You meant the DVD drive. I think we all assumed you meant the DVD Player application software, not the drive itself.
How about some more information? What model drive? What kind of media? Apple's current-issue SuperDrives can burn single-layer DVDs at 16x and dual-layer discs at 8x. But the drive won't hit that speed unless you have media rated for that speed. If you use 2x media (like the kind Apple sold a few years ago), you'll only get a 2x burn, no matter how fast the drive is.
I can tell you that Mac OS isn't the problem here. I have a Plextor 16x drive, and I have burned discs at 16x speed on a 1GHz G4 system, both using Toast and the Finder. (Of course, I'm using Toast version 5. Maybe version 8 is broken - it wouldn't be the first major application with critical bugs.)
You meant the DVD drive. I think we all assumed you meant the DVD Player application software, not the drive itself.
How about some more information? What model drive? What kind of media? Apple's current-issue SuperDrives can burn single-layer DVDs at 16x and dual-layer discs at 8x. But the drive won't hit that speed unless you have media rated for that speed. If you use 2x media (like the kind Apple sold a few years ago), you'll only get a 2x burn, no matter how fast the drive is.
I can tell you that Mac OS isn't the problem here. I have a Plextor 16x drive, and I have burned discs at 16x speed on a 1GHz G4 system, both using Toast and the Finder. (Of course, I'm using Toast version 5. Maybe version 8 is broken - it wouldn't be the first major application with critical bugs.)
Sorry for the confusion
Im talking about the optiarc 7170 that came with the early 8cores this year
its crap, max burn speed = x2
using toast 8 on leopard, trying to burn a 4.3gig dvd took 14 mins and another 14 mins to verify
Oh really? And who would have designed it, a magical person?
They need feedback _from_ the user base in order to _find_ the bugs that need squashing. So it's not possible to release 10.5.3 until now, after the user base has created the agenda.
The problem is, nobody is better than Apple at designing bug-free OS's. Apple is the best OS maker the human race has yet produced.
I just don't get why criticize Apple about being slow or stupid. They are doing the best they can. They are the best in the world at their craft.
If you don't like 10.5.0 or 10.5.1, you had the option of waiting. There is still nothing bad about 10.4.11. New product releases are often not perfect. 10.5.0 was not great but it was about average for a major release, each of which had its own big problems.
Having worked for two operating system companies [NeXT and Apple] there is always a compromise on showstopper levels of of Bugs.
There is extensive bug testing--internally and with select developers--that inevitably runs head on into business and marketing requirements.
Software, by definition, is a work in progress. To think that Apple couldn't have waited until the level of code stability in 10.5.3 was achieved is due to not having testers shows you've never been on the inside.
The biggest driving factor is business to get a product out that covers most concerns.
I'll buy my Family pack OS X 10.5.3 when it becomes officially stamped for retail.
Having worked for two operating system companies [NeXT and Apple] there is always a compromise on showstopper levels of of Bugs.
There is extensive bug testing--internally and with select developers--that inevitably runs head on into business and marketing requirements.
Software, by definition, is a work in progress. To think that Apple couldn't have waited until the level of code stability in 10.5.3 was achieved is due to not having testers shows you've never been on the inside.
The biggest driving factor is business to get a product out that covers most concerns.
Ive known for years that Im an unpaid beta tester!
Having worked for two operating system companies [NeXT and Apple] there is always a compromise on showstopper levels of of Bugs.
mdriftmeyer -- have you noticed a larger or smaller disparity in the compromise between bugs and showstoppers in the last ten years? Just curious, as I have no opinion on it. I found my Apple ][ way back when did pretty well (my first ever computer to write a script on).
Im talking about the optiarc 7170 that came with the early 8cores this year
its crap, max burn speed = x2
using toast 8 on leopard, trying to burn a 4.3gig dvd took 14 mins and another 14 mins to verify
According to the manufacturer the 7170 burns single layer +R media at up to 8x and -R media at up to 18x.
And, BTW, burning a full DVD in 14 minutes is 4.3x, not 2x. (burning a single layer DVD at 1x takes one hour).
Are you sure you were using media certified for the drive's top speed? It seems to me like you were using 4x media (or you forgot to select a faster speed in Toast.)
Having worked for two operating system companies [NeXT and Apple] there is always a compromise on showstopper levels of of Bugs.
There is extensive bug testing--internally and with select developers--that inevitably runs head on into business and marketing requirements.
Software, by definition, is a work in progress. To think that Apple couldn't have waited until the level of code stability in 10.5.3 was achieved is due to not having testers shows you've never been on the inside.
The biggest driving factor is business to get a product out that covers most concerns.
I'll buy my Family pack OS X 10.5.3 when it becomes officially stamped for retail.
Microsoft's tester base is roughly the size of Apple's user base. Naturally, Microsoft can achieve good stability without releasing. Adobe also tends to release mature apps.
I'll buy your theory that Apple could have built 10.5.3 like a ship in a bottle. Would they have had the same pressures / priorities that the market creates, probably not. But those forces are not entirely counterproductive. I question whether the exact same product WOULD be produced, not whether it _could_, which is a theoretical point.
I am not concerned what Apple publicly considers a 1.0 release or doesn't. They are pushing the envelope, no matter what they call it. Time Machine is a mind fu** whose permutations are still being worked out. But I like that they push things conceptually, and have some ability to pull the code through the mud. Maybe not the fastest, but they get there.
According to the manufacturer the 7170 burns single layer +R media at up to 8x and -R media at up to 18x.
And, BTW, burning a full DVD in 14 minutes is 4.3x, not 2x. (burning a single layer DVD at 1x takes one hour).
Are you sure you were using media certified for the drive's top speed? It seems to me like you were using 4x media (or you forgot to select a faster speed in Toast.)
The manufacturers can have whatever fantasy they want about their drives but the web is littered with complaints about this unit. Apple should not be allowed advertise those speeds since the drive is clearly not capable of them.
I use verbatim 16 speed - thanks for asking!!
Toast shows the average speed to be x2 when the burn is done
It occasionally goes up to x3 and down to x1 while burning
its a pity the software doesnt just say what is delaying it - the drive or the media etc
crap drive anyway, false advertising on apple's part, breaking consumer and sales law
Comments
Can you detail HOW DVD Player sucks? I've had no problems with it. Like to hear your experience.
max write speed is x2
Toast 8, 8core 2.8ghz, leopard 10.5.2
it sucks ass
max write speed is x2
Toast 8, 8core 2.8ghz, leopard 10.5.2
it sucks ass
You meant the DVD drive. I think we all assumed you meant the DVD Player application software, not the drive itself.
How about some more information? What model drive? What kind of media? Apple's current-issue SuperDrives can burn single-layer DVDs at 16x and dual-layer discs at 8x. But the drive won't hit that speed unless you have media rated for that speed. If you use 2x media (like the kind Apple sold a few years ago), you'll only get a 2x burn, no matter how fast the drive is.
I can tell you that Mac OS isn't the problem here. I have a Plextor 16x drive, and I have burned discs at 16x speed on a 1GHz G4 system, both using Toast and the Finder. (Of course, I'm using Toast version 5. Maybe version 8 is broken - it wouldn't be the first major application with critical bugs.)
You meant the DVD drive. I think we all assumed you meant the DVD Player application software, not the drive itself.
How about some more information? What model drive? What kind of media? Apple's current-issue SuperDrives can burn single-layer DVDs at 16x and dual-layer discs at 8x. But the drive won't hit that speed unless you have media rated for that speed. If you use 2x media (like the kind Apple sold a few years ago), you'll only get a 2x burn, no matter how fast the drive is.
I can tell you that Mac OS isn't the problem here. I have a Plextor 16x drive, and I have burned discs at 16x speed on a 1GHz G4 system, both using Toast and the Finder. (Of course, I'm using Toast version 5. Maybe version 8 is broken - it wouldn't be the first major application with critical bugs.)
Sorry for the confusion
Im talking about the optiarc 7170 that came with the early 8cores this year
its crap, max burn speed = x2
using toast 8 on leopard, trying to burn a 4.3gig dvd took 14 mins and another 14 mins to verify
Oh really? And who would have designed it, a magical person?
They need feedback _from_ the user base in order to _find_ the bugs that need squashing. So it's not possible to release 10.5.3 until now, after the user base has created the agenda.
The problem is, nobody is better than Apple at designing bug-free OS's. Apple is the best OS maker the human race has yet produced.
I just don't get why criticize Apple about being slow or stupid. They are doing the best they can. They are the best in the world at their craft.
If you don't like 10.5.0 or 10.5.1, you had the option of waiting. There is still nothing bad about 10.4.11. New product releases are often not perfect. 10.5.0 was not great but it was about average for a major release, each of which had its own big problems.
Having worked for two operating system companies [NeXT and Apple] there is always a compromise on showstopper levels of of Bugs.
There is extensive bug testing--internally and with select developers--that inevitably runs head on into business and marketing requirements.
Software, by definition, is a work in progress. To think that Apple couldn't have waited until the level of code stability in 10.5.3 was achieved is due to not having testers shows you've never been on the inside.
The biggest driving factor is business to get a product out that covers most concerns.
I'll buy my Family pack OS X 10.5.3 when it becomes officially stamped for retail.
Having worked for two operating system companies [NeXT and Apple] there is always a compromise on showstopper levels of of Bugs.
There is extensive bug testing--internally and with select developers--that inevitably runs head on into business and marketing requirements.
Software, by definition, is a work in progress. To think that Apple couldn't have waited until the level of code stability in 10.5.3 was achieved is due to not having testers shows you've never been on the inside.
The biggest driving factor is business to get a product out that covers most concerns.
Ive known for years that Im an unpaid beta tester!
Ive known for years that Im an unpaid beta tester!
You just addressed nothing in my commentary.
Apple Engineers know there are bugs they want to squash and Business Executives demand a list of showstoppers.
When showstoppers are covered, a product is shipped.
Meanwhile, the engineers know more exist and squash them with each successive incremental update.
Marketing and Engineering debate over timelines constantly.
Having worked for two operating system companies [NeXT and Apple] there is always a compromise on showstopper levels of of Bugs.
mdriftmeyer -- have you noticed a larger or smaller disparity in the compromise between bugs and showstoppers in the last ten years? Just curious, as I have no opinion on it. I found my Apple ][ way back when did pretty well (my first ever computer to write a script on).
Sorry for the confusion
Im talking about the optiarc 7170 that came with the early 8cores this year
its crap, max burn speed = x2
using toast 8 on leopard, trying to burn a 4.3gig dvd took 14 mins and another 14 mins to verify
According to the manufacturer the 7170 burns single layer +R media at up to 8x and -R media at up to 18x.
And, BTW, burning a full DVD in 14 minutes is 4.3x, not 2x. (burning a single layer DVD at 1x takes one hour).
Are you sure you were using media certified for the drive's top speed? It seems to me like you were using 4x media (or you forgot to select a faster speed in Toast.)
Having worked for two operating system companies [NeXT and Apple] there is always a compromise on showstopper levels of of Bugs.
There is extensive bug testing--internally and with select developers--that inevitably runs head on into business and marketing requirements.
Software, by definition, is a work in progress. To think that Apple couldn't have waited until the level of code stability in 10.5.3 was achieved is due to not having testers shows you've never been on the inside.
The biggest driving factor is business to get a product out that covers most concerns.
I'll buy my Family pack OS X 10.5.3 when it becomes officially stamped for retail.
Microsoft's tester base is roughly the size of Apple's user base. Naturally, Microsoft can achieve good stability without releasing. Adobe also tends to release mature apps.
I'll buy your theory that Apple could have built 10.5.3 like a ship in a bottle. Would they have had the same pressures / priorities that the market creates, probably not. But those forces are not entirely counterproductive. I question whether the exact same product WOULD be produced, not whether it _could_, which is a theoretical point.
I am not concerned what Apple publicly considers a 1.0 release or doesn't. They are pushing the envelope, no matter what they call it. Time Machine is a mind fu** whose permutations are still being worked out. But I like that they push things conceptually, and have some ability to pull the code through the mud. Maybe not the fastest, but they get there.
According to the manufacturer the 7170 burns single layer +R media at up to 8x and -R media at up to 18x.
And, BTW, burning a full DVD in 14 minutes is 4.3x, not 2x. (burning a single layer DVD at 1x takes one hour).
Are you sure you were using media certified for the drive's top speed? It seems to me like you were using 4x media (or you forgot to select a faster speed in Toast.)
The manufacturers can have whatever fantasy they want about their drives but the web is littered with complaints about this unit. Apple should not be allowed advertise those speeds since the drive is clearly not capable of them.
I use verbatim 16 speed - thanks for asking!!
Toast shows the average speed to be x2 when the burn is done
It occasionally goes up to x3 and down to x1 while burning
its a pity the software doesnt just say what is delaying it - the drive or the media etc
crap drive anyway, false advertising on apple's part, breaking consumer and sales law