oh, puh-LEEEEEZ! you're gonna have to do better than that. How about 'fessing up to the most common IT arguments: "Macs are toy computers..." and "nobody uses Macs."
How about they are too secretive? Businesses need a five year road map of upcoming technology from a company.
Well let's see... In the IT arena, two things come to mind:
1- Apple UNIX Server (not OSX), disappeared into thin air with all support and updates.
2- Apple WebObjects have been greaty marginalized. It was heavily marketted in the late 90's and into early 2000's, now it only gets compatability updates.
Other things are addressing Server software issues. Permissions for example, had many shortcomings in OSX Server that took years to address. eg when propegating permissions while someone on your network happens to be saving a file crashes your server, this problem has never been fixed since the launch or OSX Server.
I hope Apple continues updating the XRAID's firmware for at-least the next 4 years. When IT departments invest in highend technology such as the XSERVE or the XRAID, they plan to keep them for at least 8 years.
Most ludicrous examples I have ever heard.
Based on everything I have read today on Apple's XSan 2 site, I don't think that product, service or support is an issue. I would guess from this and other sources that this current strategy is well researched and constructed. Apple will shortly announce purpose of intention and for those that use these offerings, a much more robust and powerful system will or is immediately available.
How anybody could make such malicious judgements based on the meanderings of such malcontents that continually hog this site is beyond me.
Based on everything I have read today on Apple's XSan 2 site, I don't think that product, service or support is an issue.
Reading about the Promise RAID system, they provide the support, not Apple. So you have lost that single point of contact for SAN support. Not a good thing.
Xserve RAID vanishes without a peep. Apple is absolutely clueless about what high end customers need. I guess high end storage is a "hobby" too.
<scratching head> I don't get it.
Maybe Apple does know what high-end customers need and that is why they stopped selling the Xserve RAID. Now that Mac OS X 10.5 is a true UNIX, Apple needs to make it easy for a business to move an Xserve into their environment.
Reading about the Promise RAID system, they provide the support, not Apple. So you have lost that single point of contact for SAN support. Not a good thing.
Isn't it interesting that every day, we keep getting the same bunch of complainers complaining just about everything that Apple does. Looks like the Macworld readers are a lot more open minded.
Isn't it interesting that every day, we keep getting the same bunch of complainers complaining just about everything that Apple does. Looks like the Macworld readers are a lot more open minded.
I don't why John Welch's opinion matters more than anyone else's. Or why you have a problem with us sharing our opinion here, but he seems to point out the complaints that were expressed here, and in fact specifically mentioned the support contract issues that I brought up with two vendors involved.
Since it hasn't been asked yet, what company do you work for that needs a 5 year plan, demenas? (If you don't mind me asking. It might put this argument to a rest.)
Since it hasn't been asked yet, what company do you work for that needs a 5 year plan, demenas? (If you don't mind me asking. It might put this argument to a rest.)
It's one of the largest healthcare providers in the U.S. We have 6,000 people in IT alone. I work in the Storage Engineering area, where we manage about 8,000 fibre ports and 5 or 6 petabytes of data. The 6 year plans are more short-term, there are Architectural groups working with the businesses to design their needs 15 years out.
It's one of the largest healthcare providers in the U.S. We have 6,000 people in IT alone. I work in the Storage Engineering area, where we manage about 8,000 fibre ports and 5 or 6 petabytes of data. The 6 year plans are more short-term, there are Architectural groups working with the businesses to design their needs 15 years out.
Steve
Your absolutely right, the place you work at (and healthcare providers in general) would require long term plans like those. It makes a lot of sense, though I wish I could have guessed it. While I generally agree with Melgross on his estimate, where you work, that would matter a lot more.
I don't why John Welch's opinion matters more than anyone else's. Or why you have a problem with us sharing our opinion here, but he seems to point out the complaints that were expressed here, and in fact specifically mentioned the support contract issues that I brought up with two vendors involved.
Steve
I find his credentials more plausible than anybody posting here including yours.
Comments
They rethink and modify their hardware strategies on a yearly basis.
Exactly! and in the IT world this is big risk.
oh, puh-LEEEEEZ! you're gonna have to do better than that. How about 'fessing up to the most common IT arguments: "Macs are toy computers..." and "nobody uses Macs."
How about they are too secretive? Businesses need a five year road map of upcoming technology from a company.
Steve
Apple's trying to bring more 3rd party enterprise vendors into their pool.
They rethink and modify their hardware strategies on a yearly basis.
Promise is an "enterprise vendor"??
I thought they made those cheap IDE and SATA RAID controllers for PC hobbyists, and had a lousy reputation?
Steve
Well let's see... In the IT arena, two things come to mind:
1- Apple UNIX Server (not OSX), disappeared into thin air with all support and updates.
2- Apple WebObjects have been greaty marginalized. It was heavily marketted in the late 90's and into early 2000's, now it only gets compatability updates.
Other things are addressing Server software issues. Permissions for example, had many shortcomings in OSX Server that took years to address. eg when propegating permissions while someone on your network happens to be saving a file crashes your server, this problem has never been fixed since the launch or OSX Server.
I hope Apple continues updating the XRAID's firmware for at-least the next 4 years. When IT departments invest in highend technology such as the XSERVE or the XRAID, they plan to keep them for at least 8 years.
Most ludicrous examples I have ever heard.
Based on everything I have read today on Apple's XSan 2 site, I don't think that product, service or support is an issue. I would guess from this and other sources that this current strategy is well researched and constructed. Apple will shortly announce purpose of intention and for those that use these offerings, a much more robust and powerful system will or is immediately available.
How anybody could make such malicious judgements based on the meanderings of such malcontents that continually hog this site is beyond me.
Wow
Xserve RAID vanishes without a peep. Apple is absolutely clueless about what high end customers need. I guess high end storage is a "hobby" too.
<scratching head> I don't get it.
They should have rebranded it as "iRaid: 5,000,000 movies in your closet".
Most ludicrous examples I have ever heard.
Based on everything I have read today on Apple's XSan 2 site, I don't think that product, service or support is an issue.
Reading about the Promise RAID system, they provide the support, not Apple. So you have lost that single point of contact for SAN support. Not a good thing.
Steve
Wow
Xserve RAID vanishes without a peep. Apple is absolutely clueless about what high end customers need. I guess high end storage is a "hobby" too.
<scratching head> I don't get it.
Maybe Apple does know what high-end customers need and that is why they stopped selling the Xserve RAID. Now that Mac OS X 10.5 is a true UNIX, Apple needs to make it easy for a business to move an Xserve into their environment.
Reading about the Promise RAID system, they provide the support, not Apple. So you have lost that single point of contact for SAN support. Not a good thing.
Steve
Certainly would take John Welch's opinion over all the malcontents posting here. http://www.macworld.com/article/1321..._analysis.html
Besides there are excellent reasons Apple went this way. http://www.macworld.com/article/1321...8/02/raid.html
Isn't it interesting that every day, we keep getting the same bunch of complainers complaining just about everything that Apple does. Looks like the Macworld readers are a lot more open minded.
Certainly would take John Welch's opinion over all the malcontents posting here. http://www.macworld.com/article/1321..._analysis.html
Besides there are excellent reasons Apple went this way. http://www.macworld.com/article/1321...8/02/raid.html
Isn't it interesting that every day, we keep getting the same bunch of complainers complaining just about everything that Apple does. Looks like the Macworld readers are a lot more open minded.
I don't why John Welch's opinion matters more than anyone else's. Or why you have a problem with us sharing our opinion here, but he seems to point out the complaints that were expressed here, and in fact specifically mentioned the support contract issues that I brought up with two vendors involved.
Steve
How about they are too secretive? Businesses need a five year road map of upcoming technology from a company.
Steve
Three years.
Promise is an "enterprise vendor"??
I thought they made those cheap IDE and SATA RAID controllers for PC hobbyists, and had a lousy reputation?
Steve
Like a number of companies, such as Cisco, Hp, and others, they make a range of equipment.
Three years.
We're working on 6 year plans right now.
Steve
We're working on 6 year plans right now.
Steve
No one can work a 6 year hardware plan.
No one can work a 6 year hardware plan.
Speak of only what you know about.
Thanks.
Steve
Speak of only what you know about.
Thanks.
Steve
I do, and you should do the same.
I do, and you should do the same.
I do. You have no way to know my company's operations and what we're doing.
Thank you.
Steve
Since it hasn't been asked yet, what company do you work for that needs a 5 year plan, demenas? (If you don't mind me asking. It might put this argument to a rest.)
It's one of the largest healthcare providers in the U.S. We have 6,000 people in IT alone. I work in the Storage Engineering area, where we manage about 8,000 fibre ports and 5 or 6 petabytes of data. The 6 year plans are more short-term, there are Architectural groups working with the businesses to design their needs 15 years out.
Steve
It's one of the largest healthcare providers in the U.S. We have 6,000 people in IT alone. I work in the Storage Engineering area, where we manage about 8,000 fibre ports and 5 or 6 petabytes of data. The 6 year plans are more short-term, there are Architectural groups working with the businesses to design their needs 15 years out.
Steve
Your absolutely right, the place you work at (and healthcare providers in general) would require long term plans like those. It makes a lot of sense, though I wish I could have guessed it. While I generally agree with Melgross on his estimate, where you work, that would matter a lot more.
I don't why John Welch's opinion matters more than anyone else's. Or why you have a problem with us sharing our opinion here, but he seems to point out the complaints that were expressed here, and in fact specifically mentioned the support contract issues that I brought up with two vendors involved.
Steve
I find his credentials more plausible than anybody posting here including yours.