Both left on their own for entirely different reasons. Both liked Apple and miss it in many ways. And both remarked several times just how incredibly, ridiculously secretive it is, even to the point where you literally don't know what the guy the next cube over is doing.
And neither would go into details. Whatever the culture is in there, it seems to stick for quite a while.
Even though I'm not bothered by Apple being secretive to outsiders, I don't find a work environment so compartmentalized to be appealing. I'm sure it also results in missed opportunities when it comes to product development.
But this is how Steve Jobs is. We can't line-item veto his style to suit our taste.
And, for whatever it's worth, I don't care for social networking myself. I have no MySpace or Facebook account and I don't share personal information or photos on-line. If I want somebody to see a picture, I send them an e-mail. I couldn't care less that Apple is not pursuing this; I'd rather they didn't, in fact.
The site does not appear to do any effort to make sure that a person that posts an opinion actually worked there. I think that discredits the entire idea.
The site does not profess to do so. For that matter Apple (Apple is no the only one) has sold the general public blue sky too, so what's your angle?
Then that makes the site completely irrelevant if anyone can claim they were an employee. All the haters can flood the site and make it worse than it really is, all the lovers can flood the site to rate it better than it is.
Quote:
For that matter Apple (Apple is no the only one) has sold the general public blue sky too, so what's your angle?
I don't even understand what you're trying to say here.
"There were some very promising prototypes of sexier things [than these], but I really can?t talk about those, other than to say that they were canceled," Alfke says. "I looked around after Leopard was finished, and didn?t see any place in the company where I could pursue my ideas. It would have meant evangelizing reluctant executives into sharing my vision."
Are there companies where people DON'T have to pitch their ideas to executives?
Is he claiming that Apple is reluctant, in general, to take chances or do anything
different(ly)? If his ideas were that great and he believed in them that strongly,
he should have welcomed the opportunity to "evangelize". I hope he finds a
company who will fund his ideas sight-unseen so they will be produced into
I don't even understand what you're trying to say here.
You have absolutely no comprehension of what it entails, so it is useless to try to explain it to you. Say what you want, it makes no difference. Another Apple fanboy who can't see the forest for the trees, oh well. You remind me a great deal of a real estate agent.
You have absolutely no comprehension of what it entails, so it is useless to try to explain it to you. Say what you want, it makes no difference. Another Apple fanboy who can't see the forest for the trees, oh well. You remind me a great deal of a real estate agent.
You were talking in cryptic riddles and metaphors which could mean a lot of different things.
And you throw labels and accusations onto the people that dares to ask you questions. How insolent of us! Exactly what is your problem?
You're giving up on explaining it to me because of your prejudices. If you knew anything about my posting history, you'd know that I'm not a blind fanboy. I'm beginning to see why anant doesn't like that word. But you're not even giving me the benefit of the doubt, and running off in a huff because we don't understand you.
But if that's your odd way of saying that it's hard to verify someone actually worked somewhere, that's true. I don't think any internet employer survey can possibly be trusted, there's no point to those sites at all.
Are you an Apple employee or what? Read the post...it means what I stated: Sites like these are starting to appear. Employees are starting to state their views on their company, outside of the company. Don't you get it? Didn't you see the site? No, I am not affiliated with the site in any manner.
No. I am not an Apple employee. And, given my preferences (e.g., I care a lot about work-life balance), I would have little interest in working in a company like that.
But that's beside the point.
I am just sick and tired of proforma posts - i.e., posts that say 'something' because, in a stream-of-consciousness way, it seems cool to say 'something.' This kind of meaningless crap permeates our discourse, whether in forums like these, or more importantly, in areas such as politics.
I am still trying to understand what exactly you were trying to get at. If the answer is "nothing, really," then I'll repeat my question: Why bother?
Both left on their own for entirely different reasons. Both liked Apple and miss it in many ways. And both remarked several times just how incredibly, ridiculously secretive it is, even to the point where you literally don't know what the guy the next cube over is doing.
And neither would go into details. Whatever the culture is in there, it seems to stick for quite a while.
Even though I'm not bothered by Apple being secretive to outsiders, I don't find a work environment so compartmentalized to be appealing. I'm sure it also results in missed opportunities when it comes to product development.
But this is how Steve Jobs is. We can't line-item veto his style to suit our taste.
And, for whatever it's worth, I don't care for social networking myself. I have no MySpace or Facebook account and I don't share personal information or photos on-line. If I want somebody to see a picture, I send them an e-mail. I couldn't care less that Apple is not pursuing this; I'd rather they didn't, in fact.
I should add that 3.5 is not a bad score compared to what many of the other companies are getting (although, I did not check the details behind the other companies' numbers).
Well, I did. According to their scoreboard, Apple is only a marginally better place to work when compared to Wal-Mart .
Typical Apple with it's ultra tight control. Almost reminds me of a socialist regime at times. I remember a while back when many people were having trouble with their Seagate HD. When I went to purchase my MacBook in November of last year, I mentioned this to 2 Apple employees and that I read this at Apple Insider, CNET, MacNN, etc and they were completely clueless and told me they weren't allowed to visit "rumor" sites.
Typical Apple with it's ultra tight control. Almost reminds me of a socialist regime at times. I remember a while back when many people were having trouble with their Seagate HD. When I went to purchase my MacBook in November of last year, I mentioned this to 2 Apple employees and that I read this at Apple Insider, CNET, MacNN, etc and they were completely clueless and told me they weren't allowed to visit "rumor" sites.
I love Apple but boy are they control freaks.
As the rumor sites are perhaps almost always wrong, it makes sense that employees would be "prohibited" from visiting those sites, since it is human nature to confuse fiction with fact and propagate it. I doubt 100% of employees adhere to this supposed policy 100% of the time, but they all certainly understand that they'll be held 100% responsible for their actions if something goes awry.
It makes sense that employees would be "prohibited" from visiting those sites, since it is human nature to confuse fiction with fact and propagate it. I doubt 100% of employees adhere to this supposed policy 100% of the time, but they all certainly understand that they'll be held 100% responsible for their actions if something goes awry.
Couldn't agree more. Wouldn't expect anything else from a highly innovative company like Apple. IMO secretive is the only way, especially when patents, litigitations and millions of dollars are at stake.
With regards to the departed employee, I am sure he must be bitter. But good news for the rest of us...there is currently an opening in Cupertino .
And, for whatever it's worth, I don't care for social networking myself. I have no MySpace or Facebook account and I don't share personal information or photos on-line. If I want somebody to see a picture, I send them an e-mail. I couldn't care less that Apple is not pursuing this; I'd rather they didn't, in fact.
Yup, I'm in the same boat. Been using computers for over 25 years now and I have no interest in putting my life on display for the world. Not to mention that I just don't have time to maintain a virtual persona on a half dozen or so social networking sites. I spend my entire day working on computers, so when I want to socialize with others, I get off the computer, give them a call, and go meet for drinks. I find it a lot more gratifying.
I think there is a market for software for journalists, and other creative professionals, but for social networking, it's always going to be a swiss army knife of web apps and app plug-ins to fit the "site du jour". Tie your software to any particular website's interface and it's destined to be outdated in a couple of years. I've already lived through about 2 or 3 rounds of social networking software/sites in the past 8 years (remember Friendster or ICQ anyone)?
So yes, I'm also glad Apple is staying focused on software for professional users and steering clear of the fickle world of social networking.
Corporations are not democracies. Get used to it, if you plan to work for one.
Hmmm...Is there a reason for the sarcastic and rude reply? As far as corporations go, "Been there, done that." and now I work for myself. Sorry it just wasn't my taste.
Yup, I'm in the same boat. Been using computers for over 25 years now and I have no interest in putting my life on display for the world. Not to mention that I just don't have time to maintain a virtual persona on a half dozen or so social networking sites. I spend my entire day working on computers, so when I want to socialize with others, I get off the computer, give them a call, and go meet for drinks. I find it a lot more gratifying.
You seem strangely unaware that you are, in fact, socializing on One of Those Sites, right now.
As much as I sympathise with people who do not enjoy their company policies, I personally don't mind seeing anywhere I work/worked banning all "social network", online chat, and blogging during work time. Because I personally hate those things.
Yes, this attitude will bite me in the ass somewhere down the line, but I'm just being honest.
Apple's been like this since long before Steve Jobs came back. Why didn't Apple absorb AOL when it was still essentially "AppleLink Personal Edition"? Why did Apple take so long to embrace TCP/IP and the web when they were so far ahead of Windows at the time? Why was Quicktime Videoconferencing left to languish until others ruled the domain? Why does .Mac suck so much? Why do they sue Apple fan sites? Apple just doesn't get online interaction and never has. If it's not email or direct person-to-person IM (and iChat took forever to get right-- it finally seems usable in Leopard) Apple's an also-ran.
Comments
And neither would go into details. Whatever the culture is in there, it seems to stick for quite a while.
Even though I'm not bothered by Apple being secretive to outsiders, I don't find a work environment so compartmentalized to be appealing. I'm sure it also results in missed opportunities when it comes to product development.
But this is how Steve Jobs is. We can't line-item veto his style to suit our taste.
And, for whatever it's worth, I don't care for social networking myself. I have no MySpace or Facebook account and I don't share personal information or photos on-line. If I want somebody to see a picture, I send them an e-mail. I couldn't care less that Apple is not pursuing this; I'd rather they didn't, in fact.
The site does not appear to do any effort to make sure that a person that posts an opinion actually worked there. I think that discredits the entire idea.
The site does not profess to do so. For that matter Apple (Apple is no the only one) has sold the general public blue sky too, so what's your angle?
The site does not profess to do so.
Then that makes the site completely irrelevant if anyone can claim they were an employee. All the haters can flood the site and make it worse than it really is, all the lovers can flood the site to rate it better than it is.
For that matter Apple (Apple is no the only one) has sold the general public blue sky too, so what's your angle?
I don't even understand what you're trying to say here.
"There were some very promising prototypes of sexier things [than these], but I really can?t talk about those, other than to say that they were canceled," Alfke says. "I looked around after Leopard was finished, and didn?t see any place in the company where I could pursue my ideas. It would have meant evangelizing reluctant executives into sharing my vision."
Are there companies where people DON'T have to pitch their ideas to executives?
Is he claiming that Apple is reluctant, in general, to take chances or do anything
different(ly)? If his ideas were that great and he believed in them that strongly,
he should have welcomed the opportunity to "evangelize". I hope he finds a
company who will fund his ideas sight-unseen so they will be produced into
something we can all evaluate for "sexiness".
I don't even understand what you're trying to say here.
You have absolutely no comprehension of what it entails, so it is useless to try to explain it to you. Say what you want, it makes no difference. Another Apple fanboy who can't see the forest for the trees, oh well. You remind me a great deal of a real estate agent.
You have absolutely no comprehension of what it entails, so it is useless to try to explain it to you. Say what you want, it makes no difference. Another Apple fanboy who can't see the forest for the trees, oh well. You remind me a great deal of a real estate agent.
You were talking in cryptic riddles and metaphors which could mean a lot of different things.
And you throw labels and accusations onto the people that dares to ask you questions. How insolent of us! Exactly what is your problem?
You're giving up on explaining it to me because of your prejudices. If you knew anything about my posting history, you'd know that I'm not a blind fanboy. I'm beginning to see why anant doesn't like that word. But you're not even giving me the benefit of the doubt, and running off in a huff because we don't understand you.
But if that's your odd way of saying that it's hard to verify someone actually worked somewhere, that's true. I don't think any internet employer survey can possibly be trusted, there's no point to those sites at all.
Are you an Apple employee or what? Read the post...it means what I stated: Sites like these are starting to appear. Employees are starting to state their views on their company, outside of the company. Don't you get it? Didn't you see the site? No, I am not affiliated with the site in any manner.
No. I am not an Apple employee. And, given my preferences (e.g., I care a lot about work-life balance), I would have little interest in working in a company like that.
But that's beside the point.
I am just sick and tired of proforma posts - i.e., posts that say 'something' because, in a stream-of-consciousness way, it seems cool to say 'something.' This kind of meaningless crap permeates our discourse, whether in forums like these, or more importantly, in areas such as politics.
I am still trying to understand what exactly you were trying to get at. If the answer is "nothing, really," then I'll repeat my question: Why bother?
Both left on their own for entirely different reasons. Both liked Apple and miss it in many ways. And both remarked several times just how incredibly, ridiculously secretive it is, even to the point where you literally don't know what the guy the next cube over is doing.
And neither would go into details. Whatever the culture is in there, it seems to stick for quite a while.
Even though I'm not bothered by Apple being secretive to outsiders, I don't find a work environment so compartmentalized to be appealing. I'm sure it also results in missed opportunities when it comes to product development.
But this is how Steve Jobs is. We can't line-item veto his style to suit our taste.
And, for whatever it's worth, I don't care for social networking myself. I have no MySpace or Facebook account and I don't share personal information or photos on-line. If I want somebody to see a picture, I send them an e-mail. I couldn't care less that Apple is not pursuing this; I'd rather they didn't, in fact.
Brilliant post. Restores my faith. Thanks.
Huh?
I should add that 3.5 is not a bad score compared to what many of the other companies are getting (although, I did not check the details behind the other companies' numbers).
Well, I did. According to their scoreboard, Apple is only a marginally better place to work when compared to Wal-Mart
Where is the world coming to!
I love Apple but boy are they control freaks.
Typical Apple with it's ultra tight control. Almost reminds me of a socialist regime at times. I remember a while back when many people were having trouble with their Seagate HD. When I went to purchase my MacBook in November of last year, I mentioned this to 2 Apple employees and that I read this at Apple Insider, CNET, MacNN, etc and they were completely clueless and told me they weren't allowed to visit "rumor" sites.
I love Apple but boy are they control freaks.
As the rumor sites are perhaps almost always wrong, it makes sense that employees would be "prohibited" from visiting those sites, since it is human nature to confuse fiction with fact and propagate it. I doubt 100% of employees adhere to this supposed policy 100% of the time, but they all certainly understand that they'll be held 100% responsible for their actions if something goes awry.
Typical Apple with it's ultra tight control. Almost reminds me of a socialist regime at times.
Corporations are not democracies. Get used to it, if you plan to work for one.
It makes sense that employees would be "prohibited" from visiting those sites, since it is human nature to confuse fiction with fact and propagate it. I doubt 100% of employees adhere to this supposed policy 100% of the time, but they all certainly understand that they'll be held 100% responsible for their actions if something goes awry.
Couldn't agree more. Wouldn't expect anything else from a highly innovative company like Apple. IMO secretive is the only way, especially when patents, litigitations and millions of dollars are at stake.
With regards to the departed employee, I am sure he must be bitter. But good news for the rest of us...there is currently an opening in Cupertino
And, for whatever it's worth, I don't care for social networking myself. I have no MySpace or Facebook account and I don't share personal information or photos on-line. If I want somebody to see a picture, I send them an e-mail. I couldn't care less that Apple is not pursuing this; I'd rather they didn't, in fact.
Yup, I'm in the same boat. Been using computers for over 25 years now and I have no interest in putting my life on display for the world. Not to mention that I just don't have time to maintain a virtual persona on a half dozen or so social networking sites. I spend my entire day working on computers, so when I want to socialize with others, I get off the computer, give them a call, and go meet for drinks. I find it a lot more gratifying.
I think there is a market for software for journalists, and other creative professionals, but for social networking, it's always going to be a swiss army knife of web apps and app plug-ins to fit the "site du jour". Tie your software to any particular website's interface and it's destined to be outdated in a couple of years. I've already lived through about 2 or 3 rounds of social networking software/sites in the past 8 years (remember Friendster or ICQ anyone)?
So yes, I'm also glad Apple is staying focused on software for professional users and steering clear of the fickle world of social networking.
Corporations are not democracies. Get used to it, if you plan to work for one.
Hmmm...Is there a reason for the sarcastic and rude reply? As far as corporations go, "Been there, done that." and now I work for myself. Sorry it just wasn't my taste.
Corporations are not democracies. Get used to it, if you plan to work for one.
They're basically feudal societies.
Yup, I'm in the same boat. Been using computers for over 25 years now and I have no interest in putting my life on display for the world. Not to mention that I just don't have time to maintain a virtual persona on a half dozen or so social networking sites. I spend my entire day working on computers, so when I want to socialize with others, I get off the computer, give them a call, and go meet for drinks. I find it a lot more gratifying.
You seem strangely unaware that you are, in fact, socializing on One of Those Sites, right now.
Yes, this attitude will bite me in the ass somewhere down the line, but I'm just being honest.
Typical Apple with it's ultra tight control. Almost reminds me of a socialist regime at times.
Do you even know what the word "socialist" means? Or do you mean "authoritarian" or "totalitarian"?
American ignorance about socialism is ruining democracy.