Take this for what it is worth in 2008. This was the point of view in 2005.
I have summarized an article below from a Business Week publication. I pulled up my summary when I caught this post. Obviously, this is old news since it is based on an article over 2 years old. But, it is an interesting read regardless especially when you notice they think 45 nm will be in 2010. Intel seems to be ahead of the curve from the point of view in 2005. Exciting1 Processor construction will change yet to keep speed increases coming in the way of 3 dimensional stacking.
I was reading my wife's BusinessWeek magazine, June 20, 2005 issue, and ran across an article titled, "More Life for Moore's Law". It was a good read but also included some surprising quotes from IBM. The article is on page 108 may be nice to know.
Article Summary
BuisnessWeek reports that future solutions to keeping speeds of processors increasing in sync with Moore?s law are starting to immerge. Current processes rely on shrinking transistors on chips reducing the time needed for electrons to reach their destination. ?This year and next they?ll go down to 65 nm, followed by 45 nm by 2010, 32 nm by 2013, and 22 nm by 2016? increasing the speed of processors the old fashioned way.
The next step in increasing speeds without shrinking circuit lines would be the utilization of multicore processors, where more than one processor core is coupled together and both fit on the same semiconductor. There is a big push from Intel to encourage software to take advantage of multicore processors. ?Intel has committed 3,000 of its 10,000 software programmers to help accelerate the shift to multicore designs.? Philip Emma, manager of systems technology and microarchitecture at IBM, predicts that personal computers will likely see a peak of 8 core processors.
The next possible solution is to design ?ways to stack circuitry, layer upon layer into multi-story, 3D structures.? This would allow the pathway distance for electrons to be reduced to 10 microns from 20,000 microns allowing current 90 nm processors to perform similar to 32 nm processors scheduled for 2011. There are challenges to be overcome when stacking transistors one on top of the other and this technology could take as long as 2011 to make an appearance.
"We're going to see a lot of evolution happening very fast,? said Philip Emma.
The writer back then was using old information. It's understandable though. There were some breakthroughs that were just being made known in 2005.
The idea of stacking layers of transistors on a chip has been around for at least ten years, likely longer.
It isn't very practical though. The problem is trying to rid the chip of the heat. It's bad enough to have to remove the heat from one layer, but layers further down would be shielded from the cooling. In fact, the heat would be trapped. Silicon is a very good heat insulator. The lower layers would have their heat reflected right back, and would get hot enough to melt.
IBM has been working on a method of making very thin tubes inside the chip itself that would have liquid flowing through them to remove the heat. Whether it will work for a complex part isn't known. Intel has similar ideas that use air.
Let's not forget when talking about how small chip feature sizes can go, we have to start considering chip lifetimes as well.
We're used to a working microchip that is not abused essentially lasting forever, however that's no longer the case. With these small feature sizes, atoms can and do move after manufacture, causing failures. I read an article in the IET (UK equivalent to the IEEE) magazine stating that some 45 nm chips may not even last 1 year before failure. As the feature size goes down, this problem gets worse.
In regards to chip lifetimes, this is the best article I've seen.
I don't buy that. SRAM has been manufactured by Intel for over two years at 45nm. Memory always leads the process change parade because it is regular and therefore easier to verify the process. Those 45nm memories aren't failing en masse or EVERYONE would be aware of it by now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo
SRAM is used for on-die cache, one of the simplest features and first used to demonstrate a new manufacturing process. SDRAM is used for "everyone's" memory and is manufactured at 70nm and moving towards 65nm. Sampling of 65nm memories began only 3 months ago.
I said SRAM. Not SDRAM. I also didn't say it was in everyone's memory. I said if it was failing en masse everyone would be aware of it. Why the frak does every reply to each of my posts today absolutely fail at basic reading comprehension?
SRAM has been shipping in products widely for over two years, especially low power embedded products. Those go bad en masse due to physical ass-hattery and you can be damn sure it would have been all over the press by now and resulted in the last nail placed into the coffin of Moore's Law. But it's all quiet and engineers are still working towards smaller processes. One offhand negative prediction article just isn't going to change reality. We get doomsayers every day in life, the engineers just keep marching on inside the tech box the non-doomsday scientists have provided.
I've been waiting 8 years to replace my old PowerPC G4, and it looks like Nehalem is it! As soon as Apple releases a Mac Pro based on Nehalem, I'm going to get one!
And I thought my five year old PowerBook was quaint.
Everyone who keeps a finger on the pulse knows that that nanotech is the next, big adventure in materials science.
Even so, I say that the Nehalem Mac Pro seems likely to ship just at the right time when I'm interested in splashing.
It is amazing how many people are waiting to upgrade when Nehalem systems are released. I know I will replace my G5 with one of these beasts! I have no doubt that Apple will continue to optimize OSX for muti-core and Intel will continue to optimize their compilers. What new technologies await us with Sandy Bridge?
In order to do this, they need to build a special new kind of factory to do this.
(this is all theoretical, and early design mode)
Actually, there is only one guy at Intel that thinks everything can be manufactured
at such a small scale, says he knows where to get the staff to work the plant.
Not many believe him, but his recent documentary has gotten a lot of publicity.
Guys name is Horton.
Terrible news for you, I'm afraid. There was a really bad storm last night. Word is, Horton lost his people. He's been looking all over, but, well, there's a lotta puddles 'round there. Authorities fear the worst. Sorry 'bout that. We're all crying really, really small tears for the little guys. Your microdonations are welcome.
Terrible news for you, I'm afraid. There was a really bad storm last night. Word is, Horton lost his people. He's been looking all over, but, well, there's a lotta puddles 'round there. Authorities fear the worst. Sorry 'bout that. We're all crying really, really small tears for the little guys. Your microdonations are welcome.
It's amazing how a new movie about an old book brings on the corny jokes.
It's amazing how a new movie about an old book brings on the corny jokes.
Oh, wow. I'm so blasted tired I didn't even get the joke 'till I read this comment.
I gotta tell ya, Dr. Seuss must have had a good operation going on in his basement because he's the second closest person ever to actually writing an acid trip (or the pot equivalent). The first was the guy who wrote Alice in Wonderland.
Now its time to stop fraying the thread.
I am so looking forward to Penryn sticking around for a while. I'm probably gonna need a new laptop by next year for school. I just wish there was an actual way for Apple to introduce their fabled carbon-fiber notebooks by this summer, but it ain't gonna happen. Less weight in a backpack would be appreciated, but a MBA is not an option; I need a full-featured laptop, possibly with a 15" display. I like the small size of 13" notebooks, but I really need more screen real estate. But I don't want to be lugging around another 7 lbs. like that.
Maybe I'll just figure out a way to make my own carbon-fiber case.
Oh, wow. I'm so blasted tired I didn't even get the joke 'till I read this comment.
I gotta tell ya, Dr. Seuss must have had a good operation going on in his basement because he's the second closest person ever to actually writing an acid trip (or the pot equivalent). The first was the guy who wrote Alice in Wonderland.
Now its time to stop fraying the thread.
I was so looking forward to Penryn sticking around for a while. I'm probably gonna need a new laptop by next year for school. I just wish there was an actual way for Apple to introduce their fabled carbon-fiber notebooks by this summer, but it ain't gonna happen. Less weight in a backpack would be appreciated, but a MBA is not an option; I need a full-featured laptop, possibly with a 15" display. I like the small size of 13" notebooks, but I really need more screen real estate. But I don't want to be lugging around another 7 lbs. like that.
Maybe I'll just figure out a way to make my own carbon-fiber case.
Penyrn will "hang around" Through the early part of next year. It will also be faster than the current ones, though not by too much.
Intel will be showing its new 32 nm process around that time as well.
From what I've been told, the situation is going to change below the 45nm process node. The "devices" and connections on these chips are going to be so small, that they are only a few atoms across. It doesn't take much to actually damage the chip, and its not a matter of whether you are running it outside of its rated parameters like the Anandtech article is talking about.
From what I've been told, the situation is going to change below the 45nm process node. The "devices" and connections on these chips are going to be so small, that they are only a few atoms across. It doesn't take much to actually damage the chip, and its not a matter of whether you are running it outside of its rated parameters like the Anandtech article is talking about.
The situation isn't much of a problem at 32 nm. High input impedances will help protect the chips from high inrush voltages and currents, as well as capacitive input failure. As long as they are operating within rated parameters, all should be fine.
Once below that, things become hairier. Literally.
The situation isn't much of a problem at 32 nm. High input impedances will help protect the chips from high inrush voltages and currents, as well as capacitive input failure. As long as they are operating within rated parameters, all should be fine.
Comments
Check out the nano-tech section. You can see where computers are going beyond the silicon age.
Spelled it wrong... long day.
Take this for what it is worth in 2008. This was the point of view in 2005.
I have summarized an article below from a Business Week publication. I pulled up my summary when I caught this post. Obviously, this is old news since it is based on an article over 2 years old. But, it is an interesting read regardless especially when you notice they think 45 nm will be in 2010. Intel seems to be ahead of the curve from the point of view in 2005. Exciting1 Processor construction will change yet to keep speed increases coming in the way of 3 dimensional stacking.
I was reading my wife's BusinessWeek magazine, June 20, 2005 issue, and ran across an article titled, "More Life for Moore's Law". It was a good read but also included some surprising quotes from IBM. The article is on page 108 may be nice to know.
Article Summary
BuisnessWeek reports that future solutions to keeping speeds of processors increasing in sync with Moore?s law are starting to immerge. Current processes rely on shrinking transistors on chips reducing the time needed for electrons to reach their destination. ?This year and next they?ll go down to 65 nm, followed by 45 nm by 2010, 32 nm by 2013, and 22 nm by 2016? increasing the speed of processors the old fashioned way.
The next step in increasing speeds without shrinking circuit lines would be the utilization of multicore processors, where more than one processor core is coupled together and both fit on the same semiconductor. There is a big push from Intel to encourage software to take advantage of multicore processors. ?Intel has committed 3,000 of its 10,000 software programmers to help accelerate the shift to multicore designs.? Philip Emma, manager of systems technology and microarchitecture at IBM, predicts that personal computers will likely see a peak of 8 core processors.
The next possible solution is to design ?ways to stack circuitry, layer upon layer into multi-story, 3D structures.? This would allow the pathway distance for electrons to be reduced to 10 microns from 20,000 microns allowing current 90 nm processors to perform similar to 32 nm processors scheduled for 2011. There are challenges to be overcome when stacking transistors one on top of the other and this technology could take as long as 2011 to make an appearance.
"We're going to see a lot of evolution happening very fast,? said Philip Emma.
The writer back then was using old information. It's understandable though. There were some breakthroughs that were just being made known in 2005.
The idea of stacking layers of transistors on a chip has been around for at least ten years, likely longer.
It isn't very practical though. The problem is trying to rid the chip of the heat. It's bad enough to have to remove the heat from one layer, but layers further down would be shielded from the cooling. In fact, the heat would be trapped. Silicon is a very good heat insulator. The lower layers would have their heat reflected right back, and would get hot enough to melt.
IBM has been working on a method of making very thin tubes inside the chip itself that would have liquid flowing through them to remove the heat. Whether it will work for a complex part isn't known. Intel has similar ideas that use air.
Let's not forget when talking about how small chip feature sizes can go, we have to start considering chip lifetimes as well.
We're used to a working microchip that is not abused essentially lasting forever, however that's no longer the case. With these small feature sizes, atoms can and do move after manufacture, causing failures. I read an article in the IET (UK equivalent to the IEEE) magazine stating that some 45 nm chips may not even last 1 year before failure. As the feature size goes down, this problem gets worse.
In regards to chip lifetimes, this is the best article I've seen.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3251&p=1
Everyone who keeps a finger on the pulse knows that that nanotech is the next, big adventure in materials science.
Even so, I say that the Nehalem Mac Pro seems likely to ship just at the right time when I'm interested in splashing.
I don't buy that. SRAM has been manufactured by Intel for over two years at 45nm. Memory always leads the process change parade because it is regular and therefore easier to verify the process. Those 45nm memories aren't failing en masse or EVERYONE would be aware of it by now.
SRAM is used for on-die cache, one of the simplest features and first used to demonstrate a new manufacturing process. SDRAM is used for "everyone's" memory and is manufactured at 70nm and moving towards 65nm. Sampling of 65nm memories began only 3 months ago.
45nm SDRAM is a way off.
http://www.physorg.com/news113668406.html
I said SRAM. Not SDRAM. I also didn't say it was in everyone's memory. I said if it was failing en masse everyone would be aware of it. Why the frak does every reply to each of my posts today absolutely fail at basic reading comprehension?
SRAM has been shipping in products widely for over two years, especially low power embedded products. Those go bad en masse due to physical ass-hattery and you can be damn sure it would have been all over the press by now and resulted in the last nail placed into the coffin of Moore's Law. But it's all quiet and engineers are still working towards smaller processes. One offhand negative prediction article just isn't going to change reality. We get doomsayers every day in life, the engineers just keep marching on inside the tech box the non-doomsday scientists have provided.
I've been waiting 8 years to replace my old PowerPC G4, and it looks like Nehalem is it! As soon as Apple releases a Mac Pro based on Nehalem, I'm going to get one!
And I thought my five year old PowerBook was quaint.
Nanotubes to the rescue!
Everyone who keeps a finger on the pulse knows that that nanotech is the next, big adventure in materials science.
Even so, I say that the Nehalem Mac Pro seems likely to ship just at the right time when I'm interested in splashing.
It is amazing how many people are waiting to upgrade when Nehalem systems are released. I know I will replace my G5 with one of these beasts! I have no doubt that Apple will continue to optimize OSX for muti-core and Intel will continue to optimize their compilers. What new technologies await us with Sandy Bridge?
What is the theoretical limit in chipmaking (in nm; currently at 45 nm)?
The limit Intel is trying to reach is 0.1 nm!
Yes, under 1 nm.
In order to do this, they need to build a special new kind of factory to do this.
(this is all theoretical, and early design mode)
Actually, there is only one guy at Intel that thinks everything can be manufactured
at such a small scale, says he knows where to get the staff to work the plant.
Not many believe him, but his recent documentary has gotten a lot of publicity.
Guys name is Horton.
The limit Intel is trying to reach is 0.1 nm!
Yes, under 1 nm.
In order to do this, they need to build a special new kind of factory to do this.
(this is all theoretical, and early design mode)
Actually, there is only one guy at Intel that thinks everything can be manufactured
at such a small scale, says he knows where to get the staff to work the plant.
Not many believe him, but his recent documentary has gotten a lot of publicity.
Guys name is Horton.
Terrible news for you, I'm afraid. There was a really bad storm last night. Word is, Horton lost his people. He's been looking all over, but, well, there's a lotta puddles 'round there. Authorities fear the worst. Sorry 'bout that. We're all crying really, really small tears for the little guys. Your microdonations are welcome.
Terrible news for you, I'm afraid. There was a really bad storm last night. Word is, Horton lost his people. He's been looking all over, but, well, there's a lotta puddles 'round there. Authorities fear the worst. Sorry 'bout that. We're all crying really, really small tears for the little guys. Your microdonations are welcome.
It's amazing how a new movie about an old book brings on the corny jokes.
It's amazing how a new movie about an old book brings on the corny jokes.
Oh, wow. I'm so blasted tired I didn't even get the joke 'till I read this comment.
I gotta tell ya, Dr. Seuss must have had a good operation going on in his basement because he's the second closest person ever to actually writing an acid trip (or the pot equivalent). The first was the guy who wrote Alice in Wonderland.
Now its time to stop fraying the thread.
I am so looking forward to Penryn sticking around for a while. I'm probably gonna need a new laptop by next year for school. I just wish there was an actual way for Apple to introduce their fabled carbon-fiber notebooks by this summer, but it ain't gonna happen. Less weight in a backpack would be appreciated, but a MBA is not an option; I need a full-featured laptop, possibly with a 15" display. I like the small size of 13" notebooks, but I really need more screen real estate. But I don't want to be lugging around another 7 lbs. like that.
Maybe I'll just figure out a way to make my own carbon-fiber case.
Oh, wow. I'm so blasted tired I didn't even get the joke 'till I read this comment.
I gotta tell ya, Dr. Seuss must have had a good operation going on in his basement because he's the second closest person ever to actually writing an acid trip (or the pot equivalent). The first was the guy who wrote Alice in Wonderland.
Now its time to stop fraying the thread.
I was so looking forward to Penryn sticking around for a while. I'm probably gonna need a new laptop by next year for school. I just wish there was an actual way for Apple to introduce their fabled carbon-fiber notebooks by this summer, but it ain't gonna happen. Less weight in a backpack would be appreciated, but a MBA is not an option; I need a full-featured laptop, possibly with a 15" display. I like the small size of 13" notebooks, but I really need more screen real estate. But I don't want to be lugging around another 7 lbs. like that.
Maybe I'll just figure out a way to make my own carbon-fiber case.
Penyrn will "hang around" Through the early part of next year. It will also be faster than the current ones, though not by too much.
Intel will be showing its new 32 nm process around that time as well.
More for you to think about.
In regards to chip lifetimes, this is the best article I've seen.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3251&p=1
From what I've been told, the situation is going to change below the 45nm process node. The "devices" and connections on these chips are going to be so small, that they are only a few atoms across. It doesn't take much to actually damage the chip, and its not a matter of whether you are running it outside of its rated parameters like the Anandtech article is talking about.
From what I've been told, the situation is going to change below the 45nm process node. The "devices" and connections on these chips are going to be so small, that they are only a few atoms across. It doesn't take much to actually damage the chip, and its not a matter of whether you are running it outside of its rated parameters like the Anandtech article is talking about.
The situation isn't much of a problem at 32 nm. High input impedances will help protect the chips from high inrush voltages and currents, as well as capacitive input failure. As long as they are operating within rated parameters, all should be fine.
Once below that, things become hairier. Literally.
The situation isn't much of a problem at 32 nm. High input impedances will help protect the chips from high inrush voltages and currents, as well as capacitive input failure. As long as they are operating within rated parameters, all should be fine.
...
- that looks like a good interim core for the Mac Pro/Server
- 6 cores, 16MBytes L3 Cache
- it might turn up as a quick refresh before Nehalem appears.
Actually, I'm surprised no mentioned Dunnington
- that looks like a good interim core for the Mac Pro/Server
- 6 cores, 16MBytes L3 Cache
- it might turn up as a quick refresh before Nehalem appears.
No, Dunnington is a MP processor (7300 series), it cannot be used in the Mac Pro (DP chipset - 5400 series).
...
And what is that extermely unhelpful thing suposed to mean?
Do you actually know something, or are you only adding your own one cent?