Many less gears, no valves and no need for a switching mechanism...
sigh! yes i know, my first design was for that - but......um....I thought that would be too boring and not much of an engineering challenge
then I progressed to a pendulum.....one in which the arm carrying the ballast extended under gravity to provide mechanical advantage over the weightless one - which contracted to the fulcrum - so offered little resistance to being lifted.
Then I thought of this, the great advantage of this is that it can be very compact, and can be built tall with little footprint. Rotary things take up a lot of space and footprint. With this, you can make the ballast any shape, it could be a quarter meter wide and deep by 5 metres tall. Incidently for real, im designing them as back to back semi circular to make a complete circle falling down a central core. Once you have a completed module, say it was 5 metres square (or diameter - more surface area for the collectors) , you simply line them up in a straight line - as many as you want. These things need to be aligned in straight lines to point in the direction of the sun as it travells across the sky to maximise efficiency.
This is just a schematic of how it works, my envisiged design doesn't look much like what i've shown at the top, Its more of a cylindrical tower, where the sides are solar collectors which transfer heat via a heat pipes* to the water in the reservoir to heat it and the parabolic mirror is actually at the top of the tower like a satellite dish and beams focussed light via mirrors through the core to the base to create the steam.
Its just a bit of fun, and I wanted it to be an engineering challenge at the same time. Just to be really geeky im trying to find a way of incorperating a 'magnetic wankel' engine somewhere in it. Im toying with the idea of making the ballast spin as it falls to provide the rotation for the 'missing' magnet which needs to oscillate at a certain point to keep the magnet spinning!
Since that though, ive thought of a fourth idea, where the entire thing is built inside the heatsink of the stirling engine! - heatpipes would actually run through the falling ballast, superheat it during its descent - water stays liquid under pressure - and upon release at the bottom - would depressurize into steam and automatically rise to the top where it would be cooled back into water to repeat the cycle and the heat exchange power the stirling!...so many ideas so little time!
*been researching these - if you encase them in a vacuum - they can reach up to 3000 degrees centigrade!
Civilisations rise and fall. The Middle East was pretty far ahead of the pack several hundred years ago.
There were great civilizations in the middle east, yes. Since 1000AD, though, there haven't really been any. Regardless, today's Middle East is not a happy place.
Um yea. Planes and car contribute to greenhouse gases. Elevators are are elevatros why did you even bring them up At least they are electric.
I brought them up because they are mechanical, moving things that utilize stored power and which are very much part of today's world. You say that mechanical, moving things are passe: I say rubbish. You should look more into how these machines store power, because that's a big part of all of them.
For what it's worth, planes and cars do not need to burn fossil fuels. Without those examples, though, there are still plenty of other moving devices that are useful in today's world.
I brought them up because they are mechanical, moving things that utilize stored power and which are very much part of today's world. You say that mechanical, moving things are passe: I say rubbish. You should look more into how these machines store power, because that's a big part of all of them.
For what it's worth, planes and cars do not need to burn fossil fuels. Without those examples, though, there are still plenty of other moving devices that are useful in today's world.
For storing and retrieving power. Yea. Try to stay on topic. We're talking about renewable power generation and storage.
Mark, let's do a quick reality check: to create 1 kg of steam from boiling water, an energy of 2.26 MJ is needed (heat of evaporation). The potential energy of 1kg of mass at a height of 250 m is 2.5 kJ (m*g*h) or about 1 per mille of the invested energy.
It would be much easier to use solar energy to drive a pumped storage power station.
Not to defend Marc too much, but if he were to make this a heat pump -- that is not waste energy on converting the entire mass to steam, but rather use the fact that hot water is also lighter than cold water, the efficiency of this plan would go up immensely.
But this all gets back to my point that the energy generated is negligible... even with sterling engines...
Not to defend Marc too much, but if he were to make this a heat pump -- that is not waste energy on converting the entire mass to steam, but rather use the fact that hot water is also lighter than cold water, the efficiency of this plan would go up immensely.
But this all gets back to my point that the energy generated is negligible... even with sterling engines...
that wont work though, hot water doesn't defy gravity even though it does rise. The hot water would simply move up the return pipe to the equilibrium level of the water in the reservoir tank - The water in that tank cannot be at a higher level of the water draining out of the ballast, else it will fill it!
Mark, let's do a quick reality check: to create 1 kg of steam from boiling water, an energy of 2.26 MJ is needed (heat of evaporation). The potential energy of 1kg of mass at a height of 250 m is 2.5 kJ (m*g*h) or about 1 per mille of the invested energy.
It would be much easier to use solar energy to drive a pumped storage power station.
That might be true - but due to the conservation of energy, converting the steam back to water will release the 2.26MJ - hopefully this will occur at the heatblock of the stirling engine, which I reckon to have an efficiency of about 20% according to the carnot formula - which is better or about equal to using a PV cell to generate power - And then we have created a source of potential energy - however small- that can run a generator during the night when sunlight is not available to power the stirling engine.
I brought them up because they are mechanical, moving things that utilize stored power and which are very much part of today's world. You say that mechanical, moving things are passe: I say rubbish. You should look more into how these machines store power, because that's a big part of all of them.
For what it's worth, planes and cars do not need to burn fossil fuels. Without those examples, though, there are still plenty of other moving devices that are useful in today's world.
That might be true - but due to the conservation of energy, converting the steam back to water will release the 2.26MJ - hopefully this will occur at the heatblock of the stirling engine, which I reckon to have an efficiency of about 20% according to the carnot formula - which is better or about equal to using a PV cell to generate power - And then we have created a source of potential energy - however small- that can run a generator during the night when sunlight is not available to power the stirling engine.
I had thought about it, but frankly I believe the overhead in building a several hundred meter high structure strong enough to hold large Stirling machines - or steam turbines - plus a large water tank is by far greater than the possible energy gain due to gravity. And if you are going big scale, you need a large area for your collectors as well. A quick calculation with optimistic data for the Sahara (2.350 kWh/m^2/a) gives an average of 270 MW solar power for a square of 1km x 1km. Assuming we could convert this solar energy completely to produce steam, our 20% efficient engine could produce about 50 MW of power. The steam produced during one day, after dropping back as water from 250 m, would add an average of 0.25 MW to that.
On the other hand, if you produce really hot steam and forget about gravity, you might be able to get a thermal efficiency of maybe 50 %, or 130 MW.
Did any of you guys look at that PM article? The article shows that you can generate electricity using goethermal water that's only about 165 F.
Pretty nifty.
I did. It proves you can generate from natural sources using natural tricks - phase changes and gravity etc.
When you look over the net, you find a good range of clever systems that really make the most of renewable natural sources, and this has to be the way forward until we master fusion. Like everything, these systems are new ideas in their infancy, and just as the combustion engine has developed from a 0.5HP chugger to todays F1 units over 100 years, if we get on with it, im sure 30 years from now we could produce realistic Gigawatt designs.
I just want to make something I can sit in my backyard - just because I can. Im sure its pretty shit really, but if I got it to work that would be cool - even if it only ever powered my torch.
I looked up the heat of evaporation of some stuff after I read Berlepsch's critique. Seems water, though plentiful in supply and easy to handle is just about the worst you can get!
I have to stick to what I can make and get hold of easily - I dont have a licence for toxic chemicals and cant make high pressure steam vessels!
You should check the price of copper - I enquired about it for the heat exchangers and solar panel heaters (i want to roll my own - wheres the fun in buying prefab? £6500 per ton (or $12000 for you). Damn crazy!
that wont work though, hot water doesn't defy gravity even though it does rise. The hot water would simply move up the return pipe to the equilibrium level of the water in the reservoir tank - The water in that tank cannot be at a higher level of the water draining out of the ballast, else it will fill it!
It has to be converted to steam!
if it is a closed loop it will allow a continuous flow of water... like in old school radiators...
Comments
Why not just run an enclosed water wheel?
Many less gears, no valves and no need for a switching mechanism...
sigh! yes i know, my first design was for that - but......um....I thought that would be too boring and not much of an engineering challenge
then I progressed to a pendulum.....one in which the arm carrying the ballast extended under gravity to provide mechanical advantage over the weightless one - which contracted to the fulcrum - so offered little resistance to being lifted.
Then I thought of this, the great advantage of this is that it can be very compact, and can be built tall with little footprint. Rotary things take up a lot of space and footprint. With this, you can make the ballast any shape, it could be a quarter meter wide and deep by 5 metres tall. Incidently for real, im designing them as back to back semi circular to make a complete circle falling down a central core. Once you have a completed module, say it was 5 metres square (or diameter - more surface area for the collectors) , you simply line them up in a straight line - as many as you want. These things need to be aligned in straight lines to point in the direction of the sun as it travells across the sky to maximise efficiency.
This is just a schematic of how it works, my envisiged design doesn't look much like what i've shown at the top, Its more of a cylindrical tower, where the sides are solar collectors which transfer heat via a heat pipes* to the water in the reservoir to heat it and the parabolic mirror is actually at the top of the tower like a satellite dish and beams focussed light via mirrors through the core to the base to create the steam.
Its just a bit of fun, and I wanted it to be an engineering challenge at the same time. Just to be really geeky im trying to find a way of incorperating a 'magnetic wankel' engine somewhere in it. Im toying with the idea of making the ballast spin as it falls to provide the rotation for the 'missing' magnet which needs to oscillate at a certain point to keep the magnet spinning!
Since that though, ive thought of a fourth idea, where the entire thing is built inside the heatsink of the stirling engine! - heatpipes would actually run through the falling ballast, superheat it during its descent - water stays liquid under pressure - and upon release at the bottom - would depressurize into steam and automatically rise to the top where it would be cooled back into water to repeat the cycle and the heat exchange power the stirling!...so many ideas so little time!
*been researching these - if you encase them in a vacuum - they can reach up to 3000 degrees centigrade!
Civilisations rise and fall. The Middle East was pretty far ahead of the pack several hundred years ago.
There were great civilizations in the middle east, yes. Since 1000AD, though, there haven't really been any. Regardless, today's Middle East is not a happy place.
Um yea. Planes and car contribute to greenhouse gases. Elevators are
I brought them up because they are mechanical, moving things that utilize stored power and which are very much part of today's world. You say that mechanical, moving things are passe: I say rubbish. You should look more into how these machines store power, because that's a big part of all of them.
For what it's worth, planes and cars do not need to burn fossil fuels. Without those examples, though, there are still plenty of other moving devices that are useful in today's world.
I brought them up because they are mechanical, moving things that utilize stored power and which are very much part of today's world. You say that mechanical, moving things are passe: I say rubbish. You should look more into how these machines store power, because that's a big part of all of them.
For what it's worth, planes and cars do not need to burn fossil fuels. Without those examples, though, there are still plenty of other moving devices that are useful in today's world.
For storing and retrieving power. Yea. Try to stay on topic. We're talking about renewable power generation and storage.
It would be much easier to use solar energy to drive a pumped storage power station.
But this all gets back to my point that the energy generated is negligible... even with sterling engines...
Not to defend Marc too much, but if he were to make this a heat pump -- that is not waste energy on converting the entire mass to steam, but rather use the fact that hot water is also lighter than cold water, the efficiency of this plan would go up immensely.
But this all gets back to my point that the energy generated is negligible... even with sterling engines...
that wont work though, hot water doesn't defy gravity even though it does rise. The hot water would simply move up the return pipe to the equilibrium level of the water in the reservoir tank - The water in that tank cannot be at a higher level of the water draining out of the ballast, else it will fill it!
It has to be converted to steam!
Mark, let's do a quick reality check: to create 1 kg of steam from boiling water, an energy of 2.26 MJ is needed (heat of evaporation). The potential energy of 1kg of mass at a height of 250 m is 2.5 kJ (m*g*h) or about 1 per mille of the invested energy.
It would be much easier to use solar energy to drive a pumped storage power station.
That might be true - but due to the conservation of energy, converting the steam back to water will release the 2.26MJ - hopefully this will occur at the heatblock of the stirling engine, which I reckon to have an efficiency of about 20% according to the carnot formula - which is better or about equal to using a PV cell to generate power - And then we have created a source of potential energy - however small- that can run a generator during the night when sunlight is not available to power the stirling engine.
I brought them up because they are mechanical, moving things that utilize stored power and which are very much part of today's world. You say that mechanical, moving things are passe: I say rubbish. You should look more into how these machines store power, because that's a big part of all of them.
For what it's worth, planes and cars do not need to burn fossil fuels. Without those examples, though, there are still plenty of other moving devices that are useful in today's world.
a cool useful mechanical machine!
http://www.dailytech.com/Hightech+Wi...ticle10936.htm
and for total PC coolness - Im getting one of these for certain
http://www.dailytech.com/MSI+Showcas...ticle10918.htm
That might be true - but due to the conservation of energy, converting the steam back to water will release the 2.26MJ - hopefully this will occur at the heatblock of the stirling engine, which I reckon to have an efficiency of about 20% according to the carnot formula - which is better or about equal to using a PV cell to generate power - And then we have created a source of potential energy - however small- that can run a generator during the night when sunlight is not available to power the stirling engine.
I had thought about it, but frankly I believe the overhead in building a several hundred meter high structure strong enough to hold large Stirling machines - or steam turbines - plus a large water tank is by far greater than the possible energy gain due to gravity. And if you are going big scale, you need a large area for your collectors as well. A quick calculation with optimistic data for the Sahara (2.350 kWh/m^2/a) gives an average of 270 MW solar power for a square of 1km x 1km. Assuming we could convert this solar energy completely to produce steam, our 20% efficient engine could produce about 50 MW of power. The steam produced during one day, after dropping back as water from 250 m, would add an average of 0.25 MW to that.
On the other hand, if you produce really hot steam and forget about gravity, you might be able to get a thermal efficiency of maybe 50 %, or 130 MW.
Pretty nifty.
Did any of you guys look at that PM article? The article shows that you can generate electricity using goethermal water that's only about 165 F.
Pretty nifty.
I did. It proves you can generate from natural sources using natural tricks - phase changes and gravity etc.
When you look over the net, you find a good range of clever systems that really make the most of renewable natural sources, and this has to be the way forward until we master fusion. Like everything, these systems are new ideas in their infancy, and just as the combustion engine has developed from a 0.5HP chugger to todays F1 units over 100 years, if we get on with it, im sure 30 years from now we could produce realistic Gigawatt designs.
I just want to make something I can sit in my backyard - just because I can. Im sure its pretty shit really, but if I got it to work that would be cool - even if it only ever powered my torch.
I looked up the heat of evaporation of some stuff after I read Berlepsch's critique. Seems water, though plentiful in supply and easy to handle is just about the worst you can get!
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fl...eat-d_147.html
I have to stick to what I can make and get hold of easily - I dont have a licence for toxic chemicals and cant make high pressure steam vessels!
You should check the price of copper - I enquired about it for the heat exchangers and solar panel heaters (i want to roll my own - wheres the fun in buying prefab? £6500 per ton (or $12000 for you). Damn crazy!
that wont work though, hot water doesn't defy gravity even though it does rise. The hot water would simply move up the return pipe to the equilibrium level of the water in the reservoir tank - The water in that tank cannot be at a higher level of the water draining out of the ballast, else it will fill it!
It has to be converted to steam!
if it is a closed loop it will allow a continuous flow of water... like in old school radiators...
For storing and retrieving power. Yea. Try to stay on topic. We're talking about renewable power generation and storage.
You, my friend, are a fool.