Mac OS 11 (Wine, etc)

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
So,



you guys think there is going to be a Mac OS 11? ...or rather will the OSX brand live on and will it be Mac OSX v11.0, etc?



Do you guys think Apple will include features such as Wine (natively run Windows apps directly in OSX, no emulation required) in future versions of Mac OS? I think so. I think Apple might buy them out, or at least join the Wine Club.



Is it too early to speculate on Mac OS 11 (or whatever its gonna be called)?
«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27
    mydomydo Posts: 1,888member
    I hope not. Since I installed Windows and Parallels my Mac is more annoying and I enjoy using it less.
  • Reply 2 of 27
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,219member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post


    ...



    Is it too early to speculate on Mac OS 11 (or whatever its gonna be called)?



    Yes. If Apple intended to change the name of its primary OS anytime soon, then it would have done so with the release of MacOS X 10.5 Leopard. The transition to Leopard was the biggest change since the transition from MacOS 9 to MacOS X 10.0.



    When Apple introduced MacOS X 10.0, it said that MacOS X would be the basis of its OS for the next 20 years. My understanding of Apple's comments when it released Leopard is that, for the foreseeable future, subsequent releases of MacOS X will be enhancements to Leopard. It is likely, therefore, that the MacOS X 10.x version scheme will continue at least as long.
  • Reply 3 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mydo View Post


    I hope not. Since I installed Windows and Parallels my Mac is more annoying and I enjoy using it less.



    Well, that the beauty of implementing something Wine-like down the road. You can forgo Windows entirely and run apps natively on OSX. No more launching Parallels or Windows, ever.



    In my case, I would run and install Internet Explorer and I would be set. I would save 5GB+ on my HDD by not having to use Parallels and Windows.



    btw...the only reason I would ever use IE (and why i even own parallels) is work-related.
  • Reply 4 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post


    Well, that the beauty of implementing something Wine-like down the road...



    Let me stop you right there...Wine or anything Wine-like is anything but beautiful.
  • Reply 5 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post


    Let me stop you right there...Wine or anything Wine-like is anything but beautiful.



    Why not? If we could cut the middleman down the road (Windows OS) and deal with the apps directly with OSX or OS11, then why not?



    Whats the purpose of running Parallels or VMware and Windows if you could have direct access to apps? I think it could be a huge selling point for switchers: "Hey, your 'legacy' windows apps work directly in OSX and run natively, mr.consumer, your life won't skip a beat upgrading to the better and easier to use Mac OSX!"
  • Reply 6 of 27
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,728member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post


    Why not? If we could cut the middleman down the road (Windows OS) and deal with the apps directly with OSX or OS11, then why not?



    Have you ever used Crossover for Mac OS? It is horrible. I think you underestimate the task of reverse-engineering an entire API. That effort is much better spent improving your own OS.



    What Apple really needs to do is focus on increasing worldwide Mac OS market share to at least 20% in order to end the marginalisation of the platform. Then there would be no need for Parallels, VMware or Wine/Crossover, as everyone would ensure their stuff was Mac OS compatible.
  • Reply 7 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Have you ever used Crossover for Mac OS? It is horrible. I think you underestimate the task of reverse-engineering an entire API. That effort is much better spent improving your own OS.



    What Apple really needs to do is focus on increasing worldwide Mac OS market share to at least 20% in order to end the marginalisation of the platform. Then there would be no need for Parallels, VMware or Wine/Crossover, as everyone would ensure their stuff was Mac OS compatible.



    Yea I guess. I never used Wine but heard decent things. If there was a good, working and stable version of something Wine-like, then how could it hurt Apple?
  • Reply 8 of 27
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,728member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post


    If there was a good, working and stable version of something Wine-like, then how could it hurt Apple?



    "Let's not bother making our app OS X native - it runs Windows apps now"
  • Reply 9 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    "Let's not bother making our app OS X native - it runs Windows apps now"



    You kind of have a point. but I doubt developers would ignore a market that has been growing 30% year over year recently as opposed to the declining PC market.
  • Reply 10 of 27
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,219member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    "Let's not bother making our app OS X native - it runs Windows apps now"



    The ability to run Windows apps in OS/2 Warp is generally credited as a major reason that few OS/2 apps were developed. The lack dearth of OS/2 apps contributed to the demise of IBM's operating system.
  • Reply 11 of 27
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post


    You kind of have a point. but I doubt developers would ignore a market that has been growing 30% year over year recently as opposed to the declining PC market.



    Growth rate really doesn't mean much to them... at least compared to actual market size. That's what really matters to third party developers in a mature market.



    I consider WINE to be a painful workaround, and one that is no longer necessary now that we're on the same hardware and have good virtual machine technologies. By no longer necessary, what I really mean is that it would be a mistake for apple to offer such a product. By it's very nature, it would be nearly impossible to make "just work". Why bother now that hardware virtualization provides a far better end result?
  • Reply 12 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dfiler View Post


    Growth rate really doesn't mean much to them... at least compared to actual market size. That's what really matters to third party developers in a mature market.



    I consider WINE to be a painful workaround, and one that is no longer necessary now that we're on the same hardware and have good virtual machine technologies. By no longer necessary, what I really mean is that it would be a mistake for apple to offer such a product. By it's very nature, it would be nearly impossible to make "just work". Why bother now that hardware virtualization provides a far better end result?



    I meant for it to be as an option for legacy PC software. Kind of a transition element that would be discontinued after a while, much like what was done with Classic when OSX first came out. I thought it would ease the transition from PC to Mac for alotta people, but hopefully by then, any app they want would be available for the Mac anyways.
  • Reply 13 of 27
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,219member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dfiler View Post


    ...



    I consider WINE to be a painful workaround, and one that is no longer necessary now that we're on the same hardware and have good virtual machine technologies. ...



    No. WINE was developed primarily on the Intel version of Linux running for commodity Wintel PCs. As you should know, WINE Is Not an Emulator. It is an opensource effort to reverse engineer the Windows APIs to allow Windows apps to run as native Linux applications. This is how Corel WordPerfect runs on Linux. To the extent that Windows APIs are accurately reverse-engineered, running Windows apps on Linux via WINE should be no more painful than running Windows apps on Windows.
  • Reply 14 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


    No. WINE was developed primarily on the Intel version of Linux running for commodity Wintel PCs. As you should know, WINE Is Not an Emulator. It is an opensource effort to reverse engineer the Windows APIs to allow Windows apps to run as native Linux applications. This is how Corel WordPerfect runs on Linux. To the extent that Windows APIs are accurately reverse-engineered, running Windows apps on Linux via WINE should be no more painful than running Windows apps on Windows.



    Thats what I heard and thought until a bunch of people here pooped my party
  • Reply 15 of 27
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


    No. WINE was developed primarily on the Intel version of Linux running for commodity Wintel PCs. As you should know, WINE Is Not an Emulator. It is an opensource effort to reverse engineer the Windows APIs to allow Windows apps to run as native Linux applications. This is how Corel WordPerfect runs on Linux. To the extent that Windows APIs are accurately reverse-engineered, running Windows apps on Linux via WINE should be no more painful than running Windows apps on Windows.



    "No" what?



    But at least you passed the vocabulary quiz.
  • Reply 16 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post


    Why not? If we could cut the middleman down the road (Windows OS) and deal with the apps directly with OSX or OS11, then why not?



    Whats the purpose of running Parallels or VMware and Windows if you could have direct access to apps? I think it could be a huge selling point for switchers: "Hey, your 'legacy' windows apps work directly in OSX and run natively, mr.consumer, your life won't skip a beat upgrading to the better and easier to use Mac OSX!"



    Wine isn't cutting out the Middleman.



    WINE IS THE MIDDLEMAN.



    It's an Emulation Layer.
  • Reply 17 of 27
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,728member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Wine isn't cutting out the Middleman.



    WINE IS THE MIDDLEMAN.



    It's an Emulation Layer.



    No, really, it isn't. WINE stands for WINE Is Not an Emulator. It doesn't emulate. It is not an emulation layer. Emulation is not involved. It is an alternative implementation of a subset of the Windows API, and it runs natively (no emulation) on Intel hardware.



    The reason it (and Crossover, which is based on WINE) is horrible is because it is just a subset of the API, not the whole thing. This means that there are incompatibilities all over the place. It's also quite slow (but not because it's emulating!).
  • Reply 18 of 27
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    No matter it's name, WINE is still emulating APIs.
  • Reply 19 of 27
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,728member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dfiler View Post


    No matter it's name, WINE is still emulating APIs.



    No it isn't. Emulation involves real-time translation from one instruction set to another, WINE doesn't do that.
  • Reply 20 of 27
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    WINE doesn't own the definition of "emulation".



    The word is also valid for referring to the emulation of software systems, not just hardware.
Sign In or Register to comment.