Anyone see the Forbes article about Apple's quarter? I think they might have hit a new low.
Forbes is the People of financial rags, trying to spike readership with their top 50 wealthiest whatever lists. It's losing hits/sales to both the sassier blogs, that do the nouveau-irreverence much better, and the more traditional serious pubs (Economist, WSJ, even Fortune).
Relax guys, Apple is continuing to add more and revenue streams, all the while virtualization is greasing the rails towards doubling their market share. And all they need is another year or two of 30%ish growth to do that.
Call me in 18 mos.
The problem is that Wall Street is still pessimistic by default in regard to Apple: this is not so for the other big players in the same industries. You think they'd glance at their iPhones for a second and think it over. Apple is the only stock I own that can post great numbers and still drop 11 percent.
Apple can tumble itself right back up if it had introduced something like the darn xMac. This is so retarded, there is such a large market for such a device.
Most analysts don't guess, they predict based on a wide range of sources, like meteorologists (who have gotten things wrong in the past). Of course there are some good analysts and bad analysts but for the most part, across the market, what you call "guesses" aren't that far off.
The market had of course factored in the analyst's estimates into the stock price, so it is only logical that we see a drop based on Apple being unlikely to meet those estimates, after all if we didn't then the market value would be "wrong" and the stock overvalued (of course it might still be overvalued or undervalued in what is an inefficient market). Bear in mind that if we look at the P/E ratio AAPL is a growth stock, so movement is not going to be based on the company merely doing better year on year.
So, what you're saying is that because for the most part the value of a stock is based on what the market considers to be the most likely future for the company which determines the supply and demand for the shares, investing in the market is merely gambling? Now, I'm not going to disagree with that but you have to draw a line between what is gambling and what isn't, after all which investments don't carry risk? Even putting money in a bank could be considered gambling.
But most importantly, your reasoning for it being gambling seems to be that because the analysts were "guessing" it's down to luck? That would of course deny the reality that there are a large number of consistently successful players in the market, showing that in this zero sum game it is possible to be more adept than the competition.
Gamblers consider factors from a variety of sources and make predictions based on track records, history and future odds. There is very little difference in what most analysts are doing than in what a bookmaker does in Las Vegas. They are setting odds on what a company will do AND like the bookmaker, the "analyst" makes money one way or the other. I've seen aapl completely blow expectations out of the water again and again and have seen it subsequently drop a number of those times. I'm sure a number of analcysts--I mean, analysts-- shorted aapl on large sales and pushed it down in after-hours in small lots. Apple could have doubled it's sales and it still would've dropped. The house always wins.
Its not an ultraportable, but it is trying to woo people away from ultraportables. How well that'll work, remains to be seen.
Hmm,I suppose you have the official definition of what an ultraportable is. Any deviation from said definition disqualifies the "official" ultraportable title.
Quote:
It's just so very Steve. Let's not give people what they say they want, but rather something that I think is better. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But you gotta give him props for the massive juevos.
That's a clearly negative way to look at it. Who made the rule that things can only be done one way. Or just because everyone else does something a certain way means that their is no other way to do it? How would innovation have come about for anything if people thought this way?
In developing a product Apple's way of thinking is to solve the problem with a different solution than others have devised. Inspite of the fact that everytime Apple introduces a new product pundits claim it won't work because of this or that. But over the past few years it has worked more than not.
Hmm,I suppose you have the official definition of what an ultraportable is. Any deviation from said definition disqualifies the "official" ultraportable title.
Teno, the footprint for the MBAir is the same as it is for a regular MacBook. Just because it's light and thin doesn't make it 'ultraportable'. You still have to worry about these pesky quantities known as "width" and "depth".
You know, two out of the three physical dimensions.
Don't get butthurt about it, it is still a very nice notebook. And it may lure a few folks away from true ultraportables.
Quote:
That's a clearly negative way to look at it. .
Not really, unless you're implying that a realistic assessment of Steve and Apple is inherently negative. I don't believe it is.
Fact is, Steve sometimes doesn't give people what they want, sometimes Steve gives people what Steve thinks they should want. And yes, sometimes it works out great (iPod), and other times, not so well (G4 Cube, Apple TV).
Noting this is neither positive or negative. It is simply what Apple does. On the whole, I'm happy they do it, but it is at times a risky strategy, because you can't always get people to want what you think they should want.
Relax guys, Apple is continuing to add more and revenue streams, all the while virtualization is greasing the rails towards doubling their market share. And all they need is another year or two of 30%ish growth to do that.
Call me in 18 mos.
You are correct, sir, 100%. These fucking whores on Wall Street are in this for the short term only. The faster they vacate Apple trading the better. The worst part is that these "experts" (read: fucking nitwits) have yet to recognize that apple stopped being a technology company in 2005 and started being a consumer electronics company instead.
They're still being lumped in with Intel and MSFT, instead of Sony and Panasonic. If fucking Sony had shown 1/2 this kind of growth their stock would quadruple.
Teno, the footprint for the MBAir is the same as it is for a regular MacBook. Just because it's light and thin doesn't make it 'ultraportable'. You still have to worry about these pesky quantities known as "width" and "depth".
The foot print is larger to incorporate a larger screen and keyboard. People would value less weight in portability more than a inch less in length or width.
Quote:
Fact is, Steve sometimes doesn't give people what they want, sometimes Steve gives people what Steve thinks they should want. And yes, sometimes it works out great (iPod), and other times, not so well (G4 Cube, Apple TV).
The works out great column is larger than only the iPod. Is the Cube forever your subsequent whipping boy to pull out as the example of Apple's fallibility?
Is their no realization that the Cube was seven years ago. No Mac has been in that position since.
The foot print is larger to incorporate a larger screen and keyboard.
Well, duh. But at the same time, that footprint makes it not a true ultraportable. It's engineering... you don't get something for nothing.
Not the big deal you seem worried it may be, considering that Apple thinks its solution is 'better' than an ultraportable. For some ppl, it may be. We'll see.
Quote:
The works out great column is larger than only the iPod. Is the Cube forever your subsequent whipping boy to pull out as the example of Apple's fallibility?
Is their no realization that the Cube was seven years ago.
Sigh. Teno, there's no other way to say this except as follows:
How the hell did the Air enter the discussion? From what I've been told, the first manuf run is already booked, and the flash variant is more popular than expected. A real failure it is ...
How the hell did the Air enter the discussion? From what I've been told, the first manuf run is already booked, and the flash variant is more popular than expected. A real failure it is ...
Oh, Teno's just upset because I pointed out that the MBAir isn't a true ultraportable. Whatev. Nothing can be all things to all ppl, much as we might hope otherwise.
I do hope it sells well, even beyond launch. I'd like to see my shares go back up, asap.
You are correct, sir, 100%. These fucking whores on Wall Street are in this for the short term only. The faster they vacate Apple trading the better. The worst part is that these "experts" (read: fucking nitwits) have yet to recognize that apple stopped being a technology company in 2005 and started being a consumer electronics company instead.
They're still being lumped in with Intel and MSFT, instead of Sony and Panasonic. If fucking Sony had shown 1/2 this kind of growth their stock would quadruple.
I love Apple, their innovations, the eco-conscious efforts that they are now putting into place, and the progressive mindset that has made them one of the most inspiring corporations in the world. Regardless of what one might believe about the stock market and gambling, analyst predictions, or the day-to-day activity of this stock, this is a company that has fundamentally changed the way people live because of the tools they have created and the ideas they have put forth. A 12-year old kid can get a mac laptop that not only comes with an arsenal of tools for creating music, pictures, and essentially expressing whatever he or she wants to express (essential to teenage survival), but in some cases, actually helps organize thoughts and all the crap we are supposed to deal with each day.
When I look at the trends they have set and the direction of other tech companies, I have to say there is no comparison. We are moving towards an Apple world. They are on fire. Screw the numbers, the analysts, and everyone else who is trying to squeeze a buck out of this company for a short term gain. Pay attention to what they are doing. They have moved from a computer company to being a LIFESTYLE company. We're talking about generations of people growing up with buying an iPod as quickly as buying a CD player back in the day. If you want music, you're getting an iPod, period. And let's not forget movie rentals, which not only will have higher profit margins than Netflix, but will also contribute significantly to less waste (no paper, DVD, or postage required).
I guess what I am saying is that in the same way Mac users really don't want to take the time to convince PC fanatics why Apple products and ideas are just better, a real investor in this company does not need to explain this to analysts or anyone else. The company is guiding conservatively and being punished for this. Ridiculous. Corporate greed is angry with the hippies at Apple - how dare Apple guide conservatively! These investors don't give a crap about Apple. They just want to make as much money as possible, as quickly as possible.
I believe in this company and have continued holding and buying on dips since 2003, beating out every other pick I've ever followed. Read the balance sheets, crunch the numbers, whatever - at the end of the day, you are investing in the future and the people shorting and yelling at Apple when they can't produce what they want will not live long into the future because they wind up dying of the stress trying to make a killing, instead of being a real investor.
Of course, we cannot just be blindly in love with Apple and kiss the butt of Mr. Jobs. We must also realize that Apple is not an island - what affects the broader market will always affect Apple. In a perfect world, all companies would be run as well as Apple, but they are not, and now the pathetic lots that lost a lot on other bets need to prostitute their shares of Apple.
What we can do is quit bitching and complaining about the stock every week. Look at the mindset - look at the things they have released and the patents they apply for. Look at how their products affect society and generations, not just bottom lines.
I do try to make predictions because at some point, you need to decide how long you want to stay in any company. The phone was certainly the easiest one - I'm sure lots of people figured they would go that route as soon as the iPod came out.
My next prediction is that in the not-to-distant future, they will be designing ways to help companies who require insane amounts of server streaming (youtube and facebook).
Perhaps it will be something with final cut pro and Mac servers, perhaps it will be new compression formats for video - whatever. The actual prediction is not as important as the fact that this is a company that inspires me and millions of other investors to brainstorm and try to predict what they will come up with next. No other company does that. We can't say for certain what the next ideas will be, which is part of the excitement of Apple, but I guarantee you, it will once again confound the minds of everyone stuck on their island, thinking about the present, instead of the future...
I remember just before Steve cam back to APPLE in 97' the stock was around $14, i was 23 yrs old, I thought that if i had to buy shares APPL would be my choice.. Big guns like Al Walid bought an enormous chunk of Apple stock, i can only imagine today +10 yrs later in how much they are sitting, it's rare to find people like you "bigapple" who just gets what apple is, i'm thinking you're one of those investors that deposit your confidance on a company and let the people on it do the magic, for the last 10 yrs or so has been Steve Jobs..
IMO i think we're back on 1997' the time is perfect to buy "once again" some serious appl stock, despite not having that much more money that i had then, i'm gonna go ahead and buy me some of this electronic sugar and sit on it for 10 more years and see what will be the outcome, steve may not be at the helm of Apple by that time, but i'm sure that his legacy will live on.
This just fundamentally proves that the stock market is legalized gambling. . .
And I'll up your "gambling" to "taxpayer-subsidized gambling" -- FTW!
That's right. When you lose, you deduct it straight off your income, and your winnings (aka capital gains) are taxed at a ridiculously low rate, far below that of income earned my performing useful work.
And anytime the government passes on collecting taxes to encourage certain activities like donating to the poor (or any charities for that matter), buying a home or losing money on Wall Street, it shifts the burden of financing our government to everyone else.
The 15% "flat tax" on all capital gains is blatantly unfair to those of us who realize either a tiny fraction of our income that way compared to the amount we earn by the sweat of our brow, and to those who have none at all. I would hope some good Democrat would start talking up the notion of adding some progressivity to the rates at which capital gains are taxed. It's only fair.
In a sketchy market, anything with a luxury shine is going to go down first. If you miss even this consensus silliness in a sketchy market, the stock will get Hammered!
Good Stocks in Bad Markets make for fantastic buying opportunities, ala Proximityeffect.
Apple still has the story. This drop is procyclical traders and people getting shaken out on volatility.
Isn't that true of pretty much any new Apple product these days (Euro iPhone aside)? Steve could announce his laundry list and it'd sell well... at launch, anyway.
The real test isn't initial orders to the hardcore Apple faithful, but how well sales hold up long-term. But I am rooting for the MBAir, even though it isn't a true subnotebook. Its just so durn 'sexay'.
.
but the difference with the euro iphone is that, unlike in the US, the iphone can't be bought @ apple directly! thus making it impossible to give it as a gift! one has to give a coupon or something like that... an iphone in a box is not an option as a present!!! i think o2, t-mobile and orange underestimated the adverse effect of that shortsighted policy! the iphone can olny be activated via itunes anyway... to try to keep sales within the GSM provider stores is capping their sales by @ least 20%!
and on top the apple stock has had a fabulous run in the last years... stuff like that can't go on forever... people get too greedy and buy stocks with money they don't have... much like the original problem of buying houses with money loaned on their own houses which are mostly not paid off... a domino effect...
Comments
Anyone see the Forbes article about Apple's quarter? I think they might have hit a new low.
Forbes is the People of financial rags, trying to spike readership with their top 50 wealthiest whatever lists. It's losing hits/sales to both the sassier blogs, that do the nouveau-irreverence much better, and the more traditional serious pubs (Economist, WSJ, even Fortune).
Relax guys, Apple is continuing to add more and revenue streams, all the while virtualization is greasing the rails towards doubling their market share. And all they need is another year or two of 30%ish growth to do that.
Call me in 18 mos.
The problem is that Wall Street is still pessimistic by default in regard to Apple: this is not so for the other big players in the same industries. You think they'd glance at their iPhones for a second and think it over. Apple is the only stock I own that can post great numbers and still drop 11 percent.
Time to buy
Exactly.
Most analysts don't guess, they predict based on a wide range of sources, like meteorologists (who have gotten things wrong in the past). Of course there are some good analysts and bad analysts but for the most part, across the market, what you call "guesses" aren't that far off.
The market had of course factored in the analyst's estimates into the stock price, so it is only logical that we see a drop based on Apple being unlikely to meet those estimates, after all if we didn't then the market value would be "wrong" and the stock overvalued (of course it might still be overvalued or undervalued in what is an inefficient market). Bear in mind that if we look at the P/E ratio AAPL is a growth stock, so movement is not going to be based on the company merely doing better year on year.
So, what you're saying is that because for the most part the value of a stock is based on what the market considers to be the most likely future for the company which determines the supply and demand for the shares, investing in the market is merely gambling? Now, I'm not going to disagree with that but you have to draw a line between what is gambling and what isn't, after all which investments don't carry risk? Even putting money in a bank could be considered gambling.
But most importantly, your reasoning for it being gambling seems to be that because the analysts were "guessing" it's down to luck? That would of course deny the reality that there are a large number of consistently successful players in the market, showing that in this zero sum game it is possible to be more adept than the competition.
Gamblers consider factors from a variety of sources and make predictions based on track records, history and future odds. There is very little difference in what most analysts are doing than in what a bookmaker does in Las Vegas. They are setting odds on what a company will do AND like the bookmaker, the "analyst" makes money one way or the other. I've seen aapl completely blow expectations out of the water again and again and have seen it subsequently drop a number of those times. I'm sure a number of analcysts--I mean, analysts-- shorted aapl on large sales and pushed it down in after-hours in small lots. Apple could have doubled it's sales and it still would've dropped. The house always wins.
Its not an ultraportable, but it is trying to woo people away from ultraportables. How well that'll work, remains to be seen.
Hmm,I suppose you have the official definition of what an ultraportable is. Any deviation from said definition disqualifies the "official" ultraportable title.
It's just so very Steve. Let's not give people what they say they want, but rather something that I think is better. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But you gotta give him props for the massive juevos.
That's a clearly negative way to look at it. Who made the rule that things can only be done one way. Or just because everyone else does something a certain way means that their is no other way to do it? How would innovation have come about for anything if people thought this way?
In developing a product Apple's way of thinking is to solve the problem with a different solution than others have devised. Inspite of the fact that everytime Apple introduces a new product pundits claim it won't work because of this or that. But over the past few years it has worked more than not.
Hmm,I suppose you have the official definition of what an ultraportable is. Any deviation from said definition disqualifies the "official" ultraportable title.
Teno, the footprint for the MBAir is the same as it is for a regular MacBook. Just because it's light and thin doesn't make it 'ultraportable'. You still have to worry about these pesky quantities known as "width" and "depth".
You know, two out of the three physical dimensions.
Don't get butthurt about it, it is still a very nice notebook. And it may lure a few folks away from true ultraportables.
That's a clearly negative way to look at it. .
Not really, unless you're implying that a realistic assessment of Steve and Apple is inherently negative. I don't believe it is.
Fact is, Steve sometimes doesn't give people what they want, sometimes Steve gives people what Steve thinks they should want. And yes, sometimes it works out great (iPod), and other times, not so well (G4 Cube, Apple TV).
Noting this is neither positive or negative. It is simply what Apple does. On the whole, I'm happy they do it, but it is at times a risky strategy, because you can't always get people to want what you think they should want.
.
Relax guys, Apple is continuing to add more and revenue streams, all the while virtualization is greasing the rails towards doubling their market share. And all they need is another year or two of 30%ish growth to do that.
Call me in 18 mos.
You are correct, sir, 100%. These fucking whores on Wall Street are in this for the short term only. The faster they vacate Apple trading the better. The worst part is that these "experts" (read: fucking nitwits) have yet to recognize that apple stopped being a technology company in 2005 and started being a consumer electronics company instead.
They're still being lumped in with Intel and MSFT, instead of Sony and Panasonic. If fucking Sony had shown 1/2 this kind of growth their stock would quadruple.
Wall Street Whores. Need I say more?
Teno, the footprint for the MBAir is the same as it is for a regular MacBook. Just because it's light and thin doesn't make it 'ultraportable'. You still have to worry about these pesky quantities known as "width" and "depth".
The foot print is larger to incorporate a larger screen and keyboard. People would value less weight in portability more than a inch less in length or width.
Fact is, Steve sometimes doesn't give people what they want, sometimes Steve gives people what Steve thinks they should want. And yes, sometimes it works out great (iPod), and other times, not so well (G4 Cube, Apple TV).
The works out great column is larger than only the iPod. Is the Cube forever your subsequent whipping boy to pull out as the example of Apple's fallibility?
Is their no realization that the Cube was seven years ago. No Mac has been in that position since.
The foot print is larger to incorporate a larger screen and keyboard.
Well, duh. But at the same time, that footprint makes it not a true ultraportable. It's engineering... you don't get something for nothing.
Not the big deal you seem worried it may be, considering that Apple thinks its solution is 'better' than an ultraportable. For some ppl, it may be. We'll see.
The works out great column is larger than only the iPod. Is the Cube forever your subsequent whipping boy to pull out as the example of Apple's fallibility?
Is their no realization that the Cube was seven years ago.
Sigh. Teno, there's no other way to say this except as follows:
.
How the hell did the Air enter the discussion? From what I've been told, the first manuf run is already booked, and the flash variant is more popular than expected. A real failure it is ...
Oh, Teno's just upset because I pointed out that the MBAir isn't a true ultraportable. Whatev. Nothing can be all things to all ppl, much as we might hope otherwise.
I do hope it sells well, even beyond launch. I'd like to see my shares go back up, asap.
.
You are correct, sir, 100%. These fucking whores on Wall Street are in this for the short term only. The faster they vacate Apple trading the better. The worst part is that these "experts" (read: fucking nitwits) have yet to recognize that apple stopped being a technology company in 2005 and started being a consumer electronics company instead.
They're still being lumped in with Intel and MSFT, instead of Sony and Panasonic. If fucking Sony had shown 1/2 this kind of growth their stock would quadruple.
Wall Street Whores. Need I say more?
Thank you, thank you, and THANK you!
My thoughts exactly.
I love Apple, their innovations, the eco-conscious efforts that they are now putting into place, and the progressive mindset that has made them one of the most inspiring corporations in the world. Regardless of what one might believe about the stock market and gambling, analyst predictions, or the day-to-day activity of this stock, this is a company that has fundamentally changed the way people live because of the tools they have created and the ideas they have put forth. A 12-year old kid can get a mac laptop that not only comes with an arsenal of tools for creating music, pictures, and essentially expressing whatever he or she wants to express (essential to teenage survival), but in some cases, actually helps organize thoughts and all the crap we are supposed to deal with each day.
When I look at the trends they have set and the direction of other tech companies, I have to say there is no comparison. We are moving towards an Apple world. They are on fire. Screw the numbers, the analysts, and everyone else who is trying to squeeze a buck out of this company for a short term gain. Pay attention to what they are doing. They have moved from a computer company to being a LIFESTYLE company. We're talking about generations of people growing up with buying an iPod as quickly as buying a CD player back in the day. If you want music, you're getting an iPod, period. And let's not forget movie rentals, which not only will have higher profit margins than Netflix, but will also contribute significantly to less waste (no paper, DVD, or postage required).
I guess what I am saying is that in the same way Mac users really don't want to take the time to convince PC fanatics why Apple products and ideas are just better, a real investor in this company does not need to explain this to analysts or anyone else. The company is guiding conservatively and being punished for this. Ridiculous. Corporate greed is angry with the hippies at Apple - how dare Apple guide conservatively! These investors don't give a crap about Apple. They just want to make as much money as possible, as quickly as possible.
I believe in this company and have continued holding and buying on dips since 2003, beating out every other pick I've ever followed. Read the balance sheets, crunch the numbers, whatever - at the end of the day, you are investing in the future and the people shorting and yelling at Apple when they can't produce what they want will not live long into the future because they wind up dying of the stress trying to make a killing, instead of being a real investor.
Of course, we cannot just be blindly in love with Apple and kiss the butt of Mr. Jobs. We must also realize that Apple is not an island - what affects the broader market will always affect Apple. In a perfect world, all companies would be run as well as Apple, but they are not, and now the pathetic lots that lost a lot on other bets need to prostitute their shares of Apple.
What we can do is quit bitching and complaining about the stock every week. Look at the mindset - look at the things they have released and the patents they apply for. Look at how their products affect society and generations, not just bottom lines.
I do try to make predictions because at some point, you need to decide how long you want to stay in any company. The phone was certainly the easiest one - I'm sure lots of people figured they would go that route as soon as the iPod came out.
My next prediction is that in the not-to-distant future, they will be designing ways to help companies who require insane amounts of server streaming (youtube and facebook).
Perhaps it will be something with final cut pro and Mac servers, perhaps it will be new compression formats for video - whatever. The actual prediction is not as important as the fact that this is a company that inspires me and millions of other investors to brainstorm and try to predict what they will come up with next. No other company does that. We can't say for certain what the next ideas will be, which is part of the excitement of Apple, but I guarantee you, it will once again confound the minds of everyone stuck on their island, thinking about the present, instead of the future...
I remember just before Steve cam back to APPLE in 97' the stock was around $14, i was 23 yrs old, I thought that if i had to buy shares APPL would be my choice.. Big guns like Al Walid bought an enormous chunk of Apple stock, i can only imagine today +10 yrs later in how much they are sitting, it's rare to find people like you "bigapple" who just gets what apple is, i'm thinking you're one of those investors that deposit your confidance on a company and let the people on it do the magic, for the last 10 yrs or so has been Steve Jobs..
IMO i think we're back on 1997' the time is perfect to buy "once again" some serious appl stock, despite not having that much more money that i had then, i'm gonna go ahead and buy me some of this electronic sugar and sit on it for 10 more years and see what will be the outcome, steve may not be at the helm of Apple by that time, but i'm sure that his legacy will live on.
This just fundamentally proves that the stock market is legalized gambling. . .
And I'll up your "gambling" to "taxpayer-subsidized gambling" -- FTW!
That's right. When you lose, you deduct it straight off your income, and your winnings (aka capital gains) are taxed at a ridiculously low rate, far below that of income earned my performing useful work.
And anytime the government passes on collecting taxes to encourage certain activities like donating to the poor (or any charities for that matter), buying a home or losing money on Wall Street, it shifts the burden of financing our government to everyone else.
The 15% "flat tax" on all capital gains is blatantly unfair to those of us who realize either a tiny fraction of our income that way compared to the amount we earn by the sweat of our brow, and to those who have none at all. I would hope some good Democrat would start talking up the notion of adding some progressivity to the rates at which capital gains are taxed. It's only fair.
Good Stocks in Bad Markets make for fantastic buying opportunities, ala Proximityeffect.
Apple still has the story. This drop is procyclical traders and people getting shaken out on volatility.
Nobody ever made money by panicking.
Isn't that true of pretty much any new Apple product these days (Euro iPhone aside)? Steve could announce his laundry list and it'd sell well... at launch, anyway.
The real test isn't initial orders to the hardcore Apple faithful, but how well sales hold up long-term. But I am rooting for the MBAir, even though it isn't a true subnotebook. Its just so durn 'sexay'.
.
but the difference with the euro iphone is that, unlike in the US, the iphone can't be bought @ apple directly! thus making it impossible to give it as a gift! one has to give a coupon or something like that... an iphone in a box is not an option as a present!!! i think o2, t-mobile and orange underestimated the adverse effect of that shortsighted policy! the iphone can olny be activated via itunes anyway... to try to keep sales within the GSM provider stores is capping their sales by @ least 20%!
Thank you, thank you, and THANK you!
My thoughts exactly.
i agree on the most part!