This article says that mail-in is the only option for battery replacement, but I've read elsewhere that apple plans to offer in-store swaps while you wait.
The more info that comes out about this, the more the whining seems overblown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravelgrane
This is not "whining".
It seems like a pretty legitimate complaint to me. what's the point in ultra-portability if you're dead in the water without a place to recharge after only 3-4 hours of use? I ran into this problem with my iPhone while traveling. I want to be able to carry a spare battery and pop it in when I need to. I don't want to have to carry a screwdriver and perform surgery, potentially voiding my warranty, etc.
Remember, this is a premium product from a company that is famous for making things easier, not harder. It's not a toy like the OLPC or a cheapo low-budget computer like the Asus EEE. Is it really such a big compromise in the design of products to have a replaceable battery? Can some designer or engineer explain this for us? Are looks really that important? Is this "thinking different", or just some kind of arrogance?
Apple has learnt from the "whining"/legitimate complaints, and as such is better prepared this time, that much I can say, from what I gather...
...Did Apple make this choice for this reason, no, as you state form factor was the issue but it is wrong for people to say that Apple has done some great harm to consumers for this. Its a trade off. For someone who likes to carry two batteries, its a show stopper. For the other 98%, they are arguably better off, better connection, fewer points of failure.
It is also a very clean design. Its nice to turn over that machine and have it be smooth, sealed.
This I must say is a reasonable view on things. The people that want this will not be carrying around and extra battery. Can you imagine how many sexy handbags will have this thing slipped in without cables etc etc? Career/SuperstarMom/Etc/Women for example are a big target market for the MacBook Air.
Of course its not rubbish - the very fact that those products exist is an acknowledgement that oxidation can corrode the battery contacts and lead to a loss of conductivity. It is a point of failure that would be lessened by a more fixed connection. Take an older powerbook al, apply some flex and you may lose battery power - I don't think this would be the case with a soldered connector and a little cable that locked into place. Are replaceable batteries workable and reasonable, yes. Would you get a better connection with a fixed connector with cable, of course you would.
Did Apple make this choice for this reason, no, as you state form factor was the issue but it is wrong for people to say that Apple has done some great harm to consumers for this. Its a trade off. For someone who likes to carry two batteries, its a show stopper. For the other 98%, they are arguably better off, better connection, fewer points of failure.
It is also a very clean design. Its nice to turn over that machine and have it be smooth, sealed.
You have precluded many other factors that lead to corrosion, such as resistance, and other factors, for an overly simplistic view as a means of justification that is simply false on so many levels. Face it, Apple did this as a result of the battery's form factor. Your hypothesis not only overlooks, what I briefly adverted to, but also introduces another factor of having someone who is supposedly skilled at replacing these batteries without inducing what you use as your argument!
This I must say is a reasonable view on things. The people that want this will not be carrying around and extra battery. Can you imagine how many sexy handbags will have this thing slipped in without cables etc etc? Career/SuperstarMom/Etc/Women for example are a big target market for the MacBook Air.
Gawd sakes, my wife is an exec at one of the world's largest tech company, and believe me her handbags all cost over a grand apiece?none will fit an MBA, and if they could she is not even remotely interested in carrying an MBA in them. She uses a rolling business case for her computer, and important paperwork.
Man, are people watching too much television or movies these days or what? Or is it simply those watching TV or movies on an iPod who brains are affected?
Of course its not rubbish - the very fact that those products exist is an acknowledgement that oxidation can corrode the battery contacts and lead to a loss of conductivity. It is a point of failure that would be lessened by a more fixed connection. Take an older powerbook al, apply some flex and you may lose battery power - I don't think this would be the case with a soldered connector and a little cable that locked into place. Are replaceable batteries workable and reasonable, yes. Would you get a better connection with a fixed connector with cable, of course you would.
Have you really had this happen? Does it really solve a common problem?
Maybe the flex in the powerbook is a design flaw on the part of Apple? I've never seen that happen with any notebook that I've handled. The two non-Apple notebooks I've had were nearly as thin as the Apple equivalent at the time they were made and they didn't have any contact corrosion or disconnects. I've had more trouble with one of Apple's MagSafe connectors than I've had battery contact problems on four notebooks. Which is more prone to failure than any other power connector that I remember using. That's kind of what to expect when contacts are really micro springs pusing tiny pins. Any pins that break won't push the pins out so you don't get a charge. So I'm not really buying that Apple is necessarily out to improve reliability.
Gawd sakes, my wife is an exec at one of the world's largest tech company, and believe me her handbags all cost over a grand apiece?none will fit an MBA, and if they could she is not even remotely interested in carrying an MBA in them. She uses a rolling business case for her computer, and important paperwork.
Man, are people watching too much television or movies these days or what? Or is it simply those watching TV or movies on an iPod who brains are affected?
With all due respect to your wife, just because she may not be interested in a MBA doesn't mean other women may not like it. Have you seen such other women who carry around their Sony Vaios? The precedent has been established.
Have you really had this happen? Does it really solve a common problem?
I have no idea how common it is but it does happen to me. I close my laptop, it goes to sleep, go to another room and it has shutdown on its own. Maybe there is another explanation but my sense is that it had a momentary lose of power.
I have no idea about corrosion, my point was that if the commenter is going to such trouble to assure the connection by adding that conductivity stuff, then its an acknowledgement that the connection to the battery is a point of failure.
My point is that hardwiring would be more reliable than something that is removable, if the case is not super tight, you might lose that connection. And that a fixed connection battery could be done with less material than is needed for a removable battery. So you get 2 benefits - a better connection and its thinner, lighter.
I have seen the same effect where a removable battery is a problem with cell phones too. I had an LG which when it was old the point of failure was the connection to the battery. The little teeth holding the battery on got worn and were loose just enough for the battery to momentarily lose contact with the device. My solution was to super glue the battery to the rest of the device. It struck me though that this supposed feature of being able to replace a battery nearly killed the device. I never got to the point to replace the original battery, so there was no need for this sort of removability in my opinion.
I am not saying there is not a downside, yes replacing a battery would not be as easy and it does not work for someone who carries multiple batteries but my point is that these cases are not as common, in my opinion, as people make them out to be. I know very few people who today carry an extra battery - it was more common in the past. And I think the LIon batteries seem to have enough longevity that its not that much of an issue.
When I see this big furor over losing the removable battery, it seems like a lot of noise to me. We heard the same thing on the iPhone and the iPods. Most people will never replace a battery, even if its easy, but anyone can enjoy a small thin device. In the last 3 laptops I have replaced one battery, and this may have been due to a bad ac adaptor. I bought the replacement from Apple, I can't see what the difference would have been to have them replace it, especially if it were by over the counter service, than for me to buy it and put it in myself. If anything, its more expensive for them to do the service than for the battery to be just handed to me.
I just think when people see something change they get all angry like they have been robbed, its just silliness. No one forces anyone to buy the product. In general I think geeks get much more worked up on stuff than is warranted. And again, this product has not shipped yet, so why get worked up over it. Lets see how it works first.
Comments
This article says that mail-in is the only option for battery replacement, but I've read elsewhere that apple plans to offer in-store swaps while you wait.
The more info that comes out about this, the more the whining seems overblown.
This is not "whining".
It seems like a pretty legitimate complaint to me. what's the point in ultra-portability if you're dead in the water without a place to recharge after only 3-4 hours of use? I ran into this problem with my iPhone while traveling. I want to be able to carry a spare battery and pop it in when I need to. I don't want to have to carry a screwdriver and perform surgery, potentially voiding my warranty, etc.
Remember, this is a premium product from a company that is famous for making things easier, not harder. It's not a toy like the OLPC or a cheapo low-budget computer like the Asus EEE. Is it really such a big compromise in the design of products to have a replaceable battery? Can some designer or engineer explain this for us? Are looks really that important? Is this "thinking different", or just some kind of arrogance?
Apple has learnt from the "whining"/legitimate complaints, and as such is better prepared this time, that much I can say, from what I gather...
...Did Apple make this choice for this reason, no, as you state form factor was the issue but it is wrong for people to say that Apple has done some great harm to consumers for this. Its a trade off. For someone who likes to carry two batteries, its a show stopper. For the other 98%, they are arguably better off, better connection, fewer points of failure.
It is also a very clean design. Its nice to turn over that machine and have it be smooth, sealed.
This I must say is a reasonable view on things. The people that want this will not be carrying around and extra battery. Can you imagine how many sexy handbags will have this thing slipped in without cables etc etc? Career/SuperstarMom/Etc/Women for example are a big target market for the MacBook Air.
Of course its not rubbish - the very fact that those products exist is an acknowledgement that oxidation can corrode the battery contacts and lead to a loss of conductivity. It is a point of failure that would be lessened by a more fixed connection. Take an older powerbook al, apply some flex and you may lose battery power - I don't think this would be the case with a soldered connector and a little cable that locked into place. Are replaceable batteries workable and reasonable, yes. Would you get a better connection with a fixed connector with cable, of course you would.
Did Apple make this choice for this reason, no, as you state form factor was the issue but it is wrong for people to say that Apple has done some great harm to consumers for this. Its a trade off. For someone who likes to carry two batteries, its a show stopper. For the other 98%, they are arguably better off, better connection, fewer points of failure.
It is also a very clean design. Its nice to turn over that machine and have it be smooth, sealed.
You have precluded many other factors that lead to corrosion, such as resistance, and other factors, for an overly simplistic view as a means of justification that is simply false on so many levels. Face it, Apple did this as a result of the battery's form factor. Your hypothesis not only overlooks, what I briefly adverted to, but also introduces another factor of having someone who is supposedly skilled at replacing these batteries without inducing what you use as your argument!
This I must say is a reasonable view on things. The people that want this will not be carrying around and extra battery. Can you imagine how many sexy handbags will have this thing slipped in without cables etc etc? Career/SuperstarMom/Etc/Women for example are a big target market for the MacBook Air.
Gawd sakes, my wife is an exec at one of the world's largest tech company, and believe me her handbags all cost over a grand apiece?none will fit an MBA, and if they could she is not even remotely interested in carrying an MBA in them. She uses a rolling business case for her computer, and important paperwork.
Man, are people watching too much television or movies these days or what? Or is it simply those watching TV or movies on an iPod who brains are affected?
Of course its not rubbish - the very fact that those products exist is an acknowledgement that oxidation can corrode the battery contacts and lead to a loss of conductivity. It is a point of failure that would be lessened by a more fixed connection. Take an older powerbook al, apply some flex and you may lose battery power - I don't think this would be the case with a soldered connector and a little cable that locked into place. Are replaceable batteries workable and reasonable, yes. Would you get a better connection with a fixed connector with cable, of course you would.
Have you really had this happen? Does it really solve a common problem?
Maybe the flex in the powerbook is a design flaw on the part of Apple? I've never seen that happen with any notebook that I've handled. The two non-Apple notebooks I've had were nearly as thin as the Apple equivalent at the time they were made and they didn't have any contact corrosion or disconnects. I've had more trouble with one of Apple's MagSafe connectors than I've had battery contact problems on four notebooks. Which is more prone to failure than any other power connector that I remember using. That's kind of what to expect when contacts are really micro springs pusing tiny pins. Any pins that break won't push the pins out so you don't get a charge. So I'm not really buying that Apple is necessarily out to improve reliability.
Gawd sakes, my wife is an exec at one of the world's largest tech company, and believe me her handbags all cost over a grand apiece?none will fit an MBA, and if they could she is not even remotely interested in carrying an MBA in them. She uses a rolling business case for her computer, and important paperwork.
Man, are people watching too much television or movies these days or what? Or is it simply those watching TV or movies on an iPod who brains are affected?
With all due respect to your wife, just because she may not be interested in a MBA doesn't mean other women may not like it. Have you seen such other women who carry around their Sony Vaios? The precedent has been established.
And no, I don't actually own an iPod myself.
Have you really had this happen? Does it really solve a common problem?
I have no idea how common it is but it does happen to me. I close my laptop, it goes to sleep, go to another room and it has shutdown on its own. Maybe there is another explanation but my sense is that it had a momentary lose of power.
I have no idea about corrosion, my point was that if the commenter is going to such trouble to assure the connection by adding that conductivity stuff, then its an acknowledgement that the connection to the battery is a point of failure.
My point is that hardwiring would be more reliable than something that is removable, if the case is not super tight, you might lose that connection. And that a fixed connection battery could be done with less material than is needed for a removable battery. So you get 2 benefits - a better connection and its thinner, lighter.
I have seen the same effect where a removable battery is a problem with cell phones too. I had an LG which when it was old the point of failure was the connection to the battery. The little teeth holding the battery on got worn and were loose just enough for the battery to momentarily lose contact with the device. My solution was to super glue the battery to the rest of the device. It struck me though that this supposed feature of being able to replace a battery nearly killed the device. I never got to the point to replace the original battery, so there was no need for this sort of removability in my opinion.
I am not saying there is not a downside, yes replacing a battery would not be as easy and it does not work for someone who carries multiple batteries but my point is that these cases are not as common, in my opinion, as people make them out to be. I know very few people who today carry an extra battery - it was more common in the past. And I think the LIon batteries seem to have enough longevity that its not that much of an issue.
When I see this big furor over losing the removable battery, it seems like a lot of noise to me. We heard the same thing on the iPhone and the iPods. Most people will never replace a battery, even if its easy, but anyone can enjoy a small thin device. In the last 3 laptops I have replaced one battery, and this may have been due to a bad ac adaptor. I bought the replacement from Apple, I can't see what the difference would have been to have them replace it, especially if it were by over the counter service, than for me to buy it and put it in myself. If anything, its more expensive for them to do the service than for the battery to be just handed to me.
I just think when people see something change they get all angry like they have been robbed, its just silliness. No one forces anyone to buy the product. In general I think geeks get much more worked up on stuff than is warranted. And again, this product has not shipped yet, so why get worked up over it. Lets see how it works first.