iPhone SDK may block Firefox, Java, background apps

245

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 82
    k squaredk squared Posts: 608member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by night9hawk View Post


    I think there's a rather large market out there for LimeWire on the iPhone, don't you?



    And where would the files actually download to? That, and I can see battery life drain to nothing while files are uploading/downloading.
  • Reply 22 of 82
    calguycalguy Posts: 80member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thgd View Post


    Apple owns the iPhone. They can establish whatever rules they want.

    They aren't going to throw it wide open so any hacker can either purposely or accidently cripple the device.

    There are plenty of serious programmers who welcome the chance to develop compelling applications for the iPhone and they realize some limitations are necessary, at least for now.

    If you have developed the greatest app in the world but can't do it without a wide open iPhone SDK, that's our loss. We'll look for it running on a competitors device.



    I agree and whoever uses the iPhone would want the safest possible environment so there weren't any crashes or freezes that would take away from the happy user experience.



    I think anyone wanting to make any comments on what will work or what won't should watch the SDK keynote here: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/iphoneroadmap/



    It does explain so much with developers actually creating apps from scratch to show. The apps are designed for iPhone simplicity and easy use, etc. Much will be coming out with v2.0. It was very informative.
  • Reply 23 of 82
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


    I don't know how anyone can defend such ridiculous limitations and consider the device "open". This is definitely not the open platform I was hoping for as a developer.



    What the hell do you actually need that can't be handled on a per session basis? It's a telephone for Gods sake. There wasn't a single application (other than FF) listed in the front story that can't be handled transparently starting and stopping as far as the user of an iPhone will be concerned. The scripting is out, but for good reason. Only a shift in application developer design philosophy need take place. Apple is only telling us this is not supported as a multi-programming device.



    Without a look at the iPhone scheduler code I can't say whether this is low level or a high level limitation, but if the scheduler only allows a single app at a time to run, saving a state to flash and reconstituting at re-launch is the functional equivalent of the OS context switching an app of the cpu and back on again. Only a dev has to manually handle the data flow, not the OS.



    Bottom line message: Dev's need to actually have a point about what the are whining about and know where the platform architectural limitations are, because a background app that isn't on the CPU is just as not running as an app that is "shut down". And that isn't necessarily a political decision, but can be an OS/HW based architectural one. Now quit whining and remember how to put data on a user stack or other appropriate structure. Look at the best way to program for the platform, don't try to be lazy and foist ill-fit desktop PC usage patterns on non-desktop PC hardware. With the flash storage your I/O penalties are orders of magnitude less and you can take full advantage of that whenever or if you ever decide to quit belly-aching. I code. I have the SDK. I haven't run into a show-stopper yet for any of the apps I have considered working with.
  • Reply 24 of 82
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


    I don't know how anyone can defend such ridiculous limitations and consider the device "open". This is definitely not the open platform I was hoping for as a developer.



    Who says its 'open'?

    I have no interest in an 'open' phone.

    I want one that's locked down like a drum but with well vetted, tested, and supported SDK calls to a well controlled API. There will be apps aplenty, and none of them stomping on each other.

    You want an 'open' virus laden cesspool, dive into Windows Mobile.



    I'm thrilled with Apple's approach on this.
  • Reply 25 of 82
    dws-2dws-2 Posts: 233member
    Count me among those who are very happy with Apple's terms. I'm really impressed by Apple's SDK kit and its ease of programming, so I expect a LOT of really good applications that work smoothly. I'm very excited about the imaginative things people will be able to do and have even thought about making some custom programs for myself.



    I don't understand why people think they should just get whatever they want. Most people are not geeks, and prefer things that just work. The rest of us will jailbreak the thing and install whatever we want.
  • Reply 26 of 82
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post


    Now that Apple has made a software development kit available that allows each and everbody to write applications for the device (and make profit if they are any good) - there are no other questions than how to get competing development platforms, freeware browsers that do not work well on mobile devices (not even Android is using Firefox) and potentially harmful or resource eating background apps on the phone?



    Apple, do us all a favour - do not refuse to comment. Tell them - flat - no. Otherwise we will have this whining people who want to capitalise on others intellectual property and R&D for the rest of the year.



    Hello? Did I wake up in another dimension or something? This is FIREFOX we are talking about. Don't get caught up in the hype just because we're all apple fans here. We are not blind followers but fans for a reason. If apple is doing something that might be a bit disturbing then its our duty to let them know.

    Firefox can easily be adapted to run well on mobile devices so please try not to kid yourselves. What I am more worried about is that not allowing others browsers (and other certain applications) on the phone will be very similar to the situation Microsoft found themselves in when they forced users to use internet explorer on windows. Hello? Antitrust....trouble with the U.S. government and any other government they want to sell their stuff too?

    I'm sure it would amuse the hell out of Bill Gates and Microsoft if Steve Jobs and Apple got into similar trouble with their new platform.
  • Reply 27 of 82
    jawportajawporta Posts: 140member
    How many other phones run Java, Firefox and Skype?
  • Reply 28 of 82
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dreil View Post


    I see this as a way for Apple to block apps they don't want running on the iPhone, while permitting those they do.



    This way, flash or java can be stopped, while AIM and others let through, all dependent on when Apple enforces the TOS.



    Everyone wants to cry about "what if". These regulations are to make the iPhone environment safe for non-technical people, not to stifle development.



    All Apple is really saying is they own the platform & have written in the legal right to determine what is installed on the platform. It doesn't mean that you can't find a way to install non-approved apps, just means Apple has the right to take measures to deny support of devices in the face of such actions.



    Come on, don't be stupid. If I make something I plan to support I should have the right to set restrictions on that. My time is money & I don't want to spend it helping a bunch of developers debug their apps on my platform at the expense of the user experience & my own personal time & money.



    If you want 100% unrestricted access to an OS go Linux & quit bothering those of us who want an OS that actually doesn't require I be a programmer to get any level of use out of it.
  • Reply 29 of 82
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,070member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    Hello? Did I wake up in another dimension or something? This is FIREFOX we are talking about. Don't get caught up in the hype just because we're all apple fans here. We are not blind followers but fans for a reason. If apple is doing something that might be a bit disturbing then its our duty to let them know.

    Firefox can easily be adapted to run well on mobile devices so please try not to kid yourselves. What I am more worried about is that not allowing others browsers (and other certain applications) on the phone will be very similar to the situation Microsoft found themselves in when they forced users to use internet explorer on windows. Hello? Antitrust....trouble with the U.S. government and any other government they want to sell their stuff too?

    I'm sure it would amuse the hell out of Bill Gates and Microsoft if Steve Jobs and Apple got into similar trouble with their new platform.



    No, I am in the dimension in which Firefox is already one of the slowest browsers on any platform - and Safari the fastest on the two platforms it covers, Firefox (and the rest of the Mozilla gang) do not even render CSS in form elements correctly - so it does not show me pages as they have been designed. So, I have no need for it - not on OS X, not on iPhone OS and not on Windows. Anyhow - Apple does not disallow browsers in the terms - if they compile Firefox in a way that fulfills the requirements for the iPhone OS (no calls to external applications, etc.), I cannot see how or why Apple would have any objections.



    You do realise that the whole antitrust/monopoly story has something to do with marketshare? Internationally: Windows on the desktop > 90% - iPhone Marketshare < 1%. Bill Gates will have to get pretty old to attend that party.
  • Reply 30 of 82
    msnlymsnly Posts: 378member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MsNly View Post


    Now play nice children



    You children have driven me to quote myself

  • Reply 31 of 82
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post


    You do realise that the whole antitrust/monopoly story has something to do with marketshare? Internationally: Windows on the desktop > 90% - iPhone Marketshare < 1%. Bill Gates will have to get pretty old to attend that party.



    You're absolutely right. At the time of that decision, Microsoft had the overwhelming marketshare in the OS for essentially all personal computing devices and they used that monopoly to extend into other markets wherever possible. For example, they basically took over the market for "accessing the Web." Today the iPhone has nothing like a monopoly in any area, and likely never will. And Apple is certainly in no position to (and has no interest in) using it's control over Mac OS (on Macs and iPhones) to somehow make Safari the dominant browser across platforms.



    Frankly if Safari didn't exist and Apple needed a browser, they might very well have fought to get Firefox on the iPhone. But at this point a second "competing" browser just isn't necessary, for Apple or for iPhone users.



    In any case complaints about a monopoly problem on this issue are a joke.
  • Reply 32 of 82
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,153member
    Unfortunately, most people don't think about how hard it is to engineer something to work as intended. I remember my professor used to tell us "always take little baby steps" and thats what Apple is doing. I personally think that they are the correct track. Releasing a totally open system is not that easy and require a long period of development. Its not like they have the magic stick.



    and please... the iPhone is only 400 MHz single core processor not a dual core!



    I already have problems with my iPhone draining the battery in less than 4 hour due to constantly trying to check the email using wifi without success. I have to turn off wifi and only turn on when I need it. The problem is that our university wifi requires log in using the web browser to be able to connect to the internet. As soon as I am in range, my iPhone auto connect to the wifi hotspot and try to check email but without success because it is not connected to the internet yet. So it keeps trying until I am out of range causing my battery to completely drain in few hours. I don't think you really want this happening to you,
  • Reply 33 of 82
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Well... it's Apple's baby. Third party developers who didn't spend any money to develop or market it don't have any automatic right to put their software on it.
  • Reply 34 of 82
    I take all these passionate discussions a sign that many people don't really want to go back to Windows that still dominates ~90% desktop market, or Google who dominates nearly 60% of online search revenue, but rather move on to try this new iPhone thing. But focusing on the negative before the SDK product and program are even out of Beta I think is just premature.



    It IS YOUR phone once you buy it. You CAN do WHATEVER you want on it. Does not mean Apple should teach you how or make it easy for you.



    You can go buy a new car. You can then hot rod it, soup it up, swap in any auto part you want. The dealership and car maker have no say in it, but they are not obligated to help you or keep warrenty on something outside of their manufacturing design. But it is STILL your car.



    After the rise of MS and Linux, most people treat every OS and S/W as easily separable components from H/W. Nobody remembers when a company packaged its own H/W+S/W like Atari, HP, and Sun used to do. Apple still believes their own S/W scheme is an intricate part of the overall design of the product. Have people read about CISCO and othe network companies plans to put smart network devices that has its own 'brains' or VM to manage OSs and control what goes on what hardware or through what data channel? Which FOSS lobby is protesting that?



    Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of iPhones have already been jailbroken. I expect even more creative store-breakouts for v.2.0. If you want to develop apart from using iPhone's native API, help yourself. Who knows? By this fall maybe anything is possible. A more creative entrepreneur may actually prefer Apple stay strict so he can set up a new business to help customized configuration and alternative phone plans. If there is a compelling case for Java for the enterprise, don't you think Apple will court after it by their recent overtures toward corporate customers? Limitations should make people more creative.



    I don't have a Mac or an iPhone. BTW, between the monster size threads going around on these forum sites centered on the iPhone controversy, my IE7 has crashed. FF2 just freezes repeatedly. Opera can't even render Slashdot pages right. But Safari 3.0.4 on this XP is just flying and the graphics look sharp. I for one appreciate a quality product when I see it.
  • Reply 35 of 82
    hugohugo Posts: 8member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    There wasn't a single application (other than FF) listed in the front story that can't be handled transparently starting and stopping as far as the user of an iPhone will be concerned.



    How about instant messaging apps? A conversation will be a single session, but how would you handle maintaining a user's status (online, busy, etc...) and be able to receive incoming messages once you close the conversation to move to another app?

    It seems to me that some code needs to keep running to watch out for incoming contacts.



    (constant battery draw is a different story... not sure how much impact this would have...)
  • Reply 36 of 82
    peyopeyo Posts: 3member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hugo View Post


    How about instant messaging apps? A conversation will be a single session, but how would you handle maintaining a user's status (online, busy, etc...) and be able to receive incoming messages once you close the conversation to move to another app?

    It seems to me that some code needs to keep running to watch out for incoming contacts.



    Well, maybe it's just me, but I do NOT want people chatting to me if I'm on the phone.



    If I decide some phone call is more important than the ongoing chat, I would politely warn my chat contact and pick up the call. I can even set up an auto-polite-warning to do that if needed.



    At that point the chat app can very well freeze, I don't see what the problem with that is.



    On my computer, when the network link breaks up for some reason, sending a message results in a (pretty obvious) error. But when the link is established again, the conversation can resume without any problem.



    So barring a few technical hickups with an iPhone chat client, which can be hammered out with time, this seems to me a non-issue.
  • Reply 37 of 82
    sapporobabysapporobaby Posts: 1,079member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IQ78 View Post


    It is my understanding that Apple can (and likely will) remotely disable any rogue application. I'm not sure when the "phone home" would be done, but that is my understanding.



    IAMIQ78





    WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where did this "phone home" idea come from? Do you have a link or something like this to support your statement? I may have missed this but you seem to have some info that others don't.
  • Reply 38 of 82
    pmjoepmjoe Posts: 565member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by deanston View Post


    I don't have a Mac or an iPhone. BTW, between the monster size threads going around on these forum sites centered on the iPhone controversy, my IE7 has crashed. FF2 just freezes repeatedly. Opera can't even render Slashdot pages right. But Safari 3.0.4 on this XP is just flying and the graphics look sharp. I for one appreciate a quality product when I see it.



    LOL, Safari has crashed on my Mac at least once a day for last week. And for that matter, it's crashed a couple of times on my iPod touch in the last few weeks as well.
  • Reply 39 of 82
    sapporobabysapporobaby Posts: 1,079member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gmon750 View Post


    How did you escape your parent's basement?! Go back to where you belong! Whiners are not welcomed here!



    The world will pass you by kiddo..



    Ah the Apple zealots appear. Anything and every thing that Apple says and does is a decree from on high, from he who must not be named. Never stare or match his gaze. You are looking upon the very face of Jobs.
  • Reply 40 of 82
    sapporobabysapporobaby Posts: 1,079member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thgd View Post


    Apple owns the iPhone. They can establish whatever rules they want.

    They aren't going to throw it wide open so any hacker can either purposely or accidently cripple the device.

    There are plenty of serious programmers who welcome the chance to develop compelling applications for the iPhone and they realize some limitations are necessary, at least for now.

    If you have developed the greatest app in the world but can't do it without a wide open iPhone SDK, that's our loss. We'll look for it running on a competitors device.



    Actually I own the iPhone if I pay for it. Apple owns the development environment and software. If I want to run whatever I want on it and find a way to install it, Apple has jack to say about it.



    Don't believe the hype.
Sign In or Register to comment.