Definitive update on new MacBook Pro

245

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 98
    Quote:

    New MBP DOES feature a slightly revised case design with the new black keyboard from MBA and a larger trackpad, but is basically very similar to existing design. Think evolution not revolution.



    Great info!



    ...but just few reflections:



    1) I remember when menrom was adopted on MBP (was menrom or or yonah? don't remenber well, actually) with 1,8Ghz speed... not really a good product, you can admit! would we expect stable and reliable performances from the new penryn, intended as the first procuct of the new processor family? or do we need to wait the successors?



    2) moreover: if menrom take full advantage coupled with santarosa chipset, how can we consider penryn as a reliable performance upgrade since not coupled with montevina platform?



    3) just a little premise: I really LOVE macs; and I consider mac OS X (panther, tiger or leopard, as you want), the best OS ever, milions of years ahead of MS...but:



    I'm watching right now to a local store flyer offer:

    Notebook HP

    Intel core 2 duo T7500 (2,2 Ghz, 4MB L" cache)

    2048 MB RAM DDR2

    250 GB HD

    NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS, 256MB dedicated

    Window svista (it's not a type error! I'm italian, look for the meaning of "svista" in italian ;-) )

    at 800 €!



    Yes, MBP its better, thinner, more beatiful, with backlite keybord, and so on... we all know that

    It has a 8600M GT with is definetely superior (not just for the +200 in id code ...eheheh...)... it has mac os-x with a lot of great stuffs built-in (like iLife, that itself would just worth the money)... I definetely agree... but it costs 2400 €! it's 3 times more! how could that be?!?



    in the few next months, I planned to change my actual notebook. I use 3D software with rendering (ArchiCAD, mainly), also use GIS apps (like GRASS), I develop server apps, dynamic websites and apps for many platforms (now just for linux and windows, also developing windows native binaries from unix-based apps using msys/mingw environment, as I'm making for GRASS). So mac os-x would be perfect for the purpose.... but why so much money? I cannot work on a macbook (the mac-cheap option for notebooks)... 13 inches are too small form me, and glossy (bleah!). So... is Apple really competitive with so high prices?



    Thanks for reading ;-)



    Marco
  • Reply 22 of 98
    As far as the MBP is concerned. Yes Apple can charge what they are charging because the machines are worth it.



    Mac laptops appeal to basically two types of consumers:

    1) Those who desire Function over Form.

    2) Those who desire Form over Function.



    While I find myself in the first group, I believe that a great deal of lemmings fall into the latter category.



    I will tell you why I will pay 3 times more for a MBP instead of buying a cheaper PC laptop. I am an instructional designer and my clients use both platforms. I also use a variety of media authoring software, and the best products out there for me are exclusive to one platform or the other. Mac makes better hardware!



    I will wait a few weeks for the MBP and I'll be thankful they give a discount to educators.
  • Reply 23 of 98
    sennensennen Posts: 1,470member
    interesting post, tailpipe. you've got me looking forward to what happens this year!



    btw, i quite like the new black keyboard on the macbook Air, it's reminiscent of the old TiBook:







    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-powerbook.jpg



    just more refined and in keeping with the new keyboard:



    http://images.apple.com/macbookair/i...7_20080115.jpg
  • Reply 24 of 98
    rolorolo Posts: 686member
    Anyone remember Robson, the forgotten part of Santa Rosa? It was a feature that was supposed to put some flash memory on the logic board to speed boot times, app launches, etc. All you need is 1 or 2GB and that sure wouldn't cost much these days.



    As for the Penryn used in the updated MBP, I wonder if it'll use the smaller packaging seen on the MBA. Sure would be nice, especially considering that the MBA uses a 65nm Merom chip on the CPU package intended for Montevina. Aside from taking up less space, it would add efficiency to the CPU.



    Oh, and how about a Blu-ray option? You can order HP Pavilion laptops now with 2.5 GHz Penryn chips and Blu-ray ROM, DVD ± RW drives. They make them thin enough now so it'd be nice as an option.



    I'd prefer a monochromatic design with matching keys. If it's like the MBA, it might look something like this:



  • Reply 25 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rogue68 View Post


    @ Tailpipe,



    Great info



    Does this mean the 13" high-specced MB will come out with the revised MBPs in a couple of weeks, or will we have to wait til September?



    I know nothing about the release of a MacBook update. I was merely reporting protoypes seen doing the rounds at Cupertino. I suspect they're researching what customers want, but no decision has been made. If MacBook does go aluminium, annodized variants would be an easy shoe-in. I expect nthing before June or September.



    This is guesswork not fact, but I feel sure that Apple's plans for the MacBook Pro are very much being driven by early reaction to the MBA. There is one universal criticism that seems likely to inhibit sales: the net of compromises made means that MBA is best viewed as a second computer, not a primary or only one.



    The desgn of both the MBA and the new iMac plus the new keyboard as used wih the Mac Pro have all begun to date the existing MBP. Everyone is anticipating a new MBP and delaying purchase in the hope of an update arriving soon. With tougher economic times, only people who really need a new computer are buying them. Therefore, Apple is probably advised to bring out a revised MBP MacBook Pro soon.



    As far as remarks about the black keyboard are concerned, I don't give a damn what colour it is; ergonomically the new one on the MB/ MBA is better than the existing one on the MBP because of the sapcing, feel and travel.



    I do think the Penryn chip will perform well. If anything it should be more reliable than the existing design, because it uses less power and therefore doesn't run so hot. Even so, shrinking the process is always a risk. The 45 Nm boards are bound to have teething problems.



    What all this means is that with thinner LED screens, smaller mother boards, the arrival of SSD, and so on, the technology to make the MBP notably thinner and lighter exists. The only barrier is the need to include an internal DVD drive.



    (BTW, i think an easier t remove hard drive al a MB is a dead cert.)
  • Reply 26 of 98
    Any speculations on the GPU for MBP, 8600 gt is relative old, myabe the new 9600, what do you think is it possible?
  • Reply 27 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post


    However, if the next MBP revision is intended to streamline and unify the MacBook look, it is unlikely that Apple will update that look (ruining the just achieved streamlining) coming August with yet another case design.

    If the case doesn't change with the MBP revision in fall/winter 2008, it's quite possible that Apple might not wait that long to introduce Montevina.



    Nothing says that they will do am update in fall/winter '08. That idea is pure speculation on your part, assuming that they will do a refresh at the same time as former updates. They have fallen behind with the Macbook Pro, and I believe that this is one of two updates possible this year, but the machine you speek of is a long way from being a reality. And if they did, there is nothing saying that they couldn't update the enclosure now, and do the other updates later. And by the way, the refresh to the MBP line would not "ruin the just achieved streamlining". They have not acheived this yet. The MBP does not yet have the new backlit keyboard that the MBA sports, nor does it have the new track pad capable of using multi-touch gestures.

    This refresh is the one that is going to see the enclosure design. I think it will be more than a matter of months before Apple builds HDMI ports into even thier pro portables.
  • Reply 28 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by haklc View Post


    Any speculations on the GPU for MBP, 8600 gt is relative old, myabe the new 9600, what do you think is it possible?



    I would LOVE to see Apple put this GPU in the new pro's!!!! I am waiting for this update, and then I am buying the base model MBP. I cannot afford the more expensive version, and have been concerned for some time that I will shortly find myself unhappy with the 128MB card... I hope they bump it so that the 256MB card is in the base and the 512MB comes in the mid-range 15" and the 17"...
  • Reply 29 of 98
    Think a newer GPU is going be a must if Apple intend the MBP refresh to be anything more than a very short term stop gap until the montivina (or what ever the spelling is) based update is ready - and I suspect I won't be the only one who with out a revised GPU will be either looking elsewhere or delaying.



    (I don't do much 3d based work/gaming but when I do I want smooth graphics.)
  • Reply 30 of 98
    hobbithobbit Posts: 532member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by opnsource View Post


    Nothing says that they will do am update in fall/winter '08.



    Yes that's speculation of course. But since in 6 of the last 7 years Apple did refresh the PowerBook/MacBook Pro lines in October or November, it is a good indication that they might do again this year.



    Regarding case design:

    I always thought that the switch to Montevina would strongly warrant a complete case redesign: with potential new features like WiMax, Blu-Ray DVD drive, HDMI out (or Display Port), 8GB RAM, etc.

    Yet if the next update brings the design in line with the MacBook Air (dark keyboard, wider trackpad, etc.) then I doubt they will redesign it yet again for Montevina. Ideally both should go hand in hand. Yet the majority seems to expect the next update within the next few weeks, which is too early for Montevina, which comes out in May.



    So the most likely scenario is a small Penryn update within the next few weeks but with a slight case redesign (dark keyboard, wide trackpad, etc.) and then the Montevina upgrade (8GB RAM, Blu-Ray DVD, etc.) won't happen until October/November - maybe July/August if we're lucky - but will not change the case design again.



    I don't see Apple release new MacBook Pros in February and again in May/June. Therefore the Montevina update will have to wait longer. While likely most PC notebook vendors will have their Montevina offerings available in May/June.

    It'll be the same waiting game as when Merom first came out.



    Is that what people expect to happen?
  • Reply 31 of 98
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Somebody explain to me the significance of Montevina platform.



    I don't know why this is such a big deal.



    I really doubt Apple will take the whole montevina platform anyway. They didn't take all of the SR platform when it came out.



    I think all Apple are interested in is the cpus. I don't see the Wimax chipset going in any of the laptops.
  • Reply 32 of 98
    correct me if im wrong but i thought "montevina" chipset nativly supported higher RAM speeds and the penryn?



    im not too sure but that is what i have come to belive.
  • Reply 33 of 98
    mjteixmjteix Posts: 563member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Name101 View Post


    correct me if im wrong but i thought "montevina" chipset nativly supported higher RAM speeds and the penryn?



    im not too sure but that is what i have come to belive.



    I think that Montevina is worth the move:

    - faster chips for the standard voltage it's going from 2.1-2.6 to 2.26-2.8 and the lower two (2.2.6-2.40) are only 25W vs, 35W with the penryn/Santa Rosa combo. X versions will go up to 3.06GHz and there will be a quad at around 2.53GHz in Q3.

    - faster FSB (from 800 to 1066)

    - faster and less power hungry RAM from DDR2-667 to DDR3 up to 1066

    - better GMA from X3100 to X4500

    - even better power management

    - small package versions (great for the MBAir but also for the MB and Mac mini or other designs)



    IMO it's going to penryn/santa rosa that doesn't make much sense, but since Montavina is 5 months away and that Apple ships 1M santarosa Macs (MB, MBP, iMac) per quarter and that current penryns are a just a drop in, they could put those in the current Macs (silent update) and then make more noise for the Montevina ones starting late may/early june with the MBP.
  • Reply 34 of 98
    how about moveing to a video card with it's own ram.



    the $1500 mac book should have one and there is no way that a $2000 laptop is going to have on board video.
  • Reply 35 of 98
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mjteix View Post


    I think that Montevina is worth the move:

    - faster chips for the standard voltage it's going from 2.1-2.6 to 2.26-2.8 and the lower two (2.2.6-2.40) are only 25W vs, 35W with the penryn/Santa Rosa combo. X versions will go up to 3.06GHz and there will be a quad at around 2.53GHz in Q3.

    - faster FSB (from 800 to 1066)

    - faster and less power hungry RAM from DDR2-667 to DDR3 up to 1066

    - better GMA from X3100 to X4500

    - even better power management

    - small package versions (great for the MBAir but also for the MB and Mac mini or other designs)



    IMO it's going to penryn/santa rosa that doesn't make much sense, but since Montavina is 5 months away and that Apple ships 1M santarosa Macs (MB, MBP, iMac) per quarter and that current penryns are a just a drop in, they could put those in the current Macs (silent update) and then make more noise for the Montevina ones starting late may/early june with the MBP.



    Well maybe I'm wrong. Those will be some nice improvements.



    I really don't know why the initial penryn clockspeeds aren't higher. This goes for the xenons in the Mac Pros as well. Hell old 65nm C2D chips easily overclock to 3.6 ghz, without exotic cooling. I guess with AMD being in such a non competitive state, Intel feel no pressure to push the limits of their chips.
  • Reply 36 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post


    It'll be the same waiting game as when Merom first came out.



    Is that what people expect to happen?



    That is most likely what will happen in my opinion... But I think that it will be a lot longer than most people seem to be thinking when it comes to HDMI and Blu-Ray...
  • Reply 37 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    Well maybe I'm wrong. Those will be some nice improvements.



    I really don't know why the initial penryn clockspeeds aren't higher. This goes for the xenons in the Mac Pros as well. Hell old 65nm C2D chips easily overclock to 3.6 ghz, without exotic cooling. I guess with AMD being in such a non competitive state, Intel feel no pressure to push the limits of their chips.



    Either Intel is not feeling threatened, or they know that they can sell them at the current speeds now, and then bump them later and charge more for them...
  • Reply 38 of 98
    dentondenton Posts: 725member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by opnsource View Post


    You cannot compare ANY of Apple's Mac Products with the iPod line. Especially the nano or the shuffle! Just because 10 year old girls like the colors of the nano does not mean that it would work well for a laptop.



    I know only two people with a new Nano: my father-in-law and I both (independently) went for green. I'm not sure that either of us fit in your "ten year-old girl" category.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tailpipe View Post


    Also seen lurking in the corridors of Cupertino was an aluminum MacBook 13". Initially available in silver, my source reckons annodised black, blue, pink and other colours will be available around September.



    I might be sorely tempted if a MB was available in the same green as my Nano. I'd reserve judgment until I'd seen one in-the-flesh, so to speak, but I can imagine that would look quite slick.
  • Reply 39 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Denton View Post


    I might be sorely tempted if a MB was available in the same green as my Nano. I'd reserve judgment until I'd seen one in-the-flesh, so to speak, but I can imagine that would look quite slick.



    Which is exactly what I think Apple will try to do. I know they wont but I would like to see a price cut in the low end MacBook that will be really aimed at the larger consumer base to appeal to these people or give another temptation to go Mac. I don't mean much, maybe just $100 or so., put them just under $1,000 or so. Heck, even if it still have a Combo Drive, I would buy one I think (especially if the rumored tablet device doesn't exist or meet my needs).
  • Reply 40 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Denton View Post


    I know only two people with a new Nano: my father-in-law and I both (independently) went for green. I'm not sure that either of us fit in your "ten year-old girl" category.

    I might be sorely tempted if a MB was available in the same green as my Nano. I'd reserve judgment until I'd seen one in-the-flesh, so to speak, but I can imagine that would look quite slick.



    I know that I made a large generalization about the people who like the colors of the nano's. But my point still stands, Apple is going toward a more sophisticated lineup and going back to colors is a regression to the late '90s. Many people thought that when Apple created a sub notebook that they would make it look like the nano of the time, and guess what? IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! And I don't think they will start modeling the Macbook line after a portable music player. It may look slick in your mind's eye, but I would get my hopes up. In fact, I wouldn't even hope...
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