrive models multiple times each. Now think about trying to burn 25, and 50 GB disks at 2X speed. How long do yo think that is going to last? Extended periods of heat from the laser is what burnt out the components in the 2x, and 4x drives. If your burning 25, and 50GB disks compared to 4GB at 2x it is going to take days, and that being the case Apple is just asking for a class action lawsuit once those start burning out. (And they will) Also, the drives cost $400.00. How much do you think Apple is going to charge you for one? It's going to be $100's cheaper to install it yourself regardless. Its in everyones best interest to buy and install the drive yourself. Apple isn't making excuses, and Apple is not Mommy. You don't need them to hold your hand to put a drive in your computer. If you want it just do it. End of discussion.
The Air doesn't have an optical drive because its a lightweight computer that doesn't have what it doesn't absolutely need, and its a second computer. Macbooks and MBP's are not, and are going to have optical drives for the forseeable future. When everybody is on super duper broadband speeds fast enough and/or memory sticks are cheap enough to replace films on DVD or High Def discs, CD albums, game discs, software discs etc. then optical disc drives won't be so necessary.
who say's macbook air is a second computer?
i never said the optical drive was dead, i questioned whether in-built drives for notebooks were...the difference is you can still use one you just have to plug it in (and lug it around if you so choose).
personally I would prefer for a more slimline pro without a built-in optical drive. i rarely use the thing so would not miss it as a built-in device. would i buy a slimline external superdrive? Maybe...but it would gather dust for most the year.
and to the idiot who was scared that apple reps might read this post and actually think about it...grow up!
What a ridiculous idea.
There seems to be a concerted effort by both Microsoft and Apple to kill optical media in favor of digital downloads. That?s great for their financial bottom-lines, but bad for the rest of us (at least at this stage of media storage development). Apple has really disappointed me in this regard. Where are the Blu-ray drives that Apple has talked about integrating into their computers since Macworld 2005? Where are the software upgrades that will allow us to record our high definition video to HDM? There seems to be a conflict of interest within Apple regarding the business direction it should take. It is thinking less like a computer company and more like a downloadable Blockbuster for the ?Y? generation.
No thanks. We are not there yet. As a creative professional specializing in photography and video, I NEED optical media for archiving my content as well as burning video for personal and professional use. There are simply too many reasons that would require me to use my optical media device.
I hate to say this, but I personally hope the MBA and AppleTV fails miserably. Not because I think they are poor ideas, but because Apple has lost sight of what the consumers want/need versus what they and Microsoft are trying to force on us.
lol, how should a computer company think? apple aren't just a company for photo and video professionals...get over it.
if they dropped the in-built support you'd just plug an external drive in. Need a blu-ray drive, buy an external one...
and I think AppleTV (the service) will be a big success....but that's probably ridiculous too
Blu ray drives are not practical yet.
More practical than SSD drives.
#1 Blu Ray only burns at 2X speed.
4x drives are already out and 8x on the way.
a single 4GB disk at 2X burn speed took Over 2 hours to burn. Imaging trying to burn a 25 or 50 GB disk. The drive will likely be dead after just a few disks.
2X Blu-Ray is not the same speed as 2X DVD. 16x DVD is 21MBps, 1X Blu-Ray is 36MBps.
A standard 25GB Blu-Ray will burn in just over 20 minutes at 4X.
Additionally, my primary anger towards Apple is not its lack of hardware support, but software.
It took Apple well over 2 years to even support UDF 1.5 - a purely software issue that was fixed in Leopard. Their software-based media support is appalling.
as a Final Cut Studio user, that routinely edits HD video, to have no means to burn the final product to HD disc is unacceptable. What good is editing in HD if there is no way to view it on my HDTV?
It is entirely unacceptable. When film makes can easily spend thousands on a camera, a $400 Blu-Ray drive is nothing for the benefits it offers.
Third party manufacturers as usual are left to make up for Apple's deficiencies:
http://www.mcetech.com/blu-ray/
Toast 8 with an MCE drive - likely data burning only, not for HD movies. This support should be built in already in one of the most popular video editing packages in the world and it's inexcusable that it's not. When professionals need to get work done, you just can't rely on Apple.
who say's macbook air is a second computer?
i never said the optical drive was dead, i questioned whether in-built drives for notebooks were...the difference is you can still use one you just have to plug it in (and lug it around if you so choose).
personally I would prefer for a more slimline pro without a built-in optical drive. i rarely use the thing so would not miss it as a built-in device. would i buy a slimline external superdrive? Maybe...but it would gather dust for most the year.
and to the idiot who was scared that apple reps might read this post and actually think about it...grow up!
The basic appeal of the Air is to people who already have a more powerful machine and can take full advantage of the Air's portability while not making any big sacrifices.
It doesn't *have* to be someone's only computer, but it seems targeted toward those who already have one.
I too, could live without an optical drive most of the time, but only because I've got an iMac at home as well. On a personal note though, since Apple now already offers a ultra-slim solution, I'd prefer they did *not* try to do that to the entire line. I wouldn't mind seeing an enclosure with more curvature to it (like the Air) since it would probably enhance the overall strength and rigidity of the machine.
Macbook - All your computing needs satisfied in a compact, rugged machine at a good price.
Macbook Pro - All your computing needs satisfied with additional goodies like discrete GPU/memory, Larger, higher resolution screens and more port options.
Macbook Air - Light and thin machine to complement an existing desktop solution or can be used as a sole solution with the addition of an external optical.
..........
• 4x drives are already out and 8x on the way.
• 2X Blu-Ray is not the same speed as 2X DVD. 16x DVD is 21MBps, 1X Blu-Ray is 36MBps.
• A standard 25GB Blu-Ray will burn in just over 20 minutes at 4X.
.....................
All good news. I still think the price is too high on the media, and the burners though. Although I am curious to know how much the 4x drives cost when the 2X drives are $400.00?
[EDIT}
The tray loading 4x Blu-ray drive is priced at a special introductory US$579.95
That's still way to much for me. Maybe ranger, or re-con, or rutabaga or what ever his iName is wants one.
lol, how should a computer company think? apple aren't just a company for photo and video professionals.
How should a computer company think? I already addressed that.
And who said that Apple was only for photo and video professionals? I was merely using examples from my personal experience on why optical drives are still a requirement in today?s world. Obviously, your mileage may vary.
...get over it.
Riiiiight!
if they dropped the in-built support you'd just plug an external drive in. Need a blu-ray drive, buy an external one...
The MacBook Air definitely has that cool geeky factor, but in the long run you are sacrificing a lot in the name of portability. The computer is great if I am flying in coach, surfing the web or going down to Starbucks to work a school essay, but I don?t think I would want to lose my optical drive while on business trips or other unforeseen situations where a drive may be required.
Most customers spending between $1800 and $3100 for a laptop computer want a self-contained unit that performs the basic functions that we have been accustomed to expect. Most of us don?t use our drives that often, but it sure is great to know it's there when we do.
And in regards to plugging in an external drive ? doesn?t that somewhat defeat the purpose of having an uber-portable computer if I am now forced to lug around an external drive?
Look, I am as big an Apple supporter as the next guy, but sometimes we need to set aside our passions long enough to seriously analyze what is going on here. I am all about innovation and thinking outside the box, but this last Macworld was less about providing useful products/services that consumers need and more about moneymaking download schemes and increasing our dependence on additional Apple peripherals. In the MBA video that you can watch online, the presenter says that the computer is ?built for the wireless world. Instead of watching DVDs you can wireless rent movies from the iTunes store. Instead of backing up files to a stack of discs, you can wirelessly backup files to Time Capsule. With MacBook Air, you can even wirelessly access the optical drive of another Mac or PC to install applications.? Not surprisingly, each of those situations are built around a dependence of additional Apple products and services that an optical drive could have easily accomplished. Again, it's a situation where a company is providing what THEY want us to buy versus what WE need.
The only thing I saw from the conference that peaked my interest was the Time Capsule. Combining a wireless router with a means to routinely backup my system using Time Machine is a tool that could bring real value to a consumer.
and I think AppleTV (the service) will be a big success....but that's probably ridiculous too
AppleTV didn't work the first time. I doubt it will work a second. If it had 1080i/p support to view Quicktime movies, then I would definitely consider it, but at only 720, I don't think so.
Ridiculous? Probably. Let?s revisit these comments a year from now.
However, hope is eternal.
Maybe ranger, or re-con, or rutabaga or what ever his iName is wants one.
Classy smart ass cheap shot.
Oh yeah and there is no optical drive that comes with when you buy the MBA, you must buy one for $99. See how inconvenience this is
Not really because I most likely wouldn't buy one for a while.
I take it that you're not in support of the removal of optical drives?
I'll have to start another thread titled "Death of plug-in batteries" just so you can vent further.
And is all you have is the one computer your fubar, plus your answer isn't a solution it's an excuse. The idea of loosing optical is unrealistic, and exceedingly expensive. Optical will switch to Blu Ray not to Zer0 optical.
Wow, throughout this thread, you (and wheelhot) really seem to be taking this personally. Here's something personal for you: it is "losing" not "loosing."
One must be VERY careful archiving data to CD/DVD Recordable media. I encourage you to read the NIST study on the very topic as they found dramatic differences in the quality of recordable optical media. After recording, some were found to have a shelf-life of tens of years (analyzing the disc and projecting forward) and others degraded to data loss after only 100 hours.
I will say this: there will be a time that Apple laptops do not have an optical drive. I don't know when, but it will happen--it is heading down the same path as the floppy. Personally, I think we are a few years away from that happening, but sometimes with Apple, they push at their own pace.
And to not make war, yeah im not supporting removable optical drive and non-removable batteries for non ultraportable laptops. The only reason why I have the hinch that Apple might offer future laptops(non-portable) cause they want to get it thinner so more people will be attracted and go "Wow! Thats freakishly thin!" to it hence increase their sales.