I'm guessing you've never seen this app. It opens and closes only one window at a time. open, close, open, close, open, close... Thus, memory is not really an issue. This is just used to show how much slower Quartz draws the window, nothing more.
jimmac:
I said it before and I'll say it again: get over it. Drop it already. I'm not defending Scott or any other X-bashers. I'm just stating some simple facts. You want me to go into some detail for you?
The odd thing is Apple kind of went Microsofts old direction by having a GUI layered over an OS(OSX over Unix) just like Winblows over DOS, while Microsoft went Apples old way(core OS(XP) without anything underneath it(like the old MacOS.
Would it have been better if Apple bought BeOS instead? The one good thing about OSX is that geeks like it because of Unix. For the rest of us it remains to be seen. I now have OSX 10.0 on my G4 400 and even though its not 10.1 it isn't terribly slow, but I still don't like the GUI-its too busy and not as smart a layout as OS9. But if it proves to be stable, then I can live with its faults. Especially if AOL doesn't crash at least once EVERY goddamn night!!!!...............................
<strong>The odd thing is Apple kind of went Microsofts old direction by having a GUI layered over an OS(OSX over Unix) just like Winblows over DOS, while Microsoft went Apples old way(core OS(XP) without anything underneath it(like the old MacOS.
[quote] A friend of mine on Windows said that my AIM text was huge where it was so small on my side? What am I doing wrong? <hr></blockquote>
I have no clue why this is, but when you copy paste text from IE to AIM, the test is HUGE! Its weird... the only fix is to manually set the size of the font every time you c/p from IE into AIM... It may happen with other apps, but the IE/AIM combo is the only bug I've seen... Its weird because the size looks normal to us... hth
No need for the big brother routine as I would guess I'm probably twice your age.
No, I'm not trying to pick a fight with Scott H ( or you ) it's just that I get a little tired of the misinformation you read on these boards ( and he is a bit of a broken record ).
Your statement of fact can only be based on supposition unless :
A. You actually wrote code for OS X.
B. Are on Apple's board of directors and saw a presentation about the limitations of OS X 's GUI.
C. Had one of junkyard dawg's drunken parties with an Apple employee.
During the last year I've read many technical descriptions about why OS X's GUI wouldn't get any faster on the same hardware. Guess what?
They were wrong.
It's why I come here less, and less. I realize a lot of people here don't have an open mind and think they know everything. When I read the torrent of negative statements from someone like Scott H
I'm compelled to comment.
I wouldn't wait with baited breath for him to stop ether ( unless you're fond of the color blue ).
Well, OSX will always be slow on a iMac/233 If you didnt notice, newer machines run it faster. I think of it like System 7.1, which debut on machines of 16MHz. It was slow, as newer machines came out, it became faster. Same situation with OSX. People thought system 7.x had alot of useless color, much like people think OSX GUI is too much.
"...and always will be. "
OSX isnt perfect by far, but that doesnt mean it wont reach maturity.
[quote] I have also noticed that the mouse speed is slow even at the highest setting. This pisses me off. <hr></blockquote>
Try USB Overdrive, you can find it at versiontracker.com. It not only provides adjustments for mouse speed, but acceleration as well, and many other settings for mapping buttons.
It's the best piece of shareware I've ever downloaded.
Well, OSX will always be slow on a iMac/233 If you didnt notice, newer machines run it faster. I think of it like System 7.1, which debut on machines of 16MHz. It was slow, as newer machines came out, it became faster. Same situation with OSX. People thought system 7.x had alot of useless color, much like people think OSX GUI is too much.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's slower on faster systems too. THat's the point. OS X is way slower than 9. Java is a dog. OS X is slow and a step backwards for speed.
[quote]Originally posted by MajorMatt:
<strong>"...and always will be. "
OSX isnt perfect by far, but that doesnt mean it wont reach maturity. </strong><hr></blockquote>
And I wont get there if give Apple a pass and don't hold their feet to the fire to get them to make the OS better.
It's slower on faster systems too. THat's the point. OS X is way slower than 9. Java is a dog. OS X is slow and a step backwards for speed.<hr></blockquote>
OS X is extremely fast on the 933MHz and Dual GHz G4s.
Click, click.......click, click..........click, click......... You see, I'm past trying to explain anything to this guy. how can you understand what you don't want to. What we have here is something that is based on personal bias not logic. Otherwise why would he make statements about the future of OS X that he couldn't possibly know?
OS X is slow click, click.......it will never be finished.....cliclk, click.... it will always be this way.......click, click.......
Now, we all know OSX is less responsive than OS9. This OS is designed to last us the next 15 years, where OS9 is built upon the OS7 Kernel (from 1991) Obviously, OS9 is gonna be much faster, its less taxing ( and also less powerful by far)
OSX features are built for the future, for Apple to build a poor base for an OS for the next 15 to make it "really fast" for the recent and even current (to some degree) line of machines is a poor choice.
Perhaps the power of X will allow capabilities we cant even dream of now, but this wouldnt be possible if Apple didnt aim for the future.
If you like OS9 better, then use it. However, I wont have to deal with frequent crashes and limitations borne of 1991 technology.
I actually find OSX faster to work with because of the multitasking. Try to type a paper while launching three other apps in OS9. Not gonna happen.
Heh, you bring up a good point, Scott! I wonder which OS Apple will use in future "Pentium-crushing" bake-offs. We're sure to see a new bake-off when Photoshop 7 finally ships.
Yes that's right, crackpots always believe the facts are solidly behind them.
Especially if they are facts about events that haven't happened yet.
Say they have a bake off sometime in the future. How do you know what the state of OS X will be then? The answer is you don't, any more than I do.
If SJ declares OS X finished this summer as is the current plan and the GUI is still the same on the same hardware then you can definately say " the GUI in OS X is slow ( compared to OS 9 ) on current hardware ".
And as far as being right so far........well we won't even go into that one. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>If SJ declares OS X finished this summer as is the current plan and the GUI is still the same on the same hardware then you can definately say " the GUI in OS X is slow ( compared to OS 9 ) on current hardware ".</strong><hr></blockquote>He can be taught!
Why is it so hard for you to realize that we're talking about present-tense, not some undetermined point in the future? OSX is *relatively* slower today. Tomorrow that may change, but for now it is slower. Because the GUI is slow, other things can be dragged down and the whole experience overall can "feel" slower.
<strong>Man. I have the facts solidly on my side yet I'm the crackpot! I can't wait to see Photoshop OS 9 vs Photoshop OS X bake off. I'm sure I wont though.
I'd love to be wrong but so far I'm not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The problem isn't that you say OS X has a long way to go, it's the incessant harping and FUD spreading that makes you a crackpot.
Comments
I'm guessing you've never seen this app. It opens and closes only one window at a time. open, close, open, close, open, close... Thus, memory is not really an issue. This is just used to show how much slower Quartz draws the window, nothing more.
jimmac:
I said it before and I'll say it again: get over it. Drop it already. I'm not defending Scott or any other X-bashers. I'm just stating some simple facts. You want me to go into some detail for you?
[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
Would it have been better if Apple bought BeOS instead? The one good thing about OSX is that geeks like it because of Unix. For the rest of us it remains to be seen. I now have OSX 10.0 on my G4 400 and even though its not 10.1 it isn't terribly slow, but I still don't like the GUI-its too busy and not as smart a layout as OS9. But if it proves to be stable, then I can live with its faults. Especially if AOL doesn't crash at least once EVERY goddamn night!!!!...............................
<strong>The odd thing is Apple kind of went Microsofts old direction by having a GUI layered over an OS(OSX over Unix) just like Winblows over DOS, while Microsoft went Apples old way(core OS(XP) without anything underneath it(like the old MacOS.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not really, b/c UNIX doesn't suck.
I have no clue why this is, but when you copy paste text from IE to AIM, the test is HUGE! Its weird... the only fix is to manually set the size of the font every time you c/p from IE into AIM... It may happen with other apps, but the IE/AIM combo is the only bug I've seen... Its weird because the size looks normal to us... hth
-Paul
p.s. have fun on your new computer...
No need for the big brother routine as I would guess I'm probably twice your age.
No, I'm not trying to pick a fight with Scott H ( or you ) it's just that I get a little tired of the misinformation you read on these boards ( and he is a bit of a broken record ).
Your statement of fact can only be based on supposition unless :
A. You actually wrote code for OS X.
B. Are on Apple's board of directors and saw a presentation about the limitations of OS X 's GUI.
C. Had one of junkyard dawg's drunken parties with an Apple employee.
During the last year I've read many technical descriptions about why OS X's GUI wouldn't get any faster on the same hardware. Guess what?
They were wrong.
It's why I come here less, and less. I realize a lot of people here don't have an open mind and think they know everything. When I read the torrent of negative statements from someone like Scott H
I'm compelled to comment.
I wouldn't wait with baited breath for him to stop ether ( unless you're fond of the color blue ).
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]
[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
Well, OSX will always be slow on a iMac/233 If you didnt notice, newer machines run it faster. I think of it like System 7.1, which debut on machines of 16MHz. It was slow, as newer machines came out, it became faster. Same situation with OSX. People thought system 7.x had alot of useless color, much like people think OSX GUI is too much.
"...and always will be. "
OSX isnt perfect by far, but that doesnt mean it wont reach maturity.
Try USB Overdrive, you can find it at versiontracker.com. It not only provides adjustments for mouse speed, but acceleration as well, and many other settings for mapping buttons.
It's the best piece of shareware I've ever downloaded.
<strong>"OS X is way to slow and unfinished"
Well, OSX will always be slow on a iMac/233 If you didnt notice, newer machines run it faster. I think of it like System 7.1, which debut on machines of 16MHz. It was slow, as newer machines came out, it became faster. Same situation with OSX. People thought system 7.x had alot of useless color, much like people think OSX GUI is too much.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's slower on faster systems too. THat's the point. OS X is way slower than 9. Java is a dog. OS X is slow and a step backwards for speed.
[quote]Originally posted by MajorMatt:
<strong>"...and always will be. "
OSX isnt perfect by far, but that doesnt mean it wont reach maturity.
And I wont get there if give Apple a pass and don't hold their feet to the fire to get them to make the OS better.
It's slower on faster systems too. THat's the point. OS X is way slower than 9. Java is a dog. OS X is slow and a step backwards for speed.<hr></blockquote>
OS X is extremely fast on the 933MHz and Dual GHz G4s.
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: EmAn ]</p>
<strong>
OS X is extremely fast on the 933MHz and Dual GHz G4s.
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: EmAn ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yet slower than OS 9.
OS X is slow click, click.......it will never be finished.....cliclk, click.... it will always be this way.......click, click.......
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
OSX features are built for the future, for Apple to build a poor base for an OS for the next 15 to make it "really fast" for the recent and even current (to some degree) line of machines is a poor choice.
Perhaps the power of X will allow capabilities we cant even dream of now, but this wouldnt be possible if Apple didnt aim for the future.
If you like OS9 better, then use it. However, I wont have to deal with frequent crashes and limitations borne of 1991 technology.
I actually find OSX faster to work with because of the multitasking. Try to type a paper while launching three other apps in OS9. Not gonna happen.
I'd love to be wrong but so far I'm not.
Especially if they are facts about events that haven't happened yet.
Say they have a bake off sometime in the future. How do you know what the state of OS X will be then? The answer is you don't, any more than I do.
If SJ declares OS X finished this summer as is the current plan and the GUI is still the same on the same hardware then you can definately say " the GUI in OS X is slow ( compared to OS 9 ) on current hardware ".
And as far as being right so far........well we won't even go into that one. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
<strong>If SJ declares OS X finished this summer as is the current plan and the GUI is still the same on the same hardware then you can definately say " the GUI in OS X is slow ( compared to OS 9 ) on current hardware ".</strong><hr></blockquote>He can be taught!
Why is it so hard for you to realize that we're talking about present-tense, not some undetermined point in the future? OSX is *relatively* slower today. Tomorrow that may change, but for now it is slower. Because the GUI is slow, other things can be dragged down and the whole experience overall can "feel" slower.
I'm finished beating this horse. Are you?
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
<strong>Man. I have the facts solidly on my side yet I'm the crackpot! I can't wait to see Photoshop OS 9 vs Photoshop OS X bake off. I'm sure I wont though.
I'd love to be wrong but so far I'm not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The problem isn't that you say OS X has a long way to go, it's the incessant harping and FUD spreading that makes you a crackpot.