Blockbuster said to be developing Apple TV rival

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  • Reply 41 of 58
    While I would agree that Tivo is one hell of a well thought out device, and it has not only a huge head start but also a legion of followers, Apple has shown twice that it can come out of seemingly nowhere and stun the competition. Case in point would be Apple's Johnny come lately to the MP3 market where they quickly rewrote the book and took over to become #1. And to show up to the party with a cell phone, 20 years late to the party, and shake up the world dominating players! Good grief. Unheard of.



    Can't count Apple out of any game they decide to play.
  • Reply 42 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ramsey123 View Post


    While I would agree that Tivo is one hell of a well thought out device, and it has not only a huge head start but also a legion of followers, Apple has shown twice that it can come out of seemingly nowhere and stun the competition.



    Interestingly, Apple likes to take it's own stab at a new product area, to make something uniquely useful. They can take the existing technology and general thoughts on how something should be and come at it from a new angle entirely.



    As a counter example, Apple could buy TiVo quite easily... but I wonder if they want to avoid "tying themselves to the past" in some way. That may simply be tying themselves to customer expectations, or tying up their own engineers ideas on how things should be done.



    How would I make a DVR...? It's hard to consider the question without thinking of it as "how would I _improve_ a DVR?", so we think of better TV guides, season passes etc. But look at a DVR as something that asks you which shows you like, and contains a list of shows to playback at any time (which it records at set times over the air) - and the possibilities expand. A new way of doing that would be to never show the user a list of channels or times - simply show a list of "free" shows that the user can mark to watch later. Perhaps list them by genre, or don't list shows that are already marked as wanted or unwanted - just list new shows. This could then mesh very nicely with an AppleTV list of paid-for shows.



    Anyway, getting a bit off topic.
  • Reply 43 of 58
    To Greg's thoughts - Tivo is so far ahead of the "other" DVR's, it's hardly the same machine. In my opinion, Tivo comes close to what you are looking for already. It will sift though 200+ channels, 24/7, like a personal butler, recording shows it thinks you will want to see later.



    Though many complain about the ?Suggestions? that Tivo provides its owners, mostly that?s because they don?t take the time to train it consistently over weeks and months of watching. However, once trained, you can scold your Tivo (with the Thumbs Down Button) for recording ?The Apprentice,? and then months later it would still record an episode of ?The Apprentice? because it sees in the description that it?s a show about the group coming up for an ad for the Lamborghini Murcielago, and from your past viewing habits your Tivo machine knows you enjoy shows about sports cars.



    Tivo is that good. No other DVR can touch that. Period.



    But if Apple could come out with an ad that says:



    ?We can deliver every movie ever made right to your living room - oh, and by the way, all your music and photo collections too - along with free podcasts and YouTube. One wireless device - No monthly charges. AppleTV - the last word in living room entertainment.?



    Bill Gates would hang himself.



    There is room for both Tivo (for TV shows) and Apple TV (for everything else).
  • Reply 44 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ramsey123 View Post


    But if Apple could come out with an ad that says:



    ?We can deliver every movie ever made right to your living room - oh, and by the way, all your music and photo collections too - along with free podcasts and YouTube. One wireless device - No monthly charges. AppleTV - the last word in living room entertainment.?



    There is room for both Tivo (for TV shows) and Apple TV (for everything else).



    As a TiVo owner, I'd have to say that TiVo comes closer to that vision than the AppleTV does at the moment. Isn't Amazon Unbox's movie selection much larger than the iTunes Store's selection? Sure Unbox is SD only but since there aren't that many HD movies on iTunes, that's not much of an advantage. You'd probably have as much luck getting that HD movie recorded off of cable.



    I can already listen to 99% of my music on my TiVo (only locked out of the 1% I purchased from the iTunes Store that I'm slowly replacing). I can tune into internet radio channels for even more music access and could sign up for Rhapsody for still more music content. I can view photos on the TiVo (it's not great at that but it's serviceable). For Series 3 and TiVo HD owners, YouTube is coming in the fall. Sure, there's a small monthly fee of $12.95 per month but that's less than the cost of dinner at a restaurant.



    So to me, AppleTV's "everything else" is pretty small.



    As for the Blockbuster box, I think it will fail badly unless they just give it away maybe with a rental fee.
  • Reply 45 of 58
    Interesting stuff on the TiVo. We don't have it in Australia, and Channel 7 (who will bring us TiVo soon?) are contemplating NOT bringing us the TiVo...



    So on the TiVo, do you ignore TV channels and show times entirely and just look through a list of available programs (as my attempt to "make a different DVR" described).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ramsey123 View Post


    There is room for both Tivo (for TV shows) and Apple TV (for everything else).



    I don't really think that AppleTV is just here to replace DVD rentals, while TiVo is focussed on TV shows.... do you?
  • Reply 46 of 58
    We?re getting way off topic here but it does compare AppleTV to the other products out there.



    TiVo has a ?Now Playing List? which is an ever growing list of shows you forced it to record and shows it thinks you will like. You search out shows by title and description, rather than by scanning channel listings. If you want TiVo to record every talk show or movie that has Keira Knightley in it, just tell TiVo once, and it will make sure you never miss a showing.



    It?s an ingenious device, and very Apple like in its ease of use.



    Most people use it to manually skip commercials too, which is perhaps why Australia TV has dragged their feet in bringing it to you. Your channel 7 would not appreciate you skipping their commercials. But according to this link, TiVo is coming to Australia soon.

    http://www.tivo.com.au/



    There are complications. For now, there are a ton of choices for Americans, Cable, FiOS, Satellite, etc., but the different companies are not playing nice. DirecTV (our biggest satellite provider) originally played nice with TiVo, then refused to let the Series 3 TiVos interface with their satellite delivery system. There is talk of the two linking again sometime in 2008, which would be welcomed news to 16 million DirecTV subscribers. The DirecTV DVR is lame compared to TiVo. As a DirecTV customer, the Series 3 TiVo music/photo/movie rental features that caliminius speaks of are not available to me. Thus AppleTV is my choice.



    You can see the conflict. DirecTV wants to make their own DVR and not pay royalties to TiVo. Both want to rent you movies from them. No one wants to give in to the other. Then there is Comcast Cable - the biggest player in the U.S., who doesn?t like anybody, not even their own subscribers! Ha!



    Unlike TiVo, AppleTV does not depend on any other TV show delivery device to work in your home. That?s the beauty of it. It?s a stand alone content delivery device.



    I have never heard Apple mention anything about adding a recording feature to record TV shows using AppleTV. Steve Jobs spoke only of offering movie rentals and streaming content from your computer to AppleTV. So Apple doesn?t seem to be targeting DVRs at this point. There?s no money in it for Apple to do so. Remember, there is no monthly fee for AppleTV as there is with TiVo.



    Hard to get the latest concrete numbers, but it looks like fewer than 4 million TiVo subscribers and it has been available since 1999. Even though it is hands down the best TV sorting/recording system device available, it hasn?t sold that well.



    Some may remember Microsoft going after TiVo with their lame ?Ultimate TV? box. It was the Zune of DVRs and is all but extinct.



    If TiVo figures out a way to integrate its Series 3 interface unit (along with HD movie rentals) with DirecTV, Cable and FiOS, that would indeed be grim news for AppleTV. But companies don?t get along that well when there is big money at stake.
  • Reply 47 of 58
    I put my name down for the TiVo beta program 6 months ago. Unfortunately 7 didn't pick me I've bought a topfield but I wouldn't dream of describing it as easy to use.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ramsey123 View Post


    I have never heard Apple mention anything about adding a recording feature to record TV shows using AppleTV. Steve Jobs spoke only of offering movie rentals and streaming content from your computer to AppleTV. So Apple doesn?t seem to be targeting DVRs at this point. There?s no money in it for Apple to do so. Remember, there is no monthly fee for AppleTV as there is with TiVo.



    I think it's like Apple and mobile phones. Apple had no choice - mobile phones were starting to play video and music... they were certainly not as good as Apple's iPods but since people were buying the phones anyway, some of those people wouldn't bother with an iPod.



    I expect DVRs like TiVo will increasingly start downloading movies. There's going to be that same overlap, so unless Apple can fulfil the FTA needs of users without needing a DVR (which IS possible, actually) - then I think we'll see Apple movement in this space too.



    Anyway - in an attempt to get back on topic:



    I'd really like to see fewer competitive systems out there. We just had a war of BluRay vs HD-DVD and many people didn't bother getting either... it'd be terrible to have the same thing happen in IPTV.



    Perhaps Adobe will work with companies like Blockbuster to offer their media player for standalone set-top boxes. It'd be nice to see multiple different brands of box offering a standard interface like Adobe's. Adobe just has to make sure it plays incredibly nicely with hardware makers and with various studios and providers.
  • Reply 48 of 58
    murphywebmurphyweb Posts: 295member
    If Blockbusters device has a USB port that allows you to hook up a hard drive and play your own movies as well as a easy to update firmware that allows you to add codec updates then they will be light years ahead of the ATV in a flash.



    This is and always be the ATV's biggest drawback, yes it can be hacked of course and the huge amount of interest in hacking the ATV to play DIVX is proof of the consumers desire for the ATV to support this feature.



    Mine is hacked and works perfectly for me but not everybody is going to want to void the warranty just to get divx support. All blockbuster needs to do to trounce the ATV in sales.



    * And yes before everyone starts we know that that is not what Apple want, their business model is in downloads and sales over the net. But they ignore the fact that people still have a collection of movies they already own and would like them available on the ATV too. Blockbuster are going to have to realize this too. Imagine if Apple first released iTunes and the iPod without the ability to add your own CD collections to it? They would never have sold a single one. That is exactly what they are doing with the ATV.



    I hope that Blockbuster bring this feature to their unit and force Apples hand with this.
  • Reply 49 of 58
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    For the Apple TV to be a real big success it needs a DVD slot (for all your old media), and an optional iTunes TV show subscription model with live news, sports and RSS.



    Give us these features Mr. Jobs and the Apple TV is bound to be a hit - simple as.
  • Reply 50 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post


    I put my name down for the TiVo beta program 6 months ago. Unfortunately 7 didn't pick me I've bought a topfield but I wouldn't dream of describing it as easy to use.



    Really? I find the Topfield very easy to use



    Have you tried any TAPS with it? I hear lots of good things about "MY Stuff" apparently emulating a lot of the Tivo things. Haven't used it myself though, but I know people who would die without it!
  • Reply 51 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    They'll have to do this, or else they might not be around in 10 years.



    10 years? How about 5 years? Blockbuster is in trouble. The next wave of physical video rental options will be DVD rental kiosks. Located in 35,000+ grocery locations in the USA, people looking for first run movies will only have to select a $1.99 movie rental when they are shopping for supper. As the industry has noted, many are less than enthusiastic about embracing the current download technology. Sure the "technogeeks" have Apple TV running in their homes, but those without the money will still rent DVD's from their local rental outlet for the foreseeable future. Blockbuster has said they will be investing in rental kiosks.
  • Reply 52 of 58
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    For a while, I really liked Blockbuster's unlimited Movie Rental plans. Blockbuster was even competitive and innovative for a while. For instance, it upped Netflix by not only offering better pricing but by also allowing customers to trade in shipped movies in stores. I thought this solved the problem of sometimes having to wait for a movie to arrive when you were ready to watch one.



    In my view, Blockbuster, however, goofed by constantly changing the plans around by allowing you to exchange less movies in the store and charging you more for the plans. In the two years I was a customer, the terms of the plans must have changed around five or six times.



    Blockbuster will never be able to deliver a better product then Apple. I, however, I like the DVD by mail plans better then the service offered by Apple. It is just more economical.



    The first thing Blockbuster needs to do is come up with a solution for the high costs it has supporting physical stores.
  • Reply 53 of 58
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Good point, and I agree. You already see these Kiosks in supper markets now. Blockbuster should have invested heavily in those. It's biggest problem is the high cost it has maintaining stores.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grover432 View Post


    10 years? How about 5 years? Blockbuster is in trouble. The next wave of physical video rental options will be DVD rental kiosks. Located in 35,000+ grocery locations in the USA, people looking for first run movies will only have to select a $1.99 movie rental when they are shopping for supper. As the industry has noted, many are less than enthusiastic about embracing the current download technology. Sure the "technogeeks" have Apple TV running in their homes, but those without the money will still rent DVD's from their local rental outlet for the foreseeable future. Blockbuster has said they will be investing in rental kiosks.



  • Reply 54 of 58
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    That is true. However, that is the industries fault, not Apple's.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tri3 View Post


    Still Block Buster right now blows the pants off Apple TV for content. Apple TV is so lacking it is silly.



  • Reply 55 of 58
    hujibhujib Posts: 117member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    The only thing holding me back is the AppleTV does not have an S-Video output and I'm not planning on buying an HDTV in the near future.



    I use Apple TV with a 32" Sony WEGA via the component input. It requires the input to be put into Enhanced 16:9 mode to avoid stretching/distorted image. From what I understand S-VIDEO inputs don't have this mode available, although I'm not 100% sure.
  • Reply 56 of 58
    inkswampinkswamp Posts: 337member
    Blockbuster doesn't seem to understand that to win this, they not only need to match their competition but out-innovate them 10x over, and that's not going to happen. The problem is that Blockbuster has a very bad reputation right now. It never fails to amaze me how many people out there like me have a "Blockbuster story" about being treated like utter dirt by them (and that's not a clerk thing--I took my complaint to the corporate level and got treated very derisively by the people at that level as well.)



    They've ruined their reputation and sullied their brand name to the extent that there are lots and lots of people out there like me who won't do business with them on principle no matter how great their offerings are. The only way they could win people over is by doing something so utterly amazing and innovative that lots of disaffected customers wouldn't be able to resist and that's not happening. They've driven their customers away with horrendously bad service and policies that screw people over. Frankly, I'm surprised they haven't gone out of business yet. Who is still doing business with them?
  • Reply 57 of 58
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,419member
    Bockbuster ...eff off. Seriously



    I still remember how gleefully they charged me late fees. I don't support them ...won't support them and when the stores begin to close I'll just simply smile and realize the chickens have come home to roost.



    Today I have multiple options that aren't Blockbuster. I won't miss them when they're gone.
  • Reply 58 of 58
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hujib View Post


    I use Apple TV with a 32" Sony WEGA via the component input. It requires the input to be put into Enhanced 16:9 mode to avoid stretching/distorted image. From what I understand S-VIDEO inputs don't have this mode available, although I'm not 100% sure.



    Maybe it varied by model and year, but I had a premium model 27" that could display a 16:9 signal without distorting it, and it didn't matter what input was used.
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