Thanks for the information. I was aware of the encryption changes, but not the hardware changes that need to take place. I can always dream of a future when these upgrades are resolved and blue ray will be working just like the DVD standard does now. I know it will take a while, so I will wait and enjoy what I have now.
Yeah, I'm kind of curious myself how they will do it. Will they (computer industry) implement HDCP on DVI, or will they start replacing DVI ports with HDMI connections? HDMI is really just DVI with audio and support for HDCP. So you could put an HDMI port on the computer and include an HDMI to DVI adaptor, just like Apple currently includes a DVI-to-VGA adaptor now. So you could still hook up your new computer to your older display, but would lose the HDCP support.
Also unknown is how far Apple will need to go to securing your Mac. For example, in Vista:
"Protecting copyrighted 'premium content' will be accomplished both by confirming an 'approved state' for each computer, free of potentially piracy-enabling software and hardware, and by encrypting certain types of media as they make their way through the computer."
The part about "confirming an approved state" of my computer is kinda frightening!
Edit: Here's a better, more recent article on issues with the HD content protection in Vista.
I'm also torn, I need a new notebook now, but i'd much rather tough it out if there's a case re-design, speed bump and whatnot in less than 5 months..
many good things will emerge in time, but one one whatnot you apparently shouldn't hold your breath for is even a BTO option to have a 7200 RPM HDD in a MacBook.
Apple is still focusing too much on not "competing with itself" to let its #1 seller "steal" MBP sales from Mac fans. The specmarks on the MB would just be too close and reveal you're not getting all that much more 'cept a bigger screen in the pricey model, which many don't really need.
The PC competitors, though, which increasingly are the direct competition as Macs go mainsteam are under no such constraints and I believe this artificial headroom constraint actually hurts overall potential Switcher sales, since contrary to some religious beliefs, effective computing can be carried out with a few hassles on Windows.
A bump from Santa Rosa and a fast HDD would get me off the schneid to drop a grand and a half I know.
Yeah, I'm kind of curious myself how they will do it. Will they (computer industry) implement HDCP on DVI, or will they start replacing DVI ports with HDMI connections? HDMI is really just DVI with audio and support for HDCP. So you could put an HDMI port on the computer and include an HDMI to DVI adaptor, just like Apple currently includes a DVI-to-VGA adaptor now. So you could still hook up your new computer to your older display, but would lose the HDCP support.
Also unknown is how far Apple will need to go to securing your Mac. For example, in Vista:
"Protecting copyrighted 'premium content' will be accomplished both by confirming an 'approved state' for each computer, free of potentially piracy-enabling software and hardware, and by encrypting certain types of media as they make their way through the computer."
The part about "confirming an approved state" of my computer is kinda frightening!
Ironically, this excessive use of HDCP seems to be helping online downloads take a firmer hold and hinder HD optical media gaining ground.
Why do you want BluRay on your laptop? Will you be able to see that much difference in video playback on a 15 inch screen?
If the content distributed through disks is the same with what I have seen from Apple's HD trailers, then yes, the difference is substantial, even on a 13" display, when we compare to simple DVD.
As a developer of data management software, systems and major databases, backup strategies using external storage devices have always been the weak link.
How many of us have
saved files to floppies that we now cannot open.
moved on to tape which unless we find the tape drive, we now can't open.
gone to CDs which we can't find to open.
rushed to DVDs which we were reluctant to write to until we had enough data to fill them
So now we are faced with the possibility of a medium that can virtually hold our life's activity on a few small disks. For the same reasons as given above but at significantly higher costs, we have another option that can only further hinder us from properly backing up.
Personally, I think that products like Time Machine and Time Capsule will negate the need for CDs, DVD and Blu-ray disks for data storage. Certainly write-speed and prices will change, but today, Blu-ray appears as a poor choice against the likes of Time Capsule.
Good Fucking Game, I Just Bought My Penryn, And This Is The Shit They Bring Us Buyers? An Update 4 Months Later?
Don't worry- I think this rumor is merely a lame attempt to drive the stock price back up. Like Apple would really put out all these new machines in production only to replace them entirely in 4 months- dream on!
Why do you want BluRay on your laptop? Will you be able to see that much difference in video playback on a 15 inch screen? Ir is it that you frequently find youself needing to burn 40 GB of data to a disk when you are at Starbucks?
Sorry for being flip, but I don't see the point of salivating over this.
I think the point is that people will be buying more and more movies in BR format now that the HD wars are settled. If I buy a movie on BR, I'd like to be able to watch it on my computer. So it's not that the laptops need BR quality, but that they need to be able to play BR media.
That article was obviously written by someone with no vision or sense of history. "Blu-Ray drives cost 4 times as much as DVD". Well, duh. New technologies are always expensive at first and then volumes bring the price down.
Good Fucking Game, I Just Bought My Penryn, And This Is The Shit They Bring Us Buyers? An Update 4 Months Later?
As other's have repeatedly stated on this and other boards, June is when other PC manufacturers will announce new hardware. It won't actually start shipping until probably 2 months later. So we are really talking about 6 months. Then take into account that these latest models were supposed to be released in Jan, but were delayed (apparently due to last minute changes by Intel on the CPU). 6-7 months is a very reasonable upgrade cycle.
I think the point is that people will be buying more and more movies in BR format now that the HD wars are settled. If I buy a movie on BR, I'd like to be able to watch it on my computer. So it's not that the laptops need BR quality, but that they need to be able to play BR media.
y'know, not having BluRay I hadn't even thought of this angle. Of all the things people have mentioned, this one makes the most sense.
Still, what is the added cost of a BluRay read and write drive in a notebook? I honestly don't know, but it has got to be up there. $200? $250? More?
How many people have a large library of BluRay titles? 2%? 1% Less?
Seems to me that for now, downloading HD content from iTunes would be more cost effective even if you would have to duplicate a few titles...
I am not saying Apple should never put BluRay drives in a laptop, just that I think it is a lot more hype from spec-hounds than need from users. If BluRay start to become a computer standard, then we will probably see them in the MBP.
I think the same thing about the SSD in the Air. The cost is extreme, the capacity is less and the weight and power saving is minimal. But Apple HAD to make it an option or there would have been zillions of posts about how Apple missed the boat and put out a "crippled machine." now that it is an option, people instead have to put up or shut up. Ill be interested to see how many people are paying for that "upgrade."
It may be true that you may not see any visual difference on a MB or MBP, but I have my MB connected to the 23" Cinema Display whenever I'm at home. I have so much more room to use Spaces and watch films. It is great! If I were to compare playing a regular DVD vs just seeing the HD quicktime movie trailers, there is such sharpness and more detail even at the 720p level. I have also seen the technical comparisons that have been shown and I am looking forward to the real thing.
With all that I have reading regarding this, I don't believe they will be in the June MBPs (although I would buy one then) until after Blue-Ray is available in the MP. The pros using the G5 will have the advantage of burning 50 GB of dual layer disks for their film, sound, or photography projects. This is quite and advantage of the standard DVD.
One more thing... Even with all the movie rental increases through iTunes and Apple TV, the extras you get on a regular DVD outweigh renting a movie through downloads. I would still rather go through Netflix or just buy the DVD if I knew I was going to watch it more that once. Then when Blue-Ray comes out there will be the extra channels for interactivity which even more are being standardized now. So, I imagine Apple has some work ahead of them getting the DVD player and Quicktime software and the OS up to speed with all of those changes. I am hoping that will be included in 10.5.3.
I am in no rush and can wait and will buy a MP and MBP when they are available with Blue-Ray.
I think the point is that people will be buying more and more movies in BR format now that the HD wars are settled. If I buy a movie on BR, I'd like to be able to watch it on my computer. So it's not that the laptops need BR quality, but that they need to be able to play BR media.
Yeah, I'm kind of curious myself how they will do it. Will they (computer industry) implement HDCP on DVI, or will they start replacing DVI ports with HDMI connections? HDMI is really just DVI with audio and support for HDCP. So you could put an HDMI port on the computer and include an HDMI to DVI adaptor, just like Apple currently includes a DVI-to-VGA adaptor now. So you could still hook up your new computer to your older display, but would lose the HDCP support.
I can really see the struggle now between a manufacturer and all the controls that BR has established. Maybe Sony will eventually minimize these DRM controls as the way of iTunes now that sells music with the PLUS which has no DRM and songs now cost the same. The only limit there is for the distribution without the DRM are from the labels themselves.
This will cause delays of all kinds. If Apple does switch over to HDCP that has the audio, maybe a refresh in the future with the Monitors will have speakers built in. Then all they would need would be a tuner. haha! Of course you can get a tuner through outside software now, but wouldn't it be nice to be built in.
I'll keep praying to the Gods... Maybe Zeus will have some influence!
As other's have repeatedly stated on this and other boards, June is when other PC manufacturers will announce new hardware. It won't actually start shipping until probably 2 months later. So we are really talking about 6 months. Then take into account that these latest models were supposed to be released in Jan, but were delayed (apparently due to last minute changes by Intel on the CPU). 6-7 months is a very reasonable upgrade cycle.
We also can't forget that Apple usually does have the upgrades for their MB in June/July because the school buying season for the coming year is usually in August. They have the first bulk shipments go out to the schools which causes some delays to the rest of us.
If I buy a Hi Def DVD, I'm not gonna wait until I'm flying someplace to watch it on my laptop. And if I've bought one and recently watched it on a HD TV, I'm not gonna pack it in my carry-on baggage so I can watch it again while I'm flying.
It's just my personal choice, of course, but I'd rather not pay for someone to shoehorn a Blu-Ray player/burner into a laptop when I can download a whole bunch of movies from iTunes and not have to carry anything besides the computer to watch them. Granted, the onscreen display of a downloaded film may not be as incredible as an HD disc, but I've yet to sit in an airplane for long where the visual quality of a movie on a laptop was what made my flight uncomfortable.
One minute we're wanting laptops that take up less space, and then next we're talking about schlepping a bunch of movies around the planet along with the computer. In my travel experience, I didn't so much want more movies to watch, but more legroom. And instead of taking HD discs to play on the flight, I'll be packing an extra set of underwear and socks for when I'm back on the ground and they've lost my luggage.
Comments
Thanks for the information. I was aware of the encryption changes, but not the hardware changes that need to take place. I can always dream of a future when these upgrades are resolved and blue ray will be working just like the DVD standard does now. I know it will take a while, so I will wait and enjoy what I have now.
Yeah, I'm kind of curious myself how they will do it. Will they (computer industry) implement HDCP on DVI, or will they start replacing DVI ports with HDMI connections? HDMI is really just DVI with audio and support for HDCP. So you could put an HDMI port on the computer and include an HDMI to DVI adaptor, just like Apple currently includes a DVI-to-VGA adaptor now. So you could still hook up your new computer to your older display, but would lose the HDCP support.
Also unknown is how far Apple will need to go to securing your Mac. For example, in Vista:
"Protecting copyrighted 'premium content' will be accomplished both by confirming an 'approved state' for each computer, free of potentially piracy-enabling software and hardware, and by encrypting certain types of media as they make their way through the computer."
The part about "confirming an approved state" of my computer is kinda frightening!
Edit: Here's a better, more recent article on issues with the HD content protection in Vista.
I'm also torn, I need a new notebook now, but i'd much rather tough it out if there's a case re-design, speed bump and whatnot in less than 5 months..
many good things will emerge in time, but one one whatnot you apparently shouldn't hold your breath for is even a BTO option to have a 7200 RPM HDD in a MacBook.
Apple is still focusing too much on not "competing with itself" to let its #1 seller "steal" MBP sales from Mac fans. The specmarks on the MB would just be too close and reveal you're not getting all that much more 'cept a bigger screen in the pricey model, which many don't really need.
The PC competitors, though, which increasingly are the direct competition as Macs go mainsteam are under no such constraints and I believe this artificial headroom constraint actually hurts overall potential Switcher sales, since contrary to some religious beliefs, effective computing can be carried out with a few hassles on Windows.
A bump from Santa Rosa and a fast HDD would get me off the schneid to drop a grand and a half I know.
Yeah, I'm kind of curious myself how they will do it. Will they (computer industry) implement HDCP on DVI, or will they start replacing DVI ports with HDMI connections? HDMI is really just DVI with audio and support for HDCP. So you could put an HDMI port on the computer and include an HDMI to DVI adaptor, just like Apple currently includes a DVI-to-VGA adaptor now. So you could still hook up your new computer to your older display, but would lose the HDCP support.
Also unknown is how far Apple will need to go to securing your Mac. For example, in Vista:
"Protecting copyrighted 'premium content' will be accomplished both by confirming an 'approved state' for each computer, free of potentially piracy-enabling software and hardware, and by encrypting certain types of media as they make their way through the computer."
The part about "confirming an approved state" of my computer is kinda frightening!
Ironically, this excessive use of HDCP seems to be helping online downloads take a firmer hold and hinder HD optical media gaining ground.
Why do you want BluRay on your laptop? Will you be able to see that much difference in video playback on a 15 inch screen?
If the content distributed through disks is the same with what I have seen from Apple's HD trailers, then yes, the difference is substantial, even on a 13" display, when we compare to simple DVD.
So you can watch a blu-ray disc.
There are some who think differently, i.e., Opinion: Top four reasons Blu-ray Disk will tank (http://computerworld.com/action/arti...8&pageNumber=1)
As a developer of data management software, systems and major databases, backup strategies using external storage devices have always been the weak link.
How many of us have
- saved files to floppies that we now cannot open.
- moved on to tape which unless we find the tape drive, we now can't open.
- gone to CDs which we can't find to open.
- rushed to DVDs which we were reluctant to write to until we had enough data to fill them
So now we are faced with the possibility of a medium that can virtually hold our life's activity on a few small disks. For the same reasons as given above but at significantly higher costs, we have another option that can only further hinder us from properly backing up.Personally, I think that products like Time Machine and Time Capsule will negate the need for CDs, DVD and Blu-ray disks for data storage. Certainly write-speed and prices will change, but today, Blu-ray appears as a poor choice against the likes of Time Capsule.
Good Fucking Game, I Just Bought My Penryn, And This Is The Shit They Bring Us Buyers? An Update 4 Months Later?
Don't worry- I think this rumor is merely a lame attempt to drive the stock price back up. Like Apple would really put out all these new machines in production only to replace them entirely in 4 months- dream on!
Why do you want BluRay on your laptop? Will you be able to see that much difference in video playback on a 15 inch screen? Ir is it that you frequently find youself needing to burn 40 GB of data to a disk when you are at Starbucks?
Sorry for being flip, but I don't see the point of salivating over this.
I think the point is that people will be buying more and more movies in BR format now that the HD wars are settled. If I buy a movie on BR, I'd like to be able to watch it on my computer. So it's not that the laptops need BR quality, but that they need to be able to play BR media.
Good Fucking Game, I Just Bought My Penryn, And This Is The Shit They Bring Us Buyers? An Update 4 Months Later?
1) Would you rather updates only come out once every year? Every two years? Every three years?
2) The frequency of updates only matters to those who only want to flaunt having the latest tech.
3) Even if Intel has Montevina rady by June it will still be at least two months before Apple readies their next update.
Good Fucking Game, I Just Bought My Penryn, And This Is The Shit They Bring Us Buyers? An Update 4 Months Later?
A rumored one. You've just bought a really nice machine.
There are some who think differently, i.e., Opinion: Top four reasons Blu-ray Disk will tank (http://computerworld.com/action/arti...8&pageNumber=2)
That article was obviously written by someone with no vision or sense of history. "Blu-Ray drives cost 4 times as much as DVD". Well, duh. New technologies are always expensive at first and then volumes bring the price down.
The rest of the article was equally inane.
Good Fucking Game, I Just Bought My Penryn, And This Is The Shit They Bring Us Buyers? An Update 4 Months Later?
As other's have repeatedly stated on this and other boards, June is when other PC manufacturers will announce new hardware. It won't actually start shipping until probably 2 months later. So we are really talking about 6 months. Then take into account that these latest models were supposed to be released in Jan, but were delayed (apparently due to last minute changes by Intel on the CPU). 6-7 months is a very reasonable upgrade cycle.
I think the point is that people will be buying more and more movies in BR format now that the HD wars are settled. If I buy a movie on BR, I'd like to be able to watch it on my computer. So it's not that the laptops need BR quality, but that they need to be able to play BR media.
y'know, not having BluRay I hadn't even thought of this angle. Of all the things people have mentioned, this one makes the most sense.
Still, what is the added cost of a BluRay read and write drive in a notebook? I honestly don't know, but it has got to be up there. $200? $250? More?
How many people have a large library of BluRay titles? 2%? 1% Less?
Seems to me that for now, downloading HD content from iTunes would be more cost effective even if you would have to duplicate a few titles...
I am not saying Apple should never put BluRay drives in a laptop, just that I think it is a lot more hype from spec-hounds than need from users. If BluRay start to become a computer standard, then we will probably see them in the MBP.
I think the same thing about the SSD in the Air. The cost is extreme, the capacity is less and the weight and power saving is minimal. But Apple HAD to make it an option or there would have been zillions of posts about how Apple missed the boat and put out a "crippled machine." now that it is an option, people instead have to put up or shut up. Ill be interested to see how many people are paying for that "upgrade."
It may be true that you may not see any visual difference on a MB or MBP, but I have my MB connected to the 23" Cinema Display whenever I'm at home. I have so much more room to use Spaces and watch films. It is great! If I were to compare playing a regular DVD vs just seeing the HD quicktime movie trailers, there is such sharpness and more detail even at the 720p level. I have also seen the technical comparisons that have been shown and I am looking forward to the real thing.
With all that I have reading regarding this, I don't believe they will be in the June MBPs (although I would buy one then) until after Blue-Ray is available in the MP. The pros using the G5 will have the advantage of burning 50 GB of dual layer disks for their film, sound, or photography projects. This is quite and advantage of the standard DVD.
One more thing... Even with all the movie rental increases through iTunes and Apple TV, the extras you get on a regular DVD outweigh renting a movie through downloads. I would still rather go through Netflix or just buy the DVD if I knew I was going to watch it more that once. Then when Blue-Ray comes out there will be the extra channels for interactivity which even more are being standardized now. So, I imagine Apple has some work ahead of them getting the DVD player and Quicktime software and the OS up to speed with all of those changes. I am hoping that will be included in 10.5.3.
I am in no rush and can wait and will buy a MP and MBP when they are available with Blue-Ray.
Thank you. Saved me a lot of typing.
I think the point is that people will be buying more and more movies in BR format now that the HD wars are settled. If I buy a movie on BR, I'd like to be able to watch it on my computer. So it's not that the laptops need BR quality, but that they need to be able to play BR media.
And thank you too.
Yeah, I'm kind of curious myself how they will do it. Will they (computer industry) implement HDCP on DVI, or will they start replacing DVI ports with HDMI connections? HDMI is really just DVI with audio and support for HDCP. So you could put an HDMI port on the computer and include an HDMI to DVI adaptor, just like Apple currently includes a DVI-to-VGA adaptor now. So you could still hook up your new computer to your older display, but would lose the HDCP support.
I can really see the struggle now between a manufacturer and all the controls that BR has established. Maybe Sony will eventually minimize these DRM controls as the way of iTunes now that sells music with the PLUS which has no DRM and songs now cost the same. The only limit there is for the distribution without the DRM are from the labels themselves.
This will cause delays of all kinds. If Apple does switch over to HDCP that has the audio, maybe a refresh in the future with the Monitors will have speakers built in. Then all they would need would be a tuner. haha! Of course you can get a tuner through outside software now, but wouldn't it be nice to be built in.
I'll keep praying to the Gods... Maybe Zeus will have some influence!
As other's have repeatedly stated on this and other boards, June is when other PC manufacturers will announce new hardware. It won't actually start shipping until probably 2 months later. So we are really talking about 6 months. Then take into account that these latest models were supposed to be released in Jan, but were delayed (apparently due to last minute changes by Intel on the CPU). 6-7 months is a very reasonable upgrade cycle.
We also can't forget that Apple usually does have the upgrades for their MB in June/July because the school buying season for the coming year is usually in August. They have the first bulk shipments go out to the schools which causes some delays to the rest of us.
It's just my personal choice, of course, but I'd rather not pay for someone to shoehorn a Blu-Ray player/burner into a laptop when I can download a whole bunch of movies from iTunes and not have to carry anything besides the computer to watch them. Granted, the onscreen display of a downloaded film may not be as incredible as an HD disc, but I've yet to sit in an airplane for long where the visual quality of a movie on a laptop was what made my flight uncomfortable.
One minute we're wanting laptops that take up less space, and then next we're talking about schlepping a bunch of movies around the planet along with the computer. In my travel experience, I didn't so much want more movies to watch, but more legroom. And instead of taking HD discs to play on the flight, I'll be packing an extra set of underwear and socks for when I'm back on the ground and they've lost my luggage.
http://images.apple.com/quicktime/qt...chs_live87.mov
Nothing really new. But thanks for the link.