You clearly aren't getting the point. The incoming audio signal coming to the earbuds is readjusted to simulate that effect.
I would say the same about you.
Given that the speak is placed in the ear canal a few centimeters from the ear drum and never moves (relative to the ear drum) how does it create a spacial effect to simulate a sound coming from a distant place?
What "adjustment" is being done other than volume? The best you'll get is right left stereo which is not "3D". It's actually only 2Dis.
Given that the speak is placed in the ear canal a few centimeters from the ear drum and never moves (relative to the ear drum) how does it create a spacial effect to simulate a sound coming from a distant place?
What "adjustment" is being done other than volume? The best you'll get is right left stereo which is not "3D". It's actually only 1D.
It's not just a simple volume adjustment. They change various parts of the audio spectrum, like a very high-tech equalizer, though there's other trickery in there too to, digitally simulate the same effect. In higher math terms, I think they apply some sort of convolution to the signal.
You can probably go to the Dolby labs site and listen to examples of Dolby Headphone to try for yourself.
Given that the speak is placed in the ear canal a few centimeters from the ear drum and never moves (relative to the ear drum) how does it create a spacial effect to simulate a sound coming from a distant place?
What "adjustment" is being done other than volume? The best you'll get is right left stereo which is not "3D". It's actually only 2Dis.
Yea that's exactly how I thought it would work. When do you linear combinations of only two point source adjacent to the receiver (ear drum) you get something 2Dish. Fun tricks can be played by adding opposite ear echo to voice but in the end it will be 2Dis and not 3D.
To me all the sounds are "behind" me. Even when I swap my ear buds L/R. The shaking match box is either in my ear or just behind it. The foot falls are dislocated with the shaking match box and don't seem to have any real location other then off to the left or right. So I wouldn't call that 3D.
It would be great for a conference call but beyond 3 speakers I think it would get muddled. If my brain hears it like everyone is behind me then I'd get annoyed. I see no way to get in front of or behind location out of this technology.
Yea that's exactly how I thought it would work. When do you linear combinations of only two point source adjacent to the receiver (ear drum) you get something 2Dish. Fun tricks can be played by adding opposite ear echo to voice but in the end it will be 2Dis and not 3D.
To me all the sounds are "behind" me. Even when I swap my ear buds L/R. The shaking match box is either in my ear or just behind it. The foot falls are dislocated with the shaking match box and don't seem to have any real location other then off to the left or right. So I wouldn't call that 3D.
It would be great for a conference call but beyond 3 speakers I think it would get muddled. If my brain hears it like everyone is behind me then I'd get annoyed. I see no way to get in front of or behind location out of this technology.
I don't know why you don't consider that 3D. The link you posted is completely 3 dimension with my in-ear headphones on. I can easily point out when the matches are being shook in any area around me. My eyes even half expect to see something in front of me I know isn't there. It's quite freaky.
I don't know why you don't consider that 3D. The link you posted is completely 3 dimension with my in-ear headphones on. I can easily point out when the matches are being shook in any area around me. My eyes even half expect to see something in front of me I know isn't there. It's quite freaky.
I agree that it's very good but it's not 3D. To me the sound comes from a 2D plane that's around me. I didn't hear any above or below. The brain can fill in a lot of gaps but the fact that I heard it from behind and you heard it from the front highlight the problem.
but the fact that I heard it from behind and you heard it from the front highlight the problem.
I heard it from behind too. It went in several circles around my head from left to right (or clockwise if you were looking down on me) and then did the left side up and down and then the right side up and down. I have good in-ear speakers so perhaps that is the difference.
I only referenced "in front of me" when referring to my vision as my eyes currently only face forward... but I'm working on that.
Simply a matter of basic etiquette versus trying to assimilate garbled information. A good read and use of Robert's Rules provides for better meetings, and conference calls than this iPhone feature will ever provide.
In other words, you are saying "the feature is useless because nobody I talk to ever talks out of turn and nobody I talk to ever gets into an argument".
Congratulations. You are the only one who lives in this dream world. The rest of us have to deal with normal human beings and a piece of technology that makes it easier to understand them when they're not trying to bend their natures to arbitrary rules is useful.
It's amazing. Any time someone announces a new product or concept, there's always someone like you who comes along and says "it's garbage because I, personally don't need it", and will get violently angry with anyone who disagrees. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that the world has people that are not clones of yourself.
Can't be all that 3D with only two speakers. At best it's 2D.
Humans also only have two ears... but hear in 3D. There are tonal shifts corresponding to angle at which sounds are heard. These tonal shifts are now possible via software. Granted, you're right that Apple will probably only attempt to apply the effect in 2 dimensions, or is that one dimension?
Yes but when you have an ear bud stuck in your ear there is no "above" or "below". Your lobes are out of the equation because the buds are stuck in the ear past the lobe.
I can only assume you've never listened to binaural audio, or you would know better than this.
And by the way, that link you posted is a good example. If you can't figure out exactly where the noise is in 3D space at all times, then you need to have your ears checked. I'm not even kidding. The dimensionality was spectacular, and if you can't perceive it then there's something wrong with your spacial sense.
Humans also only have two ears... but hear in 3D. There are tonal shifts corresponding to angle at which sounds are heard. These tonal shifts are now possible via software. Granted, you're right that Apple will probably only attempt to apply the effect in 2 dimensions, or is that one dimension?
Humans can tilt their head and use parts of the skull to hear too. How often do you hear something and can't tell where it's coming from. ONLY 2 EARS!
I can only assume you've never listened to binaural audio, or you would know better than this.
And by the way, that link you posted is a good example. If you can't figure out exactly where the noise is in 3D space at all times, then you need to have your ears checked. I'm not even kidding. The dimensionality was spectacular, and if you can't perceive it then there's something wrong with your spacial sense.
I assume you haven't had classes in advanced math and linear systems. Otherwise you'd know that two point sources next to two receivers can't produce real 3D sound.
I assume you haven't had classes in advanced math and linear systems. Otherwise you'd know that two point sources next to two receivers can't produce real 3D sound.
You are so misguided I don't even really want to waste my time. By mimicking the aural shadow of a human head and ear, a binaural recording deposited directly into your ear canal (having been RECORDED directly within a simulated ear canal) produces something that is about as close to 'real 3D sound' as you're ever going to get. The recording itself contains all of the modified and distorted frequencies that your head/ears would normally generate, and in using earbuds you are bypassing the physical and replacing it with the virtual.
And as previously stated, if you can't hear it in that recording you linked to, you have a hearing problem. The accuracy of the dimensionality is so eerie that I can pick out exactly where behind, in front of, above, or off to the side the noise is coming from, and several others here have attested to the same thing. Your inability to hear it is not a disproof of the concept.
You are so misguided I don't even really want to waste my time. By mimicking the aural shadow of a human head and ear, a binaural recording deposited directly into your ear canal (having been RECORDED directly within a simulated ear canal) produces something that is about as close to 'real 3D sound' as you're ever going to get. The recording itself contains all of the modified and distorted frequencies that your head/ears would normally generate, and in using earbuds you are bypassing the physical and replacing it with the virtual.
And as previously stated, if you can't hear it in that recording you linked to, you have a hearing problem. The accuracy of the dimensionality is so eerie that I can pick out exactly where behind, in front of, above, or off to the side the noise is coming from, and several others here have attested to the same thing. Your inability to hear it is not a disproof of the concept.
OMG. How exactly does one do that with a teleconference? Three people are talking into a cheap phone mic' and ... some magic occurs ... to create something "having been RECORDED directly within a simulated ear canal" and ....
We're talking about phones here people. Not a recording studio.
OMG. How exactly does one do that with a teleconference? Three people are talking into a cheap phone mic' and ... some magic occurs ... to create something "having been RECORDED directly within a simulated ear canal" and ....
We're talking about phones here people. Not a recording studio.
The effect is simulated with special transforms applied to the incoming signals to simulate how sound bounces off the ear from various places, it's like an audio version of a 3D rendering. It's not really 3D, but we see it that way, even if it's synthetic. This audio treatment has been available for use in products for at least a decade now. And yes, the quality does vary from person to person, and from headphone to headphone. But generally, it does work.
OMG. How exactly does one do that with a teleconference? Three people are talking into a cheap phone mic' and ... some magic occurs ... to create something "having been RECORDED directly within a simulated ear canal" and ....
We're talking about phones here people. Not a recording studio.
I was mostly disputing the fact that you seem to imply that binaural audio is somehow an impossibility, when clearly it's not.
On this conference-calling thing, though I concur with you. It may be a nifty feature, but I don't see it being anything particularly game-changing, and I certainly don't buy that it will produce anything more than a slight delineation between parties.
Comments
You clearly aren't getting the point. The incoming audio signal coming to the earbuds is readjusted to simulate that effect.
I would say the same about you.
Given that the speak is placed in the ear canal a few centimeters from the ear drum and never moves (relative to the ear drum) how does it create a spacial effect to simulate a sound coming from a distant place?
What "adjustment" is being done other than volume? The best you'll get is right left stereo which is not "3D". It's actually only 2Dis.
Given that the speak is placed in the ear canal a few centimeters from the ear drum and never moves (relative to the ear drum) how does it create a spacial effect to simulate a sound coming from a distant place?
What "adjustment" is being done other than volume? The best you'll get is right left stereo which is not "3D". It's actually only 1D.
It's not just a simple volume adjustment. They change various parts of the audio spectrum, like a very high-tech equalizer, though there's other trickery in there too to, digitally simulate the same effect. In higher math terms, I think they apply some sort of convolution to the signal.
You can probably go to the Dolby labs site and listen to examples of Dolby Headphone to try for yourself.
I would say the same about you.
Given that the speak is placed in the ear canal a few centimeters from the ear drum and never moves (relative to the ear drum) how does it create a spacial effect to simulate a sound coming from a distant place?
What "adjustment" is being done other than volume? The best you'll get is right left stereo which is not "3D". It's actually only 2Dis.
? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_audio_effect
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_audio_effect
Yea that's exactly how I thought it would work. When do you linear combinations of only two point source adjacent to the receiver (ear drum) you get something 2Dish. Fun tricks can be played by adding opposite ear echo to voice but in the end it will be 2Dis and not 3D.
Listen to this example.
http://gprime.net/flash.php/soundimmersion
To me all the sounds are "behind" me. Even when I swap my ear buds L/R. The shaking match box is either in my ear or just behind it. The foot falls are dislocated with the shaking match box and don't seem to have any real location other then off to the left or right. So I wouldn't call that 3D.
It would be great for a conference call but beyond 3 speakers I think it would get muddled. If my brain hears it like everyone is behind me then I'd get annoyed. I see no way to get in front of or behind location out of this technology.
Yea that's exactly how I thought it would work. When do you linear combinations of only two point source adjacent to the receiver (ear drum) you get something 2Dish. Fun tricks can be played by adding opposite ear echo to voice but in the end it will be 2Dis and not 3D.
Listen to this example.
http://gprime.net/flash.php/soundimmersion
To me all the sounds are "behind" me. Even when I swap my ear buds L/R. The shaking match box is either in my ear or just behind it. The foot falls are dislocated with the shaking match box and don't seem to have any real location other then off to the left or right. So I wouldn't call that 3D.
It would be great for a conference call but beyond 3 speakers I think it would get muddled. If my brain hears it like everyone is behind me then I'd get annoyed. I see no way to get in front of or behind location out of this technology.
I don't know why you don't consider that 3D. The link you posted is completely 3 dimension with my in-ear headphones on. I can easily point out when the matches are being shook in any area around me. My eyes even half expect to see something in front of me I know isn't there. It's quite freaky.
I don't know why you don't consider that 3D. The link you posted is completely 3 dimension with my in-ear headphones on. I can easily point out when the matches are being shook in any area around me. My eyes even half expect to see something in front of me I know isn't there. It's quite freaky.
I agree that it's very good but it's not 3D. To me the sound comes from a 2D plane that's around me. I didn't hear any above or below. The brain can fill in a lot of gaps but the fact that I heard it from behind and you heard it from the front highlight the problem.
but the fact that I heard it from behind and you heard it from the front highlight the problem.
I heard it from behind too. It went in several circles around my head from left to right (or clockwise if you were looking down on me) and then did the left side up and down and then the right side up and down. I have good in-ear speakers so perhaps that is the difference.
I only referenced "in front of me" when referring to my vision as my eyes currently only face forward... but I'm working on that.
Simply a matter of basic etiquette versus trying to assimilate garbled information. A good read and use of Robert's Rules provides for better meetings, and conference calls than this iPhone feature will ever provide.
In other words, you are saying "the feature is useless because nobody I talk to ever talks out of turn and nobody I talk to ever gets into an argument".
Congratulations. You are the only one who lives in this dream world. The rest of us have to deal with normal human beings and a piece of technology that makes it easier to understand them when they're not trying to bend their natures to arbitrary rules is useful.
It's amazing. Any time someone announces a new product or concept, there's always someone like you who comes along and says "it's garbage because I, personally don't need it", and will get violently angry with anyone who disagrees. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that the world has people that are not clones of yourself.
OmniGraffle?
But why, when scribbling on the back of an envelope is so much quicker?
Or perhaps they have the little known "Back of Fag Packet" stencil set we use to design our networks with...
Can't be all that 3D with only two speakers. At best it's 2D.
Humans also only have two ears... but hear in 3D. There are tonal shifts corresponding to angle at which sounds are heard. These tonal shifts are now possible via software. Granted, you're right that Apple will probably only attempt to apply the effect in 2 dimensions, or is that one dimension?
Yes but when you have an ear bud stuck in your ear there is no "above" or "below". Your lobes are out of the equation because the buds are stuck in the ear past the lobe.
I can only assume you've never listened to binaural audio, or you would know better than this.
And by the way, that link you posted is a good example. If you can't figure out exactly where the noise is in 3D space at all times, then you need to have your ears checked. I'm not even kidding. The dimensionality was spectacular, and if you can't perceive it then there's something wrong with your spacial sense.
Humans also only have two ears... but hear in 3D. There are tonal shifts corresponding to angle at which sounds are heard. These tonal shifts are now possible via software. Granted, you're right that Apple will probably only attempt to apply the effect in 2 dimensions, or is that one dimension?
Humans can tilt their head and use parts of the skull to hear too. How often do you hear something and can't tell where it's coming from. ONLY 2 EARS!
I can only assume you've never listened to binaural audio, or you would know better than this.
And by the way, that link you posted is a good example. If you can't figure out exactly where the noise is in 3D space at all times, then you need to have your ears checked. I'm not even kidding. The dimensionality was spectacular, and if you can't perceive it then there's something wrong with your spacial sense.
I assume you haven't had classes in advanced math and linear systems. Otherwise you'd know that two point sources next to two receivers can't produce real 3D sound.
You seem to be arguing against something but I can't quite figure out what. Is it that you believe binaural sound is a complete sham?
But why, when scribbling on the back of an envelope is so much quicker?
Or perhaps they have the little known "Back of Fag Packet" stencil set we use to design our networks with...
It's like saying a napkin drawing of a part design is faster than drawing it in CAD. It's true, but that's not the point.
Scribbling on a piece of scratch paper is great for brainstorming, but I wouldn't a accept it as a substitute for proper documentation.
I assume you haven't had classes in advanced math and linear systems. Otherwise you'd know that two point sources next to two receivers can't produce real 3D sound.
You are so misguided I don't even really want to waste my time. By mimicking the aural shadow of a human head and ear, a binaural recording deposited directly into your ear canal (having been RECORDED directly within a simulated ear canal) produces something that is about as close to 'real 3D sound' as you're ever going to get. The recording itself contains all of the modified and distorted frequencies that your head/ears would normally generate, and in using earbuds you are bypassing the physical and replacing it with the virtual.
And as previously stated, if you can't hear it in that recording you linked to, you have a hearing problem. The accuracy of the dimensionality is so eerie that I can pick out exactly where behind, in front of, above, or off to the side the noise is coming from, and several others here have attested to the same thing. Your inability to hear it is not a disproof of the concept.
You are so misguided I don't even really want to waste my time. By mimicking the aural shadow of a human head and ear, a binaural recording deposited directly into your ear canal (having been RECORDED directly within a simulated ear canal) produces something that is about as close to 'real 3D sound' as you're ever going to get. The recording itself contains all of the modified and distorted frequencies that your head/ears would normally generate, and in using earbuds you are bypassing the physical and replacing it with the virtual.
And as previously stated, if you can't hear it in that recording you linked to, you have a hearing problem. The accuracy of the dimensionality is so eerie that I can pick out exactly where behind, in front of, above, or off to the side the noise is coming from, and several others here have attested to the same thing. Your inability to hear it is not a disproof of the concept.
OMG. How exactly does one do that with a teleconference? Three people are talking into a cheap phone mic' and ... some magic occurs ... to create something "having been RECORDED directly within a simulated ear canal" and ....
We're talking about phones here people. Not a recording studio.
OMG. How exactly does one do that with a teleconference? Three people are talking into a cheap phone mic' and ... some magic occurs ... to create something "having been RECORDED directly within a simulated ear canal" and ....
We're talking about phones here people. Not a recording studio.
The effect is simulated with special transforms applied to the incoming signals to simulate how sound bounces off the ear from various places, it's like an audio version of a 3D rendering. It's not really 3D, but we see it that way, even if it's synthetic. This audio treatment has been available for use in products for at least a decade now. And yes, the quality does vary from person to person, and from headphone to headphone. But generally, it does work.
OMG. How exactly does one do that with a teleconference? Three people are talking into a cheap phone mic' and ... some magic occurs ... to create something "having been RECORDED directly within a simulated ear canal" and ....
We're talking about phones here people. Not a recording studio.
I was mostly disputing the fact that you seem to imply that binaural audio is somehow an impossibility, when clearly it's not.
On this conference-calling thing, though I concur with you. It may be a nifty feature, but I don't see it being anything particularly game-changing, and I certainly don't buy that it will produce anything more than a slight delineation between parties.